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Ariens Briggs & Stratton won't start.

#1

D

D_H

I need help. I have an Ariens 20 horse 46" riding mower from 2012. It's ran like a champ ever since I bought it new. Now, I started it up, pulled out of the garage and it died while I was driving it out of the garage and off the driveway and will not start back up.

Mower info:
Ariens: A20H46
Product: 93605300
Model: 96046002300
Engine: Briggs and Stratton Intek with XRD 540cc -> 331777-1372-B1

Things I've done since it died.
  • Put a new spark plug in it. [(Calls for Champion# RC12YC - obsolete) compatible NGK - BKR5E. 7938 is what I used.] I also found and bought Briggs & Stratton 5092 PN: 496018S.
  • Changed the oil and filter. (Briggs & Stratton oil PN: 100028, filter calls for B&S 492932 - obsolete, I used B&S PN: 842921.)
  • Checked the fuel solenoid (it is working).
  • Pulled the fuel line off of the carburetor. Fuel is going through the fuel filter and getting to the carburetor.
  • Sprayed a little starter fluid into the carb air inlet. Where the air filter attaches to.
  • Checked for spark. Getting spark to the plug.
  • I don't have a compression tester, but the engine sounds to be getting compression when it turns over. Sounds normal. When I turn the flywheel by hand, I can feel the compression. Hard to turn, then more loose, then hard again, etc.
  • I don't see any frayed wires.


#2

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

will it fire if you spray starting fluid into the intake, behind the airfilter?


#3

D

D_H

  • Sprayed a little starter fluid into the carb air inlet. Where the air filter attaches to. Picture attached.

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#4

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

did it start/fire?


#5

D

D_H

Scrubcadet10 said:
did it start/fire?
Click to expand...
The engine will turn over just fine but not fire. It's almost like there is some type of safety switch disabling it. I just don't know what that could be though.


#6

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

So it won't even fire with starting fluid in the intake... But it has good spark... I'd start with the cheap/simple and put a new plug in it. Or take the old one out and be sure it isn't fouled.


#7

D

D_H

Scrubcadet10 said:
So it won't even fire with starting fluid in the intake... But it has good spark... I'd start with the cheap/simple and put a new plug in it. Or take the old one out and be sure it isn't fouled.
Click to expand...
Correct, it will not fire. Just turns over. Correct, good spark (according to the in-line tester).

Things I've done since it died.
  • Put a new spark plug in it. [(Calls for Champion# RC12YC - obsolete) compatible NGK - BKR5E. 7938 is what I used.] I also found and bought Briggs & Stratton 5092 PN: 496018S.
Still looking for the resolution. Puzzling...


#8

S

slomo

D_H said:
Correct, good spark (according to the in-line tester).
Click to expand...
What type of inline tester is this? One with a simple light inside? If so toss it in the trash.

You should test the coil under LOAD. Gap an old plug to 1/4" or 6mm. Ground it out and check for spark.

Some carbs have a pilot jet on top that you can see from the outside of the carb. If yours has this same carb, the pilot jet is plugged with concrete splatter or what ever all that muck is on the outside of the carb.

Bet it needs the valves checked.


#9

B

bertsmobile1

Funny.
I have 4 spark testers & the only one I use is a red globe in line tester
If it glows red when attached to the end of a spark plug then there is enough spark to ignite the fuel .
The only thing missing from your list of what you have done is check if the spark is arriving at the correct time
ie:- is the timing key in the flywheel intact ?

The usual method of doing a quick diagnosis is to give the engine a short shot of starter fluid ( I like to use carb cleaner ) down the plug hole.
And with a fresh ( or known to be good ) plug inserted give the engine a couple of good pulls.
If it has resistance to the pulls but does not go bang then either one of the valves is stuck open or the spark is happening at the wrong time .


#10

R

Richard Milhous

bertsmobile1 said:
Funny.
I have 4 spark testers & the only one I use is a red globe in line tester
If it glows red when attached to the end of a spark plug then there is enough spark to ignite the fuel .
The only thing missing from your list of what you have done is check if the spark is arriving at the correct time
ie:- is the timing key in the flywheel intact ?

The usual method of doing a quick diagnosis is to give the engine a short shot of starter fluid ( I like to use carb cleaner ) down the plug hole.
And with a fresh ( or known to be good ) plug inserted give the engine a couple of good pulls.
If it has resistance to the pulls but does not go bang then either one of the valves is stuck open or the spark is happening at the wrong time .
Click to expand...

Usually when a flywheel key shears from hitting a rock or whatever the engine stops immediately and you know what you hit, but I once had one that had apparently sheared previously but the flywheel didn't move enough at the time to notice. It later shifted from nothing but heavy grass that couldn't have sheared the key. But usually when an engine stops abruptly, it's lack of spark or fuel or (N/A for this case) a thrown rod or broken timing belt.

I use a timing light for spark detection, it's pretty reliable and lots more fun than just grabbing the plug contact.


#11

D

D_H

slomo said:
What type of inline tester is this? One with a simple light inside? If so toss it in the trash.

You should test the coil under LOAD. Gap an old plug to 1/4" or 6mm. Ground it out and check for spark.

Some carbs have a pilot jet on top that you can see from the outside of the carb. If yours has this same carb, the pilot jet is plugged with concrete splatter or what ever all that muck is on the outside of the carb.

Bet it needs the valves checked.
Click to expand...
Here is the tester I got. https://www.harborfreight.com/in-line-spark-checker-63590.html

I was going to get the Lisle inline tester but it was three times as much locally and twice as much online. I would have had to wait for shipping, so I went down to the local Harbor Freight and picked this one up the other day.

I took the spark plug off again and connected it to the ignition coil. I held onto the spark plug boot while I grounded the end of the spark plug on a screw. I attempted to start the mower and the engine turned over while I did this. I could see spark from the end of the plug over to the nut. Should I have felt anything in my fingers, like a slight shock while I did this? I also saw fuel blowing out of the cylinder through the spark plug hole every time it compressed.

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#12

D

D_H

bertsmobile1 said:
Funny.
I have 4 spark testers & the only one I use is a red globe in line tester
If it glows red when attached to the end of a spark plug then there is enough spark to ignite the fuel .
The only thing missing from your list of what you have done is check if the spark is arriving at the correct time
ie:- is the timing key in the flywheel intact ?

The usual method of doing a quick diagnosis is to give the engine a short shot of starter fluid ( I like to use carb cleaner ) down the plug hole.
And with a fresh ( or known to be good ) plug inserted give the engine a couple of good pulls.
If it has resistance to the pulls but does not go bang then either one of the valves is stuck open or the spark is happening at the wrong time .
Click to expand...
I took the flywheel off to check the keyway. Two overhead pictures looking straight down onto the top of the flywheel. Pictures attached.

I think everything looks okay to me. I would say the keyway look unharmed.

I also sprayed a little carburetor cleaner into the air inlet and attempted to start the mower, with no change to the mower status.

Attachments







#13

D

D_H

slomo said:
What type of inline tester is this? One with a simple light inside? If so toss it in the trash.

You should test the coil under LOAD. Gap an old plug to 1/4" or 6mm. Ground it out and check for spark.

Some carbs have a pilot jet on top that you can see from the outside of the carb. If yours has this same carb, the pilot jet is plugged with concrete splatter or what ever all that muck is on the outside of the carb.

Bet it needs the valves checked.
Click to expand...
Oh, I forgot, I didn't notice any pilot jet on the top of the carburetor.


#14

S

slomo

D_H said:
Here is the tester I got. https://www.harborfreight.com/in-line-spark-checker-63590.html

I was going to get the Lisle inline tester but it was three times as much locally and twice as much online. I would have had to wait for shipping, so I went down to the local Harbor Freight and picked this one up the other day.

I took the spark plug off again and connected it to the ignition coil. I held onto the spark plug boot while I grounded the end of the spark plug on a screw. I attempted to start the mower and the engine turned over while I did this. I could see spark from the end of the plug over to the nut. Should I have felt anything in my fingers, like a slight shock while I did this? I also saw fuel blowing out of the cylinder through the spark plug hole every time it compressed.
Click to expand...
That tester verifies you have spark (no load). But not enough to fire the plug while running (under load).

That test sounds like the spark is leaking out of the insulation. Hook it up and don't touch it. Again the tester you have is not conclusive enough for an engine to run proper. If you have a weak coil, might not be strong enough to fire across the plug gap under compression.

How much fuel was blowing out? Like wow or a small trickle? An excessive amount would be the carb needle and seat hanging open.


#15

D

D_H

In addition to what I've already said:

I feel I should inform that I changed the oil and filter at the beginning of this season, probably around February. The oil I put in at February this year was 5w30 synthetic. The manual says that is okay to use. When I changed it again this year last week, I noticed the oil was pretty black and the spark plug had a little bit of buildup on it. Again, right now the oil and spark plug are brand new. I've taken the spark plug out a few times (testing) and it does not have any grime or build up on it now.​


#16

S

slomo

Richard Milhous said:
I use a timing light for spark detection
Click to expand...
Visibly that will check for spark. But is it enough to fire across the gap under compression? No way of telling with a timing light.

Either gap a plug to 1/4" or 6mm or get a real tester like the one below.



#17

S

slomo

D_H said:
In addition to what I've already said:

I feel I should inform that I changed the oil and filter at the beginning of this season, probably around February. The oil I put in at February this year was 5w30 synthetic. The manual says that is okay to use. When I changed it again this year last week, I noticed the oil was pretty black and the spark plug had a little bit of buildup on it. Again, right now the oil and spark plug are brand new. I've taken the spark plug out a few times (testing) and it does not have any grime or build up on it now.​
Click to expand...
I would stick with the ol' tried and true SAE30 oil. Briggs says 5w-30 will consume more oil and to check the level more often. Don't have to do that with SAE30 oil.


#18

S

slomo

Check the oil dipstick and smell for fuel.


#19

S

slomo

D_H said:
I took the flywheel off to check the keyway. Two overhead pictures looking straight down onto the top of the flywheel. Pictures attached.

I think everything looks okay to me. I would say the keyway look unharmed.

I also sprayed a little carburetor cleaner into the air inlet and attempted to start the mower, with no change to the mower status.
Click to expand...
Key looks okay to me.


#20

D

D_H

How much fuel was blowing out? Like wow or a small trickle? An excessive amount would be the carb needle and seat hanging open.
Click to expand...
It definitely was not 'like wow' I would say. Seemed more like a small trickle I guess. Several drops/small spray amongst a mist of fuel every time the engine had a revolution.


#21

R

Richard Milhous

slomo said:
Visibly that will check for spark. But is it enough to fire across the gap under compression? No way of telling with a timing light.

Either gap a plug to 1/4" or 6mm or get a real tester like the one below.

Click to expand...
An inductive pickup won't trigger consistently on a really weak spark. You're right it doesn't actually prove the spark is strong enough, but it's usually right and easier to use than pulling and ground the plug. At least if you have a 12V battery handy to power it.

...and you can always have current discharge without actual spark, if the plug is bridged or the insulator is cracked.


#22

R

Richard Milhous

Slomo is right about the plug wire insulation. If it's weak in some spot, it might be partially shorting out to adjacent metal but if you move the wire to test the removed plug, it might no longer be adjacent to metal there. It's also possible (but very unlikely unless it's old and abused) that the conductor in the plug wire has a break.

How large was the gap between electrode and nut when you saw spark? If it was 1/4" and you saw a bright spark, that's great. If it was 1/10" and just a flicker, not so great. It's a pain to ground the plug body and I don't know if I'd reuse a plug after gapping it to 1/4" (!) but Slomo's test is a definitive one. With the possible exception of a position-dependent flaw in the plug wire.


#23

D

D_H

slomo said:
Visibly that will check for spark. But is it enough to fire across the gap under compression? No way of telling with a timing light.

Either gap a plug to 1/4" or 6mm or get a real tester like the one below.
Click to expand...
I can't justify the investment of that Oppama PET-4000 or the Echo equivalent. So you're suggesting that I open up a good spark plug to 1/4" or 6mm and try to fire the motor again without holding the spark plug boot. That's difficult as there is not really anywhere to rest or wedge the spark plug and cable on. I'll see what I can do. By widening that spark plug gap will determine if my ignition coil is providing enough giddy-up to the spark plug?
slomo said:
Check the oil dipstick and smell for fuel.
Click to expand...
I checked the oil dipstick and did not smell fuel on it. The oil appears okay to me.
slomo said:
I would stick with the ol' tried and true SAE30 oil. Briggs says 5w-30 will consume more oil and to check the level more often. Don't have to do that with SAE30 oil.
Click to expand...
Yes, I agree. I had a hard time finding the SAE30 at the time and the manual said that this 5w-30 synthetic would work just fine. I did check it though before every mow. A little more than every other time it would need to have some oil added to become within tolerance. It also blackened up quite a bit faster than the SAE30. I think it came factory filled with B&S SAE30 and that's proven to be good oil over the years. That's what I'll be using in the future from now on.


#24

R

Richard Milhous

D_H said:
I can't justify the investment of that Oppama PET-4000 or the Echo equivalent. So you're suggesting that I open up a good spark plug to 1/4" or 6mm and try to fire the motor again without holding the spark plug boot. That's difficult as there is not really anywhere to rest or wedge the spark plug and cable on. I'll see what I can do. By widening that spark plug gap will determine if my ignition coil is providing enough giddy-up to the spark plug?

I checked the oil

Yes, I agree. I had a hard time finding the SAE30 at the time and the manual said that this 5w-30 synthetic would work just fine. I did check it though before every mow. A little more than every other time it would need to have some oil added to become with in tolerance. It also blackened up quite a bit faster than the SAE30. I think it came factory filled with B&S SAE30 and that's proven to be good oil over the years. That's what I'll be using in the future from now on.
dip stick and I can not smell any fuel. The oil appears okay to me.
Click to expand...

One thing you could try is putting the plug in the jaw of a jumper cable and clamping the other end of the cable to whatever metal you can find on the block.

I dunno why SAE 30 is so hard to find now but it's a pain. I've been using 10w30.


#25

D

D_H

Richard Milhous said:
Slomo is right about the plug wire insulation. If it's weak in some spot, it might be partially shorting out to adjacent metal but if you move the wire to test the removed plug, it might no longer be adjacent to metal there. It's also possible (but very unlikely unless it's old and abused) that the conductor in the plug wire has a break.

How large was the gap between electrode and nut when you saw spark? If it was 1/4" and you saw a bright spark, that's great. If it was 1/10" and just a flicker, not so great. It's a pain to ground the plug body and I don't know if I'd reuse a plug after gapping it to 1/4" (!) but Slomo's test is a definitive one. With the possible exception of a position-dependent flaw in the plug wire.
Click to expand...
The plug wire insulation appears fine to me. The only wear/abuse I can see is from me taking the spark plug out several times. The boot now has some small cracks in it. That's it other than some light dirt/dust on it.

I am not sure how large the gap was when I held the boot and tested spark against a screw. I was not aware I needed to be precise. I'll have to go try it again. I bought a few plugs and am willing to sacrifice one to do the 1/4" or 6mm test. If it helps me get to a running mower again, it's a small price to pay.

Are there any thoughts on this whole thing being some type of safety deactivation switch problem? I mean it just died. Just to reiterate, I'm driving it a short distance across the drive (blades not engaged) and it just died. It died just like if I was riding it and then stood up, lifting my butt off the seat without it in park. Now when I try to start it, it acts just like I am trying to start it without the mower in park or am starting it while not sitting on the seat.


#26

R

Richard Milhous

Safety devices work by cutting the ignition (or sometimes starter current) so that ain't it.

You can't reliably judge plug wire insulation visually (unless it has been plumb rotted off by oil). If you don't have a pacemaker you can try grabbing it while the motor cranks.


#27

B

bertsmobile1

Back on planet earth
SO you have confirmed that there is a spark that should be happening at the right time
The engine will not fire with a fuel that is far more volatile than petrol put into the combustion chamber through the plug hole.
So that tells us you have a valve / piston problem.
So next step in diagnosing is to put a pencil down the plug hole and check that there is a piston in there that is moving .
Once you have confirmed that take off the rocker cover & spark plug
rotate the engine at least 2 full rotations while watching the rockers moving
The valves & guides are identical so they should sit at exactly the same height and go in & out the exact same amount
When the piston is in the firing position both vlaves should be closed and there should be some slack between the ends of the rockers & the top of the valve stem.


#28

S

slomo

Richard Milhous said:
One thing you could try is putting the plug in the jaw of a jumper cable and clamping the other end of the cable to whatever metal you can find on the block.

I dunno why SAE 30 is so hard to find now but it's a pain. I've been using 10w30.
Click to expand...
Walmart has it at 10 bucks a gallon. It's also SG rated and full of ZDDP zinc anti-wear gooo.



#29

S

slomo

D_H said:
I can't justify the investment of that Oppama PET-4000 or the Echo equivalent. So you're suggesting that I open up a good spark plug to 1/4" or 6mm and try to fire the motor again without holding the spark plug boot. That's difficult as there is not really anywhere to rest or wedge the spark plug and cable on. I'll see what I can do. By widening that spark plug gap will determine if my ignition coil is providing enough giddy-up to the spark plug?
Click to expand...
The PET-4000 is expensive but the best tool for this purpose.

Runner-up is a cheap spark plug opened to 1/4". Use insulated Channel Lock pliers if you are getting shocked. And if you are getting shocked, I would take some good electrical tape and wrap up your plug wire, all the way to the coil. Or use some butyl rubber tape. Or wear a thick glove and hold the plug to the engine block checking for spark.

Take insulated pliers. Hold the 1/4" gaped plug against the engine block on clean unpainted metal. Crank the engine over looking for spark.

Widening the gap simulates a LOAD on the coil. Same as a running engine. Not just oh I see a small light bulb turn on inline tester job does.


#30

S

slomo

Richard Milhous said:
Safety devices work by cutting the ignition (or sometimes starter current) so that ain't it.

You can't reliably judge plug wire insulation visually (unless it has been plumb rotted off by oil). If you don't have a pacemaker you can try grabbing it while the motor cranks.
Click to expand...
Just a tiny imperfection in the wire insulation can get you nailed. Summertime sweaty hands are no good too LOL.


#31

S

slomo

D_H said:
It definitely was not 'like wow' I would say. Seemed more like a small trickle I guess. Several drops/small spray amongst a mist of fuel every time the engine had a revolution.
Click to expand...
Try pinching off the fuel line while cranking. Wondering if the cylinders are flooding as in carb needle sticking open?? Remove the plugs to clear and dry out the cylinders while cranking.


#32

T

Tom Lynch

You may be overcomplicating a simple problem. (1) Only use gas without ethanol additives (small engines don't like it), (2) find a screw on the bottom of the carburetor to drain what fuel is in the bowl, (3) retighten the screw, and (4) start the mower.


#33

R

Richard Milhous

slomo said:
Walmart has it at 10 bucks a gallon. It's also SG rated and full of ZDDP zinc anti-wear gooo.

Click to expand...
Frozen will hell be before ever anything from walmart I buy.


#34

R

Richard Milhous

Tom Lynch said:
You may be overcomplicating a simple problem. (1) Only use gas without ethanol additives (small engines don't like it), (2) find a screw on the bottom of the carburetor to drain what fuel is in the bowl, (3) retighten the screw, and (4) start the mower.
Click to expand...
Best never to use ethanol gas in anything. Ethanol absorbs water, and the underground gas tanks at stations often have leaks. With straight gas, the water settles to the sump at the bottom and is unlikely to get pumped out. Ethanol diffuses the water all through the underground tank. I have a suspicion this is why so many people report lousy gas mileage with gasahol - the difference in energy content between gasahol and straight gas is only 4%, but add a little water and you've got a problem.


#35

S

SHB

Two hypothesis:
Carburetor isn’t metering fuel. Disconnect the fuel line, drain the carburetor bowl, crank it over and see if it will fire on starter fluid
No compression. Remove spark plug, put thumb over plug hole, crank engine. Should feel strong suction / pressure. If you don’t, stick a pencil / piece of wire down the plug hole and bar the engine over, pencil / wire should move with piston, if it doesn’t think connecting rod / crank. If it does move remove the valve cover and observe the valve movement, may have something stuck (or in my case a stud holding the rocker arm had worked loose, causing the exhaust valve to remain open).


#36

B

biggertv

Tom Lynch said:
You may be overcomplicating a simple problem. (1) Only use gas without ethanol additives (small engines don't like it), (2) find a screw on the bottom of the carburetor to drain what fuel is in the bowl, (3) retighten the screw, and (4) start the mower.
Click to expand...
I predict this is the Solution. Always keep the tank Full. In hot ,Humid weather a near empty tank causes Condensation. Your Gas is Bad. You have Spark and Compression. Remove plug and blow out all bad gas and let it sit with plug out for 15-30 minutes. pour a glurp of gas in carb throat and Start engine.


#37

R

robsfun62

D_H said:
The engine will turn over just fine but not fire. It's almost like there is some type of safety switch disabling it. I just don't know what that could be though.
Click to expand...
If it was a safety switch you would have no spark


#38

R

robsfun62

I think you need to check for a bent push rod on an intake valve, so take a compression test or if you dont have a tester take the valve covers off and check for operating valves. this has to be the problem


#39

C

ccheatha

D_H said:
The engine will turn over just fine but not fire. It's almost like there is some type of safety switch disabling it. I just don't know what that could be though.
Click to expand...
I haven't read through all of the posts in this thread, but you might very well be right about it being a simple switch. I was working on an old MTD mower with a Briggs and Stratton that had an issue with the interlock switch not making contact because the bracket for the blade engagement had worn. As a matter of fact, I just found the old posting I'd put out here a few years ago. It's here: https://www.lawnmowerforum.com/threads/mtd-interlock-switch.49622/page-2

After seeing that it won't even fire after a couple shots of starter fluid, I'm guessing that you're right in that's it's some sort of switch problem. Good luck.


#40

B

biggertv

Bad Gas. The gas in the carb bowl was ok and started the engine, got it just down the drive. When the bad gas from the Tank hit the carb it was Game Over.


#41

R

Richard Milhous

biggertv said:
I predict this is the Solution. Always keep the tank Full. In hot ,Humid weather a near empty tank causes Condensation. Your Gas is Bad. You have Spark and Compression. Remove plug and blow out all bad gas and let it sit with plug out for 15-30 minutes. pour a glurp of gas in carb throat and Start engine.
Click to expand...
Yeah I don't know why The Instructions always say to empty the tank for storage. Always keep it full of stabilized gas over the winter, and this goes triple for two-stroke engines. I normally run every small engine every 2-3 weeks for at least a few minutes, too.


#42

S

SlopeMan2

Sorry to hear you have having problem with the BS. My 50 year old B&S quit, and it was just the spacing between the coil and flywheel. The spark was weak. I found there was nearly no gap. I loosened up the coil, slipped a business card in, to make about a .020" gap, tightened, and bingo - hot spark, and engine running like new. It can sure be a lot of little things. Let us know what you find D H


#43

S

SlopeMan2

SlopeMan2 said:
Sorry to hear you have having problem with the BS. My 50 year old B&S quit, and it was just the spacing between the coil and flywheel. The spark was weak. I found there was nearly no gap. I loosened up the coil, slipped a business card in, to make about a .020" gap, tightened, and bingo - hot spark, and engine running like new. It can sure be a lot of little things. Let us know what you find D H
Click to expand...
I do like Richard, as far as the gas tank goes. I just start all 5 of my engines, ( mowers and MC) every time the temperature approaches 60 degrees during the winter. I let them run a few minutes, and most of the time, I turn the gas valve off and let them run the fuel out of the carb. I have 20 RC 4 cycle model airplane engines, and we do them that way. Some of them are 20 years old. Good luck with the Briggs.


#44

G

grassy

robsfun62 said:
I think you need to check for a bent push rod on an intake valve, so take a compression test or if you dont have a tester take the valve covers off and check for operating valves. this has to be the problem
Click to expand...
This is exactly what happened to my B&S 25HP. Those intake push-rods are designed to fail if anything goes wrong like valves too tight.


#45

R

rutbuster1

Question: When you try to crank the mower and it doesn't crank, is the spark plug wet or dry? You tried starting fluid. If the plug is firing, the engine should do something if nothing but sputter. If the plug isn't getting wet, then the carb is stopped up. But one thing that puzzles me is that you tried the starting fluid, (ether), and it doesn't do anything. If the plug is good and shows fire, the engine should do something.


#46

R

Richard Milhous

SlopeMan2 said:
I do like Richard, as far as the gas tank goes. I just start all 5 of my engines, ( mowers and MC) every time the temperature approaches 60 degrees during the winter. I let them run a few minutes, and most of the time, I turn the gas valve off and let them run the fuel out of the carb. I have 20 RC 4 cycle model airplane engines, and we do them that way. Some of them are 20 years old. Good luck with the Briggs.
Click to expand...
I've had no problem at all with leaving the carb wet, as long as the gas has Stabil in it and the engine is run periodically to keep it wet. Let gas dry out in a two-stroke carb and you're hosed.


#47

R

Richard Milhous

rutbuster1 said:
Question: When you try to crank the mower and it doesn't crank, is the spark plug wet or dry? You tried starting fluid. If the plug is firing, the engine should do something if nothing but sputter. If the plug isn't getting wet, then the carb is stopped up. But one thing that puzzles me is that you tried the starting fluid, (ether), and it doesn't do anything. If the plug is good and shows fire, the engine should do something.
Click to expand...
I've seen coils that would produce a tangible spark but wouldn't fire starting fluid. I think starting fluid is not all created equal. Some of it seems better at wetting the plug than exploding.


#48

mitchstein443

mitchstein443

Bottomline:
remove plug, spray carb cleaner or starting fluid into cylinder through plug hole.
reinstall plug and plug wore.
start engine. If you get nothing, engines spins but does not bang or smoke then there is NO SPARK.
pull the plug, lay it so the side of the bare plug is toching the engine try to start, if no spark is seen then it's an ignition problem, check coil, wire, maybe defective plug.

with the plug removed, crank the engine, feel for air to blow out of the plug hole, if no air blows out then you have valve issue and/or piston is not going up and down.

With the plug removed, put a long pencil or long but thin wood dowl into the spark plug hole so that it is touching the top of the piston. sping the engine b hand and see if the pencil moves up or down, if it doesn't move then there is a crank or connecting rod issue..

The engine is very very basic.. no smoke, no bang try starting fluid (remove the air cleaner first) if it tries to start or bangs then spark is good. however spark could be improperly timed. the timing is done by the magnet on the flywheel, check the "crankshaft Key" makesure it is good. if it sheared then the flywheel will be in the wrong position on the crnk nd will spark the plug but at the wrong time..


#49

D

DaveU

I had a similar problem with my zero turn Z425 John Deere mower. I could hear the fuel solenoid click when I turned on the key, but it often would not start, or, would start and run for a couple of seconds and shut off. After chasing this one for over a week it turned out to be a worn out ignition switch, so the connection to the fuel solenoid was erratic. Changed the ignition switch and voila - problem went away. Hope this might be helpful.


#50

R

Ronni

D_H said:
I need help. I have an Ariens 20 horse 46" riding mower from 2012. It's ran like a champ ever since I bought it new. Now, I started it up, pulled out of the garage and it died while I was driving it out of the garage and off the driveway and will not start back up.

Mower info:
Ariens: A20H46
Product: 93605300
Model: 96046002300
Engine: Briggs and Stratton Intek with XRD 540cc -> 331777-1372-B1

Things I've done since it died.
  • Put a new spark plug in it. [(Calls for Champion# RC12YC - obsolete) compatible NGK - BKR5E. 7938 is what I used.] I also found and bought Briggs & Stratton 5092 PN: 496018S.
  • Changed the oil and filter. (Briggs & Stratton oil PN: 100028, filter calls for B&S 492932 - obsolete, I used B&S PN: 842921.)
  • Checked the fuel solenoid (it is working).
  • Pulled the fuel line off of the carburetor. Fuel is going through the fuel filter and getting to the carburetor.
  • Sprayed a little starter fluid into the carb air inlet. Where the air filter attaches to.
  • Checked for spark. Getting spark to the plug.
  • I don't have a compression tester, but the engine sounds to be getting compression when it turns over. Sounds normal. When I turn the flywheel by hand, I can feel the compression. Hard to turn, then more loose, then hard again, etc.
  • I don't see any frayed wires.
Click to expand...


#51

R

Ronni

Have you tried more "starter fluid" while starting?


#52

R

riceski@gmail.com

Richard Milhous said:
Usually when a flywheel key shears from hitting a rock or whatever the engine stops immediately and you know what you hit, but I once had one that had apparently sheared previously but the flywheel didn't move enough at the time to notice. It later shifted from nothing but heavy grass that couldn't have sheared the key. But usually when an engine stops abruptly, it's lack of spark or fuel or (N/A for this case) a thrown rod or broken timing belt.

I use a timing light for spark detection, it's pretty reliable and lots more fun than just grabbing the plug contact.
Click to expand...
I agree - timing. Spark is there - just not when both valves are closed. Weak coils also - coils are mostly cheap now. REPLACE also think about replacing the keyway on the crank-flywheel


#53

R

Richard Milhous

riceski@gmail.com said:
I agree - timing. Spark is there - just not when both valves are closed. Weak coils also - coils are mostly cheap now. REPLACE also think about replacing the keyway on the crank-flywheel
Click to expand...
The OP (who seems to have given up on this thread) said the flywheel key was good.


#54

D

D_H

bertsmobile1 said:
The engine will not fire with a fuel that is far more volatile than petrol put into the combustion chamber through the plug hole.
So that tells us you have a valve / piston problem.
So next step in diagnosing is to put a pencil down the plug hole and check that there is a piston in there that is moving .
Click to expand...
No, I had not done that yet. I sprayed carburetor cleaner down the air inlet to the carb with no effect.
www.lawnmowerforum.com

Ariens Briggs & Stratton won't start.

I need help. I have an Ariens 20 horse 46" riding mower from 2012. It's ran like a champ ever since I bought it new. Now, I started it up, pulled out of the garage and it died while I was driving it out of the garage and off the driveway and will not start back up. Mower info: Ariens: A20H46...
www.lawnmowerforum.com www.lawnmowerforum.com

I have now taken the spark plug off and sprayed carb cleaner into the spark plug hole, assembled the spark plug back into the engine and attached the spark plug boot. I turned the engine over and the engine tried to start ever so briefly.

When I had the spark plug out, I placed a straw down the spark plug hole and turned the flywheel a few times. the straw moved in and out of the opening accordingly.
slomo said:
Visibly that will check for spark. But is it enough to fire across the gap under compression? No way of telling with a timing light.

Either gap a plug to 1/4" or 6mm or get a real tester like the one below.
Click to expand...
I got a new spark plug and opened the gap up to 1/4". I had to bend the post all the way straight out to do that, with a slight bend over to center. I placed the spark plug in the boot and rested the tip of the spark plug on a frame bolt. I could see spark a few times when the engine turned over, but only a few times. Most of the time the engine turned over, no spark.

Additionally, when the engine turned over, the compression shot fuel out of the spark plug hole about 3 feet. There is a mist, quite a few droplets, and almost, borderline a spray, especially on the first revolution.
slomo said:
Try pinching off the fuel line while cranking. Wondering if the cylinders are flooding as in carb needle sticking open?? Remove the plugs to clear and dry out the cylinders while cranking.
Click to expand...
I did this with no effect.
Richard Milhous said:
Best never to use ethanol gas in anything. Ethanol absorbs water, and the underground gas tanks at stations often have leaks. With straight gas, the water settles to the sump at the bottom and is unlikely to get pumped out. Ethanol diffuses the water all through the underground tank. I have a suspicion this is why so many people report lousy gas mileage with gasahol - the difference in energy content between gasahol and straight gas is only 4%, but add a little water and you've got a problem.
Click to expand...
Got it, nothing likes ethanol, vehicle engines, small engines. It's crap, agreed. The only way I can get pure gas is to travel about 300 miles to a gas station that sells it. Not going to happen. I mowed with it last week and the week before that, etc on the same gas. 87 octane always.
biggertv said:
I predict this is the Solution. Always keep the tank Full. In hot ,Humid weather a near empty tank causes Condensation. Your Gas is Bad. You have Spark and Compression. Remove plug and blow out all bad gas and let it sit with plug out for 15-30 minutes. pour a glurp of gas in carb throat and Start engine.
Click to expand...
The tank has never been below 1/4 tank since I first ran it in 2012, most of the time the lowest it gets is 1/2 tank. I'm in Texas, it's hot all year, except for about two days for winter.
SlopeMan2 said:
Sorry to hear you have having problem with the BS. My 50 year old B&S quit, and it was just the spacing between the coil and flywheel. The spark was weak. I found there was nearly no gap. I loosened up the coil, slipped a business card in, to make about a .020" gap, tightened, and bingo - hot spark, and engine running like new. It can sure be a lot of little things. Let us know what you find D H
Click to expand...
I took off the ignition coil/magneto to clean the fly wheel a little and also the ends of the ignition coil. I placed it back on and gapped it to .011. No change. I've tried to find a replacement ignition coil, but the ones I find appear different. Different design, with a 45 degree spark plug boot. the stock ignition coil has a straight boot and the coil itself looks different.

The OEM ignition coil appears to look like this one below with the exception of the contact connector to the spark plug on the OEM has a straight connector, this one in the picture below has a 90 degree connector.

1628444653597.png

This is what the replacement ignition coil looks like. I looked it up for my engine.
1628444885272.png

If click the link or go over to page one you can kind of see the ignition coil there.
www.lawnmowerforum.com

Ariens Briggs & Stratton won't start.

I need help. I have an Ariens 20 horse 46" riding mower from 2012. It's ran like a champ ever since I bought it new. Now, I started it up, pulled out of the garage and it died while I was driving it out of the garage and off the driveway and will not start back up. Mower info: Ariens: A20H46...
www.lawnmowerforum.com www.lawnmowerforum.com


#55

D

D_H

Ronni said:
Have you tried more "starter fluid" while starting?
Click to expand...
Yes, no effect.
riceski@gmail.com said:
I agree - timing. Spark is there - just not when both valves are closed. Weak coils also - coils are mostly cheap now. REPLACE also think about replacing the keyway on the crank-flywheel
Click to expand...
www.lawnmowerforum.com

Ariens Briggs & Stratton won't start.

What type of inline tester is this? One with a simple light inside? If so toss it in the trash. You should test the coil under LOAD. Gap an old plug to 1/4" or 6mm. Ground it out and check for spark. Some carbs have a pilot jet on top that you can see from the outside of the carb. If yours has...
www.lawnmowerforum.com www.lawnmowerforum.com


#56

D

D_H

Don't highjack my thread and turn it into an ethanol, stabil, winterizing practices discussion. There isn't any non ethanol fuel anywhere around me, if there was I'd be using it in everything I have that runs. I'm in Texas, it's hot all of the time except for about 2 days in winter. The mower sits for about 2 1/2, 3 months when the grass is not growing in the winter. The gas tank is always at least 1/2 full.

I want to provide this for what it's worth. I have never changed the oil or filter on the mower until this year 2021 in February at the beginning of this mowing season, remember I bought it new in 2012. I have checked the oil over the years periodically before I would mow. The oil was still amber color and at the correct level when I changed it finally a few months ago.
bertsmobile1 said:
So next step in diagnosing is to put a pencil down the plug hole and check that there is a piston in there that is moving .
Once you have confirmed that take off the rocker cover & spark plug
rotate the engine at least 2 full rotations while watching the rockers moving
The valves & guides are identical so they should sit at exactly the same height and go in & out the exact same amount
When the piston is in the firing position both vlaves should be closed and there should be some slack between the ends of the rockers & the top of the valve stem.
Click to expand...
When I put a straw into the spark plug hole and rotated the engine to check for movement, I kept slight pressure on the straw while turning the flywheel so it would stay pressed up against the piston while it moved. The straw slid across the top of the piston a few times as it would rotate. I could feel it do that with my hand. Then when I pulled the straw out, I noticed there was some black sludge on the tip of the straw. Oil build up I guess.

Just to review, I mowed with it for a long time on the same oil and filter, I finally decided to change the oil, oil filter, spark plug this year. I could not find the B&S SAE30 at the time but I did find 5w30 synthetic, the manual said that would be just fine, so that is what I used. I've been mowing with it over the summer this year just fine up until a week ago. I have checked the oil level every time I mowed this year. I have noticed that the oil is being consumed almost every time I mow. The level drops from each mow, just a little. The oil is also black now.
D_H said:
Things I've done since it died.
  • Put a new spark plug in it. [(Calls for Champion# RC12YC - obsolete) compatible NGK - BKR5E. 7938 is what I used.] I also found and bought Briggs & Stratton 5092 PN: 496018S.
  • Changed the oil and filter. (Briggs & Stratton oil PN: 100028, filter calls for B&S 492932 - obsolete, I used B&S PN: 842921.)
Click to expand...

rutbuster1 said:
Question: When you try to crank the mower and it doesn't crank, is the spark plug wet or dry? You tried starting fluid. If the plug is firing, the engine should do something if nothing but sputter. If the plug isn't getting wet, then the carb is stopped up. But one thing that puzzles me is that you tried the starting fluid, (ether), and it doesn't do anything. If the plug is good and shows fire, the engine should do something.
Click to expand...
When I remove the spark plug, it has some fuel on it. It is beading around the conductor and I also see it in the threads. I can smell the gas on the spark plug.

I appreciate all of the helpful input!!!! You guys are helping me and anyone else that might follow.

After the information I've provided:
  • Are you guys thinking that I have a carburetor issue?
  • Still think my ignition coil is bad?
  • Based on what I said, do you feel I have good compression?
  • What are your thoughts on the oil use, buildup inside the piston? Sounds serious.?
  • Any thoughts on the positive crankcase ventilation (PCV valve) AKA crankcase valve being clogged? I have not had any performance issues that I can tell of.


#57

B

bertsmobile1

If the engine actually goes bang with spray down the plug hole & not with spray down the carb that suggests the inlet valve is not opening.
So take the rocker cover off & check the valve lash
rotate the engine by hand, plug removed.
Both valves are identical and positioned identically in the head so should move the same amount and sit at the same heights fully in & fully out .


#58

H

hlw49

Do not ever use starting fluid in a small engine had a guy burst a head using it. Buy the cheap Gum Out carb cleaner it will not hurt the engine. I drive them in the shop using it. In line test light spark testers will not always give you a true spark reading it takes very little voltage to light them. Use the gap type to test the spark it simulates the spark under compression. As per Briggs, Kawasaki and Kohler.


#59

C

ccheatha

hlw49 said:
Do not ever use starting fluid in a small engine had a guy burst a head using it. Buy the cheap Gum Out carb cleaner it will not hurt the engine. I drive them in the shop using it. In line test light spark testers will not always give you a true spark reading it takes very little voltage to light them. Use the gap type to test the spark it simulates the spark under compression. As per Briggs, Kawasaki and Kohler.
Click to expand...
I hear people say that a lot. I've used starter fluid on many engines and never had a problem. For me, it's a last resort after trying any number of other things. If the engine will not start without it, that's an indication that something else is wrong anyway, I suppose. For me, it's a quick test to see if the engine will actually fire - even if it dies shortly after. If it fires once, that's all I have to know and then I can just figure out why gas isn't making its way in. The biggest problem is that a lot of people don't understand that it should be used in moderation; give it a quick squirt and try to start it - don't spray half a freakin' can down the hole.


#60

S

snl

Have you verified that you don't have water in the gas? I had a Honda mower that always ran great. It was almost out of gas when I put it away and refilled it with new gas when I went to use it again the next week. It cranked up and ran good for about 30 seconds and then died. It wouldn't start again till I drained the carburetor and tank. After letting the gas settle I could see that the new gas was full of water.


#61

S

slomo

Let's start over. We are now 7 pages into this hopefully minor deal.

Engine is from 2012 - no oil changes and uses E-10 - facts

Air, fuel, spark and compression

What I would do.

1.CLEAN that filthy engine, remove metal engine shroud. Make it like you just bought it. Degreasers, power washers, scrubcadet10 brushes and more soap. Remove all the grit as you will be opening the engine.
2.Perform valve adjustment - never heard if this was ever done. Follow Bert's advice.
3.Remove small black kill wire off coil/s. Engine should run till tank is dry, assuming she is a runner with no engine damage. Check for spark now if engine doesn't run. Should spark every time.
4.Your carb has a solenoid on the bottom. I would snip the plunger off, reinstall and use a fuel shutoff valve 30 seconds prior to killing engine.
5.Clean AND rebuild carburetor with OEM Briggs parts. Clean again if it doesn't run proper. Talking inside the carb.
6.Remove and clean fuel tank. Blow out both ways with compressed air. Get all the grass and grit out.
7.Install new fuel lines, filter and shutoff valve inline to carb.
8.Verify your engine has good fuel flow AT carb. Drain into a glass jar. Your engine has a fuel pump.
9.Crack gas cap and check for fuel flow at carb if none previously. Sounds like you do as fuel gets into the cylinder/s.

After she is running

1.Change that feminine oil. Put SAE30 oil in ONLY. As you found 5w-30 full syn consumes oil on every mow.
2.Adjust valves yearly if you want a good running engine.
3.Clean the bock and cooling fins YEARLY. This is in your engine manual. Neglect this and you are looking at engine damage.


#62

S

slomo

You need to do several oil changes because you've never changed the oil since 2012. Eventually is will be clean again I hope. Assuming you didn't burn up something internally. You live in hot Texas......


#63

D

D_H

slomo said:
Let's start over. We are now 7 pages into this hopefully minor deal.

Engine is from 2012 - no oil changes and uses E-10 - facts

Air, fuel, spark and compression

What I would do.

1.CLEAN that filthy engine, remove metal engine shroud. Make it like you just bought it. Degreasers, power washers, scrubcadet10 brushes and more soap. Remove all the grit as you will be opening the engine.
2.Perform valve adjustment - never heard if this was ever done. Follow Bert's advice.
Click to expand...
I was trying to hold off on opening up the engine until it seemed to be a last resort. Just FYI.
slomo said:
3.Remove small black kill wire off coil/s. Engine should run till tank is dry, assuming she is a runner with no engine damage. Check for spark now if engine doesn't run. Should spark every time.
Click to expand...
Can you dive into this for me. Are you talking about me doing this after the mower is actually running? I'm a little fuzzy on this, so explain it a little more for me please.
slomo said:
8.Verify your engine has good fuel flow AT carb. Drain into a glass jar. Your engine has a fuel pump.
Click to expand...
What do you mean by good flow at the carb and drain into a glass jar? Are you talking about taking the fuel lines off at the carb and drain the fuel through the filter and into a container? Explain that.

Right now I can take the fuel line off at the carb and fuel will drain out of the end of the fuel line, small stream coming out of fuel line.
slomo said:
After she is running

1.Change that feminine oil. Put SAE30 oil in ONLY. As you found 5w-30 full syn consumes oil on every mow.
2.Adjust valves yearly if you want a good running engine.
3.Clean the bock and cooling fins YEARLY. This is in your engine manual. Neglect this and you are looking at engine damage.
Click to expand...
The fins are clean, no debris, not even a blade of grass. At most they only ever get a few blades of grass in there which I can easily blow out. The bottom of the mower gets grass clipping buildup every couple of months which I regularly clean out. The mower is dirty now because I ran through a wet ditch a few times along with some dry areas where no grass grows. So wet grass clippings, dry dirt after that is why the mower looks so horrible.

What do you mean by a valve adjustment? I'm not a mechanic so I don't know how to do a valve adjustment. I could research it if no one wants to tell me.

slomo said:
Try pinching off the fuel line while cranking. Wondering if the cylinders are flooding as in carb needle sticking open?? Remove the plugs to clear and dry out the cylinders while cranking.
Click to expand...
I forgot to say that when I turn the ignition key to test that fuel solenoid, I can hear a very positive click from the bottom of the carburetor, each time I turn the key. Turn key on, click, turn off key, click, over and over, etc.
----------
I'll go clean the mower, go get some gasket sealer, take off the valve cover and look for movement on the valves. One guy said they should both move in unison and seat nicely during operation. If they are not working properly, then I should further take apart and check for bent or broken rods and repair. Correct, am I missing anything here?

If both valves appear to me to be operating correctly. Then I'll get a carburetor rebuild kit from Briggs and Stratton, if I can find that, and then take the carb apart to clean and replace gaskets then reassemble.

I'll keep you posted.

Anyone update with any other pertinent information.


#64

beg

beg

Richard Milhous said:
Usually when a flywheel key shears from hitting a rock or whatever the engine stops immediately and you know what you hit, but I once had one that had apparently sheared previously but the flywheel didn't move enough at the time to notice. It later shifted from nothing but heavy grass that couldn't have sheared the key. But usually when an engine stops abruptly, it's lack of spark or fuel or (N/A for this case) a thrown rod or broken timing belt.

I use a timing light for spark detection, it's pretty reliable and lots more fun than just grabbing the plug contact.
Click to expand...
what I have come across when this happens is the auto float shutoff on the bottom of the carb replace 2 of them on my neighbors craftsman B&S IC 16.5 hp


#65

D

D_H

D_H said:
I'll go clean the mower, go get some gasket sealer, take off the valve cover and look for movement on the valves. One guy said they should both move in unison and seat nicely during operation. If they are not working properly, then I should further take apart and check for bent or broken rods and repair. Correct, am I missing anything here?
Click to expand...
I have cleaned the engine compartment. Soap and water, brushes, degreaser, soap water, brushes, rinse, compressor blow dry.
​
Picture attached: Take a look at the fuel filter. I noticed the fuel level increased. Normally it is not that high inside the fuel filter. Normally the fuel level is around 1/2 or 1/4 full in the fuel filter. Thoughts on that?​
​
D_H said:
If both valves appear to me to be operating correctly. Then I'll get a carburetor rebuild kit from Briggs and Stratton, if I can find that, and then take the carb apart to clean and replace gaskets then reassemble.
Click to expand...
I took the valve cover off the engine. Visual inspection; looks like nothing is broken. Everything looks like it has a light coat of oil.

Question: Valve adjustment is mentioned. I've never done a valve adjustment. What is that like? Should I just YouTube that and hope I get someone who knows what they are doing?

  • I turned the flywheel with the valve cover off.
  • First the bottom valve articulated in and then out.
  • Next the top valve articulated in and then out.
  • Now both valves are extended out, I guess in the closed position; and the flywheel becomes hard to turn. Continuing to turn the flywheel, I hear an air release type sound, like a vent exhausting suddenly, then the flywheel becomes easy to turn and the bottom valve begins to operate.
  • The process repeats.

Yesterday evening I took the fuel line off of the carburetor and sprayed a little carb cleaner into the inlet. Most of the cleaner came right back out of the inlet it seemed. I repeated this a few times. I connected the fuel line back up.

Start up from that = no change.​

Any further thoughts on the ignition coil being bad based on what I've said?

Attachments





#66

S

slomo

Ignition - there's a small black wire under the coil. Should have a connector on it. REMOVE IT. Crank the engine and see if it fires. If the coil and coil gap are good, should fire and run till the tank is dry.

Engine looks cleaner. Thumbs up on that. Hope you didn't get water in that swooping elbow that goes to the carb.

Fuel tank looks internally clean from what I could tell. You said you removed the hose AT the carb and have good gas flow.

Work on the spark confirmation in the first paragraph above in this reply to you. Let's verify you have spark or not.


#67

S

slomo

D_H said:
Picture attached: Take a look at the fuel filter. I noticed the fuel level increased. Normally it is not that high inside the fuel filter. Normally the fuel level is around 1/2 or 1/4 full in the fuel filter. Thoughts on that?
Click to expand...
normal


#68

D

D_H

slomo said:
Ignition - there's a small black wire under the coil. Should have a connector on it. REMOVE IT. Crank the engine and see if it fires. If the coil and coil gap are good, should fire and run till the tank is dry.

Work on the spark confirmation in the first paragraph above in this reply to you. Let's verify you have spark or not.
Click to expand...
I remember you writing this earlier, I was unsure of when in the, getting the mower back to working condition, you were recommending me to do this.

What are we trying to determine by unplugging the wire? What does the black wire do?
Why should I run (if it starts) the mower until the tank is dry? The tank is almost full. Can you dive into these a little bit.

I'm unsure if you are telling me that I need to run a full tank of gas through the motor until the tank is dry and the engine shuts off or if you are just saying that the engine should run like a stripped ape or run like a champ or a sewing machine. If it does run by unplugging that wire, what does that mean? Coil is bad?​

No, water didn't get into the air inlet to the carb. I was very careful with the water and I only removed the filter for illustration. I did a ChrisFix style Super Clean but with less brushes, and microfiber towels.


#69

S

slomo

That small black wire under the coil is the ignition kill wire. It grounds out the coil and stops the spark plug from firing killing the engine.

If you remove the kill wire, the engine should run, IF the carb is working proper that is.

Removing the kill wire tells you the coil is working or not. You should have spark every time your pull the rope AT the spark plug.


#70

D

D_H

slomo said:
That small black wire under the coil is the ignition kill wire. It grounds out the coil and stops the spark plug from firing killing the engine.

If you remove the kill wire, the engine should run, IF the carb is working proper that is.

Removing the kill wire tells you the coil is working or not. You should have spark every time your pull the rope AT the spark plug.
Click to expand...
D_H said:
I have a riding mower.

Mower info:
Ariens: A20H46
Product: 93605300
Model: 96046002300
Engine: Briggs and Stratton Intek with XRD 540cc -> 331777-1372-B1

Things I've done since it died.
  • Put a new spark plug in it. [(Calls for Champion# RC12YC - obsolete) compatible NGK - BKR5E. 7938 is what I used.] I also found and bought Briggs & Stratton 5092 PN: 496018S.
  • Checked for spark. Getting spark to the plug.
Click to expand...
I have pulled the (new) spark plug out and rested it on a frame screw while the plug is plugged into the spark plug boot. The spark plug sparked every time. I gapped a different (new) plug to 1/4" and did the same test. That plug sparked a few times only, most of the time nothing.


#71

D

D_H

I need help. I have an Ariens 20 horse 46" riding mower from 2012. It's ran like a champ ever since I bought it new. Now, I started it up, pulled out of the garage and it died while I was driving it out of the garage and off the driveway and will not start back up.

Mower info:
Ariens: A20H46
Product: 93605300
Model: 96046002300
Engine: Briggs and Stratton Intek with XRD 540cc -> 331777-1372-B1

I have never done an oil change, fuel filter change, oil filter change on the mower. Over the time of ownership, I have periodically cleaned the mower; blown it off with compressed air, washed the outside of the mower, removed the deck several times, kept blades sharp. I have never washed the engine, just blown it off with air. I decided to give the mower a little needed (I thought) TLC and replace the spark plug, oil, oil filter, and fuel filter in February of 2021. At the time I could not find SAE30. The manual said that 5w30 synthetic would be just fine. I used that. When I changed the oil, I noticed the old oil was still amber color and still at the correct tolerance level. After I changed the oil, I then checked the oil every time I mowed. I noticed the oil was getting used a little about every other time I would mow. I also noticed that the oil was turning brown, then black. I would add 5w30 to bring the oil back into tolerance.

The gas tank has always been at least 1/4 full. There were a few times where I would mow my yard and the neighbors yard and I knew I would use all of the fuel so I would stop and check the level. When I got to a 1/4 tank, I would re-fuel. Otherwise the mower is always no less than 1/2 full. I always fill full when I mow.

The mower sits for about 2 1/2 to 3 months during the winter when the grass does not grow. I'm in Texas, so it's only cold here for about 2 days out of the year. I do not add stabil into the gas tank.

The mower ran perfect for the last 8 years until it died.

Things I've done since it died.
  • Put a new spark plug in it. [(Calls for Champion# RC12YC - obsolete) compatible NGK - BKR5E. 7938 is what I used.] I also found and bought Briggs & Stratton 5092 PN: 496018S.
  • Changed the oil and filter. (Briggs & Stratton oil PN: 100028, filter calls for B&S 492932 - obsolete, I used B&S PN: 842921.)
  • Checked the fuel solenoid (it is working). I hear a very positive click from the bottom of the carburetor bowl when it opens and closes from an ignition key turn.
  • Pulled the fuel line off of the carburetor. Fuel is going through the fuel filter and getting to the carburetor. There is a small stream of fuel coming from the end of the fuel line.
  • Sprayed a little starter fluid (used Berryman b12 carb cleaner) into the carb air inlet. Where the air filter attaches to. Sprayed again while trying to start the mower. No change.
  • Checked for spark. Getting spark to the plug. According to an inline tester. Then I removed the spark plug, inserted it into the spark plug boot, rested the tip of the spark plug on a frame screw and tried to start the mower. Spark every time to the spark plug. I got another new spark plug (same as the one mentioned) and gapped it to 1/4". The spark plug post was sticking straight out with a slight bend over to center. I placed the spark plug into the spark plug boot and rested the tip on a frame screw. I turned the engine over. The plug sparked a few times, most of the time no spark.
  • I don't have a compression tester, but the engine sounds to be getting compression when it turns over. Sounds normal. When I turn the flywheel by hand, I can feel the compression. Hard to turn, then more loose, then hard again, etc. While the spark plug was out and I attempted to start the engine, fuel shot out of the spark plug hole about 3'. A lot of droplets, good spray, mist with every revolution.
  • With the spark plug out, I put a straw into the spark plug hole to see if the piston is rotating. It is. The straw slid across the top of the piston a little while I was holding it against it. When I pulled the straw out, I noticed a little black oil build up on the tip of the straw.
  • I don't see any frayed wires.
  • I have removed the ignition coil and lightly sanded the ends of the coil. I also lightly sanded the flywheel. I gapped the ignition coil to .011" - no change.
  • I have removed the fuel line at the carb, sprayed carb cleaner into the carb through the opening (most of it came right back out at me), let it sit overnight. Tried to start the next day, - no change.
  • I pulled the cooling fan off the top of the motor to check the keyway. No damage. I did not hit anything.
  • I cleaned the engine.
  • I have opened the valve cover to watch the valves operate. Everything had a slight coat of amber oil. As I turned the flywheel by hand, the bottom valve articulated in and then back out. Next the top valve did the same maneuver. Both valves are closed, the flywheel became resistant as the sound of air releasing would emanate from inside the engine, like a valve being released. Flywheel would become easy to turn and the valves would repeat the process.


#72

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

did you ever check the flywheel key?


#73

R

Richard Milhous

D_H said:
I have pulled the (new) spark plug out and rested it on a frame screw while the plug is plugged into the spark plug boot. The spark plug sparked every time. I gapped a different (new) plug to 1/4" and did the same test. That plug sparked a few times only, most of the time nothing.
Click to expand...

There once was a young wrench named Slomo
Who gave good advice to some joker
Whose spark was not bright
And failed to ignite
Now we can all say "Hetoljaso"


#74

D

D_H

Scrubcadet10 said:
did you ever check the flywheel key?
Click to expand...
www.lawnmowerforum.com

Ariens Briggs & Stratton won't start.

What type of inline tester is this? One with a simple light inside? If so toss it in the trash. You should test the coil under LOAD. Gap an old plug to 1/4" or 6mm. Ground it out and check for spark. Some carbs have a pilot jet on top that you can see from the outside of the carb. If yours has...
www.lawnmowerforum.com www.lawnmowerforum.com
www.lawnmowerforum.com

Ariens Briggs & Stratton won't start.

I need help. I have an Ariens 20 horse 46" riding mower from 2012. It's ran like a champ ever since I bought it new. Now, I started it up, pulled out of the garage and it died while I was driving it out of the garage and off the driveway and will not start back up. Mower info: Ariens: A20H46...
www.lawnmowerforum.com www.lawnmowerforum.com


#75

D

D_H

Richard Milhous said:
There once was a young wrench named Slomo
Who gave good advice to some joker
Whose spark was not bright
And failed to ignite
Now we can all say "Hetoljaso"
Click to expand...
www.lawnmowerforum.com

Ariens Briggs & Stratton won't start.

What type of inline tester is this? One with a simple light inside? If so toss it in the trash. You should test the coil under LOAD. Gap an old plug to 1/4" or 6mm. Ground it out and check for spark. Some carbs have a pilot jet on top that you can see from the outside of the carb. If yours has...
www.lawnmowerforum.com www.lawnmowerforum.com
D_H said:
After the information I've provided:
  • Still think my ignition coil is bad?
Click to expand...
D_H said:
Any further thoughts on the ignition coil being bad based on what I've said?
Click to expand...


#76

D

D_H

Looks like no one wants to read, even if the information they are after is on the same page that they are commenting on...


#77

Mower King

Mower King

rested the tip of the spark plug on a frame screw and tried to start the mower. Spark every time to the spark plug. I got another new spark plug (same as the one mentioned) and gapped it to 1/4".

A 1/4" spark plug gap?.....you better re-gap that spark plug first, before you try anything else!


#78

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

Heh Sorry, read right over it...?


#79

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

mower king said:
rested the tip of the spark plug on a frame screw and tried to start the mower. Spark every time to the spark plug. I got another new spark plug (same as the one mentioned) and gapped it to 1/4".

A 1/4" spark plug gap?.....you better re-gap that spark plug first, before you try anything else!
Click to expand...
a healthy spark should be able to jump the 1/4" gap... think of it as a load test... as it has to over come immense compression in the cylinder.


#80

B

bertsmobile1

Well the post is starting to become a War & Peace length novel and reposting what you put in the original post does not help as we recognise it and bypass it.
Some people see your post as a thread while other who use phones will only see a series of emails so it is hard for them to follow the entire thread as it gets broken up by all of the rest of their normal email traffic .
If you have compression of a volatile fuel in a ratio that will ignite at that compression & a spark to ignite it then the engine will start & run.
In a situation like yours, ignoring all that has previously been said I start by getting a known good plug from a running engine .
remove the blower housing
By & large , while I listen the what the customer tells me I ignore it as by virtue of the fact the mower is in my shop their work is suspect .
Step 1
Put a short shot of starting fluid ( carb cleaner ) down the plug holes replace the plug & hit the starter
Goes bang = vales are closing , spark is good & at the right time. Go to step 2
Does not go bang the I remove the kill wires from the magnet & repeat
Goes bang = faulty wiring
Does not go bang = faulty magneto

Step 2
Repeat step 1 with customers plugs
Goes bang = plugs OK
No bang = faulty plugs
NB modern fuels are light oil with just enough volatiles to start a cold engine
IT IS HIGHLY CONDUCTIVE AT COMPRESSION PRESSURES so if it damps a brand new plug, the spark will track down the sides & not jump the gap.
The only way to remove this coating is to burn it off .
This is the "bad in the box" syndrome you keep hearing about because brand XYZ plugs are crap .

Step 3
Spray a SHORT SHOT of starter fluid down the carb ( Choke wide open ) close the choke and crank the engine
Goes Bang Bang Bang then valves are working properly & problem is with the fuel supply.
Does not go Bang = valve / cam problem

Enough typing from me for now.
If you wand my help then do EXACTLY what was asked and post the results
Telling me you did this last Sunday week is not good enough.
I need to know the answer as it happened today, not last week.

And sanding the coil & flywheel does more damage than good unless the rust is so thick that the coils touch the magnet as it passes.
Sanding the mounting posts so there is a know good ground is all that needs to be done
The kill wire terminal is self cleaning so the act of removing & replacing it will have cleaned it well enough.


#81

R

Richard Milhous

Scrubcadet10 said:
a healthy spark should be able to jump the 1/4" gap... think of it as a load test... as it has to over come immense compression in the cylinder.
Click to expand...
Technically, it's not the pressure, it's the density. Air is an insulator; hydrocarbons are even better insulators. Increase the density by 6x or 8x, and you increase the resistance the spark has to cross. It's more complicated than this, because vacuum is also an insulator, and the temperature increase caused by compression will reduce the resistance, but I'm guessing 1/4" gap is a real good approximation of the resistance that spark has to beat.

Trivia: the spark you actually see is wasted. Ignition is caused by the invisible capacitive discharge over the gap, which ionizes the air. The visible arc is inductive discharge over now negligible resistance, which adds very little to the arc temperature. It eats the crap out of points, though, which is one reason they use a condensor to absorb that current.


#82

D

D_H

Scrubcadet10 said:
a healthy spark should be able to jump the 1/4" gap... think of it as a load test... as it has to over come immense compression in the cylinder.
Click to expand...
I've asked a few times about the ignition coil after testing the spark. So you're thinking it's bad it seems? Your recommendation, based on everything I've done, is to replace the ignition coil?


#83

D

D_H

bertsmobile1 said:
Well the post is starting to become a War & Peace length novel and reposting what you put in the original post does not help as we recognise it and bypass it.
Some people see your post as a thread while other who use phones will only see a series of emails so it is hard for them to follow the entire thread as it gets broken up by all of the rest of their normal email traffic .
If you have compression of a volatile fuel in a ratio that will ignite at that compression & a spark to ignite it then the engine will start & run.
In a situation like yours, ignoring all that has previously been said I start by getting a known good plug from a running engine .
remove the blower housing
By & large , while I listen the what the customer tells me I ignore it as by virtue of the fact the mower is in my shop their work is suspect .
Step 1
Put a short shot of starting fluid ( carb cleaner ) down the plug holes replace the plug & hit the starter
Goes bang = vales are closing , spark is good & at the right time. Go to step 2
Does not go bang the I remove the kill wires from the magnet & repeat
Goes bang = faulty wiring
Does not go bang = faulty magneto

Step 2
Repeat step 1 with customers plugs
Goes bang = plugs OK
No bang = faulty plugs
NB modern fuels are light oil with just enough volatiles to start a cold engine
IT IS HIGHLY CONDUCTIVE AT COMPRESSION PRESSURES so if it damps a brand new plug, the spark will track down the sides & not jump the gap.
The only way to remove this coating is to burn it off .
This is the "bad in the box" syndrome you keep hearing about because brand XYZ plugs are crap .

Step 3
Spray a SHORT SHOT of starter fluid down the carb ( Choke wide open ) close the choke and crank the engine
Goes Bang Bang Bang then valves are working properly & problem is with the fuel supply.
Does not go Bang = valve / cam problem

Enough typing from me for now.
If you wand my help then do EXACTLY what was asked and post the results
Telling me you did this last Sunday week is not good enough.
I need to know the answer as it happened today, not last week.

And sanding the coil & flywheel does more damage than good unless the rust is so thick that the coils touch the magnet as it passes.
Sanding the mounting posts so there is a know good ground is all that needs to be done
The kill wire terminal is self cleaning so the act of removing & replacing it will have cleaned it well enough.
Click to expand...
I agree that this is turning into a novel. It's turning into a novel for a few reasons:
  • I have to repeat myself to posters.
  • Posters will not read what I post.
  • Posters can not remember what I've done.
  • Can't remember what mower I've got.
  • Can't remember what I've done in this thread.
I get some of that. I am trying to make this as easy for people as possible have all of the current information in one place, instead of all over this thread, since people don't want to read or remember. You're going to prove my point in this next part.

Oh, and I guess I'll have to try to guess what NB to you means. No bang? Man, my fingers hurt now.​
We get emails, life is tough...​

That is why I reposted what has happened. If you'll try to notice this time, there are more 'things I've done' in the reposting than in the original posting. In the reposting I've included what has transpired in this thread so as to make it a little easier for people.

I believe you when you say you ignore people.
www.lawnmowerforum.com

Ariens Briggs & Stratton won't start.

Have you tried more "starter fluid" while starting?
www.lawnmowerforum.com www.lawnmowerforum.com

In reading your reply, I realized I forgot to mention a moment ago, again, that when I had the spark plug out, I sprayed at little carb cleaner into the hole, and when I reassembled the plug and attempted to start, the engine did try to fire. About two bangs starting on the first revolution.

As far as plugs go, again already in the thread, I am using brand new plugs. Brand new one (I list what it is on page one) in the engine, and a brand new one used to gap 1/4". I have already said I sacrificed that plug.

As far as your help, no, if you are not going to take this seriously, then don't reply. Retorts like yours are some of the reason this thread is long. If you want to be helpful, be helpful. I've got a mower that has been working like a brand new machine for the past 8 years running, until a week ago. I don't need to be answering the same questions again and again, or providing the same information over and over, or trying the exact same things over and over because people can't read. You're wasting my time.


#84

R

Richard Milhous

Slomo told you long ago how to test your spark. You didn't bother. Now that it failed the test, you're still farting around.

You whined about 5 (not totally irrelevant) posts hijacking your 200-post thread.

You can't be bothered to find non-ethanol gas.

You won't drop $30 on No-Reilly for a compression gauge, but you expect total strangers to judge your engine compression by telepathy.

Just take it to a shop.


#85

D

D_H

Richard Milhous said:
Slomo told you long ago how to test your spark. You didn't bother. Now that it failed the test, you're still farting around.

You whined about 5 (not totally irrelevant) posts hijacking your 200-post thread.

You can't be bothered to find non-ethanol gas.

You won't drop $30 on No-Reilly for a compression gauge, but you expect total strangers to judge your engine compression by telepathy.

Just take it to a shop.
Click to expand...
I could go back and show you where and how you are wrong on every single one of your statements. But I'm not wasting that kind of time.

You think you're frustrated...it's my mower.


#86

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

i would say the coil is definitely a suspect and should be held for questioning... With a good ground it should throw a spark 1/4".... Reading back you said it did not fire with starting fluid down the intake, but it did fire with starting fluid down the plug hole that would make suspect the intake valve not opening, but you also said you could see some fuel shooting out of the plug hole when you were checking for spark so that suggests the intake valve is opening properly. A real head scratcher you have here.
When it died, did it cut off like when you turn the key or did it sputter like you would have ran out of gasoline.


#87

B

bertsmobile1

If you follow what I posted you will recognise the diagnostic process works by bypassing things one at a time.
So it is important that the goop down the plug hole step one is done again as with all of the faffing around by now your new plugs could be compromised.
Then followed by step 2
I use terms like "Bang & No Bang" because they can not be misinterpreted as some will call a spark jumping a gap "fire " etc etc etc.
I could have said combustion but I like to keep things simple.
And with mowers they are simple and way too many people try to make things a lot more complicated than they should be .
If the magneto is strong enough to ignite the goop down the plug hole and then in Step 3 to ignite the goop sprayed into the carb throat then it is strong enough to start & run the engine, even if it misses a bit so it really does not matter if it throws a 1/8 " spark, a 1/4" spark , a 1/2" spark or even a 1' spark just so long as it ignites the fuel .
I have 5 different spark testers , the trick is to use the one that is appropriate for the diagnosis you are trying to do .
I saw where this thread was going so decided not to get involved as I am a mower technical & not a novelist.
Even more so with magneto coils because they are a works or replace item & not repairable.
Once the engine is running we can worry about the spark strength or lack there of which will manifest itself as a miss .
Right now the immediate problem is getting the thing to start.
So back to what I posted before
If you want my help then please do the tests as posted then post your results from each one .

On another "war & peace" it got to page 8 before the owner posted that the rockers were at different heights so we finally worked out the valve guides have shifted.
What I asked you to do tests the basics.
I should also have mentioned we need to know where the engine went bang
Ie in the exhaust = valve open or timing wrong
in the carb = valve open usually because of a loose seat .

So over to you.
I am off to do a house call & replace a deck belt so won't be back till tomorrow local time.


#88

S

slomo

D_H said:
I have pulled the (new) spark plug out and rested it on a frame screw while the plug is plugged into the spark plug boot. The spark plug sparked every time. I gapped a different (new) plug to 1/4" and did the same test. That plug sparked a few times only, most of the time nothing.
Click to expand...
Make sure the part is clean and rust free that you ground the plug to. No paint just clean metal.


#89

D

D_H

Scrubcadet10 said:
i would say the coil is definitely a suspect and should be held for questioning... With a good ground it should throw a spark 1/4".... Reading back you said it did not fire with starting fluid down the intake, but it did fire with starting fluid down the plug hole that would make suspect the intake valve not opening, but you also said you could see some fuel shooting out of the plug hole when you were checking for spark so that suggests the intake valve is opening properly. A real head scratcher you have here.
When it died, did it cut off like when you turn the key or did it sputter like you would have ran out of gasoline.
Click to expand...
Yes, you are correct on your reading. That's exactly what I have done and that's exactly what the mower did.

Yes, when the mower shut off, I started it up, I was driving it out of the garage, across the driveway to grass, (with the blades not engaged) the mower shut off, just like if I had either 1) turned the key off, or 2) stood up off the seat while the blades are engaged. Yes, it just turned off. No sputtering, no surging, just off.


#90

D

D_H

Wait a minute. I'm not a mechanic. I'm doing the best I know how with this.

I am just now reading that I need to make sure the grounding screw is free of paint. I didn't know that. Some of the paint has worn off but it still has some paint. I'll go take a wire brush to it to remove the rest of the paint.


#91

D

D_H

bertsmobile1 said:
If you follow what I posted you will recognise the diagnostic process works by bypassing things one at a time.
So it is important that the goop down the plug hole step one is done again as with all of the faffing around by now your new plugs could be compromised.
Then followed by step 2
I use terms like "Bang & No Bang" because they can not be misinterpreted as some will call a spark jumping a gap "fire " etc etc etc.
I could have said combustion but I like to keep things simple.
And with mowers they are simple and way too many people try to make things a lot more complicated than they should be .
If the magneto is strong enough to ignite the goop down the plug hole and then in Step 3 to ignite the goop sprayed into the carb throat then it is strong enough to start & run the engine, even if it misses a bit so it really does not matter if it throws a 1/8 " spark, a 1/4" spark , a 1/2" spark or even a 1' spark just so long as it ignites the fuel .
I have 5 different spark testers , the trick is to use the one that is appropriate for the diagnosis you are trying to do .
I saw where this thread was going so decided not to get involved as I am a mower technical & not a novelist.
Even more so with magneto coils because they are a works or replace item & not repairable.
Once the engine is running we can worry about the spark strength or lack there of which will manifest itself as a miss .
Right now the immediate problem is getting the thing to start.
So back to what I posted before
If you want my help then please do the tests as posted then post your results from each one .

On another "war & peace" it got to page 8 before the owner posted that the rockers were at different heights so we finally worked out the valve guides have shifted.
What I asked you to do tests the basics.
I should also have mentioned we need to know where the engine went bang
Ie in the exhaust = valve open or timing wrong
in the carb = valve open usually because of a loose seat .

So over to you.
I am off to do a house call & replace a deck belt so won't be back till tomorrow local time.
Click to expand...
Thanks for trying to explain things a little and for attempting to keep it simple. People appreciate that.

I can go try the spark/carb cleaner tests again on the cylinder and carb.

I didn't want to start to take the engine apart if it wasn't needed, is the only reason I waited to take off the valve cover until that was the only thing people were saying.

I initially bought 4 spark plugs, two of the new ones are now in use (mower, 1/4" gap test). I can try another brand new one.


#92

B

bertsmobile1

Threads can get a little out of hand very easily.
Every one has their "pet" problem that had them beating their heads against a brick wall so naturally that is the solution to everything.
Then we can easily get into the my tool is better than your tool debates followed by you are using the tool wrong then this is how the tool works,, hold on what were we trying to do ?

As such I like to get the owners to do the same tests hat I would do in my workshop .
They are simple , require little in the way of expensive diagnostic tooling and the results will be obvious to all following the thread.
Every tech has their own way of doing the same thing and their own order of doing it and their own way of describing things.
Joe public tends t have 2 terms.
it works
It don't work .
A lot of what people have suggested is good but we need to go to the basics.
Once the engine starts & runs then we can worry about magneto strength to get it running better
But the problem right now is it does not start so first we get it to start .
Some times there will be multiple problems and most times each one needs to be fixed before the next can be diagnosed.

It is hot in the USA right now
If by chance you are using a winter blend then it could be no more than all of the room temperature volatile fractions of the fuel you are using have evaporated .
I have a "fun" test for that little problem.


#93

D

D_H

Okay, I tried the spark plug test again.
  1. Removed the spark plug.
  2. Removed the rest of the thin layer of paint off the frame screw.
  3. Placed the 1/4" gapped spark plug into the spark plug boot and tried to fire the engine.
  4. This time no spark. Not even a few times like I got before.
  5. There was a consistent compression blow of fuel out of the spark plug hole, again about 3', every time the engine make a revolution.
  6. I went and bought a new magneto/armature/ignition coil - the one I listed on page 6 https://www.lawnmowerforum.com/threads/ariens-briggs-stratton-wont-start.66125/post-408071
  7. Came back home, installed it. I did the 1/4” spark test again. This time I got a good consistent spark over the 1/4” gap.
  8. Assembled the a new spark plug into the new ignition coil and attempted to start. No change.
  9. I took the spark plug out again and sprayed a shot of carb cleaner into the spark plug hole and re-assembled. The engine fired for a second. Bang.
  10. I sprayed a shot of carb cleaner into the air inlet on the carb. No bang.

I guess my problem is in my carburetor.
I went and got new gas. Drained the gas out of the mower (good full tube flow through the fuel line to carb).
I sprayed carb cleaner into the air inlet of the carb while the gas was drained (choke open).
I tried to start the mower (open choke) - No bang this time. Tried again with choke closed. - No bang.
I went and got new gas. I poured out the old gas.

I have been refraining from telling you guys this next part. But my weed eater (SRM225 - Bought in 2007) also went down on the same day my mower did. It's got different gas on it. I had been using that gas for some time now, maybe the last 10 mows or so. I had another carb, so today, I replaced the carb with a new one and adjusted the idle screw, then weed eated my entire yard. I'm tired...

  • What do you guys think about the carb now? It's a Nikki. You can look it up by the engine number, page 1. I'm reading that the Chinese are building crap. (Believe me, I know, they always build crap)
  • How should I go forward?
  • New replacement B&S Nikki?
  • Cheap aftermarket?
  • Rebuild?
  • Take apart, compressed air, carb cleaner, re-assemble, cross fingers?
  • What do you guys think about step# 5 above?


#94

oldlawnguy

oldlawnguy

D_H said:
Okay, I tried the spark plug test again.
  1. Removed the spark plug.
  2. Removed the rest of the thin layer of paint off the frame screw.
  3. Placed the 1/4" gapped spark plug into the spark plug boot and tried to fire the engine.
  4. This time no spark. Not even a few times like I got before.
  5. There was a consistent compression blow of fuel out of the spark plug hole, again about 3', every time the engine make a revolution.
  6. I went and bought a new magneto/armature/ignition coil - the one I listed on page 6 https://www.lawnmowerforum.com/threads/ariens-briggs-stratton-wont-start.66125/post-408071
  7. Came back home, installed it. I did the 1/4” spark test again. This time I got a good consistent spark over the 1/4” gap.
  8. Assembled the a new spark plug into the new ignition coil and attempted to start. No change.
  9. I took the spark plug out again and sprayed a shot of carb cleaner into the spark plug hole and re-assembled. The engine fired for a second. Bang.
  10. I sprayed a shot of carb cleaner into the air inlet on the carb. No bang.

I guess my problem is in my carburetor.
I went and got new gas. Drained the gas out of the mower (good full tube flow through the fuel line to carb).
I sprayed carb cleaner into the air inlet of the carb while the gas was drained (choke open).
I tried to start the mower (open choke) - No bang this time. Tried again with choke closed. - No bang.
I went and got new gas. I poured out the old gas.

I have been refraining from telling you guys this next part. But my weed eater (SRM225 - Bought in 2007) also went down on the same day my mower did. It's got different gas on it. I had been using that gas for some time now, maybe the last 10 mows or so. I had another carb, so today, I replaced the carb with a new one and adjusted the idle screw, then weed eated my entire yard. I'm tired...

  • What do you guys think about the carb now? It's a Nikki. You can look it up by the engine number, page 1. I'm reading that the Chinese are building crap. (Believe me, I know, they always build crap)
  • How should I go forward?
  • New replacement B&S Nikki?
  • Cheap aftermarket?
  • Rebuild?
  • Take apart, compressed air, carb cleaner, re-assemble, cross fingers?
  • What do you guys think about step# 5 above?
Click to expand...
Kudos for weed eating your whole yard! Hang in there.

I think you have to decide who you want in the drivers seat. In other words, do you want to drive the troubleshooting and ask for forum advice/feedback or do you want the forum here to drive the troubleshooting and you are carrying out the troubleshooting steps in order as specified. Things get hairy when you try to do both. Either way is no gaurentee collectively we can get to true root cause analysis.

IMO troubleshooting is a very logical methodical process of eliminating variables to get to true root cause. You appear to have good DIY skills and the folks on this forum are great and really interested in helping. Relax, take a break. Forum members are blind and you are their eyes and ears. Remember forum advice is free and that includes the pro shop owners who contribute here as well. :)

Remember we have all been in your spot before in some form with a piece of equipment that just wants to play with you cuz it can.


#95

B

bertsmobile1

OK so now we are getting somewhere.
We are now confident that there is enough spark to ignite the mix & it is happening near enough to the right time.
And the wiring is good .

AS the carb spray through the carb did not fire the engine then you have a valve problem ( assuming the choke was open so the spray can get in )
And most likely with the inlet valve not opening enough to let the carb cleaner in, although an exhaust valve not opening will not let the exhaust out but usually that will allow the engine to go bang once then when the inlet opens again you get a rush of exhaust blowing back out the carb .

You need to think about it in simple terms
The engine basically goes suck-bang-blow,
So now you need to take the rocker cover off and work out why the valves are not working.
Mower valves & guides are identical and placed identically in the head so they should go down the same distance & come up the same distance & sit the same distance off the head .


#96

R

Richard Milhous

bertsmobile1 said:
OK so now we are getting somewhere.
We are now confident that there is enough spark to ignite the mix & it is happening near enough to the right time.
And the wiring is good .

AS the carb spray through the carb did not fire the engine then you have a valve problem ( assuming the choke was open so the spray can get in )
And most likely with the inlet valve not opening enough to let the carb cleaner in, although an exhaust valve not opening will not let the exhaust out but usually that will allow the engine to go bang once then when the inlet opens again you get a rush of exhaust blowing back out the carb .

You need to think about it in simple terms
The engine basically goes suck-bang-blow,
So now you need to take the rocker cover off and work out why the valves are not working.
Mower valves & guides are identical and placed identically in the head so they should go down the same distance & come up the same distance & sit the same distance off the head .
Click to expand...
Choke, throttle, vacuum.


#97

C

Cwillhide

D_H said:
I need help. I have an Ariens 20 horse 46" riding mower from 2012. It's ran like a champ ever since I bought it new. Now, I started it up, pulled out of the garage and it died while I was driving it out of the garage and off the driveway and will not start back up.

Mower info:
Ariens: A20H46
Product: 93605300
Model: 96046002300
Engine: Briggs and Stratton Intek with XRD 540cc -> 331777-1372-B1

Things I've done since it died.
  • Put a new spark plug in it. [(Calls for Champion# RC12YC - obsolete) compatible NGK - BKR5E. 7938 is what I used.] I also found and bought Briggs & Stratton 5092 PN: 496018S.
  • Changed the oil and filter. (Briggs & Stratton oil PN: 100028, filter calls for B&S 492932 - obsolete, I used B&S PN: 842921.)
  • Checked the fuel solenoid (it is working).
  • Pulled the fuel line off of the carburetor. Fuel is going through the fuel filter and getting to the carburetor.
  • Sprayed a little starter fluid into the carb air inlet. Where the air filter attaches to.
  • Checked for spark. Getting spark to the plug.
  • I don't have a compression tester, but the engine sounds to be getting compression when it turns over. Sounds normal. When I turn the flywheel by hand, I can feel the compression. Hard to turn, then more loose, then hard again, etc.
  • I don't see any frayed wires.
Click to expand...
Check your safety switches.
D_H said:
I need help. I have an Ariens 20 horse 46" riding mower from 2012. It's ran like a champ ever since I bought it new. Now, I started it up, pulled out of the garage and it died while I was driving it out of the garage and off the driveway and will not start back up.

Mower info:
Ariens: A20H46
Product: 93605300
Model: 96046002300
Engine: Briggs and Stratton Intek with XRD 540cc -> 331777-1372-B1

Things I've done since it died.
  • Put a new spark plug in it. [(Calls for Champion# RC12YC - obsolete) compatible NGK - BKR5E. 7938 is what I used.] I also found and bought Briggs & Stratton 5092 PN: 496018S.
  • Changed the oil and filter. (Briggs & Stratton oil PN: 100028, filter calls for B&S 492932 - obsolete, I used B&S PN: 842921.)
  • Checked the fuel solenoid (it is working).
  • Pulled the fuel line off of the carburetor. Fuel is going through the fuel filter and getting to the carburetor.
  • Sprayed a little starter fluid into the carb air inlet. Where the air filter attaches to.
  • Checked for spark. Getting spark to the plug.
  • I don't have a compression tester, but the engine sounds to be getting compression when it turns over. Sounds normal. When I turn the flywheel by hand, I can feel the compression. Hard to turn, then more loose, then hard again, etc.
  • I don't see any frayed wires.
Click to expand...


#98

C

Cwillhide

bertsmobile1 said:
OK so now we are getting somewhere.
We are now confident that there is enough spark to ignite the mix & it is happening near enough to the right time.
And the wiring is good .

AS the carb spray through the carb did not fire the engine then you have a valve problem ( assuming the choke was open so the spray can get in )
And most likely with the inlet valve not opening enough to let the carb cleaner in, although an exhaust valve not opening will not let the exhaust out but usually that will allow the engine to go bang once then when the inlet opens again you get a rush of exhaust blowing back out the carb .

You need to think about it in simple terms
The engine basically goes suck-bang-blow,
So now you need to take the rocker cover off and work out why the valves are not working.
Mower valves & guides are identical and placed identically in the head so they should go down the same distance & come up the same distance & sit the same distance off the head .
Click to expand...
Check your safety switches. I left the blades engaged after replacing spindles,pullies, spindles and blades. Luckily I figured it out after a short break. I was suspecting the seat switch, but no, it was sabatoged by me.


#99

D

D_H

You guys are going to love this. I guess I had bad gas...wow.

www.lawnmowerforum.com

Ariens Briggs & Stratton won't start.

I need help. I have an Ariens 20 horse 46" riding mower from 2012. It's ran like a champ ever since I bought it new. Now, I started it up, pulled out of the garage and it died while I was driving it out of the garage and off the driveway and will not start back up. Mower info: Ariens: A20H46...
www.lawnmowerforum.com www.lawnmowerforum.com

Just a recap: Things I've done since it died.
  • Put a new spark plug in it. [(Calls for Champion# RC12YC - obsolete) compatible NGK - BKR5E. 7938 is what I used.] I also found and bought Briggs & Stratton 5092 PN: 496018S.
  • Changed the oil and filter. (Briggs & Stratton oil PN: 100028, filter calls for B&S 492932 - obsolete, I used B&S PN: 842921.)
  • Checked the fuel solenoid (it is working). I hear a very positive click from the bottom of the carburetor bowl when it opens and closes from an ignition key turn.
  • Pulled the fuel line off of the carburetor. Fuel is going through the fuel filter and getting to the carburetor. There is a small stream of fuel coming from the end of the fuel line.
  • Sprayed a little starter fluid (used Berryman b12 carb cleaner) into the carb air inlet. Where the air filter attaches to. Sprayed again while trying to start the mower. No change.
  • Checked for spark. Getting spark to the plug. According to an inline tester. Then I removed the spark plug, inserted it into the spark plug boot, rested the tip of the spark plug on a frame screw and tried to start the mower. Spark every time to the spark plug. I got another new spark plug (same as the one mentioned) and gapped it to 1/4". The spark plug post was sticking straight out with a slight bend over to center. I placed the spark plug into the spark plug boot and rested the tip on a frame screw. I turned the engine over. The plug sparked a few times, most of the time no spark.
  • I don't have a compression tester, but the engine sounds to be getting compression when it turns over. Sounds normal. When I turn the flywheel by hand, I can feel the compression. Hard to turn, then more loose, then hard again, etc. While the spark plug was out and I attempted to start the engine, fuel shot out of the spark plug hole about 3'. A lot of droplets, good spray, mist with every revolution.
  • With the spark plug out, I put a straw into the spark plug hole to see if the piston is rotating. It is. The straw slid across the top of the piston a little while I was holding it against it. When I pulled the straw out, I noticed a little black oil build up on the tip of the straw.
  • I don't see any frayed wires.
  • I have removed the ignition coil and lightly sanded the ends of the coil. I also lightly sanded the flywheel. I gapped the ignition coil to .011" - no change.
  • Spayed a little carb cleaner into the spark plug hole, while I had it out testing it, assembled the spark plug back into the engine with the boot on. Tried to fire. Engine turned over and fired once. Repeated that. Engine fired again.
  • Went back to the carb, again sprayed a little starter fluid (used Berryman b12 carb cleaner) into the carb air inlet. Where the air filter attaches to. Sprayed again while trying to start the mower. No change.
  • I have removed the fuel line at the carb, sprayed carb cleaner into the carb through the opening (most of it came right back out at me), let it sit overnight. Tried to start the next day, - no change.
  • I pulled the cooling fan off the top of the motor to check the keyway. No damage. I did not hit anything.
  • I cleaned the engine.
  • I have opened the valve cover to watch the valves operate. Everything had a slight coat of amber oil. As I turned the flywheel by hand, the bottom valve articulated in and then back out. Next the top valve did the same maneuver. Both valves are closed, the flywheel became resistant as the sound of air releasing would emanate from inside the engine, like a valve being released. Flywheel would become easy to turn and the valves would repeat the process.
  • Went and got new gas.
  • Drained the old gas out of the fuel tank. The gas looked and smelled good (smelled like gas, I didn't see any separation). There was a little residual gas left in the very bottom of the tank.
  • Removed the fuel line, from the tank to the carb. Drained all gas out of the fuel lines. Replaced fuel filter. sucked up the residual gas out of the fuel tank. Replaced fuel line.
  • After several attempted starts with everything assembled again, choke open, choke closed. Repeat. The engine fired once. Repeat starting. Engine fired again once. Kept trying and trying and trying, finally the engine struggled and started. I throttled up and let it run. Smoke coming from the muffler (I guess that smoke was burn off from inside the combustion chamber). I ran it for a little while until it stopped smoking.
  • Changed the breather filter. It was clogged up enough to make the engine start to gasp for air.
  • Running like a sewing machine again.
  • I will be changing the oil and oil filter in a week, and will probably do it again in a month.

A few people who were instrumental, and patient, in helping, thanks!
Scrubcadet10
slomo
bertsmobile1


#100

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

Great news!! thanks for letting us know


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