Export thread

Shock mount in front of spark plugs so that once you break the plugs loose you can't use a socket to get them all the way out. After 2 turns you can barely get the socket off and finger the plugs out. If they aren't tight. I'll bet the engineers used to work for Chrysler.

Now you know we must be trained with magical powers before being allowed to work on equipment.

I've seen some crazy designs on Kubota mowers, this looks like one of them

Engine is a purchased part. Engineer designing the frame given a “shrink wrap” CAD model for the engine, with little to no detail as to what parts are what. May have been told to reuse a frame from another product. Parts arrive on the assembly floor, problem found. Management says “ship it”.

I guess the engineers were too stupid or busy to realize that nearly all v twins have plugs in about the same place. Since they don't do maint i guess not their problem. Of course i have seen stupider

Or could had supervisor like I once had where he do something to a machine I was working that I told him would destroy it. His first order was do it because I said so. Well after it destroy the $2000 programmable calculator he turns to and "you knew better but you did anyways" then tried billing me for the damages. He never got paid as it was on him.

StarTech said:

Or could had supervisor like I once had where he do something to a machine I was working that I told him would destroy it. His first order was do it because I said so. Well after it destroy the $2000 programmable calculator he turns to and "you knew better but you did anyways" then tried billing me for the damages. He never got paid as it was on him.

Click to expand...

I used to keep a hand written daily diary when I was told to do anything I thought was against my better judgment - just whip it out when things went south - always came to my rescue when finger pointing started after failure- no one else had anything to fall back on

Hammermechanicman said:

Shock mount in front of spark plugs so that once you break the plugs loose you can't use a socket to get them all the way out. After 2 turns you can barely get the socket off and finger the plugs out. If they aren't tight. I'll bet the engineers used to work for Chrysler.

Click to expand...

Good grief!

^That^ reminds me of the bottom-most spark in our boats Mercury 150 4-stroke outboard AND a little 2500W generator we keep handy for outages.

The tool kit for each has a 3” to 4” length of 3/8” fuel hose that I stick over the top end of the plug and then use to reverse thread the plug until I feel (and often hear) the threads align. Then, that length of fuel hose allows me to make certain I do not cross thread the plug threading it back into place and before re-tightening it with a socket. (Also great for getting the plug out after I’ve loosened it)

Man, I look at your photo and just think, Good Grief!

Hammermechanicman said:

View attachment 63036
Shock mount in front of spark plugs so that once you break the plugs loose you can't use a socket to get them all the way out. After 2 turns you can barely get the socket off and finger the plugs out. If they aren't tight. I'll bet the engineers used to work for Chrysler.

Click to expand...

So true. Then if they ever tweak something enough to get out pretty darn good, they will change the model number and make a "new' one and screw this up again.
BUT- that is why they put the 3/4 hex on the end of spark plug socket though. Lol
I had a 67 GTO with 400 in it that I had to use the 13/16 socket and a boxed in wrench on end for number 7 because steering shaft was so close and in line of sight so you couldn't use straight extension.

Had a 1970 dodge tradesman van with a 440 in it to change the back 2 plugs you had to unbolt the motor mounts and jack up the engine about 3 inches and it was still a PITA.

21st century engineering for ya. You should see what we're dealing with in the automotive world. The newer the vehicle, the more infuriating the engineering. Sad part is, some of it is as simple as maybe installing a bolt so that it can be removed without removing the transmission while it's on the assembly line.

I call this " A$$hole engineering". Been seeing a lot of this in the OPE world too the past 10 years or so. SAD!!

Yes there are some pretty stupid things done to about every piece of equipment.

It sorta having to remove the fender pan to remove an idler where in the past they used a carriage bolt but to save a few pennies they switch to regular cap screws but still stamping the square hole.

My son's Nissan xterra had a bad plug coil. You have to pull the intake manifold to remove the plug coils and spark plugs

Hammermechanicman said:

My son's Nissan xterra had a bad plug coil. You have to pull the intake manifold to remove the plug coils and spark plugs

Click to expand...

From the auto repair videos I watch it appears removing the intake manifold is common with a lot of vehicles to do what should be simple repairs in some cases. Or the 2022 Super Duty with the power stroke diesel. Upper oil pan leak requires removing the cab and the engine.

Hammermechanicman said:

View attachment 63036
Shock mount in front of spark plugs so that once you break the plugs loose you can't use a socket to get them all the way out. After 2 turns you can barely get the socket off and finger the plugs out. If they aren't tight. I'll bet the engineers used to work for Chrysler.

Click to expand...

Good sign not to buy that brand again.

Customer's mower. Real nice simplicity. I will see it once a year for a while.

Break it loose with a socket, then get a piece of 1/4" fuel line and slide over the porcelain and spin it out.

I was able to use fingers to change them. Thanks

1970 429 Boss Mustang only way to change the plugs was to take the engine mounts loose jack up engine or cut holes in the finder liner. Was not my vehicle so I took the mounts loose and jackes up the engine. Good grief what a cluster f. Merry merry and a happy happy. Starting to snow here again. Suppose to be in the 60's by the weekend.

Wish that was all I had to do on modern econoboxes. Intake manifold has to come off. That part is easy - it's the 300 parts, wiring, and sensors attached to it that sucks.

What a sweet Mustang. Must've been a blast to drive!

When i was in high school the '63 Galaxie needed an oil pump. The first 2 words in the old blue Motor Manual said "remove engine". Should be a simple job. It is just 2 words.

I'd take an engine removal on that than on anything built after 1995, though. On Ford trucks it's easier to remove the cab to get to the engine than removing the engine with the body in place. Add some Northeastern road salt with low-bidder metals, and you've got yourself one hell of a fun week!

Here's a 7 year old Ram 1500 hub bearing job I did a couple years back:



And here's a classic case of A-Hole engineering for ya ...

Hammermechanicman said:

My son's Nissan xterra had a bad plug coil. You have to pull the intake manifold to remove the plug coils and spark plugs

Click to expand...

I saw a Youtube video on that and could not believe my eye's!! I have a 06 Subaru foreter that I can still work on but the body is gone. I have been watching a few Auto mechanics and seeing what they have to do just to get at a part is crazy!!! The car I buy is going to be based on the price and the body condition. I would like another truck but they are crazy in price.

Smithsonite said:

I'd take an engine removal on that than on anything built after 1995, though. On Ford trucks it's easier to remove the cab to get to the engine than removing the engine with the body in place. Add some Northeastern road salt with low-bidder metals, and you've got yourself one hell of a fun week!

Here's a 7 year old Ram 1500 hub bearing job I did a couple years back:

And here's a classic case of A-Hole engineering for ya ...

Click to expand...

I will agree that the Troy-Bilt and the other Chinese lonesome engines are pretty sad design and actually there's three of those designs on the market right now.
I do so many of these a year I've lost track on how many I've done.
I did 625 pieces of equipment personally all by myself in 2020.
I've learned to be very efficient on these so I don't remove the carburetor or disassemble hardly anything.
When it runs but hunts for idle and surges that means the main jet is somewhat open or at least not fully plugged up and the secondary which we would call the old idle circuit back then in the old days is restricted.
Most of the time they won't run at all and sometimes you get lucky and after you clean out the main jet they will run perfectly so they don't need the secondary jet cleaned out but about 70 to 80% of the time you do have to do both..
I can do the mange yet on most of them that's not rusted or gummed up to pieces which is about 92% of mine in 9 to 12 minutes.
If I have to do the secondary yet it takes about five extra minutes.

You can do everything you need to do without ever removing any of the plastics or the muffler shroud or the carburetor etc.
Yes, it's a little bit harder work but I would rather work harder for a shorter period of time and get them done more quickly. I had a line of 52 of them here all t summer long and that's just push mowers. I stopped doing riders, handheld stuff, zero turns etc.

I've got my tools custom made down to a science.
All you need to do is drop the bowl on the carburetor and if it's not rusted up you wipe it out in under 15 seconds and spray it with carb cleaner.
Then I use my special little ground down quarter inch flat head to unscrew the main jet.
Then I also make sure I remove the tube above that, some call it an emulsion tube metering rod or whatever but I always pull it out and run a wire through its holes also and clean with carb cleaner and compressed air.
Then I blast some car cleaner up in the bottom aluminum tube part of the carburetor and then blast full air compressor air from the blow gun up in there for three or four blasts.
I do this three times in a row minimum as I have found it will often clear out the the secondary jet circuits and you stand a greater chance of it running without surging by doing this.
I also hold my finger and thumb on the two little cross drills to holes and that bottom part of the carburetor so it blast it up and through and not right out the holes.
Takes longer to say how to do this then it actually does to do it.
Then I make sure the float is working properly and not sticking with the inlet valve or anything or the needle valve. I usually have the machine up on its front while doing this so I will typically add fresh fuel to it and send it back down and work the float a couple of times to flush anything out.
Then I put the tube and the main jet back in and make sure the gasket hasn't fallen off the carburetor which it usually stays in the carburetor body and put the bowl back on and tighten up the 10 mm bolt and set the machine back down and start it and see if it surges.
Pretty much a sign that the secondary is clogged up is it will surge unless you give it a little bit of choke and it also won't run at low speeds.
If I have to clean this one out you can push back that little small one inch wide plastic piece where it seemed there and I have a special screwdriver that reaches in and fits the low speed idle stop to remove it and then a smaller screwdriver to lift up the plastic secondary jet assembly.
I used to use needle nose pliers but I got me a small set of stainless steel curved on the end that looked more like a medical instrument where I can reach in there and lift it up.
Then I have a very tiny wire that came off of a wire brush wheel that I used to run through the brass jet in the tip of that plastic piece and then I use my card cleaner to blast that hole and blow it out and then also the hole in the body of the carburetor where it sits.
I also blast the compressed air through that three times also to clean all the holes and passages out so it will get more air flow which makes it run smoothly.
It's tedious but I can do it in under 5 minutes.
Makes me feel like a surgeon. I did take pre-med in college. Lol
Now this of course is under the most basic and close to ideal conditions but about 90 to 92% of the ones I get in are like this.
When you pull one apart where the entire bowl has a rust coating or varnish you have a lot more cleanup to do but even on those I rarely remove the carburetor..
I keep good old bowls around to replace them but occasionally I have to sand the entire surface of the bowl and blast it and WD-40 it etc to get it like new again which is not ideal but it works.
Then you also need to clean out the inside part of the carburetor because often that aluminum tube has varnish or rust on it. I have some little sanding sticks that work perfectly and I use just some tear off crocus cloth.
Then you'll get the occasional one where the tank is totally empty or it is flooded out the crankcase with gas because the float stuck or actually the inlet needle stuck.
This requires you to pop the float out but once again I can do it with the carb still in its original position on the machine.
Then you have to clean that up well I use carb cleaner and compressed air and then sometimes you have to sand and scratch the entire float clean.
I wiped the rubber tip on the needle valve off with microfiber towel and I will usually soak in brake fluid while I'm doing the rest of the work to soften it up some.
Sometimes you have to polish the seat but normally a q-tip with some carb cleaner does the trick and just flush some fuel through it.
I know this sounds pretty intense and time consuming but I can take one that's rusted bowl or a stuck needle valve and do all this to it right about 30 minutes or a hair over.
Most shops about 3 years ago stop doing any carb cleanouts or carb rebuilds are overhauls as they called them.
Now they just replace carbs and some people would say that's a lot simpler and quicker but the way I've got it down too a science it takes at least 30 if not 45 minutes to disassemble all that remove the carburetor put the new one back on and put it all back together.
So whatever floats your boat. I do mine this way without replacing the carb so I can keep the prices down.
I'm quite the weirdo and I don't believe in "Spinning the money wheel" even if it's with someone else's money.
On the majority of the push mowers that come in all season long I have time myself multiple times and the fastest would be the older Briggs & Stratton engines with the aluminum carb. I can do those carb cleanouts and have the mower ready to pick up and mow with in 6 to 8 minutes..
The new Briggs with the plastic carb takes me right at 10 to 12.
I see no reason to throw a new car on it or even a new jet tube assembly into it even though you can get the entire carb for 10 to $12 shipped to your door.
I can swap one of those carburetors but it still takes about 2 to 3 minutes longer to do that than it does to clean them out the way I do and it saves that 10 or 12 bucks..

Smithsonite said:

I'd take an engine removal on that than on anything built after 1995, though. On Ford trucks it's easier to remove the cab to get to the engine than removing the engine with the body in place. Add some Northeastern road salt with low-bidder metals, and you've got yourself one hell of a fun week!

Here's a 7 year old Ram 1500 hub bearing job I did a couple years back:

And here's a classic case of A-Hole engineering for ya ...

Click to expand...

I replaced a V10 in a 2001 excursion by myself in shorts and flip-flops a few years ago.
I don't like doing them but it wasn't really that bad.
I was quite amazed that I was able to take the old one out and install the new one without ever removing the hood from the vehicle. I would have bet money it wasn't possible but it was.
I would say if I was in a hurry to pull one out and rounded up all my tools and equipment prior to starting I could go from running vehicle to engine out and sitting on a tire on the ground in front of the vehicle in about an hour and 15 minutes to an hour and 35 minutes.
But yes, some designs are stupid newer and even older. I remember the first Mitsubishi 3000GT that someone brought me for spark plugs. The front three are simple but the back three you have to remove the turbo pipe and the upper plenum.
Then there was the Ford Taurus at the same guy brought me shl with the Yamaha engine. A valve adjustment!
Have to pull the whole tube intake assembly off or whatever it is and then they are shim under bucket or whatever like a motorcycle.

The problem is the device is designed independently of the engine .
Where as the engine should have been looked at before the device was drawn up
Engineers get given the spacial parameters ( shaft position & mounting bolts ) then told to go design a snow thrower that is light, cheap to make & uses the minimum amount of materials .
The cynical will say it is deliberate to prevent the customer from servicing their gear but in reality is is just an accident.
Then computers come into play
Old mowers used standard sized belts ,as do the locally made Aust mowers
Then blade speed regulations change, engine sizes change so the factory just changes the pulleys, pop the new dimensions inot the computer prgrame and come up with 237+25/64" as if +/- 2" would make any difference if the designers had done any engineering .
But now days , designers have zero engineering or even servicing skills or even education
They design and if it does not work as planned then the engineers have to make it work .
And I hate to sound like a broken record but it comes down to accountants who are hard put to know which end of a screwdriver does the work, go back to college & get an MBA then become managers.
Their MBA course isolates & pigeon holes all of the various "inputs" into production thus to them the very idea that an engineer could actually design a product from the ground up never crosses their cookie cutter mind .
So they get designers from a good design school to design & engineers from a good engineering school to do the engineering .
Ask one of them the difference between an engineer & a technician and a mechanic and watch them whip out their phone and seek the advice of Mr Google.
The third last warehouse I worked in decided the delivery runs were not efficient so they brought in a computer geek to fix them.
And he did a good job at making them all equal in number of drops & weights
I then kidnapped him on the very first day and mid way we came to 2 drops on different sides of the highway, which is divided for 5 miles and asked him how I should do them . HE of course started with "It's not my fault, no one told me about the divided road " so I did the one on the side we were on then drove 3 miles to hook a U turn , dropped the 50 cases , drove 2 miles back down the highway hooked another U turn then missed every delivery window for the rest of the run .
Despite this he ( or management ) refused to revert to the old runs ( worked out by long time highly experienced delivery drivers ) for full month during which time we lost more money than our entire years budget .
Their solution was to replace the transport manager with a university graduate , cold without any training so he had no idea how to run NAVS let alone run a mixed fleet of company drivers, direct contractors & ad hoc called in drivers .
I tacked the warehouse manager about why the old transport manager was sacked & why the position was not made available to the existing employees & contractors .
The reply was "we wanted some one with the proper qualifications to do the job so the week after I walked out .
A year latter the warehouse was being run by DHL and 5 years latter the shed closed down for good .

I'm at the age where my tolerance level for this kind of b/s engineering is EXTREMELY low. These days I pick and choose my battles. I don't need the money that bad! I need my sanity more.