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Are Raptor SD blades level? (deck leveling question)
#1
M
mooch91
M
mooch91
All,
I'm in the process of leveling the deck on my 54 Raptor SD per the instructions in the manual. The manual has you set it level left-right and front-rear. I've heard that you should have 1/8" - 1/4" lower in the front for improved cut quality. Before I go and set it this way, I wanted to see if anyone knew if the blades themselves were level or if they were already pitched in this direction. I tried to measure them and they seemed fairly level, but it's hard to work under the deck with a tape measure. Thanks!
I'm in the process of leveling the deck on my 54 Raptor SD per the instructions in the manual. The manual has you set it level left-right and front-rear. I've heard that you should have 1/8" - 1/4" lower in the front for improved cut quality. Before I go and set it this way, I wanted to see if anyone knew if the blades themselves were level or if they were already pitched in this direction. I tried to measure them and they seemed fairly level, but it's hard to work under the deck with a tape measure. Thanks!
#2
D
dr mowers
D
dr mowers
it really should be an 1/8 of an inch higher in the front (not lower) and the blades themselves should be level. when i work on the deck of a mower i jack the mower and set each tire on a cinder-block to make a little more room to work. you can also use something like 2x6's or any items that are uniformly constructed.
#3
T
tbarnett
T
tbarnett
Place you mower on a level surface and raise the deck to it's highest setting. Cut 4 pieces of 2x4 the same length as the maximum height of the blade. Example: if the highest setting is 4-1/2 inches cut the wood pieces to this length.
Set your outside blades to face front/back and set the blocks under each tip of the blades. Adjust your deck until the tips of the blades just touch the top of the wood blocks.
Set your blades to face sideways and check the side to side setting. I've found that by doing the step above, a side to side adjustment is rarely needed.
The whole process only takes a few minutes!! Hope this helps.
Set your outside blades to face front/back and set the blocks under each tip of the blades. Adjust your deck until the tips of the blades just touch the top of the wood blocks.
Set your blades to face sideways and check the side to side setting. I've found that by doing the step above, a side to side adjustment is rarely needed.
The whole process only takes a few minutes!! Hope this helps.
#4
M
mooch91
M
mooch91
Thanks guys. I did the adjustment off the deck (not the blades) and then went and measured the blade distances to floor at the front-back and left-right positions. All measurements were within 1/8" of each other. I then raised the back of the deck about 1/8" to give it a bit of a rake, better for striping and a clean cut from what I've been reading.
Now I have an issue with the deck not wanting to latch in the raised position. See new thread...
Thanks again!
Now I have an issue with the deck not wanting to latch in the raised position. See new thread...
Thanks again!
#5
djdicetn
You should use the blade tips to adjust/level the deck, not the deck shell. Within 1/8" should be OK on the outside blade tips(facing East/West) but it would be better to get them exactly the same. The "normal" pitch is setting the blade tips 1/8"-1/4" lower in the front(facing North/South), like you did(gives balanced cut quality/engine power required). Actually you will notice an improved cut quality(and striping) if you heel the deck which means setting the rear blade tips 1/8"-1/4" lower than the front blade tips(facing North/South). This requires a little more power from the engine but usually any ZTR can handle that. Can't assist with the latch problem....sorry:0(
djdicetn
Thanks guys. I did the adjustment off the deck (not the blades) and then went and measured the blade distances to floor at the front-back and left-right positions. All measurements were within 1/8" of each other. I then raised the back of the deck about 1/8" to give it a bit of a rake, better for striping and a clean cut from what I've been reading.
Now I have an issue with the deck not wanting to latch in the raised position. See new thread...
Thanks again!
You should use the blade tips to adjust/level the deck, not the deck shell. Within 1/8" should be OK on the outside blade tips(facing East/West) but it would be better to get them exactly the same. The "normal" pitch is setting the blade tips 1/8"-1/4" lower in the front(facing North/South), like you did(gives balanced cut quality/engine power required). Actually you will notice an improved cut quality(and striping) if you heel the deck which means setting the rear blade tips 1/8"-1/4" lower than the front blade tips(facing North/South). This requires a little more power from the engine but usually any ZTR can handle that. Can't assist with the latch problem....sorry:0(
#6
M
Micko
M
Micko
Why did you mess with it in the first place?
Follow the instructions in the manual exactly. Thats what there for! To do it any other way can cause issues like your deck not latching!
The surface your working off needs to be perfectly flat. Any depression or rise will effect the measurement. You can check that by putting water on the surface. Lower spots will pool obviously!
Decide on what tire pressure you want to run before you do anything. Changing pressure even a few psi after setting the deck can change the pitch.
Remember, your setting the deck without you sitting on the machine. Your weight will change the deck pitch slightly along with a full tank of fuel as opposed to empty. Set deck with half tank(s) for an average!
If you want to experiment with deck pitch, stick 12 psi in the drive tires, set your deck as per the manual. If you want to try a flatter deck, reduce the pressure in the tires. If you want more pitch, up the pressure. This is for experimentation only!
I dont think Ive ever heard or read any commercial cutter suggest lower blade tips at the rear of the deck. Decks are not designed to cut that way!
If you want better stripes, stick a rubber flap on the deck or back of the machine! Plenty of designs out there for that kind of thing but the most important thing with a deck is clean cut and great discharge. Anything else can be worked on or improved with mods.
Mooch, take my advice, just get the deck back to spec! Since youve already messed with it, its all you can do now!
Follow the instructions in the manual exactly. Thats what there for! To do it any other way can cause issues like your deck not latching!
The surface your working off needs to be perfectly flat. Any depression or rise will effect the measurement. You can check that by putting water on the surface. Lower spots will pool obviously!
Decide on what tire pressure you want to run before you do anything. Changing pressure even a few psi after setting the deck can change the pitch.
Remember, your setting the deck without you sitting on the machine. Your weight will change the deck pitch slightly along with a full tank of fuel as opposed to empty. Set deck with half tank(s) for an average!
If you want to experiment with deck pitch, stick 12 psi in the drive tires, set your deck as per the manual. If you want to try a flatter deck, reduce the pressure in the tires. If you want more pitch, up the pressure. This is for experimentation only!
I dont think Ive ever heard or read any commercial cutter suggest lower blade tips at the rear of the deck. Decks are not designed to cut that way!
If you want better stripes, stick a rubber flap on the deck or back of the machine! Plenty of designs out there for that kind of thing but the most important thing with a deck is clean cut and great discharge. Anything else can be worked on or improved with mods.
Mooch, take my advice, just get the deck back to spec! Since youve already messed with it, its all you can do now!
#7
djdicetn
"NOTE: Pitching the front of the blades lower than the rear provides a balance between cut quality and the power needed to cut the grass. Certain cutting conditions require the deck to be pitched with the rear of the blades lower than the front. Heeling the deck this way requires more engine power but can provide better cut quality."
Even though it doesn't specifically mention it in my manual, it's obvious that when you "heel your deck" the rear edge of the deck becomes slightly lower than the rear cutting blade tip which causes a "slight bend" of the remaining grass blades behind the deck therefore it gives a slight striping effect. With the "normal" front lower pitch the grass is cut once by the leading front blade tips(except with mulching blades where the rear re-cuts the clippings downward). When you use the heeling pitch, the front blades cut the grass slightly higher....then the rear blade tips(being slightly lower) cut the remaining grass again. This is what can improve the cut quality when heeling the deck. That's my story and I'm sticking to it:0)
djdicetn
I totally agree that user Mooch91 should have not adjusted his deck unless there was an obvious problem, which he does not indicate was the reason. As you stated, Mooch91 should "go back to the drawing board" and follow the specific instructions in his Owner Manual for getting the deck back the way it came from the dealer. However, I am pretty certain that his instructions will elaborate on the pitch(difference in the height of the front/rear blade tips with the blades facing Noth/South). I believe "heeling the deck" is pretty universal, but in response to your comment below is a verbatim excerpt from Page 30 of my Gravely Pro-Turn 100 XDZ Owner Manual of a Note following the deck leveling instructions:Why did you mess with it in the first place?
Follow the instructions in the manual exactly. Thats what there for! To do it any other way can cause issues like your deck not latching!
The surface your working off needs to be perfectly flat. Any depression or rise will effect the measurement. You can check that by putting water on the surface. Lower spots will pool obviously!
Decide on what tire pressure you want to run before you do anything. Changing pressure even a few psi after setting the deck can change the pitch.
Remember, your setting the deck without you sitting on the machine. Your weight will change the deck pitch slightly along with a full tank of fuel as opposed to empty. Set deck with half tank(s) for an average!
If you want to experiment with deck pitch, stick 12 psi in the drive tires, set your deck as per the manual. If you want to try a flatter deck, reduce the pressure in the tires. If you want more pitch, up the pressure. This is for experimentation only!
I dont think Ive ever heard or read any commercial cutter suggest lower blade tips at the rear of the deck. Decks are not designed to cut that way!
If you want better stripes, stick a rubber flap on the deck or back of the machine! Plenty of designs out there for that kind of thing but the most important thing with a deck is clean cut and great discharge. Anything else can be worked on or improved with mods.
Mooch, take my advice, just get the deck back to spec! Since youve already messed with it, its all you can do now!
"NOTE: Pitching the front of the blades lower than the rear provides a balance between cut quality and the power needed to cut the grass. Certain cutting conditions require the deck to be pitched with the rear of the blades lower than the front. Heeling the deck this way requires more engine power but can provide better cut quality."
Even though it doesn't specifically mention it in my manual, it's obvious that when you "heel your deck" the rear edge of the deck becomes slightly lower than the rear cutting blade tip which causes a "slight bend" of the remaining grass blades behind the deck therefore it gives a slight striping effect. With the "normal" front lower pitch the grass is cut once by the leading front blade tips(except with mulching blades where the rear re-cuts the clippings downward). When you use the heeling pitch, the front blades cut the grass slightly higher....then the rear blade tips(being slightly lower) cut the remaining grass again. This is what can improve the cut quality when heeling the deck. That's my story and I'm sticking to it:0)
#8
M
Micko
I looked up his manual for deck levelling before I posted last night, and I didnt see where it said what pitch that method would create. I may of missed it but I would assume 1/8 or 1/4 as thats pretty standard. It doesnt really matter as thats where Hustler recommends having the deck set. Remember, he changed it just a little and it effected the latching!
You are correct in that when checking the deck for pitch, the blades should be turned north, south. For level, east west. And measure the tip of the cutting edge on the blade on a super level surface.
There is a measuring tool from John Deere that makes measuring much easier than using a ruler? Amazon.com : John Deere Mower Deck Leveling Gauge #AM130907 : Walk Behind Lawn Mowers : Patio, Lawn & Garden
As far as "heeling the deck", you dont mention the "certain conditions". Like I said, Ive never heard of a contractor ever doing that, on purpose. Ive had 3 commercial Hustlers and never read that in any manual, again, I may of missed it but I dont think so! Perhaps you could research it and show me how universal it is! Have you actually done it? I would like to see some video of normal pitch v's heeled deck cutting 4" of lush grass!
You keep mentioning stripes. The most important thing is a clean cut. Stripes should be secondary as they can always be improved upon but mods later.
M
Micko
I totally agree that user Mooch91 should have not adjusted his deck unless there was an obvious problem, which he does not indicate was the reason. As you stated, Mooch91 should "go back to the drawing board" and follow the specific instructions in his Owner Manual for getting the deck back the way it came from the dealer. However, I am pretty certain that his instructions will elaborate on the pitch(difference in the height of the front/rear blade tips with the blades facing Noth/South). I believe "heeling the deck" is pretty universal, but in response to your comment below is a verbatim excerpt from Page 30 of my Gravely Pro-Turn 100 XDZ Owner Manual of a Note following the deck leveling instructions:
"NOTE: Pitching the front of the blades lower than the rear provides a balance between cut quality and the power needed to cut the grass. Certain cutting conditions require the deck to be pitched with the rear of the blades lower than the front. Heeling the deck this way requires more engine power but can provide better cut quality."
Even though it doesn't specifically mention it in my manual, it's obvious that when you "heel your deck" the rear edge of the deck becomes slightly lower than the rear cutting blade tip which causes a "slight bend" of the remaining grass blades behind the deck therefore it gives a slight striping effect. With the "normal" front lower pitch the grass is cut once by the leading front blade tips(except with mulching blades where the rear re-cuts the clippings downward). When you use the heeling pitch, the front blades cut the grass slightly higher....then the rear blade tips(being slightly lower) cut the remaining grass again. This is what can improve the cut quality when heeling the deck. That's my story and I'm sticking to it:0)
I looked up his manual for deck levelling before I posted last night, and I didnt see where it said what pitch that method would create. I may of missed it but I would assume 1/8 or 1/4 as thats pretty standard. It doesnt really matter as thats where Hustler recommends having the deck set. Remember, he changed it just a little and it effected the latching!
You are correct in that when checking the deck for pitch, the blades should be turned north, south. For level, east west. And measure the tip of the cutting edge on the blade on a super level surface.
There is a measuring tool from John Deere that makes measuring much easier than using a ruler? Amazon.com : John Deere Mower Deck Leveling Gauge #AM130907 : Walk Behind Lawn Mowers : Patio, Lawn & Garden
As far as "heeling the deck", you dont mention the "certain conditions". Like I said, Ive never heard of a contractor ever doing that, on purpose. Ive had 3 commercial Hustlers and never read that in any manual, again, I may of missed it but I dont think so! Perhaps you could research it and show me how universal it is! Have you actually done it? I would like to see some video of normal pitch v's heeled deck cutting 4" of lush grass!
You keep mentioning stripes. The most important thing is a clean cut. Stripes should be secondary as they can always be improved upon but mods later.
#9
djdicetn
Well........no, I didn't research it aside from many users on this and other forums discussing it. And when I saw that in my Gravely Owner manual I just figured that Gravely didn't "pull it out of their hat". I didn't say "Certain cutting conditions", they did. I'm not going to visit my best friend(Google:0), but I will contact Ariens Customer Support and ask them if they can add some clarity to the "Certain cutting conditions" and report back what they say. I will also ask them to confirm/deny that this(heeling the deck) adds a slight striping effect to the cut, although I already know enough about plane geometry to figure that one out:0)
I'm pretty certain that several of the professionals on this forum(user Carscw comes to mind) recommend heeling the deck so at least some contractors know about doing this.
I don't think anyone would complain about having some mild stripes on their lawn as many commercial ZTR's do this naturally because of their deck design so people see it on lawns cut but contractors all the time and it is becoming more and more popular.
djdicetn
As far as "heeling the deck", you dont mention the "certain conditions". Like I said, Ive never heard of a contractor ever doing that, on purpose. Ive had 3 commercial Hustlers and never read that in any manual, again, I may of missed it but I dont think so! Perhaps you could research it and show me how universal it is! Have you actually done it? I would like to see some video of normal pitch v's heeled deck cutting 4" of lush grass!
You keep mentioning stripes. The most important thing is a clean cut. Stripes should be secondary as they can always be improved upon but mods later.
Well........no, I didn't research it aside from many users on this and other forums discussing it. And when I saw that in my Gravely Owner manual I just figured that Gravely didn't "pull it out of their hat". I didn't say "Certain cutting conditions", they did. I'm not going to visit my best friend(Google:0), but I will contact Ariens Customer Support and ask them if they can add some clarity to the "Certain cutting conditions" and report back what they say. I will also ask them to confirm/deny that this(heeling the deck) adds a slight striping effect to the cut, although I already know enough about plane geometry to figure that one out:0)
I'm pretty certain that several of the professionals on this forum(user Carscw comes to mind) recommend heeling the deck so at least some contractors know about doing this.
I don't think anyone would complain about having some mild stripes on their lawn as many commercial ZTR's do this naturally because of their deck design so people see it on lawns cut but contractors all the time and it is becoming more and more popular.
#10
M
Micko
I understand that you were quoting from the gravely manual, I would just like to know what the "certain conditions" are. It would be great if you could find that out! I wouldnt mind betting it has something to do with mulching but thats only a guess. If mower manufacturers really wanted us to heel the deck, they would come like that from the factory!
Heeling the deck may add more to the striping look but as I said, the stripe should be secondary to the cut. I also understand that the grass will, or at least some of it be cut twice. ie, front and back but, what happens between the blades. I would hazard a guess and say you'll increase the risk of a tear rather than a cut, deck build up, choking, clumping etc.
But think about it, if grass is getting cut at the back of the deck, where do those clippings go? They will circulate around each chamber, get sent from the discharge side to the trim side. It already happens with a normal deck setting but if lower in back, its going to add to it. Clippings will be chopped up more which can be a good thing but if there is moisture, you will most likely get a mash and more deck build up which create more problems.
There are thousands upon thousands of lawn cutters out there. I'd bet the amount of guys that heel the deck would be barely registrable as a percentage.
As far as needing a commercial deck to create stripes, or get better ones, thats not necessarily true. Ive seen stripes from JD lawn tractors that are up there with the best of them!
To heel a deck just for a little more stripe seems well, crazy to me! Stick a roller or rubber flap on the back of the deck if its important to you! Remember, some grass types just stripe better also, even some commercial decks stripe better than others.
I went searching on the subject on this forum and came across this
Seems to me you were perfectly happy with the way it cut, or should of been! I cant figure out if you tried with the "heeled" setting or not so, did you? And is what you wrote here what happened? If so, its basically describing what I would expect!
From my research on here, seems you bring up "heeling" quite often. Have you actually done it yourself yet?
M
Micko
Well........no, I didn't research it aside from many users on this and other forums discussing it. And when I saw that in my Gravely Owner manual I just figured that Gravely didn't "pull it out of their hat". I didn't say "Certain cutting conditions", they did. I'm not going to visit my best friend(Google:0), but I will contact Ariens Customer Support and ask them if they can add some clarity to the "Certain cutting conditions" and report back what they say. I will also ask them to confirm/deny that this(heeling the deck) adds a slight striping effect to the cut, although I already know enough about plane geometry to figure that one out:0)
I'm pretty certain that several of the professionals on this forum(user Carscw comes to mind) recommend heeling the deck so at least some contractors know about doing this.
I don't think anyone would complain about having some mild stripes on their lawn as many commercial ZTR's do this naturally because of their deck design so people see it on lawns cut but contractors all the time and it is becoming more and more popular.
I understand that you were quoting from the gravely manual, I would just like to know what the "certain conditions" are. It would be great if you could find that out! I wouldnt mind betting it has something to do with mulching but thats only a guess. If mower manufacturers really wanted us to heel the deck, they would come like that from the factory!
Heeling the deck may add more to the striping look but as I said, the stripe should be secondary to the cut. I also understand that the grass will, or at least some of it be cut twice. ie, front and back but, what happens between the blades. I would hazard a guess and say you'll increase the risk of a tear rather than a cut, deck build up, choking, clumping etc.
But think about it, if grass is getting cut at the back of the deck, where do those clippings go? They will circulate around each chamber, get sent from the discharge side to the trim side. It already happens with a normal deck setting but if lower in back, its going to add to it. Clippings will be chopped up more which can be a good thing but if there is moisture, you will most likely get a mash and more deck build up which create more problems.
There are thousands upon thousands of lawn cutters out there. I'd bet the amount of guys that heel the deck would be barely registrable as a percentage.
As far as needing a commercial deck to create stripes, or get better ones, thats not necessarily true. Ive seen stripes from JD lawn tractors that are up there with the best of them!
To heel a deck just for a little more stripe seems well, crazy to me! Stick a roller or rubber flap on the back of the deck if its important to you! Remember, some grass types just stripe better also, even some commercial decks stripe better than others.
I went searching on the subject on this forum and came across this
SandburRanch,
You touched on what was going to be my "follow-up" question(be careful........reading minds like mine can be dangerous:0)
Does the front-lower pitch and rear-lower pitch have significantly different clipping discharge efficiency???
In other words, with my deck set by the dealer at delivery with the front of the blades 1/8 inch lower than the back this has resulted in VERY efficient grass clipping discharge(without any trace of "piles of grass clippings" even without a "mulch kit")......AND......absolutely no grass clipping/dirt "buildup" underneath the deck that requires cleaning the deck belly before the next mowing. If I changed the blade pitch with the back side tip of the blades lower than the front and the cut of my yard looked significantly "smoother"......BUT.....there were heaps of grass clippings all over the yard and/OR a buildup underneath the deck that required scraping or washing out before mowing again this would NOT be a good trade-off in my opinion. I would rather have a less "pro-cut" look to my lawn than to have to deal with piles of grass clippings in the yard or cleaning underneath the deck after each mowing(something I do NOT miss about my lawn tractor with the 54" stamped deck:0)
Seems to me you were perfectly happy with the way it cut, or should of been! I cant figure out if you tried with the "heeled" setting or not so, did you? And is what you wrote here what happened? If so, its basically describing what I would expect!
From my research on here, seems you bring up "heeling" quite often. Have you actually done it yourself yet?
#11
djdicetn
That's a very old post by me when I was researching and at that point no...I had not tried it yet(I was just "speculating" on the possibility of buildup). Since then I have added a Gravely OEM mulch kit.....AND....heeled my deck and I am VERY happy with the resulting cut quality improvement(and the complete disappearance of grass clippings:0).
Actually, when I first got my Gravely there was absolutely no grass clipping buildup underneath the deck(just like I stated). After mowing with it more, it began collecting clippings underneath the deck(especially in the "corners" and "flat edges" of the deck) requiring me to clean it after mowing. The brand new paint surface probably prevented it from collecting early on. After adding the mulch kit and heeling the deck the grass buildup was reduced by half and it only takes me about 5 minutes with a putty knife to clean after each mowing. I think part of the reason it reduced the buildup is that the Gravely mulch kit completely encloses each individual blade in a circular vacuum baffle. With nothing but rounded edges surrounding the blades there's really nowhere for the grass clippings to collect. Plus the mulch blade design inside the vacuum baffles force most of the clippings down and into the cut grass.
I can wholeheartedly recommend a mulch kit, along with heeling the deck, and there should not be any problem with buildup like you thought.
djdicetn
I understand that you were quoting from the gravely manual, I would just like to know what the "certain conditions" are. It would be great if you could find that out! I wouldnt mind betting it has something to do with mulching but thats only a guess. If mower manufacturers really wanted us to heel the deck, they would come like that from the factory!
Heeling the deck may add more to the striping look but as I said, the stripe should be secondary to the cut. I also understand that the grass will, or at least some of it be cut twice. ie, front and back but, what happens between the blades. I would hazard a guess and say you'll increase the risk of a tear rather than a cut, deck build up, choking, clumping etc.
But think about it, if grass is getting cut at the back of the deck, where do those clippings go? They will circulate around each chamber, get sent from the discharge side to the trim side. It already happens with a normal deck setting but if lower in back, its going to add to it. Clippings will be chopped up more which can be a good thing but if there is moisture, you will most likely get a mash and more deck build up which create more problems.
There are thousands upon thousands of lawn cutters out there. I'd bet the amount of guys that heel the deck would be barely registrable as a percentage.
As far as needing a commercial deck to create stripes, or get better ones, thats not necessarily true. Ive seen stripes from JD lawn tractors that are up there with the best of them!
To heel a deck just for a little more stripe seems well, crazy to me! Stick a roller or rubber flap on the back of the deck if its important to you! Remember, some grass types just stripe better also, even some commercial decks stripe better than others.
I went searching on the subject on this forum and came across this
Seems to me you were perfectly happy with the way it cut, or should of been! I cant figure out if you tried with the "heeled" setting or not so, did you? And is what you wrote here what happened? If so, its basically describing what I would expect!
From my research on here, seems you bring up "heeling" quite often. Have you actually done it yourself yet?
That's a very old post by me when I was researching and at that point no...I had not tried it yet(I was just "speculating" on the possibility of buildup). Since then I have added a Gravely OEM mulch kit.....AND....heeled my deck and I am VERY happy with the resulting cut quality improvement(and the complete disappearance of grass clippings:0).
Actually, when I first got my Gravely there was absolutely no grass clipping buildup underneath the deck(just like I stated). After mowing with it more, it began collecting clippings underneath the deck(especially in the "corners" and "flat edges" of the deck) requiring me to clean it after mowing. The brand new paint surface probably prevented it from collecting early on. After adding the mulch kit and heeling the deck the grass buildup was reduced by half and it only takes me about 5 minutes with a putty knife to clean after each mowing. I think part of the reason it reduced the buildup is that the Gravely mulch kit completely encloses each individual blade in a circular vacuum baffle. With nothing but rounded edges surrounding the blades there's really nowhere for the grass clippings to collect. Plus the mulch blade design inside the vacuum baffles force most of the clippings down and into the cut grass.
I can wholeheartedly recommend a mulch kit, along with heeling the deck, and there should not be any problem with buildup like you thought.
#12
M
Micko
Fair enough, it was an older post. I just didnt understand if you had or hadnt actually heeled your deck at that time.
But thing is, you now have your deck heeled AND and mulch kit! Right!
Does the OP have a mulch kit? I dont think so! Mulching might work for you but it certainly wont work for everyone!
Im still struggling with this deck heeling thing on SD decks though. Some walk behind mowers (as far as I know) you change the deck height by putting spacers on the front casters. That will heel the deck if you cant adjust the drive wheels. In some case's, I dont think you can get around heeling. But we're talking about ride ons and I have to be honest, no way am I sold on it and there is no way I would recommend doing it.
Thing is, unless you change the pitch halfway through a mow, you wont really know if the cut has improved or not. Ive been there so many times its not funny! I'd add a mod to my deck, mow, think Ive fixed the issue. Next mow, It wasnt fixed at all. Had I added the mod half way through, I would of seen if there was a difference or not! Just recently I went and did just that on several customers lawns. Mowed half with one type of blade, the other with and different type of blade. It showed exactly if or what differences there were.
If you want to mess around with deck settings etc then thats what you need to do, to get a true idea if things are different or not.
Did you have a chance to talk with Gravely yet?
M
Micko
That's a very old post by me when I was researching and at that point no...I had not tried it yet(I was just "speculating" on the possibility of buildup). Since then I have added a Gravely OEM mulch kit.....AND....heeled my deck and I am VERY happy with the resulting cut quality improvement(and the complete disappearance of grass clippings:0).
Actually, when I first got my Gravely there was absolutely no grass clipping buildup underneath the deck(just like I stated). After mowing with it more, it began collecting clippings underneath the deck(especially in the "corners" and "flat edges" of the deck) requiring me to clean it after mowing. The brand new paint surface probably prevented it from collecting early on. After adding the mulch kit and heeling the deck the grass buildup was reduced by half and it only takes me about 5 minutes with a putty knife to clean after each mowing. I think part of the reason it reduced the buildup is that the Gravely mulch kit completely encloses each individual blade in a circular vacuum baffle. With nothing but rounded edges surrounding the blades there's really nowhere for the grass clippings to collect. Plus the mulch blade design inside the vacuum baffles force most of the clippings down and into the cut grass.
I can wholeheartedly recommend a mulch kit, along with heeling the deck, and there should not be any problem with buildup like you thought.
Fair enough, it was an older post. I just didnt understand if you had or hadnt actually heeled your deck at that time.
But thing is, you now have your deck heeled AND and mulch kit! Right!
Does the OP have a mulch kit? I dont think so! Mulching might work for you but it certainly wont work for everyone!
Im still struggling with this deck heeling thing on SD decks though. Some walk behind mowers (as far as I know) you change the deck height by putting spacers on the front casters. That will heel the deck if you cant adjust the drive wheels. In some case's, I dont think you can get around heeling. But we're talking about ride ons and I have to be honest, no way am I sold on it and there is no way I would recommend doing it.
Thing is, unless you change the pitch halfway through a mow, you wont really know if the cut has improved or not. Ive been there so many times its not funny! I'd add a mod to my deck, mow, think Ive fixed the issue. Next mow, It wasnt fixed at all. Had I added the mod half way through, I would of seen if there was a difference or not! Just recently I went and did just that on several customers lawns. Mowed half with one type of blade, the other with and different type of blade. It showed exactly if or what differences there were.
If you want to mess around with deck settings etc then thats what you need to do, to get a true idea if things are different or not.
Did you have a chance to talk with Gravely yet?
#13
djdicetn
I emailed Ariens and they replied wanting me to call them 8AM-12PM tomorrow or Thursday to discuss my questions(rather than sending me a lengthy email). I'll post what I found out. Actually, to be honest....my Gravely dealer did not recommend that I heel the deck, but I wanted to try it anyway to see what the results were. Even though I'm pretty happy I may do like you said and try changing it halfway through mowing to see what the actual difference is. Again, I may wait to see what Ariens Customer Support advises me to do and find out what some of the detailed "cutting conditions" mentioned in my Owner Manual are. Like everybody, I'm wanting to get the very best cut quality that my ZTR can give.
djdicetn
Fair enough, it was an older post. I just didnt understand if you had or hadnt actually heeled your deck at that time.
But thing is, you now have your deck heeled AND and mulch kit! Right!
Does the OP have a mulch kit? I dont think so! Mulching might work for you but it certainly wont work for everyone!
Im still struggling with this deck heeling thing on SD decks though. Some walk behind mowers (as far as I know) you change the deck height by putting spacers on the front casters. That will heel the deck if you cant adjust the drive wheels. In some case's, I dont think you can get around heeling. But we're talking about ride ons and I have to be honest, no way am I sold on it and there is no way I would recommend doing it.
Thing is, unless you change the pitch halfway through a mow, you wont really know if the cut has improved or not. Ive been there so many times its not funny! I'd add a mod to my deck, mow, think Ive fixed the issue. Next mow, It wasnt fixed at all. Had I added the mod half way through, I would of seen if there was a difference or not! Just recently I went and did just that on several customers lawns. Mowed half with one type of blade, the other with and different type of blade. It showed exactly if or what differences there were.
If you want to mess around with deck settings etc then thats what you need to do, to get a true idea if things are different or not.
Did you have a chance to talk with Gravely yet?
I emailed Ariens and they replied wanting me to call them 8AM-12PM tomorrow or Thursday to discuss my questions(rather than sending me a lengthy email). I'll post what I found out. Actually, to be honest....my Gravely dealer did not recommend that I heel the deck, but I wanted to try it anyway to see what the results were. Even though I'm pretty happy I may do like you said and try changing it halfway through mowing to see what the actual difference is. Again, I may wait to see what Ariens Customer Support advises me to do and find out what some of the detailed "cutting conditions" mentioned in my Owner Manual are. Like everybody, I'm wanting to get the very best cut quality that my ZTR can give.
#14
M
Micko
No worries at all buddy! I understand completely the want or "quest" of the best finish you can possibly get! I have spent countless hours, many dollars and even gone so far as cutting/modifying my deck myself. At one point it was even heeled, not by me but because of an oversight/slackness on someone I wont mention! I believe I now have things as good as I can get them but wow, what a struggle and even now, in certain conditions, Im still not happy. Thing is, the deck just didnt work for me in my area/conditions. Partially my fault as I didnt demo near enough before I bought the machine.
But yeah, an example would be I'd add a turbo baffle, do some cutting one day on a lawn and I'd think great, much better. But the next lawn would look cr@p. The next time that first lawn came around it would look like cr@p again so, any testing was wrong. Thats why, if doing any kind of testing, you should do it on the dame day, same lawn etc. Its the only way to really see if theres any difference! Growth, moisture content in the grass itself, moisture (dew) on the ground, time of day, temperature on the day and even wind will cause different results!
Pitching your deck for testing should be fairly simple, just use tire pressure! Lower the front, increase the back. Even if you put 20psi in the drives, it wont hurt for the sake of 15mins.
Anyway, I'd still like to hear what Gravely has to say about it.
M
Micko
I emailed Ariens and they replied wanting me to call them 8AM-12PM tomorrow or Thursday to discuss my questions(rather than sending me a lengthy email). I'll post what I found out. Actually, to be honest....my Gravely dealer did not recommend that I heel the deck, but I wanted to try it anyway to see what the results were. Even though I'm pretty happy I may do like you said and try changing it halfway through mowing to see what the actual difference is. Again, I may wait to see what Ariens Customer Support advises me to do and find out what some of the detailed "cutting conditions" mentioned in my Owner Manual are. Like everybody, I'm wanting to get the very best cut quality that my ZTR can give.
No worries at all buddy! I understand completely the want or "quest" of the best finish you can possibly get! I have spent countless hours, many dollars and even gone so far as cutting/modifying my deck myself. At one point it was even heeled, not by me but because of an oversight/slackness on someone I wont mention! I believe I now have things as good as I can get them but wow, what a struggle and even now, in certain conditions, Im still not happy. Thing is, the deck just didnt work for me in my area/conditions. Partially my fault as I didnt demo near enough before I bought the machine.
But yeah, an example would be I'd add a turbo baffle, do some cutting one day on a lawn and I'd think great, much better. But the next lawn would look cr@p. The next time that first lawn came around it would look like cr@p again so, any testing was wrong. Thats why, if doing any kind of testing, you should do it on the dame day, same lawn etc. Its the only way to really see if theres any difference! Growth, moisture content in the grass itself, moisture (dew) on the ground, time of day, temperature on the day and even wind will cause different results!
Pitching your deck for testing should be fairly simple, just use tire pressure! Lower the front, increase the back. Even if you put 20psi in the drives, it wont hurt for the sake of 15mins.
Anyway, I'd still like to hear what Gravely has to say about it.
#15
djdicetn
OK, I talked to the Ariens CSR this morning(he actually worked on the R & D team that designed/tested the Gravely X-Factor deck...so I think he knew what he was talking about). The only time they really recommend heeling the deck is if you are cutting Bahia grass(mostly in Texas & Florida). As an aside....I have been trying to get my Gravely to stripe my lawn and I thought that heeling the deck would help. He told me..."maybe" if you were using the stock OEM hi-lift blades and side discharging. I've got a complete Gravely striping kit that consists of a rubber flap mounted to the rear edge of the deck and a hex roller mounted to the frame behind the rear tires. Since I have a mulch kit(vacuum baffles, discharge and mulching blades) he recommended that I set the deck pitch back to the normal front pitch for the best cut quality/mulching results. I have been cutting my grass(mostly fescue with some clover and a little crabgrass:0( at 2.5" and he advised me to raise the deck and cut it at 3" to get the pronounced stripes I am seeking. He said the remaining grass blades after cutting must be tall enough to bend(and stay bent) and that 3" was about the minimum to accomplish that. I always though that cutting my grass at a higher setting that 2.5" would make it look "uncut" when I was finished. But, my father-in-law cuts his 5 acre lawn(pretty decent fescue with very little "weeds") at 4" with a Kubota ZTR and I must admit it looks like a "green carpet" when he's done. The more I learn about this stuff the more I find out I didn't know:0)
I must admit, though, that I have an Obsessive Compulsive Disorder in regard to making my lawn look like a baseball outfield(or at least as good as many of my neighbors that pay $50-$75 a cut:0) I guess my next mission is to get rid of the crabgrass & weeds, re-seed with some preemo Kentucky Fescue seed, fertilize....dethatch and aereate:0)
djdicetn
No worries at all buddy! I understand completely the want or "quest" of the best finish you can possibly get! I have spent countless hours, many dollars and even gone so far as cutting/modifying my deck myself. At one point it was even heeled, not by me but because of an oversight/slackness on someone I wont mention! I believe I now have things as good as I can get them but wow, what a struggle and even now, in certain conditions, Im still not happy. Thing is, the deck just didnt work for me in my area/conditions. Partially my fault as I didnt demo near enough before I bought the machine.
But yeah, an example would be I'd add a turbo baffle, do some cutting one day on a lawn and I'd think great, much better. But the next lawn would look cr@p. The next time that first lawn came around it would look like cr@p again so, any testing was wrong. Thats why, if doing any kind of testing, you should do it on the dame day, same lawn etc. Its the only way to really see if theres any difference! Growth, moisture content in the grass itself, moisture (dew) on the ground, time of day, temperature on the day and even wind will cause different results!
Pitching your deck for testing should be fairly simple, just use tire pressure! Lower the front, increase the back. Even if you put 20psi in the drives, it wont hurt for the sake of 15mins.
Anyway, I'd still like to hear what Gravely has to say about it.
OK, I talked to the Ariens CSR this morning(he actually worked on the R & D team that designed/tested the Gravely X-Factor deck...so I think he knew what he was talking about). The only time they really recommend heeling the deck is if you are cutting Bahia grass(mostly in Texas & Florida). As an aside....I have been trying to get my Gravely to stripe my lawn and I thought that heeling the deck would help. He told me..."maybe" if you were using the stock OEM hi-lift blades and side discharging. I've got a complete Gravely striping kit that consists of a rubber flap mounted to the rear edge of the deck and a hex roller mounted to the frame behind the rear tires. Since I have a mulch kit(vacuum baffles, discharge and mulching blades) he recommended that I set the deck pitch back to the normal front pitch for the best cut quality/mulching results. I have been cutting my grass(mostly fescue with some clover and a little crabgrass:0( at 2.5" and he advised me to raise the deck and cut it at 3" to get the pronounced stripes I am seeking. He said the remaining grass blades after cutting must be tall enough to bend(and stay bent) and that 3" was about the minimum to accomplish that. I always though that cutting my grass at a higher setting that 2.5" would make it look "uncut" when I was finished. But, my father-in-law cuts his 5 acre lawn(pretty decent fescue with very little "weeds") at 4" with a Kubota ZTR and I must admit it looks like a "green carpet" when he's done. The more I learn about this stuff the more I find out I didn't know:0)
I must admit, though, that I have an Obsessive Compulsive Disorder in regard to making my lawn look like a baseball outfield(or at least as good as many of my neighbors that pay $50-$75 a cut:0) I guess my next mission is to get rid of the crabgrass & weeds, re-seed with some preemo Kentucky Fescue seed, fertilize....dethatch and aereate:0)
#16
M
Micko
So there you go, straight from the R&D guy from Gravely No need to heel the deck!
You didn mention you have the stripe kit installed when you said heeling the deck improved the stripes. How could you possibly come to the conclusion that it was heeling that improved the stripes?
I agree with that guy, raise your deck! You'll get more grass blade to catch the light! You'll get a nice finish but it may take a couple of weeks. Let the grass grow up to the deck, dont lower the deck to the grass! Over time, the grass will thicken up and get "trained" to lay that way. The more you run the same lines the quicker the grass will "learn" but you also run the risk of ruts but I would certainly do that for a while to speed up the process. Also, stripe in a way or direction so that the sun is coming from over your shoulder.
Im not even a striping expert but Ive been around long enough to have an idea whats involved. The longer the grass (blade) the greater the chance of good stripes! Simple as that!
I think your possibly listening to the wrong people on here about all this! I wonder how many guys on here intentionally heel the deck on the commercial zt rider! I bet its very few and they probably listened to the same advice you did!
The rep said they recommend heeling the deck for Bahia. Thats fine for a home owner who only mows Bahia. The commercial guy is not doing to mess with a deck just for Bahia when he has to contend with all the other varieties! Bahia is a pita to cut, Ive cut many acres of the stuff. No way would I change the deck just for that! Bahia has a tendency to bunch up in front of the deck with clippings from the previous cut, if the grass was long. If your deck doesnt have an adjustable baffle then sure, I can see where that would be handy heeling the deck. Some decks, maybe even yours you can raise the front baffle which will let those clippings in much better! No need to heel the deck then! But your not cutting Bahia!
My advice would be to listen to the Gravely rep.
As far as I know, you loved the cut initially. Everything youve done so far is to improve the stripes, right? In the end, I believe all you needed to do was raise the deck and use a stripe kit, and have some patience!
M
Micko
OK, I talked to the Ariens CSR this morning(he actually worked on the R & D team that designed/tested the Gravely X-Factor deck...so I think he knew what he was talking about). The only time they really recommend heeling the deck is if you are cutting Bahia grass(mostly in Texas & Florida). As an aside....I have been trying to get my Gravely to stripe my lawn and I thought that heeling the deck would help. He told me..."maybe" if you were using the stock OEM hi-lift blades and side discharging. I've got a complete Gravely striping kit that consists of a rubber flap mounted to the rear edge of the deck and a hex roller mounted to the frame behind the rear tires. Since I have a mulch kit(vacuum baffles, discharge and mulching blades) he recommended that I set the deck pitch back to the normal front pitch for the best cut quality/mulching results. I have been cutting my grass(mostly fescue with some clover and a little crabgrass:0( at 2.5" and he advised me to raise the deck and cut it at 3" to get the pronounced stripes I am seeking. He said the remaining grass blades after cutting must be tall enough to bend(and stay bent) and that 3" was about the minimum to accomplish that. I always though that cutting my grass at a higher setting that 2.5" would make it look "uncut" when I was finished. But, my father-in-law cuts his 5 acre lawn(pretty decent fescue with very little "weeds") at 4" with a Kubota ZTR and I must admit it looks like a "green carpet" when he's done. The more I learn about this stuff the more I find out I didn't know:0)
I must admit, though, that I have an Obsessive Compulsive Disorder in regard to making my lawn look like a baseball outfield(or at least as good as many of my neighbors that pay $50-$75 a cut:0) I guess my next mission is to get rid of the crabgrass & weeds, re-seed with some preemo Kentucky Fescue seed, fertilize....dethatch and aereate:0)
So there you go, straight from the R&D guy from Gravely No need to heel the deck!
You didn mention you have the stripe kit installed when you said heeling the deck improved the stripes. How could you possibly come to the conclusion that it was heeling that improved the stripes?
I agree with that guy, raise your deck! You'll get more grass blade to catch the light! You'll get a nice finish but it may take a couple of weeks. Let the grass grow up to the deck, dont lower the deck to the grass! Over time, the grass will thicken up and get "trained" to lay that way. The more you run the same lines the quicker the grass will "learn" but you also run the risk of ruts but I would certainly do that for a while to speed up the process. Also, stripe in a way or direction so that the sun is coming from over your shoulder.
Im not even a striping expert but Ive been around long enough to have an idea whats involved. The longer the grass (blade) the greater the chance of good stripes! Simple as that!
I think your possibly listening to the wrong people on here about all this! I wonder how many guys on here intentionally heel the deck on the commercial zt rider! I bet its very few and they probably listened to the same advice you did!
The rep said they recommend heeling the deck for Bahia. Thats fine for a home owner who only mows Bahia. The commercial guy is not doing to mess with a deck just for Bahia when he has to contend with all the other varieties! Bahia is a pita to cut, Ive cut many acres of the stuff. No way would I change the deck just for that! Bahia has a tendency to bunch up in front of the deck with clippings from the previous cut, if the grass was long. If your deck doesnt have an adjustable baffle then sure, I can see where that would be handy heeling the deck. Some decks, maybe even yours you can raise the front baffle which will let those clippings in much better! No need to heel the deck then! But your not cutting Bahia!
My advice would be to listen to the Gravely rep.
As far as I know, you loved the cut initially. Everything youve done so far is to improve the stripes, right? In the end, I believe all you needed to do was raise the deck and use a stripe kit, and have some patience!
#17
Carscw
Carscw
You are right there is no need to heel the deck. I do it because it gives a better cut at a faster speed and it helps lay the grass down. He did not get the wrong advice on here. He learned how others do things. I have been doing lawn care for 30 years and told him what works best for me after years of doing many set ups.
My best stripes come from a grass height of 2 inches.
And don't keep mowing the same way every time you mow. You do not want to train the grass to lay down only one way.
And forget the sun it does not stay in the same place all day.
Sometimes people are like a horse with blinders on can only see what's in front of them.
Just because two people say to do things a different way does not make one right and the other wrong.
My best stripes come from a grass height of 2 inches.
And don't keep mowing the same way every time you mow. You do not want to train the grass to lay down only one way.
And forget the sun it does not stay in the same place all day.
Sometimes people are like a horse with blinders on can only see what's in front of them.
Just because two people say to do things a different way does not make one right and the other wrong.
#18
M
Micko
Could you please give me some links to photos of your work. Ive seen a couple already, mainly using lawn tractors to mow over grown yards. But Im new here so no doubt Ive missed your good stuff!
Ok, your best strips come from cutting at 2". What machines are you using and what type of grass? Love to see some pics!
Yes, mowing in the same direction can or will cause ruts! I did say that! But to do it a couple of times to get started shouldnt hurt anything unless the ground is soft! But really, why not train the grass to lay one or 2 ways? What harm does that cause? None! But yes, mowing the same lines will rut, and thats the only problem you'd have. So yes, you should mix it up!
Not taking the sun into consideration is just, wrong! We're not talking ball parks here where they use reel mowers, were talking rotaries on normal yards. Everyone knows, for the the best stripe effect, you take the sun into account, if possible. Its the sun reflecting off the grass after all that shows the stripe at its best. If you want the best effect, use it to your advantage! The sun does move, east / west right. Well if you can mow in an east west direction one stripe will look "white" in the morning, in the afternoon it will be the green one! Actually, if your looking into the sun the stripe might not even show up!
There are exceptions to the rule like what time of year so mow in 4 directions or what ever!
No blinders here! Im all for experimentation and getting other ideas but any testing of that idea needs to be done in as controlled environment as possible. ie, mow half, change, mow other half on the same day otherwise you have nothing to go off!
Yes, people doing things differently doesnt make one right and the other wrong, but if the vast majority of people are doing it one way, even the manufactures of these machine, you'd think theres something to that.
Im happy for you that heeling the deck has worked for you but people are going to read that, go out to the machines and screw things up. If you mention heeling, you should also mention that you dont actually need to adjust the deck but can simple try it but messing with tire pressure. Anyone with the pressure gauge and a pump can do that easily! You should also mention that any testing should be done all on the same day and on the same grass!
At the end of the day djdicetn just wanted better stripes. Heeling the deck may help a little but he would of been better off leaving the deck alone (he was happy with the cut as far as I know) and sticking a stripe kit on it, raise the deck and thats about it. Sure, mess with baffles, blades etc but thats about all that should be needed.
Apologies to djdicetn. I dont mean to single you out, just using you as an example!
If anyone wants to know about stripes, here is a cut n paste from Scags website. Id say it pretty much confirms what Ive said about striping?403 Forbidden Its all the info you need!
IT'S ALL ABOUT DIRECTION!
lawn stripe - direction causes stripe effectThe direction that the grass is bent determines the "light" or "dark" colored stripe. When the blades of grass are bent away from you, the grass appears lighter in color because the light is reflecting off of the wide, lengthy part of the blade. When the blades of grass are bent towards you, the grass appears darker as you are looking more of the tips of the blades (a smaller reflective surface) and the shadows under the grass. So cutting a lawn in an opposing pattern (up/down, right/left, north/south, east/west etc) provides the most contrasting stripe effect. Interestingly, as the "color" of the stripe is dependant upon what direction you are looking at it from, a "light" colored stripe will appear "dark" if you view it from the opposing direction.
LAWN STRIPE INTENSITY
The easiest way to intensify the stripe is to bend the grass farther. The best way to do that is to physically contact it with a roller and press it to the ground. The Scag Tiger Striper does exactly that. In fact, it even uses spring force to bend the grass over. It is much more effective than other systems that simply glide a roller across the tips of the grass. Stripe intensity can also be affected by the length of cut. Cutting the grass shorter will normally lessen the stripe as the shorter grass blade will not bend over as far and therefore reflects less light. A longer cut will normally enhance the striping pattern. Even a small amount can make a noticeable difference. Going from 2" to 2.5" or from 3 " to 3.5" can make a difference in the lawn stripe pattern intensity.
Grass types are also a factor in striping. Certain breeds of grass will bend easier and can provide a better stripe pattern. Warm season grasses (found in the southern regions of the United States) are typically more difficult to stripe as they are more rigid and harder to bend.
The stripe is also affected by the position of the sun. Stripe patterns may seem more intense at various times of the day and in different light levels. When the sun is behind you, you will see a more intense stripe pattern.
M
Micko
You are right there is no need to heel the deck. I do it because it gives a better cut at a faster speed and it helps lay the grass down. He did not get the wrong advice on here. He learned how others do things. I have been doing lawn care for 30 years and told him what works best for me after years of doing many set ups.
My best stripes come from a grass height of 2 inches.
And don't keep mowing the same way every time you mow. You do not want to train the grass to lay down only one way.
And forget the sun it does not stay in the same place all day.
Sometimes people are like a horse with blinders on can only see what's in front of them.
Just because two people say to do things a different way does not make one right and the other wrong.
Could you please give me some links to photos of your work. Ive seen a couple already, mainly using lawn tractors to mow over grown yards. But Im new here so no doubt Ive missed your good stuff!
Ok, your best strips come from cutting at 2". What machines are you using and what type of grass? Love to see some pics!
Yes, mowing in the same direction can or will cause ruts! I did say that! But to do it a couple of times to get started shouldnt hurt anything unless the ground is soft! But really, why not train the grass to lay one or 2 ways? What harm does that cause? None! But yes, mowing the same lines will rut, and thats the only problem you'd have. So yes, you should mix it up!
Not taking the sun into consideration is just, wrong! We're not talking ball parks here where they use reel mowers, were talking rotaries on normal yards. Everyone knows, for the the best stripe effect, you take the sun into account, if possible. Its the sun reflecting off the grass after all that shows the stripe at its best. If you want the best effect, use it to your advantage! The sun does move, east / west right. Well if you can mow in an east west direction one stripe will look "white" in the morning, in the afternoon it will be the green one! Actually, if your looking into the sun the stripe might not even show up!
There are exceptions to the rule like what time of year so mow in 4 directions or what ever!
No blinders here! Im all for experimentation and getting other ideas but any testing of that idea needs to be done in as controlled environment as possible. ie, mow half, change, mow other half on the same day otherwise you have nothing to go off!
Yes, people doing things differently doesnt make one right and the other wrong, but if the vast majority of people are doing it one way, even the manufactures of these machine, you'd think theres something to that.
Im happy for you that heeling the deck has worked for you but people are going to read that, go out to the machines and screw things up. If you mention heeling, you should also mention that you dont actually need to adjust the deck but can simple try it but messing with tire pressure. Anyone with the pressure gauge and a pump can do that easily! You should also mention that any testing should be done all on the same day and on the same grass!
At the end of the day djdicetn just wanted better stripes. Heeling the deck may help a little but he would of been better off leaving the deck alone (he was happy with the cut as far as I know) and sticking a stripe kit on it, raise the deck and thats about it. Sure, mess with baffles, blades etc but thats about all that should be needed.
Apologies to djdicetn. I dont mean to single you out, just using you as an example!
If anyone wants to know about stripes, here is a cut n paste from Scags website. Id say it pretty much confirms what Ive said about striping?403 Forbidden Its all the info you need!
IT'S ALL ABOUT DIRECTION!
lawn stripe - direction causes stripe effectThe direction that the grass is bent determines the "light" or "dark" colored stripe. When the blades of grass are bent away from you, the grass appears lighter in color because the light is reflecting off of the wide, lengthy part of the blade. When the blades of grass are bent towards you, the grass appears darker as you are looking more of the tips of the blades (a smaller reflective surface) and the shadows under the grass. So cutting a lawn in an opposing pattern (up/down, right/left, north/south, east/west etc) provides the most contrasting stripe effect. Interestingly, as the "color" of the stripe is dependant upon what direction you are looking at it from, a "light" colored stripe will appear "dark" if you view it from the opposing direction.
LAWN STRIPE INTENSITY
The easiest way to intensify the stripe is to bend the grass farther. The best way to do that is to physically contact it with a roller and press it to the ground. The Scag Tiger Striper does exactly that. In fact, it even uses spring force to bend the grass over. It is much more effective than other systems that simply glide a roller across the tips of the grass. Stripe intensity can also be affected by the length of cut. Cutting the grass shorter will normally lessen the stripe as the shorter grass blade will not bend over as far and therefore reflects less light. A longer cut will normally enhance the striping pattern. Even a small amount can make a noticeable difference. Going from 2" to 2.5" or from 3 " to 3.5" can make a difference in the lawn stripe pattern intensity.
Grass types are also a factor in striping. Certain breeds of grass will bend easier and can provide a better stripe pattern. Warm season grasses (found in the southern regions of the United States) are typically more difficult to stripe as they are more rigid and harder to bend.
The stripe is also affected by the position of the sun. Stripe patterns may seem more intense at various times of the day and in different light levels. When the sun is behind you, you will see a more intense stripe pattern.
#19
Carscw
That's good that you can read up on this.
Once you stripe a lawn the light and dark stripes will be there no matter where the sun is. They are even there at night.
You can read all you want about what the manufacturer tells you. They all claim to know best.
You might no know anyone that heels the deck but around here that's how we do it.
Even on the golf course we heeled the decks on the toro grounds master. That is where I learned to do it.
There are some brand mowers that the manual will tell you how to heel the deck.
People have been doing it for years and many on here have tried it and stayed with it.
I have plenty of pics from a few years ago.
When you can cut 4 foot tall weeds and stripe it let me know.
Carscw
Could you please give me some links to photos of your work. Ive seen a couple already, mainly using lawn tractors to mow over grown yards. But Im new here so no doubt Ive missed your good stuff! Ok, your best strips come from cutting at 2". What machines are you using and what type of grass? Love to see some pics! Yes, mowing in the same direction can or will cause ruts! I did say that! But to do it a couple of times to get started shouldnt hurt anything unless the ground is soft! But really, why not train the grass to lay one or 2 ways? What harm does that cause? None! But yes, mowing the same lines will rut, and thats the only problem you'd have. So yes, you should mix it up! Not taking the sun into consideration is just, wrong! We're not talking ball parks here where they use reel mowers, were talking rotaries on normal yards. Everyone knows, for the the best stripe effect, you take the sun into account, if possible. Its the sun reflecting off the grass after all that shows the stripe at its best. If you want the best effect, use it to your advantage! The sun does move, east / west right. Well if you can mow in an east west direction one stripe will look "white" in the morning, in the afternoon it will be the green one! Actually, if your looking into the sun the stripe might not even show up! There are exceptions to the rule like what time of year so mow in 4 directions or what ever! No blinders here! Im all for experimentation and getting other ideas but any testing of that idea needs to be done in as controlled environment as possible. ie, mow half, change, mow other half on the same day otherwise you have nothing to go off! Yes, people doing things differently doesnt make one right and the other wrong, but if the vast majority of people are doing it one way, even the manufactures of these machine, you'd think theres something to that. Im happy for you that heeling the deck has worked for you but people are going to read that, go out to the machines and screw things up. If you mention heeling, you should also mention that you dont actually need to adjust the deck but can simple try it but messing with tire pressure. Anyone with the pressure gauge and a pump can do that easily! You should also mention that any testing should be done all on the same day and on the same grass! At the end of the day djdicetn just wanted better stripes. Heeling the deck may help a little but he would of been better off leaving the deck alone (he was happy with the cut as far as I know) and sticking a stripe kit on it, raise the deck and thats about it. Sure, mess with baffles, blades etc but thats about all that should be needed. Apologies to djdicetn. I dont mean to single you out, just using you as an example! If anyone wants to know about stripes, here is a cut n paste from Scags website. Id say it pretty much confirms what Ive said about striping?403 Forbidden Its all the info you need! IT'S ALL ABOUT DIRECTION! lawn stripe - direction causes stripe effectThe direction that the grass is bent determines the "light" or "dark" colored stripe. When the blades of grass are bent away from you, the grass appears lighter in color because the light is reflecting off of the wide, lengthy part of the blade. When the blades of grass are bent towards you, the grass appears darker as you are looking more of the tips of the blades (a smaller reflective surface) and the shadows under the grass. So cutting a lawn in an opposing pattern (up/down, right/left, north/south, east/west etc) provides the most contrasting stripe effect. Interestingly, as the "color" of the stripe is dependant upon what direction you are looking at it from, a "light" colored stripe will appear "dark" if you view it from the opposing direction. LAWN STRIPE INTENSITY The easiest way to intensify the stripe is to bend the grass farther. The best way to do that is to physically contact it with a roller and press it to the ground. The Scag Tiger Striper does exactly that. In fact, it even uses spring force to bend the grass over. It is much more effective than other systems that simply glide a roller across the tips of the grass. Stripe intensity can also be affected by the length of cut. Cutting the grass shorter will normally lessen the stripe as the shorter grass blade will not bend over as far and therefore reflects less light. A longer cut will normally enhance the striping pattern. Even a small amount can make a noticeable difference. Going from 2" to 2.5" or from 3 " to 3.5" can make a difference in the lawn stripe pattern intensity. Grass types are also a factor in striping. Certain breeds of grass will bend easier and can provide a better stripe pattern. Warm season grasses (found in the southern regions of the United States) are typically more difficult to stripe as they are more rigid and harder to bend. The stripe is also affected by the position of the sun. Stripe patterns may seem more intense at various times of the day and in different light levels. When the sun is behind you, you will see a more intense stripe pattern.
That's good that you can read up on this.
Once you stripe a lawn the light and dark stripes will be there no matter where the sun is. They are even there at night.
You can read all you want about what the manufacturer tells you. They all claim to know best.
You might no know anyone that heels the deck but around here that's how we do it.
Even on the golf course we heeled the decks on the toro grounds master. That is where I learned to do it.
There are some brand mowers that the manual will tell you how to heel the deck.
People have been doing it for years and many on here have tried it and stayed with it.
I have plenty of pics from a few years ago.
When you can cut 4 foot tall weeds and stripe it let me know.
#20
Carscw
Carscw
Snapper pro walk behind.
Heeled deck no kit
Gator blades
Heeled deck no kit
Gator blades
Attachments
#21
M
Micko
Now now, no need for that! I obviously wrote all that out before adding the link etc. Sometimes its good to have something to back up what you already know besides, they explained it much better than I did! Now, if anyone searches on here about striping, they can get real facts!
Stripes are there no matter what time of day, yes, your correct but why is that? It because the grass is bent! Which line is green will depend on which way your looking at it at a time of day! If the suns behind you, the stripe will stand out more, or are you disagreeing with me on that?
Your lawns look very nice, no doubt about that but which ones look the best? Answer, the ones with the sun behind you when you took the pic! The shade from trees, the photographer etc is a dead give away!
I bet the ones that are in complete shade (which does negate the sun to a certain extent) would stand out much more had the sun been out. They do look good all the same I'll give you that!!
I have no doubt some people heel the deck, like yourself but have you actually or anyone, really tested it on the same day?
Look, its well worth trying out these things no doubt but you have home owners get on here and dont know any better. Its on the internet, it must be true! I can imagine dealers scratching there heads thinking, WTF's going on with these people wanting these adjustments!
As far as the cut down from 4' (feet mind you) to whats in that pic, I would like to see the before pic! Im going to call a big BS on that and I'll tell you why! I dont know of ANY grass that puts out 4' leaf without the stolon or stem right behind it. What is that grass? St Aug or something?
If that was 4 feet as you say, it would be scalped to hell but beyond that, St Aug or any lawn grass getting 4' tall is complete BS! 4 feet, please!!!!
Wanna see 4', actually, more like 6' in places and not spindly stuff but thick, dense matted stuff. No stripes here but this is what cutting truly long grass looks like..
But ok, lets say you messed up and ment this pic http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/attac...l-deck-leveling-question-image-1121288544-jpg
I could certainly do as well as that without heeling the deck! Just standard deck setting! Unfortunately I dont have pics to prove it so theres a way to have a go back!! But lets look at your pic. I see a lot of green there. If that was truly all 4' tall as you claim then it would be scalped. I dont call a lawn X high because of a few weeds. Its much harder to cut super thick grass than tall spindly stuff!
But Ive included before and after pic of a lawn below. This grass wasnt 4', more average 8" but like 15"+ in places, super thick, damp to wet. You can see the rain in the distance! Yep, clippings on top but thats the way it is sometimes. But its not about that, its about creating stripes out of cr@p! I think it was successful if your into it. Again, deck set at spec, normal blades etc. It was double cut though as Im sure your 4' lawn was at least!
But anyway, getting back to the sun etc, take these pics below. One will have stripes, the other wont. That is purely because of the sun! There are technically stripes there, you just cant see them!
These 2 pics are taken within minutes of each other. I had done NOTHING to the deck. In fact, I dont even try and get stripes! This lawn was cut at 2 and quarter inches!
But look, none of this is about whos stripe is bigger or better. I could careless about stripes, they are purely accidental and I NEVER said I was an expert on them. In fact, I said I wasnt. Its about facts. And as far as Im concerned, there is no real reason to heel a deck. Sure, give it a try but try it on the same day as with a spec deck on the same lawn. Otherwise its pointless. You just wont know for sure if it makes a difference or not.
But people need to be aware of the downsides. It WILL put more draw on the engine, belts, pulleys and clutch. Friction! The grass is rubbing on the blades the entire time from front to back. Thats friction!
You'll say, BS to that I know but, its true and home owners or just people in general need to know that!
M
Micko
That's good that you can read up on this.
Once you stripe a lawn the light and dark stripes will be there no matter where the sun is. They are even there at night.
You can read all you want about what the manufacturer tells you. They all claim to know best.
You might no know anyone that heels the deck but around here that's how we do it.
Even on the golf course we heeled the decks on the toro grounds master. That is where I learned to do it.
There are some brand mowers that the manual will tell you how to heel the deck.
People have been doing it for years and many on here have tried it and stayed with it.
I have plenty of pics from a few years ago.
When you can cut 4 foot tall weeds and stripe it let me know.
View attachment 21875
Now now, no need for that! I obviously wrote all that out before adding the link etc. Sometimes its good to have something to back up what you already know besides, they explained it much better than I did! Now, if anyone searches on here about striping, they can get real facts!
Stripes are there no matter what time of day, yes, your correct but why is that? It because the grass is bent! Which line is green will depend on which way your looking at it at a time of day! If the suns behind you, the stripe will stand out more, or are you disagreeing with me on that?
Your lawns look very nice, no doubt about that but which ones look the best? Answer, the ones with the sun behind you when you took the pic! The shade from trees, the photographer etc is a dead give away!
I bet the ones that are in complete shade (which does negate the sun to a certain extent) would stand out much more had the sun been out. They do look good all the same I'll give you that!!
I have no doubt some people heel the deck, like yourself but have you actually or anyone, really tested it on the same day?
Look, its well worth trying out these things no doubt but you have home owners get on here and dont know any better. Its on the internet, it must be true! I can imagine dealers scratching there heads thinking, WTF's going on with these people wanting these adjustments!
As far as the cut down from 4' (feet mind you) to whats in that pic, I would like to see the before pic! Im going to call a big BS on that and I'll tell you why! I dont know of ANY grass that puts out 4' leaf without the stolon or stem right behind it. What is that grass? St Aug or something?
If that was 4 feet as you say, it would be scalped to hell but beyond that, St Aug or any lawn grass getting 4' tall is complete BS! 4 feet, please!!!!
Wanna see 4', actually, more like 6' in places and not spindly stuff but thick, dense matted stuff. No stripes here but this is what cutting truly long grass looks like..
But ok, lets say you messed up and ment this pic http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/attac...l-deck-leveling-question-image-1121288544-jpg
I could certainly do as well as that without heeling the deck! Just standard deck setting! Unfortunately I dont have pics to prove it so theres a way to have a go back!! But lets look at your pic. I see a lot of green there. If that was truly all 4' tall as you claim then it would be scalped. I dont call a lawn X high because of a few weeds. Its much harder to cut super thick grass than tall spindly stuff!
But Ive included before and after pic of a lawn below. This grass wasnt 4', more average 8" but like 15"+ in places, super thick, damp to wet. You can see the rain in the distance! Yep, clippings on top but thats the way it is sometimes. But its not about that, its about creating stripes out of cr@p! I think it was successful if your into it. Again, deck set at spec, normal blades etc. It was double cut though as Im sure your 4' lawn was at least!
But anyway, getting back to the sun etc, take these pics below. One will have stripes, the other wont. That is purely because of the sun! There are technically stripes there, you just cant see them!
These 2 pics are taken within minutes of each other. I had done NOTHING to the deck. In fact, I dont even try and get stripes! This lawn was cut at 2 and quarter inches!
But look, none of this is about whos stripe is bigger or better. I could careless about stripes, they are purely accidental and I NEVER said I was an expert on them. In fact, I said I wasnt. Its about facts. And as far as Im concerned, there is no real reason to heel a deck. Sure, give it a try but try it on the same day as with a spec deck on the same lawn. Otherwise its pointless. You just wont know for sure if it makes a difference or not.
But people need to be aware of the downsides. It WILL put more draw on the engine, belts, pulleys and clutch. Friction! The grass is rubbing on the blades the entire time from front to back. Thats friction!
You'll say, BS to that I know but, its true and home owners or just people in general need to know that!
#22
djdicetn
djdicetn
Just so I'm clear about the "sequence of events"....before I added the stripe kit I heeled the deck and I will post a picture of the results above(I don't have a "before" picture for comparison, so you'll have to believe me when I say the "mild stripes" in the picture weren't there before I heeled the deck). I added the mulch kit first and mowed with the deck as delivered and then with it heeled. IMHO, the cut quality and buildup underneath the deck both improved after heeling the deck. Now I've added the stripe kit and I'm trying to tweak everything to get more pronounced stripes(I haven't got any pics since adding the stripe kit...but cutting at 2.5" the difference after adding the kit wasn't "drastic" enough for me). I'm confident that following the advice given by Gravely will get me the results I am seeking. When I "get it right" I'll be posting some pictures in the "Striping, Gotta Love It" thread.So there you go, straight from the R&D guy from Gravely No need to heel the deck!
You didn mention you have the stripe kit installed when you said heeling the deck improved the stripes. How could you possibly come to the conclusion that it was heeling that improved the stripes?
I agree with that guy, raise your deck! You'll get more grass blade to catch the light! You'll get a nice finish but it may take a couple of weeks. Let the grass grow up to the deck, dont lower the deck to the grass! Over time, the grass will thicken up and get "trained" to lay that way. The more you run the same lines the quicker the grass will "learn" but you also run the risk of ruts but I would certainly do that for a while to speed up the process. Also, stripe in a way or direction so that the sun is coming from over your shoulder.
Im not even a striping expert but Ive been around long enough to have an idea whats involved. The longer the grass (blade) the greater the chance of good stripes! Simple as that!
I think your possibly listening to the wrong people on here about all this! I wonder how many guys on here intentionally heel the deck on the commercial zt rider! I bet its very few and they probably listened to the same advice you did!
The rep said they recommend heeling the deck for Bahia. Thats fine for a home owner who only mows Bahia. The commercial guy is not doing to mess with a deck just for Bahia when he has to contend with all the other varieties! Bahia is a pita to cut, Ive cut many acres of the stuff. No way would I change the deck just for that! Bahia has a tendency to bunch up in front of the deck with clippings from the previous cut, if the grass was long. If your deck doesnt have an adjustable baffle then sure, I can see where that would be handy heeling the deck. Some decks, maybe even yours you can raise the front baffle which will let those clippings in much better! No need to heel the deck then! But your not cutting Bahia!
My advice would be to listen to the Gravely rep.
As far as I know, you loved the cut initially. Everything youve done so far is to improve the stripes, right? In the end, I believe all you needed to do was raise the deck and use a stripe kit, and have some patience!
#23
M
Micko
Didnt Gravely just confirm what Ive been saying? Normal pitch and something about side discharging?
You need to run the same lines. Ok, mix up north south/east west but drive the same lines each time. I bet even Carscw does that to train the grass.
If you mow in one direction one week it will bend over right, if you mow in the opposite direction the next week it will bend the other way. You dont want that!
If you want more pronounced stripe, mow the same direction, and try and keep the sun at your back as much as you can!
Anyway, Ive spent enough time on all this and Im done with it. Just do what makes you happy!
M
Micko
View attachment 21901
Just so I'm clear about the "sequence of events"....before I added the stripe kit I heeled the deck and I will post a picture of the results above(I don't have a "before" picture for comparison, so you'll have to believe me when I say the "mild stripes" in the picture weren't there before I heeled the deck). I added the mulch kit first and mowed with the deck as delivered and then with it heeled. IMHO, the cut quality and buildup underneath the deck both improved after heeling the deck. Now I've added the stripe kit and I'm trying to tweak everything to get more pronounced stripes(I haven't got any pics since adding the stripe kit...but cutting at 2.5" the difference after adding the kit wasn't "drastic" enough for me). I'm confident that following the advice given by Gravely will get me the results I am seeking. When I "get it right" I'll be posting some pictures in the "Striping, Gotta Love It" thread.
Didnt Gravely just confirm what Ive been saying? Normal pitch and something about side discharging?
You need to run the same lines. Ok, mix up north south/east west but drive the same lines each time. I bet even Carscw does that to train the grass.
If you mow in one direction one week it will bend over right, if you mow in the opposite direction the next week it will bend the other way. You dont want that!
If you want more pronounced stripe, mow the same direction, and try and keep the sun at your back as much as you can!
Anyway, Ive spent enough time on all this and Im done with it. Just do what makes you happy!
#24
Fish
Fish
I remember back when I used to mow lawns for a living and going to college, I didn't get home until after dark...Unless there was a drought.
Some of our local experts seem to post here everyday, 24/7, how is that? I am old and just sell crap on e-bay, but what about all of these , full on, in your face, every post, every thread, experts?????
How can they post here all day and fight with everyone, and still be the expert that they claim to be????
Especially when they can give convincing advice on every 12 thousand dollar ztr, when they only own an old Lawnboy, or Toro?
Some of our local experts seem to post here everyday, 24/7, how is that? I am old and just sell crap on e-bay, but what about all of these , full on, in your face, every post, every thread, experts?????
How can they post here all day and fight with everyone, and still be the expert that they claim to be????
Especially when they can give convincing advice on every 12 thousand dollar ztr, when they only own an old Lawnboy, or Toro?
#25
Fish
Fish
As I recall, running a mower business took 60 plus hours s week in the spring, I am sure that the actual labor has not gotten easier, but the bullchit/internet factor has taken over.........
#26
Carscw
And you are the proof that internet bullchit as Taken over.
Carscw
As I recall, running a mower business took 60 plus hours s week in the spring, I am sure that the actual labor has not gotten easier, but the bullchit/internet factor has taken over.........
And you are the proof that internet bullchit as Taken over.
#27
Fish
Indeed!!!! I admit that I'm online all day, as I just sell on E-Bay. Other posters claim to be full time Lawn Care Proffessionals, but yet they post here all day and all night....
I remember when I mowed grass for a living, I worked from sunup to sundown in the spring when the grass is growing the best.
But you are here, ALL of the time, sunup, sundown, and giving chitty advice!!!! How is that?
Fish
And you are the proof that internet bullchit as Taken over.
Indeed!!!! I admit that I'm online all day, as I just sell on E-Bay. Other posters claim to be full time Lawn Care Proffessionals, but yet they post here all day and all night....
I remember when I mowed grass for a living, I worked from sunup to sundown in the spring when the grass is growing the best.
But you are here, ALL of the time, sunup, sundown, and giving chitty advice!!!! How is that?
#28
Carscw
Carscw
Indeed!!!! I admit that I'm online all day, as I just sell on E-Bay. Other posters claim to be full time Lawn Care Proffessionals, but yet they post here all day and all night.... I remember when I mowed grass for a living, I worked from sunup to sundown in the spring when the grass is growing the best. But you are here, ALL of the time, sunup, sundown, and giving chitty advice!!!! How is that?[/QUOTE
I know you never hear the word smart.
But I have a smart phone.
What is a smart phone you ask?
It is a hand held device that I can make phone calls with. And get this I can also use the internet to get on here in between jobs.
Anyone can do what you do. Look up a model number on yahoo answers.
I bet I own more mowers then you have worked on.
You can only give advise on things you find in the trouble shooting guide.
#29
M
MPW1216
M
MPW1216
Gentlemen,
Have to say this has been an entertaining post! :confused2: I find it amusing regardless of your personal "internet" device (i.e. PC, laptop, smart phone, etc) that anyone has the time or the gumption to bicker like a bunch of 12 year olds. Why don't we put our big boy pants on and discuss what we are all intersted in (i.e. legitimate lawn mower discussion) and leave the "I know more than you" banter to ourselves. I find it comical that your lives are so simple that you allow yourself to get worked up and in a pissing match over the likes of whether a healed deck is helpful or not! Try getting a life!
Don't mean to offend anyone here but had to comment over how silly this post has gotten and wanted to remind you all that you are adults.... so please act like it!
Cheers to future posts and some civility! :thumbsup:
MPW
Have to say this has been an entertaining post! :confused2: I find it amusing regardless of your personal "internet" device (i.e. PC, laptop, smart phone, etc) that anyone has the time or the gumption to bicker like a bunch of 12 year olds. Why don't we put our big boy pants on and discuss what we are all intersted in (i.e. legitimate lawn mower discussion) and leave the "I know more than you" banter to ourselves. I find it comical that your lives are so simple that you allow yourself to get worked up and in a pissing match over the likes of whether a healed deck is helpful or not! Try getting a life!
Don't mean to offend anyone here but had to comment over how silly this post has gotten and wanted to remind you all that you are adults.... so please act like it!
Cheers to future posts and some civility! :thumbsup:
MPW
#30
T
timlab55
T
timlab55
Besides the deck leveling and things, I trust the dealership where I purchased my ZTR. However, upon further dealing with this dealership, it's very unclear about how to level the deck. For example. I asked the service person, if I want to raise the deck, which two screws do I turn. His reply was, you go from back left to front right. If you want to lower the deck you do the same. It was very confusion to me, so I come to ask you guys who have been doing this for years. To raise the front of the deck I would assume you would turn the front screws and to raise the back of the deck you would do the back screws. Any words of wisdom on this?
Thanks.
Thanks.
#31
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Timlab, I suggest that you start a new thread with your questions. This thread is nearly 10 years old and many of these members are no longer around. When you start a new thread remember to include the following.
1. All model and serial numbers for you unit.
2. What was your original problem?
3. What you have done to resolve your problem?
4. What type of help are you looking for?
Remember we a hundreds if not thousands of miles away, not standing next to for, so you you need to paint us the best picture you can, which will help us help you.
1. All model and serial numbers for you unit.
2. What was your original problem?
3. What you have done to resolve your problem?
4. What type of help are you looking for?
Remember we a hundreds if not thousands of miles away, not standing next to for, so you you need to paint us the best picture you can, which will help us help you.