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87 octane with ethanol OR 91 octane ethanol free
#1
K
konowl
K
konowl
So I found a local gas station who has ethanol free gas but it's 91 octane. I'm thinking about switching my outboard 90hp boat, push mower and tractor to ethanol free. Is it worht the extra cost of 91 octane? Doesn't really matter for the tractor and the push mower as it won't be that much more, but it's the boat. I want to keep the engine clean as long as possible.
#2
BKBrown
BKBrown
I don't know how much more per gallon the ethanol free gas is, but it will be much better for the boat and also for any engine.
I'd bet you get more hours per gallon and a much cleaner engine with ethanol free gas.
I'd bet you get more hours per gallon and a much cleaner engine with ethanol free gas.
#3
O
OLBIKER
O
OLBIKER
I use ethanol free in every thing I own.Write your State Representatives and ask why you are forced to buy gas with ethanol in it.It ruins engines,pollutes more and you get less mileage.Hint (can you say corn lobby!!!)Not only that but because the price has been driven up on corn,meat and dairy products.
#4
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Been promoting non-ethanol fuel since I joined this forum. Is it worth the extra cost, YES. Also, try it in you car and watch the milage increase after two tankfulls.
#6
K
konowl
I'm not overly concerned with the added cost although my boat will suck. I'm concerned about running 91 octane in my small engines and my 2 stroke boat
K
konowl
Been promoting non-ethanol fuel since I joined this forum. Is it worth the extra cost, YES. Also, try it in you car and watch the milage increase after two tankfulls.
I'm not overly concerned with the added cost although my boat will suck. I'm concerned about running 91 octane in my small engines and my 2 stroke boat
#7
O
OLBIKER
O
OLBIKER
The Marina I bought my boat from told me to run the Premium non ethenol in my 25 Merc 2 stroke.I also use it in my Husqvarna chain saws.I'm not overly concerned with the added cost although my boat will suck. I'm concerned about running 91 octane in my small engines and my 2 stroke boat
#8
T
Tom59
T
Tom59
ABSOLUTELY .... worth every penny note your GPH burned , then report back. I'm betting it improves by 1gph or so...
#9
M
Mini Motors
M
Mini Motors
No ethanol= good
Higher octane, not so much. As discussed in another thread, a change in octane requires a change in timing, something you can't do in a small engine in a mower, walk behind or rider. Buy ethanol free if you can, but stick with the recommended octane in most anything you can't monkey with the timing on.
Higher octane, not so much. As discussed in another thread, a change in octane requires a change in timing, something you can't do in a small engine in a mower, walk behind or rider. Buy ethanol free if you can, but stick with the recommended octane in most anything you can't monkey with the timing on.
#10
T
Tom59
....explain what will happen if you run higher octane.
T
Tom59
No ethanol= good
Higher octane, not so much. As discussed in another thread, a change in octane requires a change in timing, something you can't do in a small engine in a mower, walk behind or rider. Buy ethanol free if you can, but stick with the recommended octane in most anything you can't monkey with the timing on.
....explain what will happen if you run higher octane.
#12
T
Tom59
T
Tom59
Depends on many factors mostly compression ratios also air fuel mixtures and the type of head and valves used to make it breath. Most companies are having trouble today with small engines, in case anyone was sleeping. Most of the issues are fuel related. Today any water gets in and ethanol draws water in , you get problems.
Higher octane fuel is more stable burns cooler and slower its definately a safety factor. I bent valves using 87 octane my machine would backfire almost every shut off. Running 91 octane my machine NEVER backfires. Went through this with two small engines.
Especially in the HEAT , colder air -you can get away with it sometimes. Stihl for instance only recommends 89 and up if you call them they will say buy the highest octane you can get so their requirements like most is a minimum requirement.
I prefer to side on caution with ethanol in my engines. Cars are different they can make due computers and electronic fuel and engine timing is all computer driven. I cannot get leaded fuel or without ethanol around here without buying race fuels. When water is introduced to fuels , and it is , ask any boat owner , then the need for safer octane levels helps, IMHO.
Higher octane fuel is more stable burns cooler and slower its definately a safety factor. I bent valves using 87 octane my machine would backfire almost every shut off. Running 91 octane my machine NEVER backfires. Went through this with two small engines.
Especially in the HEAT , colder air -you can get away with it sometimes. Stihl for instance only recommends 89 and up if you call them they will say buy the highest octane you can get so their requirements like most is a minimum requirement.
I prefer to side on caution with ethanol in my engines. Cars are different they can make due computers and electronic fuel and engine timing is all computer driven. I cannot get leaded fuel or without ethanol around here without buying race fuels. When water is introduced to fuels , and it is , ask any boat owner , then the need for safer octane levels helps, IMHO.
#13
Bomba
Bomba
I have an Exmark with a Kohler Command 27HP Engine. Lately I've been using 100% Gasoline that's either 87 or 89 octane, can't remember which. Is this ok to use in that engine??
#15
M
Mini Motors
Higher octane burns slower, therefore isn't done burning by the end of the bang(*) cycle, and hasn't had the force of a lower octane, faster burning fuel. To compensate for this, you would need to start the burn sooner by changing the ignition timing, and maybe delay the exhaust valve opening. What's happening in your mind is even more wrong. You've been brain washed to think "bigger is better", and somehow higher octane is making your engine more powerful, when the opposite is true. Sorta like when you take the muffler off your minibike. It's louder, but it's really not any faster.
(*) Suck, Squeeze, Bang, Blow= the 4 cycles of a 4 cycle engine. Suck = intake, squeeze = compression, Bang = burn(wrongly characterized as an explosion), and blow = exhaust.
The bottom line is this. Unless you have a PHD in engineering, stick with what the maker suggests. Some really smart people designed your engine. You really don't think that you're smarter than they are, do ya? Repair shops all over love people who think they know better. They refer to this as " someone took a golden screwdriver to it".
M
Mini Motors
....explain what will happen if you run higher octane.
Higher octane burns slower, therefore isn't done burning by the end of the bang(*) cycle, and hasn't had the force of a lower octane, faster burning fuel. To compensate for this, you would need to start the burn sooner by changing the ignition timing, and maybe delay the exhaust valve opening. What's happening in your mind is even more wrong. You've been brain washed to think "bigger is better", and somehow higher octane is making your engine more powerful, when the opposite is true. Sorta like when you take the muffler off your minibike. It's louder, but it's really not any faster.
(*) Suck, Squeeze, Bang, Blow= the 4 cycles of a 4 cycle engine. Suck = intake, squeeze = compression, Bang = burn(wrongly characterized as an explosion), and blow = exhaust.
The bottom line is this. Unless you have a PHD in engineering, stick with what the maker suggests. Some really smart people designed your engine. You really don't think that you're smarter than they are, do ya? Repair shops all over love people who think they know better. They refer to this as " someone took a golden screwdriver to it".
#16
T
Tom59
No more octane isn't bigger, wow. According to you I would be using 118octane or VP fuels , if bigger is better.
READ the manufacturers requirements thay are MINIMUMs. Re- read what I wrote. WATER and ETHANOL are both BAD NEWS and lower detonation , period. Then you BETTER be sure your local gas station is selling you 87 octane and also be sure to store it in a cool dry place for less than three months.
Otherwise use stabilizers. If you trust Briggs or Kohler for octane requirements then good for you. They know so much why so many failures. Go read any lawn forum tons of failed engines from the so called experts.
Small engine makers are having a terrible time with ethanol based engines. WHY? What changed ! Ethanol.
You stick to what you do , I feel better doing what I do. I'm brain washed.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/25936782/...mechanics-see-ethanol-damaging-small-engines/
T
Tom59
Higher octane burns slower, therefore isn't done burning by the end of the bang(*) cycle, and hasn't had the force of a lower octane, faster burning fuel. To compensate for this, you would need to start the burn sooner by changing the ignition timing, and maybe delay the exhaust valve opening. What's happening in your mind is even more wrong. You've been brain washed to think "bigger is better", and somehow higher octane is making your engine more powerful, when the opposite is true. Sorta like when you take the muffler off your minibike. It's louder, but it's really not any faster.
(*) Suck, Squeeze, Bang, Blow= the 4 cycles of a 4 cycle engine. Suck = intake, squeeze = compression, Bang = burn(wrongly characterized as an explosion), and blow = exhaust.
The bottom line is this. Unless you have a PHD in engineering, stick with what the maker suggests. Some really smart people designed your engine. You really don't think that you're smarter than they are, do ya? Repair shops all over love people who think they know better. They refer to this as " someone took a golden screwdriver to it".
No more octane isn't bigger, wow. According to you I would be using 118octane or VP fuels , if bigger is better.
READ the manufacturers requirements thay are MINIMUMs. Re- read what I wrote. WATER and ETHANOL are both BAD NEWS and lower detonation , period. Then you BETTER be sure your local gas station is selling you 87 octane and also be sure to store it in a cool dry place for less than three months.
Otherwise use stabilizers. If you trust Briggs or Kohler for octane requirements then good for you. They know so much why so many failures. Go read any lawn forum tons of failed engines from the so called experts.
Small engine makers are having a terrible time with ethanol based engines. WHY? What changed ! Ethanol.
You stick to what you do , I feel better doing what I do. I'm brain washed.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/25936782/...mechanics-see-ethanol-damaging-small-engines/
#17
M
Mini Motors
M
Mini Motors
I apologize if my last post came off so intense. I can get carried away.
And make no mistake. We agree on ethanol. I never said or heard anyone say otherwise. But "so many failures"? I have a dozen or so small engines, that go back into the 50s, and haven't had an issue(although, I do use Sea Foam). And while many complain about ethanol in forums, I never heard of any fatalities.
And make no mistake. We agree on ethanol. I never said or heard anyone say otherwise. But "so many failures"? I have a dozen or so small engines, that go back into the 50s, and haven't had an issue(although, I do use Sea Foam). And while many complain about ethanol in forums, I never heard of any fatalities.
#18
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Have been repairing engines since the 60's and ethanol does not seen to create the problem in the older engines. The problem started to show up in the last 5 years. This would lead my to believe that engine manufactures have changed something in their fuel system materials. The aluminum seems to corrode faster and the synthetic plastics are either expanding (float needle and seats) or hardening (fuel lines). Also, fuel companies are now saying their fuels start breaking down after 30 days, which was not a problem before ethanol. Because the passageways and jets in today's carbs are so much smaller, the effects of a small bit of dirt, gum, varnish or corrosion very quickly affect the carbs operation. From my experience I feel that the gum, varnish and corrosion is a result of the addition of ethanol and that is why I recommend using non ethanol fuels whenever possible.
#19
T
Tom59
If you have the option! YES, AGREED 100%.
Rick Kitchings has been a small-engine mechanic for about 30 years, and heç—´ been busier than ever lately.
Recently, a customer came into his shop in Savannah, Ga., with a string trimmer that had barely been used. çš„t looked like it just came off the showroom floor, but the motor was absolutely shot, absolutely worn out, Kitchings said.
The owner had fueled the trimmer with an gasoline-ethanol blend, which is becoming increasingly common thanks to a federal mandate to convert to biofuels.
Although the Web is rife with complaints from car owners who say ethanol damaged their engines, ethanol producers and automakers say itç—´ safe to use in cars. But smaller engines the two-cycle utility engines in lawnmowers, chain saws and outboard boat motors are another story.
Benjamin Mallisham, owner of a lawnmower repair shop in Tuscaloosa, Ala., said at least 40 percent of the lawnmower engines he repairs these days have been damaged by ethanol.
展hen you put that ethanol in here, it eats up the insides or rusts them out, Mallisham said. é„*ll the rubber gaskets and parts it eats those up.
T
Tom59
Have been repairing engines since the 60's and ethanol does not seen to create the problem in the older engines. The problem started to show up in the last 5 years. This would lead my to believe that engine manufactures have changed something in their fuel system materials. The aluminum seems to corrode faster and the synthetic plastics are either expanding (float needle and seats) or hardening (fuel lines). Also, fuel companies are now saying their fuels start breaking down after 30 days, which was not a problem before ethanol. Because the passageways and jets in today's carbs are so much smaller, the effects of a small bit of dirt, gum, varnish or corrosion very quickly affect the carbs operation. From my experience I feel that the gum, varnish and corrosion is a result of the addition of ethanol and that is why I recommend using non ethanol fuels whenever possible.
If you have the option! YES, AGREED 100%.
Rick Kitchings has been a small-engine mechanic for about 30 years, and heç—´ been busier than ever lately.
Recently, a customer came into his shop in Savannah, Ga., with a string trimmer that had barely been used. çš„t looked like it just came off the showroom floor, but the motor was absolutely shot, absolutely worn out, Kitchings said.
The owner had fueled the trimmer with an gasoline-ethanol blend, which is becoming increasingly common thanks to a federal mandate to convert to biofuels.
Although the Web is rife with complaints from car owners who say ethanol damaged their engines, ethanol producers and automakers say itç—´ safe to use in cars. But smaller engines the two-cycle utility engines in lawnmowers, chain saws and outboard boat motors are another story.
Benjamin Mallisham, owner of a lawnmower repair shop in Tuscaloosa, Ala., said at least 40 percent of the lawnmower engines he repairs these days have been damaged by ethanol.
展hen you put that ethanol in here, it eats up the insides or rusts them out, Mallisham said. é„*ll the rubber gaskets and parts it eats those up.
#20
T
Tom59
T
Tom59
The Outdoor Power Equipment Institute (OPEI) has advocated nationally regarding the damaging effects of ethanol-based fuels on small-engine equipment. These fuels, due to their corrosive nature, can seriously damage fuel systems that are not designed to handle them. E15 fuels burn significantly hotter, and as a result, they can cause a small engine to overheat. In addition, these increased-ethanol fuel blends can absorb a great deal of airborne water (which in humid or damp operating conditions makes the engine very difficult to start) and are hard to ignite within a carburetor during cold weather.
#21
M
Mini Motors
M
Mini Motors
Clearly, if ethanol absorbs water from the air, that explains the corrosion. But varnish and gum have always been an issue. I think the economy plays a part. People haven't been replacing equipment as much, I'll bet. And a couple years of varnish build up doesn't help much either.
#22
jekjr
jekjr
Our local repair shop that has been in business for a lot of years is reccomending 100 octane air plane fuel.
#23
T
Tom59
Because of no ethanol and its leaded fuel.
T
Tom59
Our local repair shop that has been in business for a lot of years is reccomending 100 octane air plane fuel.
Because of no ethanol and its leaded fuel.
#24
exotion
Maybe if people took better care of their equipment ethanol wouldn't be such an issue. My sister mows once a month she fills up her lawn mower once a year maybe twice. This is an example she let's that gas sit and it goes bad. She takes it to her dealer and there is damage now she's a statistic.
My dad has a bit of land up north he has 2 riding tractors a push mower a dr field mower and a echo weed eater. He trades me chilli for servicing them once a year. New oil new air filter new spark plugs. And about every other year new carbs again he never takes care of them. The gas in the dr field mower has probably been there since I emptied it last october he filled it up promtply after that. My equipment gets used a lot.... my toro is kinda old but I never let the gas sit and I have never had a problem
exotion
Clearly, if ethanol absorbs water from the air, that explains the corrosion. But varnish and gum have always been an issue. I think the economy plays a part. People haven't been replacing equipment as much, I'll bet. And a couple years of varnish build up doesn't help much either.
Maybe if people took better care of their equipment ethanol wouldn't be such an issue. My sister mows once a month she fills up her lawn mower once a year maybe twice. This is an example she let's that gas sit and it goes bad. She takes it to her dealer and there is damage now she's a statistic.
My dad has a bit of land up north he has 2 riding tractors a push mower a dr field mower and a echo weed eater. He trades me chilli for servicing them once a year. New oil new air filter new spark plugs. And about every other year new carbs again he never takes care of them. The gas in the dr field mower has probably been there since I emptied it last october he filled it up promtply after that. My equipment gets used a lot.... my toro is kinda old but I never let the gas sit and I have never had a problem
#25
iMower
iMower
I thought all gasoline was required to have ethanol in it. I was not aware that 91 octane (mid grade?) was not required to have it. Is 91 octane ethanol free everywhere? If it is, then I am definitely changing to it. The flame propagation time of the slightly higher octane would be insignificant to engine timing.
I left a tiny amount of fuel in my mower over the past winter and it gummed up everything. You know that bad-gas smell and I knew it for several hours as I cleaned the fuel system out. I will never forget to drain my tank completely, I will never forget to drain my tank completely, I will never forget to drain my tank completely...
I know that it messes up boats because it absorbs moisture rapidly, gets stale faster, is detrimental to fuel system components, and I cannot leave it in my standby generator for the season even if it is treated with Stabil because it might not start.
I left a tiny amount of fuel in my mower over the past winter and it gummed up everything. You know that bad-gas smell and I knew it for several hours as I cleaned the fuel system out. I will never forget to drain my tank completely, I will never forget to drain my tank completely, I will never forget to drain my tank completely...
I know that it messes up boats because it absorbs moisture rapidly, gets stale faster, is detrimental to fuel system components, and I cannot leave it in my standby generator for the season even if it is treated with Stabil because it might not start.
#26
exotion
My dad keeps his generator empty but has a couple cans of that stihl 4 cycle gas that you buy in stores next to it in case of emergency
exotion
I thought all gasoline was required to have ethanol in it. I was not aware that 91 octane (mid grade?) was not required to have it. Is 91 octane ethanol free everywhere? If it is, then I am definitely changing to it. The flame propagation time of the slightly higher octane would be insignificant to engine timing.
I left a tiny amount of fuel in my mower over the past winter and it gummed up everything. You know that bad-gas smell and I knew it for several hours as I cleaned the fuel system out. I will never forget to drain my tank completely, I will never forget to drain my tank completely, I will never forget to drain my tank completely...
I know that it messes up boats because it absorbs moisture rapidly, gets stale faster, is detrimental to fuel system components, and I cannot leave it in my standby generator for the season even if it is treated with Stabil because it might not start.
My dad keeps his generator empty but has a couple cans of that stihl 4 cycle gas that you buy in stores next to it in case of emergency
#27
M
Mini Motors
My guess is that you're too young to remember cars without computer control, or you'd remember "pinging" issues, or cars that would "diesel" after being turned off for up to a full minute. These were common occurrences when you switched to a different octane, and don't happen on today's cars because of computers.
But to your other question, 91 octane at your local gas station has the ethanol, and I believe the OP was referring to a marina that has ethanol free. Try Google and look for "ethanol free gasoline" and you may come up with something. For example, when I checked a couple years ago, there was a station in my state that had it. And it was only 250 miles away.
M
Mini Motors
The flame propagation time of the slightly higher octane would be insignificant to engine timing.
My guess is that you're too young to remember cars without computer control, or you'd remember "pinging" issues, or cars that would "diesel" after being turned off for up to a full minute. These were common occurrences when you switched to a different octane, and don't happen on today's cars because of computers.
But to your other question, 91 octane at your local gas station has the ethanol, and I believe the OP was referring to a marina that has ethanol free. Try Google and look for "ethanol free gasoline" and you may come up with something. For example, when I checked a couple years ago, there was a station in my state that had it. And it was only 250 miles away.
#28
1
1894
1
1894
We have one station ( about 15 miles away ) that has the non-ethanol 91 octane gas . I believe it is a fast track station. But since it comes out of the single hose on the pump , I just put the first gallon or two in my truck before filling my gas can . Next nearest place is a marina , but they run 50 - 75 cents higher / gallon.
#29
B
Brucebotti
I'm not too young to remember. I remember pimging, dieseling, and vapor lock.... I also remember putting in "dry gas" in the winter to keep fuel lines from freezing. Wasn't that basically ethanol? As usual, I'm confused...
Bruce
B
Brucebotti
My guess is that you're too young to remember cars without computer control, or you'd remember "pinging" issues, or cars that would "diesel" after being turned off for up to a full minute. These were common occurrences when you switched to a different octane, and don't happen on today's cars because of computers.
But to your other question, 91 octane at your local gas station has the ethanol, and I believe the OP was referring to a marina that has ethanol free. Try Google and look for "ethanol free gasoline" and you may come up with something. For example, when I checked a couple years ago, there was a station in my state that had it. And it was only 250 miles away.
I'm not too young to remember. I remember pimging, dieseling, and vapor lock....
I also remember putting in "dry gas" in the winter to keep fuel lines from freezing. Wasn't that basically ethanol? As usual, I'm confused...Bruce
#30
M
Mini Motors
M
Mini Motors
I don't remember what exactly it was, but ethanol seems right. But no where near as much as what is in today's gas.
And wow. Vapor lock. That brings back bad memories. My honeymoon, and what I later guessed was vapor lock. But as we drove southward and it was happening, I stopped to try and figure it out, and in cleaning myself up afterward, I removed my wedding ring to wash up, and left it in a gas station bathroom in South Carolina.
And wow. Vapor lock. That brings back bad memories. My honeymoon, and what I later guessed was vapor lock. But as we drove southward and it was happening, I stopped to try and figure it out, and in cleaning myself up afterward, I removed my wedding ring to wash up, and left it in a gas station bathroom in South Carolina.
#31
B
Brucebotti
This site has shaken a lot of old memories from the cob webs of my brain.
By the way......Gulp! Are you still married? :smile:
Bruce
B
Brucebotti
I don't remember what exactly it was, but ethanol seems right. But no where near as much as what is in today's gas.
And wow. Vapor lock. That brings back bad memories. My honeymoon, and what I later guessed was vapor lock. But as we drove southward and it was happening, I stopped to try and figure it out, and in cleaning myself up afterward, I removed my wedding ring to wash up, and left it in a gas station bathroom in South Carolina.
This site has shaken a lot of old memories from the cob webs of my brain.
By the way......Gulp! Are you still married? :smile:
Bruce
#32
Boudreaux
Boudreaux
OK.... having read all the posts, I'm convinced that ethanol is not good for small engines, especially the newer ones.
So, if you don't have Ethanol-free fuel, what is the remedy....???
How many of those Ethanol fuel additives are snake oil....???
Which ones work wonders...???
So, if you don't have Ethanol-free fuel, what is the remedy....???
How many of those Ethanol fuel additives are snake oil....???
Which ones work wonders...???
#33
M
Mini Motors
M
Mini Motors
Bruce- yes. 33 years, come August. And while it got replaced, lost again, and found(this time it just fell off my finger while sleeping, fell under bed), I don't wear it except for special events(parties, etc) because I work with machinery, and that's a good way to loose a finger.
Boudreaux- Sea Foam works.
Boudreaux- Sea Foam works.
#34
B
Brucebotti
At least losing your ring wasn't bad luck. My wife and I just hit 36 years in May...:confused2:
Bruce
B
Brucebotti
Bruce- yes. 33 years, come August. And while it got replaced, lost again, and found(this time it just fell off my finger while sleeping, fell under bed), I don't wear it except for special events(parties, etc) because I work with machinery, and that's a good way to loose a finger.
Boudreaux- Sea Foam works.
At least losing your ring wasn't bad luck. My wife and I just hit 36 years in May...:confused2:
Bruce
#35
exotion
I second sea foam. Works for everything
exotion
Bruce- yes. 33 years, come August. And while it got replaced, lost again, and found(this time it just fell off my finger while sleeping, fell under bed), I don't wear it except for special events(parties, etc) because I work with machinery, and that's a good way to loose a finger.
Boudreaux- Sea Foam works.
I second sea foam. Works for everything
#36
B
benski
I, too, am a Sea-Foam fan. I also use Chevron Techron for helping with deposits. Here in the NW, we don't have anything but 10% ethanol blend available at any place but airports, so we're stuck. I hate ethanol blended fuel, especially in small infrequently run applications, but there isn't much practical way around its use here.:frown:
B
benski
I second sea foam. Works for everything
I, too, am a Sea-Foam fan. I also use Chevron Techron for helping with deposits. Here in the NW, we don't have anything but 10% ethanol blend available at any place but airports, so we're stuck. I hate ethanol blended fuel, especially in small infrequently run applications, but there isn't much practical way around its use here.:frown:
#37
T
Tom59
check marina's ... Marvel Mystery Oil some use here in small amounts ...... I've used it to store boat fuel and even with ethanol I've never had an issue -20 yrs plus-. But , that is a v8 GM based marine engine with no smog and fuel water seperators. No idea with small engines I've never used it.
Old timers love it mix it in their coffee in the morning.
T
Tom59
I, too, am a Sea-Foam fan. I also use Chevron Techron for helping with deposits. Here in the NW, we don't have anything but 10% ethanol blend available at any place but airports, so we're stuck. I hate ethanol blended fuel, especially in small infrequently run applications, but there isn't much practical way around its use here.:frown:
check marina's ... Marvel Mystery Oil some use here in small amounts ...... I've used it to store boat fuel and even with ethanol I've never had an issue -20 yrs plus-. But , that is a v8 GM based marine engine with no smog and fuel water seperators. No idea with small engines I've never used it.
Old timers love it mix it in their coffee in the morning.
#38
R
redmondjp
Where do you live in WA? Believe it or not, there are actually still a few stations besides those at airports that carry alcohol-free gas in our state. I just filled up both my pickup and all of my (as well as four other neighbors') OPE gas cans out at the Cenex station in Issaquah (right across the street from the XXX drive-in at the East end of town). I also know that some Conoco stations in Eastern WA carry alcohol-free gas, including one on Stevens Drive in Richland (where I grew up). And my truck gained 1.5mpg on the alcohol-free gas as well!
Check this website to see if there are any stations near you: Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada
I have become painfully aware of how bad alcohol is for small engines this spring - I bought a 25' roll of 1/4" fuel hose to replace all of the hardened, cracked hoses (some only a few years old) on the equipment that I have been working on. It's murder on those expensive outboard motor fuel tank lines and primer squeeze bulbs as well! The primer bulb gets so hard that you can't even squeeze it.
R
redmondjp
I, too, am a Sea-Foam fan. I also use Chevron Techron for helping with deposits. Here in the NW, we don't have anything but 10% ethanol blend available at any place but airports, so we're stuck. I hate ethanol blended fuel, especially in small infrequently run applications, but there isn't much practical way around its use here.:frown:
Where do you live in WA? Believe it or not, there are actually still a few stations besides those at airports that carry alcohol-free gas in our state. I just filled up both my pickup and all of my (as well as four other neighbors') OPE gas cans out at the Cenex station in Issaquah (right across the street from the XXX drive-in at the East end of town). I also know that some Conoco stations in Eastern WA carry alcohol-free gas, including one on Stevens Drive in Richland (where I grew up). And my truck gained 1.5mpg on the alcohol-free gas as well!
Check this website to see if there are any stations near you: Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada
I have become painfully aware of how bad alcohol is for small engines this spring - I bought a 25' roll of 1/4" fuel hose to replace all of the hardened, cracked hoses (some only a few years old) on the equipment that I have been working on. It's murder on those expensive outboard motor fuel tank lines and primer squeeze bulbs as well! The primer bulb gets so hard that you can't even squeeze it.
#39
Bomba
Bomba
Thanks for all of the advice guys. The only type of ethanol free gas I can get here in north Georgia is 87 octane. Don't know how that affects my 27 HP Kohler.
#40
B
benski
I stand corrected. About 6 miles in the opposite direction of my normal route there is a station that sells 92 octane non ethanol fuel. I may be tempted to give it a whack sometime.:thumbsup: Thanks for the link. I'll be interested to see how much of uh, a premium:ashamed::laughing: they charge for it.
B
benski
Where do you live in WA? Believe it or not, there are actually still a few stations besides those at airports that carry alcohol-free gas in our state. I just filled up both my pickup and all of my (as well as four other neighbors') OPE gas cans out at the Cenex station in Issaquah (right across the street from the XXX drive-in at the East end of town). I also know that some Conoco stations in Eastern WA carry alcohol-free gas, including one on Stevens Drive in Richland (where I grew up). And my truck gained 1.5mpg on the alcohol-free gas as well!
Check this website to see if there are any stations near you: Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada
I have become painfully aware of how bad alcohol is for small engines this spring - I bought a 25' roll of 1/4" fuel hose to replace all of the hardened, cracked hoses (some only a few years old) on the equipment that I have been working on. It's murder on those expensive outboard motor fuel tank lines and primer squeeze bulbs as well! The primer bulb gets so hard that you can't even squeeze it.
I stand corrected. About 6 miles in the opposite direction of my normal route there is a station that sells 92 octane non ethanol fuel. I may be tempted to give it a whack sometime.:thumbsup: Thanks for the link. I'll be interested to see how much of uh, a premium:ashamed::laughing: they charge for it.
#41
P
Pochie
There is only one station near me with non-ethanol. I add about 1/4 ounce of Sea Foam to each 2 gallon gas container using regular 87 octane. I had two carbs ruined a few years ago before I really knew about ethanol. My Sears tractor has been acting up and putting Sea Foam in at a strong concentration allows it to run great with modulating the choke. It is 12 years old. I put my Sea Foam/gas mixture in all my machines except my newer cars.
('06 and '12). The newer cars use lower w oils that, to my understanding stop the damage done by ethanol somehow.
I never added Sea Foam to my Kubota diesel BX 23 but will have to read the label to see if it is OK to do so.:smile:
P
Pochie
....explain what will happen if you run higher octane.
There is only one station near me with non-ethanol. I add about 1/4 ounce of Sea Foam to each 2 gallon gas container using regular 87 octane. I had two carbs ruined a few years ago before I really knew about ethanol. My Sears tractor has been acting up and putting Sea Foam in at a strong concentration allows it to run great with modulating the choke. It is 12 years old. I put my Sea Foam/gas mixture in all my machines except my newer cars.
('06 and '12). The newer cars use lower w oils that, to my understanding stop the damage done by ethanol somehow.
I never added Sea Foam to my Kubota diesel BX 23 but will have to read the label to see if it is OK to do so.:smile:
#42
T
tide
my stilh trimmer calls for 91 octane and syn.mix oil ! any engine I,ve ever had starts and runs better with higher octane fuel ! and I,ve had a bunch ! ROLL TIDE !
T
tide
I'm not overly concerned with the added cost although my boat will suck. I'm concerned about running 91 octane in my small engines and my 2 stroke boat
my stilh trimmer calls for 91 octane and syn.mix oil ! any engine I,ve ever had starts and runs better with higher octane fuel ! and I,ve had a bunch ! ROLL TIDE !
#43
P
pleeson
Have to chuckle -- I live in Iowa, and non-ethanol gas is available everywhere, in 87 and 91 octane, despite all the cornfields.
Fewer cars = fewer EPA restrictions, I guess.
P
pleeson
There is only one station near me with non-ethanol.
Have to chuckle -- I live in Iowa, and non-ethanol gas is available everywhere, in 87 and 91 octane, despite all the cornfields.
Fewer cars = fewer EPA restrictions, I guess.
#44
T
tide
I thought in iowa you just stuck ears of corn in your tank ! just kidding here in Bama everything runs on Pork ! LOL
T
tide
Have to chuckle -- I live in Iowa, and non-ethanol gas is available everywhere, in 87 and 91 octane, despite all the cornfields.
Fewer cars = fewer EPA restrictions, I guess.
I thought in iowa you just stuck ears of corn in your tank ! just kidding here in Bama everything runs on Pork ! LOL
#45
H
hcooper
H
hcooper
I wouldn't be using high octane fuel in a mower engine, or in any engine that doesn't require hi-test in the operating instructions. High octane doesn't make the fuel more "powerful", it only resists knocks and pre-ignition in engines that require hi-test gas. It does this my having a higher resistance to ignation that regular gas. This, in turn, make the frame front slower, and the gas charge burns longer. In a mower engine, this gas can still be burning at max temperature when your exhaust valve opens, and that doesn't add to the life of the valve or the valve seat if you use this fuel all the time. If you hate ethanol, then get the good old 87 octane, and add about 8 oz. of Marvel Mystery Oil to about 5 gallons of gas. I've used it since the ethanol belnds came out, and I've never ad an issue.
As for outboard engines, if you have a 2-stroke, I'm not sure what they recommend now, but it used to be a no-no to use hi-test gas. With the 2-stroke, using the proper oil and gas/oil mix shoudl negate any bad stuuf regarding ethanol. You can substitute an ounce of MMO for one ounce of 2-stroke oil and be safe, also.
As for hi-revving 2-strokes like chain saws, there is a fuel additive that combats ethanol woes. It's blue and I just can't think of the name. Most hardware and saw stores sell it, and it's not that expensive, considering the small amount of fuel these little engines use. Don't use hi-test in these engines either, as they will get way to hot. Be sure to use GOOD 2-stroke oil. I've used Wal-Mart's Super-Tech TCW-III 2-stroke oil for years, and it's seems to be just fine. It might be Wal-Mart's brand name, but they sure don't make it! Just mix it per what the engine maker says.....more isn't better!
As for outboard engines, if you have a 2-stroke, I'm not sure what they recommend now, but it used to be a no-no to use hi-test gas. With the 2-stroke, using the proper oil and gas/oil mix shoudl negate any bad stuuf regarding ethanol. You can substitute an ounce of MMO for one ounce of 2-stroke oil and be safe, also.
As for hi-revving 2-strokes like chain saws, there is a fuel additive that combats ethanol woes. It's blue and I just can't think of the name. Most hardware and saw stores sell it, and it's not that expensive, considering the small amount of fuel these little engines use. Don't use hi-test in these engines either, as they will get way to hot. Be sure to use GOOD 2-stroke oil. I've used Wal-Mart's Super-Tech TCW-III 2-stroke oil for years, and it's seems to be just fine. It might be Wal-Mart's brand name, but they sure don't make it! Just mix it per what the engine maker says.....more isn't better!
#46
S
sven.gizmo
S
sven.gizmo
Alcohol mixed with gasoline is not a bad thing but should not be allowed in small engines.
The plastics used in most small engine fuel systems are bad. Blame the manufacturers for cheaping out.
Old gas is bad, alcohol or not. Alcohol is hygroscopic and will absorb water until it falls out of solution with the gasoline. This alcohol is very rich in oxygen (from the water) and will attack plastics, rubber and especially aluminum.
Ethanol free gas can be stored up to 8 times longer than blended gas.
Unless there is 10 to 15 points difference (higher) in octane rating there will be no measurable difference in power output in your small engine.
Add a nice hot glowing piece of carbon deposit in your weed eaters combustion chamber and you will learn all about preignition and will never run regular in your small two stroke again.
I have replaced all the fuel lines in my older equipment because of failure due to ethanol. I have had fewer problems if I drain all the fuel before storing but this seems to cause the diaphragms in my two stroke carbs to become brittle and fail (conjecture on my part). In carburetors with floats ALL the gas needs to be drained, even the little bit remaining after "running" it dry can still cause problems. The aluminum oxide (white rust) created by the ethanol and water will find it's way into the carb's pilot jet (idle circuit) and is mostly impossible to remove especially in the newer fixed jet carbs.
I have worked on small engines before ethanol and have found carb bowls half full of water (condensation from the fuel tank) and just drained and cleaned the tank and carb bowl and they usually started right up with fresh gas. Since ethanol no such luck especially if white scaly deposits are present. If you suspect that a piece of equipment has sat a long time, do NOT try to start. Drain and clean the fuel system first. This might save you the cost of a new carb.
My advice: Ethanol blend, four strokes with float bowels, drain ALL gas and run dry with choke on and, if possible, drain float bowl. Good till next season. Two strokes, drain all gas, fill with fresh fuel mixed with stabilizer and hope for the best.
Non ethanol gas, fill with fresh and run for a short time. Stabilizer an option but a good idea. Good to go next season.
To all the other people who have posted about the omnipotent manufacturers and that they know best, mostly true but remember that they do not want to spend 3 times as much for the proper fuel system components when they can make much more on repairing/replacing your equipment all the while blaming it all on ethanol. No warrantees cover bad gas no matter how fresh (you think) it is.
Ethanol blend will attack your small engine fuel system. Old ethanol blend is 100 times worse.
I am old but still smart because I listen and read and don't believe 100% of either.
The plastics used in most small engine fuel systems are bad. Blame the manufacturers for cheaping out.
Old gas is bad, alcohol or not. Alcohol is hygroscopic and will absorb water until it falls out of solution with the gasoline. This alcohol is very rich in oxygen (from the water) and will attack plastics, rubber and especially aluminum.
Ethanol free gas can be stored up to 8 times longer than blended gas.
Unless there is 10 to 15 points difference (higher) in octane rating there will be no measurable difference in power output in your small engine.
Add a nice hot glowing piece of carbon deposit in your weed eaters combustion chamber and you will learn all about preignition and will never run regular in your small two stroke again.
I have replaced all the fuel lines in my older equipment because of failure due to ethanol. I have had fewer problems if I drain all the fuel before storing but this seems to cause the diaphragms in my two stroke carbs to become brittle and fail (conjecture on my part). In carburetors with floats ALL the gas needs to be drained, even the little bit remaining after "running" it dry can still cause problems. The aluminum oxide (white rust) created by the ethanol and water will find it's way into the carb's pilot jet (idle circuit) and is mostly impossible to remove especially in the newer fixed jet carbs.
I have worked on small engines before ethanol and have found carb bowls half full of water (condensation from the fuel tank) and just drained and cleaned the tank and carb bowl and they usually started right up with fresh gas. Since ethanol no such luck especially if white scaly deposits are present. If you suspect that a piece of equipment has sat a long time, do NOT try to start. Drain and clean the fuel system first. This might save you the cost of a new carb.
My advice: Ethanol blend, four strokes with float bowels, drain ALL gas and run dry with choke on and, if possible, drain float bowl. Good till next season. Two strokes, drain all gas, fill with fresh fuel mixed with stabilizer and hope for the best.
Non ethanol gas, fill with fresh and run for a short time. Stabilizer an option but a good idea. Good to go next season.
To all the other people who have posted about the omnipotent manufacturers and that they know best, mostly true but remember that they do not want to spend 3 times as much for the proper fuel system components when they can make much more on repairing/replacing your equipment all the while blaming it all on ethanol. No warrantees cover bad gas no matter how fresh (you think) it is.
Ethanol blend will attack your small engine fuel system. Old ethanol blend is 100 times worse.
I am old but still smart because I listen and read and don't believe 100% of either.
#47
S
sven.gizmo
S
sven.gizmo
[TCW-IIIQUOTE=hcooper;117643]I wouldn't be using high octane fuel in a mower engine, or in any engine that doesn't require hi-test in the operating instructions. High octane doesn't make the fuel more "powerful", it only resists knocks and pre-ignition in engines that require hi-test gas. It does this my having a higher resistance to ignation that regular gas. This, in turn, make the frame front slower, and the gas charge burns longer. In a mower engine, this gas can still be burning at max temperature when your exhaust valve opens, and that doesn't add to the life of the valve or the valve seat if you use this fuel all the time. If you hate ethanol, then get the good old 87 octane, and add about 8 oz. of Marvel Mystery Oil to about 5 gallons of gas. I've used it since the ethanol belnds came out, and I've never ad an issue.
As for outboard engines, if you have a 2-stroke, I'm not sure what they recommend now, but it used to be a no-no to use hi-test gas. With the 2-stroke, using the proper oil and gas/oil mix shoudl negate any bad stuuf regarding ethanol. You can substitute an ounce of MMO for one ounce of 2-stroke oil and be safe, also.
As for hi-revving 2-strokes like chain saws, there is a fuel additive that combats ethanol woes. It's blue and I just can't think of the name. Most hardware and saw stores sell it, and it's not that expensive, considering the small amount of fuel these little engines use. Don't use hi-test in these engines either, as they will get way to hot. Be sure to use GOOD 2-stroke oil. I've used Wal-Mart's Super-Tech TCW-III 2-stroke oil for years, and it's seems to be just fine. It might be Wal-Mart's brand name, but they sure don't make it! Just mix it per what the engine maker says.....more isn't better![/QUOTE]
FYI: TCW-III oils are NOT recommended for air cooled two strokes. Can't take the higher exhaust temps of air cooled. You will never ever burn an exhaust valve using higher octane gas. Fuel is still burning in ALL gas engines when the exhaust port/valve opens. Using premium fuel instead of regular is just wasting money if not required. Premium fuel will NOT damage an engine. Marvel Mystery (snake) Oil might offer some protection from ethanol but don't tell a manufacturer that you used it as partial replacement for two stroke oil (wow!). While I respect your opinion, some of your statements fly in the face of known facts. As for premium gas in two stroke outboards (in olden times), yes it was true because the higher lead content would build up on the exhaust ports but it's been at least 30 years since leaded pump gas. The Blue Stuff is Sta-Bil. I can only surmise that you are older than I and I'm really old.
As for outboard engines, if you have a 2-stroke, I'm not sure what they recommend now, but it used to be a no-no to use hi-test gas. With the 2-stroke, using the proper oil and gas/oil mix shoudl negate any bad stuuf regarding ethanol. You can substitute an ounce of MMO for one ounce of 2-stroke oil and be safe, also.
As for hi-revving 2-strokes like chain saws, there is a fuel additive that combats ethanol woes. It's blue and I just can't think of the name. Most hardware and saw stores sell it, and it's not that expensive, considering the small amount of fuel these little engines use. Don't use hi-test in these engines either, as they will get way to hot. Be sure to use GOOD 2-stroke oil. I've used Wal-Mart's Super-Tech TCW-III 2-stroke oil for years, and it's seems to be just fine. It might be Wal-Mart's brand name, but they sure don't make it! Just mix it per what the engine maker says.....more isn't better![/QUOTE]
FYI: TCW-III oils are NOT recommended for air cooled two strokes. Can't take the higher exhaust temps of air cooled. You will never ever burn an exhaust valve using higher octane gas. Fuel is still burning in ALL gas engines when the exhaust port/valve opens. Using premium fuel instead of regular is just wasting money if not required. Premium fuel will NOT damage an engine. Marvel Mystery (snake) Oil might offer some protection from ethanol but don't tell a manufacturer that you used it as partial replacement for two stroke oil (wow!). While I respect your opinion, some of your statements fly in the face of known facts. As for premium gas in two stroke outboards (in olden times), yes it was true because the higher lead content would build up on the exhaust ports but it's been at least 30 years since leaded pump gas. The Blue Stuff is Sta-Bil. I can only surmise that you are older than I and I'm really old.
#48
M
Mini Motors
M
Mini Motors
DO NOT EVER substitute MMO for any portion of 2 cycle oil. It is a wonderful top end oil, but can clog carbs. If you've done this and gotten away without anything bad happening, you've been lucky. It also is not designed to burn well like proper 2 cycle oil. BITD, my Dad would make a "cocktail" of MMO and denatured alcohol,and other things(dry gas?), and pour it straight down the carb of the car. The neighborhood would fill with huge clouds of smoke. Downwind from the driveway, there would be noticeably fewer mosquitoes for days. But it also would choke out the engine eventually. He would stop just before choking out a couple times and then choke it out on purpose. The choking out is partly due to air/"fuel" ratio being way off in this situation, but also because MMO isn't made to burn.
And let's be clear about what is bad about ethanol. If you look at the "recipe" of gas, you'd know that there are way stronger solvents that can react with plastic/rubber than ethanol in our gasolines. The two issues regarding ethanol are 1. it's ability to attract water, and corrode certain parts in the fuel system, and 2. it's ability to add to the carbon build up that already happens. I don't know of anything that will address the corrosion issue. Sea Foam does help stop, and in time, remove the carbon build up, and should be used, even in ethanol free gasoline.
And let's be clear about what is bad about ethanol. If you look at the "recipe" of gas, you'd know that there are way stronger solvents that can react with plastic/rubber than ethanol in our gasolines. The two issues regarding ethanol are 1. it's ability to attract water, and corrode certain parts in the fuel system, and 2. it's ability to add to the carbon build up that already happens. I don't know of anything that will address the corrosion issue. Sea Foam does help stop, and in time, remove the carbon build up, and should be used, even in ethanol free gasoline.
#49
T
Tom59
Might want to look at Stihls website they recommend 91 octane 89 octane min. Most of these two strokes are high performance based engines high reving mine runs at 14,000rpm iirc.
Gasoline Guidelines for STIHL Outdoor Power Equipment | STIHL USA Mobile
I prefer in all my two strokes Royal Purple synthetic....
http://royalpurpleconsumer.com/products/hp-2c-2-cycle-engine-oil/?gclid=CIezztvkqrgCFUqk4AodYEUAoQ
T
Tom59
As for hi-revving 2-strokes like chain saws, there is a fuel additive that combats ethanol woes. It's blue and I just can't think of the name. Most hardware and saw stores sell it, and it's not that expensive, considering the small amount of fuel these little engines use. Don't use hi-test in these engines either, as they will get way to hot. Be sure to use GOOD 2-stroke oil. I've used Wal-Mart's Super-Tech TCW-III 2-stroke oil for years, and it's seems to be just fine. It might be Wal-Mart's brand name, but they sure don't make it! Just mix it per what the engine maker says.....more isn't better!
Might want to look at Stihls website they recommend 91 octane 89 octane min. Most of these two strokes are high performance based engines high reving mine runs at 14,000rpm iirc.
Gasoline Guidelines for STIHL Outdoor Power Equipment | STIHL USA Mobile
I prefer in all my two strokes Royal Purple synthetic....
http://royalpurpleconsumer.com/products/hp-2c-2-cycle-engine-oil/?gclid=CIezztvkqrgCFUqk4AodYEUAoQ
#50
M
Mini Motors
M
Mini Motors
I also use a synthetic oil. I've been using it since before it was commonly available for lawn equipment. I used to work in a motorcycle shop, where 2 stroke synthetics were first seen(at least by me). I got one suitable for 50:1, and have stuck with it ever since. But I got in trouble once, as it didn't have a dye in it(back then), and a new blower had a piston explode in the first 10 minutes. The shop took it in, but refused to honor the warranty at first, because of the lack of visual evidence of oil in the gas. They did a test of the gas, by dipping a piece of paper towel in the gas and looking at it a day later. Gas evaporates, and oil doesn't, so the oil on the paper tower saved me the cost of that repair. I still use the same oil, but they have added a dye.
#51
S
sorefeet
Here in Australia, the fuel bowsers have warning signs up advising against the use of ethanol added fuel in small engines. I refuse to use it at all.
S
sorefeet
I'm not overly concerned with the added cost although my boat will suck. I'm concerned about running 91 octane in my small engines and my 2 stroke boat
Here in Australia, the fuel bowsers have warning signs up advising against the use of ethanol added fuel in small engines. I refuse to use it at all.
#52
djdicetn
I disagree that higher octane requires engine timing alteration. Before the mandated ethanol 10% at 95% of the stations, I ran Amoco Premium(non-ethanol) in my lawn tractor, boat(125hp Mercury 2-stroke outboard), weed eater, etc. and both of my vehicles(a 1995 Chevy Silverado with a 350 V8 which "requires" regular 87 octane and a 2001 Lincoln LS with a 3.9L V8 that "requires" premium 91+ octane). Absolutely peak performance in ALL of that equipment and 0% fuel-related problems. After running premium(with ethanol) in the 2001 LS for a couple of years both(yeah, it's got two) electric fuel pumps went out(a $250 repair). Mechanic said..."it's the ethanol"....PERIOD. But, with the price of premium non-ethanol, I've decided to run the mid-grade(89 octane) in my new ZTR and all small engine applications(and the boat). I will continue to use premium ethanol gas in my two vehicles with an ethanol fuel treatment every other tankful and a fuel system cleaner every 3,000 miles. I am going to try that for a while, but still may go to the premium non-ethanol for the 2001 LS. The Chevy truck seems to do OK with the ethanol fuel(but it has a "mechanical" fuel pump rather than an electric. Time will tell.
djdicetn
No ethanol= good
Higher octane, not so much. As discussed in another thread, a change in octane requires a change in timing, something you can't do in a small engine in a mower, walk behind or rider. Buy ethanol free if you can, but stick with the recommended octane in most anything you can't monkey with the timing on.
I disagree that higher octane requires engine timing alteration. Before the mandated ethanol 10% at 95% of the stations, I ran Amoco Premium(non-ethanol) in my lawn tractor, boat(125hp Mercury 2-stroke outboard), weed eater, etc. and both of my vehicles(a 1995 Chevy Silverado with a 350 V8 which "requires" regular 87 octane and a 2001 Lincoln LS with a 3.9L V8 that "requires" premium 91+ octane). Absolutely peak performance in ALL of that equipment and 0% fuel-related problems. After running premium(with ethanol) in the 2001 LS for a couple of years both(yeah, it's got two) electric fuel pumps went out(a $250 repair). Mechanic said..."it's the ethanol"....PERIOD. But, with the price of premium non-ethanol, I've decided to run the mid-grade(89 octane) in my new ZTR and all small engine applications(and the boat). I will continue to use premium ethanol gas in my two vehicles with an ethanol fuel treatment every other tankful and a fuel system cleaner every 3,000 miles. I am going to try that for a while, but still may go to the premium non-ethanol for the 2001 LS. The Chevy truck seems to do OK with the ethanol fuel(but it has a "mechanical" fuel pump rather than an electric. Time will tell.
#53
T
Tom59
T
Tom59
For anyone that's interested there are websites that let you know who has ethanol free gas in your area- google it - or Bing. I looked them up yesterday for my area only a few locally.
Find ethanol-free E0 gas stations
Find ethanol-free E0 gas stations
#54
M
Mini Motors
M
Mini Motors
djdicetn- first, nobody likes ethanol except corn farmers. But unless your mechanic did a chemical analysis of those fuel pumps, or is relying on a test done on those exact fuel pumps, or a similar pump made with the same materials, He's just venting his dislike of ethanol. Or just saying the easy thing, or telling you what he thinks you want to hear. I'm quite sure he didn't even take it apart. What mechanic has that kind of time? The fuel injection systems require a high pressure to move fuel. That's why there are two. They don't last long under those conditions.
And then I also have to disagree on your perceived performance of your smaller engines. Your cars and possibly your outboard have a computer that do monitor and adjust timing. But the small engines don't. And it is a fact that higher octane fuels burn slower and longer. So ignition should start sooner, and in a perfect world, the exhaust lobe on the cam shaft should hold the valve open a tad longer as well for higher octane fuels. But mostly, you couldn't possibly "feel" any difference in small engine performance. At best, a small difference could be measurable on a dyno.
And then I also have to disagree on your perceived performance of your smaller engines. Your cars and possibly your outboard have a computer that do monitor and adjust timing. But the small engines don't. And it is a fact that higher octane fuels burn slower and longer. So ignition should start sooner, and in a perfect world, the exhaust lobe on the cam shaft should hold the valve open a tad longer as well for higher octane fuels. But mostly, you couldn't possibly "feel" any difference in small engine performance. At best, a small difference could be measurable on a dyno.
#55
djdicetn
Nope, he didn't have to take it apart....he knows the type of plastic used in the diaphrams of these particular(2001....pre-ethanol) fuel pumps(and has mfg info that states that ethanol deteriorates that type of plastic) used in my vehicle. And....he's been a mechanic for 40 years and he can attest to the measurable incremental "proliferation" of these repairs in his shop since the "mandated introduction" of 10% ethanol fuels. I never said I noticed "increased performance" when using pre-ethanol "premium octane" fuels in small/marine engines or my vehicles(anf post-ethanol premium octane currently). What I said was "0% fuel-related problems" for pre-ethanol usage which means no fuel pump problems, carb/injector problems, reduced mpg(about 2-6mpg less with ethanol) and 230,000 miles on the Chevy Silverado with the 350 V8(original engine) and nothing but premium gas in it since day one. Argue that statistic!!!!
djdicetn
djdicetn- first, nobody likes ethanol except corn farmers. But unless your mechanic did a chemical analysis of those fuel pumps, or is relying on a test done on those exact fuel pumps, or a similar pump made with the same materials, He's just venting his dislike of ethanol. Or just saying the easy thing, or telling you what he thinks you want to hear. I'm quite sure he didn't even take it apart. What mechanic has that kind of time? The fuel injection systems require a high pressure to move fuel. That's why there are two. They don't last long under those conditions.
And then I also have to disagree on your perceived performance of your smaller engines. Your cars and possibly your outboard have a computer that do monitor and adjust timing. But the small engines don't. And it is a fact that higher octane fuels burn slower and longer. So ignition should start sooner, and in a perfect world, the exhaust lobe on the cam shaft should hold the valve open a tad longer as well for higher octane fuels. But mostly, you couldn't possibly "feel" any difference in small engine performance. At best, a small difference could be measurable on a dyno.
Nope, he didn't have to take it apart....he knows the type of plastic used in the diaphrams of these particular(2001....pre-ethanol) fuel pumps(and has mfg info that states that ethanol deteriorates that type of plastic) used in my vehicle. And....he's been a mechanic for 40 years and he can attest to the measurable incremental "proliferation" of these repairs in his shop since the "mandated introduction" of 10% ethanol fuels. I never said I noticed "increased performance" when using pre-ethanol "premium octane" fuels in small/marine engines or my vehicles(anf post-ethanol premium octane currently). What I said was "0% fuel-related problems" for pre-ethanol usage which means no fuel pump problems, carb/injector problems, reduced mpg(about 2-6mpg less with ethanol) and 230,000 miles on the Chevy Silverado with the 350 V8(original engine) and nothing but premium gas in it since day one. Argue that statistic!!!!
#56
M
Mini Motors
M
Mini Motors
I'd not argue. But it is what I said, "mfg info" in your words. And regarding your previous words "Absolutely peak performance", I might have read a bit more into it. My apologies. It doesn't surprise me that your mileage is worse. But I am curious about how 2001 Chevy carb plastic is susceptible to ethanol issues, but my 70s Honda motorcycles aren't. I've owned a couple, and plastics were just started to be used. My '73 CB350F runs just fine, although that shouldn't really surprise me either. Honda saw the writing on the wall regarding lead removal from gas, and used hardened valves from the start('59 for importing into the U.S.). I doubt they could predict ethanol, but maybe they just lucked out.
I just don't see how getting 100k miles out of a fuel pump is so bad though. We don't start looking for excuses when a alternator goes in 100k. Since the advent of computers in cars, power demands have doubled and tripled. My '74 van w/ a 350V8 had a 46 amp alt., and an upgrade was a 60. Today's smaller cars are over 100. And they're about the same size as the old ones, and the tech hasn't improved that much.
I just don't see how getting 100k miles out of a fuel pump is so bad though. We don't start looking for excuses when a alternator goes in 100k. Since the advent of computers in cars, power demands have doubled and tripled. My '74 van w/ a 350V8 had a 46 amp alt., and an upgrade was a 60. Today's smaller cars are over 100. And they're about the same size as the old ones, and the tech hasn't improved that much.
#57
M
Maine Yankee
M
Maine Yankee
The dry gas you mention comes in 2 types, the methyl or ethyl actually is an agricultural product, very similar to the ethyl alcohol that we all dislike, and it is ok for routine summer use, It stays separated from petroleum products) but the "good" dry gas, that will actually mix with ice, or water, and let you re start a frozen fuel system, is isopropyl alcohol, will combine with moisture and become a true drying agent. Years ago while working in a service station, there was a demo that would use small amount of water in a test tube, and a small amount of each product. You could see the water stay at the bottom of the tube with the methyl, but disappear and become one with the isopropylI'm not too young to remember. I remember pimging, dieseling, and vapor lock....
Bruce
#58
djdicetn
Both my Gravely and Kawasaki manuals state that if I use gasoline with more than a 10% ethanol content that it will void my warranty. So, if they started selling E85 ethanol gas, which with all the new "flex fuel" vehicles they surely will, do you think I would ignore the manufacturer's info and run E85 in my Gravely? I don't think so, unless Gravely specifically rescinds that policy in writing or provides a dealer installed workaround. The manufacturer of the electric fuel pumps in the 2001 Lincoln LS sent out warnings that E90(10% ethanol) gasoline would cause unwarranted damage to their fuel pumps(they, nor Form Motor Company provided a "recall/replacement" fuel pump because the cars were of a model year prior to the nationwide rollout of E90 and non-ethanol fuel was still available for purchase). Unfortunately, only repair shops and dealerships were sent this information, not the consumers who purchased affected vehicles. I guess you may be right in the sense that the car is 12 years old and had 120K miles on it before the fuel pumps died(probably 80K miles of that was using ethanol gas). I still think our government(EPA) mandating E90 and before it's over mandating E85 is a travesty in and of itself. If they force E85 down our throats I'll probably sell my cars and buy an electric Leaf or Volt!!!
djdicetn
I'd not argue. But it is what I said, "mfg info" in your words. And regarding your previous words "Absolutely peak performance", I might have read a bit more into it. My apologies. It doesn't surprise me that your mileage is worse. But I am curious about how 2001 Chevy carb plastic is susceptible to ethanol issues, but my 70s Honda motorcycles aren't. I've owned a couple, and plastics were just started to be used. My '73 CB350F runs just fine, although that shouldn't really surprise me either. Honda saw the writing on the wall regarding lead removal from gas, and used hardened valves from the start('59 for importing into the U.S.). I doubt they could predict ethanol, but maybe they just lucked out.
I just don't see how getting 100k miles out of a fuel pump is so bad though. We don't start looking for excuses when a alternator goes in 100k. Since the advent of computers in cars, power demands have doubled and tripled. My '74 van w/ a 350V8 had a 46 amp alt., and an upgrade was a 60. Today's smaller cars are over 100. And they're about the same size as the old ones, and the tech hasn't improved that much.
Both my Gravely and Kawasaki manuals state that if I use gasoline with more than a 10% ethanol content that it will void my warranty. So, if they started selling E85 ethanol gas, which with all the new "flex fuel" vehicles they surely will, do you think I would ignore the manufacturer's info and run E85 in my Gravely? I don't think so, unless Gravely specifically rescinds that policy in writing or provides a dealer installed workaround. The manufacturer of the electric fuel pumps in the 2001 Lincoln LS sent out warnings that E90(10% ethanol) gasoline would cause unwarranted damage to their fuel pumps(they, nor Form Motor Company provided a "recall/replacement" fuel pump because the cars were of a model year prior to the nationwide rollout of E90 and non-ethanol fuel was still available for purchase). Unfortunately, only repair shops and dealerships were sent this information, not the consumers who purchased affected vehicles. I guess you may be right in the sense that the car is 12 years old and had 120K miles on it before the fuel pumps died(probably 80K miles of that was using ethanol gas). I still think our government(EPA) mandating E90 and before it's over mandating E85 is a travesty in and of itself. If they force E85 down our throats I'll probably sell my cars and buy an electric Leaf or Volt!!!
#59
P
phcaan
87 octane should work just fine in your Briggs engine. Years ago before computers high compression engines needed the higher octane to prevent pre-detonation, or ping. Now days most engines run about 8 to 1 compression and on top of that other than lawnmower type power plants the engines have computer control with knock sensors to change the timing as needed. If you use a higher octane fuel than your engine requires it won't make any difference, if you use a lower octane than recommended you may run into problems.
P
phcaan
Thanks for all of the advice guys. The only type of ethanol free gas I can get here in north Georgia is 87 octane. Don't know how that affects my 27 HP Kohler.
87 octane should work just fine in your Briggs engine. Years ago before computers high compression engines needed the higher octane to prevent pre-detonation, or ping. Now days most engines run about 8 to 1 compression and on top of that other than lawnmower type power plants the engines have computer control with knock sensors to change the timing as needed. If you use a higher octane fuel than your engine requires it won't make any difference, if you use a lower octane than recommended you may run into problems.
#60
djdicetn
djdicetn
Below is a link about my opinion(which I am quite vocal about) in another "ethanol debate" thread. For those of you like me that simply don't like ethanol blend gasoline, the link in my post below will give you a website where you can contact your legislators about supporting currently legislation before Congress to repeal the RFS(Renewable Fuel Standard) Act. Feel free to use it if that is your inclination(I did:0)
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/gener...-proof-bad-ethanol-problems-7.html#post131687
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/gener...-proof-bad-ethanol-problems-7.html#post131687
#61
D
den052
D
den052
So for proof of my knowledge of fuel systems, I am a Master Certified Car and Heavy Truck mechanic, certified in all areas of vehicle repair. Work on everything from a Volkswagen Beetle to a Freightliner.
I can assure you that ethanol is not good especially for 2 cycle engines in chain saws and etc. My Stihl chainsaw has a plastic gas cap that is getting exceedingly hard to screw into the tank because the threads (complete gas cap), have swollen from ethanol and it turns very hard.
Stihl sells a fuel with no ethanol for use in their chainsaws and weed whackers. It is about $8-9 dollars a QUART. A gallon would cost about $32.00
However a small airplane mechanic and I got to talking about ethanol in gasoline. The FAA will not let ethanol be used in aircraft fuel systems. So Aviation Gas (AVGAS), does not contain any ethanol. Come to find out, the general public can buy AVGAS too. Theres no restriction. He said all you have to do is go to a local airport, and ask someone where the pumps are to get it. Where I live, you just drive to the airport and insert your debit card in the pump and pump it into an appropriate container. It is about $5.00-$5.50 a gallon based on my location at the present time, but contains no ETHANOL. They apparently don't mind the public purchasing it either at that price per gallon.
It also has the unique ability to be used 2-3 years after you put it into a storage container and is just as potent as when you put it in (it doesn't get stale). So if you use your equipment seasonally, you don't need to purchase Stabil or drain your equipment. Many people would balk at the price being $1.00 to $2.00 more per gallon, but $25 worth would power a lot of chainsaws or mow your lawn all summer long at that price. Just like the old days with no ETHANOL.
I can assure you that ethanol is not good especially for 2 cycle engines in chain saws and etc. My Stihl chainsaw has a plastic gas cap that is getting exceedingly hard to screw into the tank because the threads (complete gas cap), have swollen from ethanol and it turns very hard.
Stihl sells a fuel with no ethanol for use in their chainsaws and weed whackers. It is about $8-9 dollars a QUART. A gallon would cost about $32.00
However a small airplane mechanic and I got to talking about ethanol in gasoline. The FAA will not let ethanol be used in aircraft fuel systems. So Aviation Gas (AVGAS), does not contain any ethanol. Come to find out, the general public can buy AVGAS too. Theres no restriction. He said all you have to do is go to a local airport, and ask someone where the pumps are to get it. Where I live, you just drive to the airport and insert your debit card in the pump and pump it into an appropriate container. It is about $5.00-$5.50 a gallon based on my location at the present time, but contains no ETHANOL. They apparently don't mind the public purchasing it either at that price per gallon.
It also has the unique ability to be used 2-3 years after you put it into a storage container and is just as potent as when you put it in (it doesn't get stale). So if you use your equipment seasonally, you don't need to purchase Stabil or drain your equipment. Many people would balk at the price being $1.00 to $2.00 more per gallon, but $25 worth would power a lot of chainsaws or mow your lawn all summer long at that price. Just like the old days with no ETHANOL.
#62
P
phcaan
P
phcaan
Thank you for that information, I am glad to know that I can purchase fuel that I can store and use through the year, I will go to the airport and check this out.So for proof of my knowledge of fuel systems, I am a Master Certified Car and Heavy Truck mechanic, certified in all areas of vehicle repair. Work on everything from a Volkswagen Beetle to a Freightliner.
I can assure you that ethanol is not good especially for 2 cycle engines in chain saws and etc. My Stihl chainsaw has a plastic gas cap that is getting exceedingly hard to screw into the tank because the threads (complete gas cap), have swollen from ethanol and it turns very hard.
Stihl sells a fuel with no ethanol for use in their chainsaws and weed whackers. It is about $8-9 dollars a QUART. A gallon would cost about $32.00
However a small airplane mechanic and I got to talking about ethanol in gasoline. The FAA will not let ethanol be used in aircraft fuel systems. So Aviation Gas (AVGAS), does not contain any ethanol. Come to find out, the general public can buy AVGAS too. Theres no restriction. He said all you have to do is go to a local airport, and ask someone where the pumps are to get it. Where I live, you just drive to the airport and insert your debit card in the pump and pump it into an appropriate container. It is about $5.00-$5.50 a gallon based on my location at the present time, but contains no ETHANOL. They apparently don't mind the public purchasing it either at that price per gallon.
It also has the unique ability to be used 2-3 years after you put it into a storage container and is just as potent as when you put it in (it doesn't get stale). So if you use your equipment seasonally, you don't need to purchase Stabil or drain your equipment. Many people would balk at the price being $1.00 to $2.00 more per gallon, but $25 worth would power a lot of chainsaws or mow your lawn all summer long at that price. Just like the old days with no ETHANOL.
#63
P
Pochie
Hi. Thank you for the great information. I am only 10 miles from a local airport so I will check it out. I bought gallon of Seafoam and put a dose in each gas container when I get home. The AV gas would be good to use as the last fillup in the Fall. I have been draining all my machines and running them dry but this may be an easier solution. Have a good day.
P
Pochie
So for proof of my knowledge of fuel systems, I am a Master Certified Car and Heavy Truck mechanic, certified in all areas of vehicle repair. Work on everything from a Volkswagen Beetle to a Freightliner.
I can assure you that ethanol is not good especially for 2 cycle engines in chain saws and etc. My Stihl chainsaw has a plastic gas cap that is getting exceedingly hard to screw into the tank because the threads (complete gas cap), have swollen from ethanol and it turns very hard.
Stihl sells a fuel with no ethanol for use in their chainsaws and weed whackers. It is about $8-9 dollars a QUART. A gallon would cost about $32.00
However a small airplane mechanic and I got to talking about ethanol in gasoline. The FAA will not let ethanol be used in aircraft fuel systems. So Aviation Gas (AVGAS), does not contain any ethanol. Come to find out, the general public can buy AVGAS too. Theres no restriction. He said all you have to do is go to a local airport, and ask someone where the pumps are to get it. Where I live, you just drive to the airport and insert your debit card in the pump and pump it into an appropriate container. It is about $5.00-$5.50 a gallon based on my location at the present time, but contains no ETHANOL. They apparently don't mind the public purchasing it either at that price per gallon.
It also has the unique ability to be used 2-3 years after you put it into a storage container and is just as potent as when you put it in (it doesn't get stale). So if you use your equipment seasonally, you don't need to purchase Stabil or drain your equipment. Many people would balk at the price being $1.00 to $2.00 more per gallon, but $25 worth would power a lot of chainsaws or mow your lawn all summer long at that price. Just like the old days with no ETHANOL.
Hi. Thank you for the great information. I am only 10 miles from a local airport so I will check it out. I bought gallon of Seafoam and put a dose in each gas container when I get home. The AV gas would be good to use as the last fillup in the Fall. I have been draining all my machines and running them dry but this may be an easier solution. Have a good day.
#64
T
Tom59
We have a Sunoco dealer here that sells race gas - 110 octane about 6.00 a gallon. You can also buy barrels of 114 octane-118 octane - but need to transport 55 gallon drums.
I could not agree more. I've even mixed them with excellent results. Ethanol is bad news. I've also had gas caps hard to get on - didn't even think about the fuels? The new engines run special fuel lines, special injection - carbs, special computers.....and different metals for engines just to run it in cars and trucks. Hence the term flex fuels. Pumps are different - beefed up.
Why do they do all that to run ethanol if its good for the engine or fuel components. Corrosive - you betcha.
T
Tom59
So for proof of my knowledge of fuel systems, I am a Master Certified Car and Heavy Truck mechanic, certified in all areas of vehicle repair. Work on everything from a Volkswagen Beetle to a Freightliner.
I can assure you that ethanol is not good especially for 2 cycle engines in chain saws and etc. My Stihl chainsaw has a plastic gas cap that is getting exceedingly hard to screw into the tank because the threads (complete gas cap), have swollen from ethanol and it turns very hard.
Stihl sells a fuel with no ethanol for use in their chainsaws and weed whackers. It is about $8-9 dollars a QUART. A gallon would cost about $32.00
However a small airplane mechanic and I got to talking about ethanol in gasoline. The FAA will not let ethanol be used in aircraft fuel systems. So Aviation Gas (AVGAS), does not contain any ethanol. Come to find out, the general public can buy AVGAS too. Theres no restriction. He said all you have to do is go to a local airport, and ask someone where the pumps are to get it. Where I live, you just drive to the airport and insert your debit card in the pump and pump it into an appropriate container. It is about $5.00-$5.50 a gallon based on my location at the present time, but contains no ETHANOL. They apparently don't mind the public purchasing it either at that price per gallon.
It also has the unique ability to be used 2-3 years after you put it into a storage container and is just as potent as when you put it in (it doesn't get stale). So if you use your equipment seasonally, you don't need to purchase Stabil or drain your equipment. Many people would balk at the price being $1.00 to $2.00 more per gallon, but $25 worth would power a lot of chainsaws or mow your lawn all summer long at that price. Just like the old days with no ETHANOL.
We have a Sunoco dealer here that sells race gas - 110 octane about 6.00 a gallon. You can also buy barrels of 114 octane-118 octane - but need to transport 55 gallon drums.
I could not agree more. I've even mixed them with excellent results. Ethanol is bad news. I've also had gas caps hard to get on - didn't even think about the fuels? The new engines run special fuel lines, special injection - carbs, special computers.....and different metals for engines just to run it in cars and trucks. Hence the term flex fuels. Pumps are different - beefed up.
Why do they do all that to run ethanol if its good for the engine or fuel components. Corrosive - you betcha.
#66
iMower
iMower
I am just an old street machine builder who used to buy higher octane AVGAS to run in supercharged cars that I built and drove around on Saturday night. You know what the car looked like, shiny paint, chrome wheels, and a GMC 6-71 supercharger sticking out of the hood with a couple of Holley carburetors topped by a sharp looking air cleaner. The classic beauty of a 3 inch wide timing belt with Goodyear and the Wingfoot Logo printed on it is a fond memory. The cop sitting next to me at a traffic light watching the Goodyear logo as it flashed by on the belt still makes me laugh to myself. The point of all of this is that when you put your foot on the floor, the intake manifold pressure went up to 22 pounds and the car moved instantly. Using anything less than AVGAS with this effective compression ratio caused severe engine knocking and would destroy the engine quickly. Our local airport was kind enough to sell me that wonderful gasoline, with the caveat that it be put into approved gas cans/containers, not a motor vehicle, since there is no road tax on AVGAS. Therefore, when you go to your friendly local airport, be sure to take proper containers that are in good condition. It is perfectly legal since you are not using it on the road and they will appreciate your business.
I no longer have the car, but I have the memories and my gas cans, which I use to fill my generator (4 stroke Generac) and 2 cycle Stihl and Echo tools. I have still been using Stabil in my generator AVGAS. Can anyone confirm that you do not need Stabil in AVGAS used in generators in long storage and how long it will last? It is important that my generator starts when needed, with no hassle.
I no longer have the car, but I have the memories and my gas cans, which I use to fill my generator (4 stroke Generac) and 2 cycle Stihl and Echo tools. I have still been using Stabil in my generator AVGAS. Can anyone confirm that you do not need Stabil in AVGAS used in generators in long storage and how long it will last? It is important that my generator starts when needed, with no hassle.
#67
BKBrown
BKBrown
I don't know if you NEED to ad Sta-Bil, but it will help keep condensation from making water in the bottom of your tank. I use the marine formula (blue) and my weed eater, chipper, and chain saws do not have problems after storage. Sta-Bil won't hurt anything and it is cheap insurance.
#68
iMower
iMower
Thanks for the reply BK. How long have you stored the fuel and had it survive? I usually get 5 gallon containers and rotate the fuel for the generator through the mowers, which keeps the age down to one season. However, I would like to keep gas in the generator so I could start it as soon as the power fails. Since I bought the generator, the power has not failed for over 5 minutes. I think that is a Murphy's Law corollary, that is, if you do not own a generator the power will fail for hours in the dead of winter, if you buy a generator your power will be solid forever.
If I thought it would last a year, I could keep the generator filled and ready. That is why I thought Stabil with the quality of AVGAS mentioned in this thread would make that possible. I could then drain the fuel in the spring and use it in the mowers.
If I thought it would last a year, I could keep the generator filled and ready. That is why I thought Stabil with the quality of AVGAS mentioned in this thread would make that possible. I could then drain the fuel in the spring and use it in the mowers.
#69
djdicetn
The Stabil(red) Fuel Stabilizer states that it will keep gasoline fresh for up to 12 months if added per directions.
djdicetn
Thanks for the reply BK. How long have you stored the fuel and had it survive? I usually get 5 gallon containers and rotate the fuel for the generator through the mowers, which keeps the age down to one season. However, I would like to keep gas in the generator so I could start it as soon as the power fails. Since I bought the generator, the power has not failed for over 5 minutes. I think that is a Murphy's Law corollary, that is, if you do not own a generator the power will fail for hours in the dead of winter, if you buy a generator your power will be solid forever.
If I thought it would last a year, I could keep the generator filled and ready. That is why I thought Stabil with the quality of AVGAS mentioned in this thread would make that possible. I could then drain the fuel in the spring and use it in the mowers.
The Stabil(red) Fuel Stabilizer states that it will keep gasoline fresh for up to 12 months if added per directions.
#70
BKBrown
BKBrown
The last poster is correct. The fuel should last a year, but personally, I would change it out and use the older fuel when there is not a threat that you may need the generator. Fresh fuel in the generator is something I would prefer to have. We have a whole house propane generator now, but the gas generator that we did have was kept full of fresher fuel.
I would check the available web sites that will help you find ethanol free gas and also add the Sta-Bil for something like a generator.
I would check the available web sites that will help you find ethanol free gas and also add the Sta-Bil for something like a generator.
#71
iMower
Be aware that you cannot get gasoline out of your vehicles with a siphon because the government banned it. I have 40 - 50 gallons of fuel that I could use in a blizzard/storm/emergency, but no way to get to it. Plan accordingly. If anyone knows how I can get it out in an emergency, I would really appreciate hearing how.
When someone mentioned using AVGAS it was enlightening because as I mentioned above, I used to get it for my street machines but never thought of it for mowers. In those days we had lead but no alcohol. I live in Ohio and the nearest marina with no alcohol is about 150+ miles from here, but my friendly local general aviation airport is about 6 miles from here. Someone mentioned that you did not need Stabil with AVGAS, and I wondered. I guess the best idea would be to use AVGAS with Stabil for maximum benefit, and keep the generator filled since it would make for a faster start in the dark.
iMower
I have been using pump gas and adding Stabil in my 5 gallon containers, which were used up in the summer and filled with fresh pump gas and Stabil. My bottle says it keeps fuel functional for 12 months. However, Ohio winters are about 6 months long and the fuel is left in the cans because I know that I probably won't need to use it (and I am too lazy to drain the generator if I can avoid it.):smile:The Stabil(red) Fuel Stabilizer states that it will keep gasoline fresh for up to 12 months if added per directions.
Be aware that you cannot get gasoline out of your vehicles with a siphon because the government banned it. I have 40 - 50 gallons of fuel that I could use in a blizzard/storm/emergency, but no way to get to it. Plan accordingly. If anyone knows how I can get it out in an emergency, I would really appreciate hearing how.
When someone mentioned using AVGAS it was enlightening because as I mentioned above, I used to get it for my street machines but never thought of it for mowers. In those days we had lead but no alcohol. I live in Ohio and the nearest marina with no alcohol is about 150+ miles from here, but my friendly local general aviation airport is about 6 miles from here. Someone mentioned that you did not need Stabil with AVGAS, and I wondered. I guess the best idea would be to use AVGAS with Stabil for maximum benefit, and keep the generator filled since it would make for a faster start in the dark.
#72
exotion
exotion
Emptying gas out of a vehicle is easy open hood disconnect fuel line from fuel rail. Run a rubber hose/tube to gas can turn car on start but don't start it. Watch gas can fill up.
#73
iMower
Thanks for the information. Of course, I will have to find out where the connection to the fuel rail is located. I am certain that it will be hidden, inaccessible, and very tight. :laughing: Have you pumped 5 or 10 gallons of gas at one shot out of an auto tank this way? I would not want to overload the pump, which seems unlikely since I guess it is running whenever the engine is running. In an emergency, I would want to get at least 5 gallons if at all possible so I can add lots of time to my generator while my wife is holding the flashlight so I can put gas in. This sounds like a place to add a valve and cap to make it easy. Do you have any thoughts on that?
iMower
Emptying gas out of a vehicle is easy open hood disconnect fuel line from fuel rail. Run a rubber hose/tube to gas can turn car on start but don't start it. Watch gas can fill up.
Thanks for the information. Of course, I will have to find out where the connection to the fuel rail is located. I am certain that it will be hidden, inaccessible, and very tight. :laughing: Have you pumped 5 or 10 gallons of gas at one shot out of an auto tank this way? I would not want to overload the pump, which seems unlikely since I guess it is running whenever the engine is running. In an emergency, I would want to get at least 5 gallons if at all possible so I can add lots of time to my generator while my wife is holding the flashlight so I can put gas in. This sounds like a place to add a valve and cap to make it easy. Do you have any thoughts on that?
#74
exotion
exotion
I've emptied a 20 gallon tank this way. I was looking for a siphon at my old job to change out fuel filter my old boss was like what are you doing. He got 4 5 gallon jugs ready showed me how was quick and easy. Just watch your battery you shouldn't kill your battery this way but you never know
#75
2
2manyboats
2
2manyboats
Check to see if any local stations carry ethanol free gas -- buyrealgas.com Ethanol Free Gas Stations/QUOTE]
This web site is woefully out of date for Texas. There are three stations selling No-E gas just in my immediate area that are missing from this site.
#76
7394
7394
Easy finding 100% gas here, 87/ 89 & 93 octanes. So much farming around here.
Good stuff, I even tested it from a new location, & it was E-Free as well.
Good stuff, I even tested it from a new location, & it was E-Free as well.
#77
D
Darryl G
D
Darryl G
First of all, keep in mind that there are different octane rating systems used in different countries. In most countries, the Research Octane Rating (RON) is used. In the US and Canada the Anti-Knock Index (AKI) octane rating system is used, often given as (R+M)/2 on pumps. In effect this means that the octane number given in the US at the pump is 4 to 6 Octane numbers lower than elsewhere. So if you have a piece of equipment from Europe, be sure to check to check which Octane rating system is used if the manual states the minimum octane recommended. If it says minimum 89 RON then it's fine to use 87 AKI. Lately most manuals I've seen are giving the minimum recommended Octane using the AKI rating system, but historically many gave the RON instead.
I'm willing to pay a good bit more for ethanol-free gasoline, but it isn't available at the pump in my area at all. My state is in an area that is in non-compliant with Federal air quality standards so all of our gasoline has up to 10% ethanol added. I use 89 Octane is my mowers and my frequently-used handheld equipment. My seldom-used handhelds such as my chain saws, hedge trimmers, brush cutter and pole pruner all get fed 95 octane canned 50:1 ethanol-free gasoline at a cost of $27.50/gallon. It's expensive but if it saves me one fuel-related failure over the course of a year it's worth it to me. I also store my backup blowers and trimmers with canned ethanol-free gasoline. So pretty much all of my handheld equipment except my main trimmer and blower runs and/or is stored with canned Ethanol-free gasoline. This has been a progressive change for me that started with just my chain saws.
I do use Star-Tron fuel additive for winterizing my larger equipment (mowers, snowblowers and wheel blower) that is running Ethanol fuel. It seems to work and I have had it solve surging from equipment stored too long with Ethanol fuel.
I'm willing to pay a good bit more for ethanol-free gasoline, but it isn't available at the pump in my area at all. My state is in an area that is in non-compliant with Federal air quality standards so all of our gasoline has up to 10% ethanol added. I use 89 Octane is my mowers and my frequently-used handheld equipment. My seldom-used handhelds such as my chain saws, hedge trimmers, brush cutter and pole pruner all get fed 95 octane canned 50:1 ethanol-free gasoline at a cost of $27.50/gallon. It's expensive but if it saves me one fuel-related failure over the course of a year it's worth it to me. I also store my backup blowers and trimmers with canned ethanol-free gasoline. So pretty much all of my handheld equipment except my main trimmer and blower runs and/or is stored with canned Ethanol-free gasoline. This has been a progressive change for me that started with just my chain saws.
I do use Star-Tron fuel additive for winterizing my larger equipment (mowers, snowblowers and wheel blower) that is running Ethanol fuel. It seems to work and I have had it solve surging from equipment stored too long with Ethanol fuel.
#78
John R
John R
Been using ethanol free 91 octane in all my power equipment for years, where it really shines is in chainsaws.
#79
7394
7394
The Sta-Bil has a limited shelf life once the bottle is opened. That's one thing more I like about Seafoam* never goes bad in the bottle, & can stabilize gas for a solid 2 years. I've tested it.
Walmart sells it (16 oz bottle) for $6.
Auto Parts usually want $ 11. or so. :confused2:
Walmart sells it (16 oz bottle) for $6.
Auto Parts usually want $ 11. or so. :confused2:
#80
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
I saw a bottle of Sea foam at Fred's..... A dollar type store for 10 bux a couple days ago....
I am waiting on 2 boxes of samples and kits from K 100 fuel treatment from the factory.. I am going to be a dealer for them.. That stuff works great... It makes the water in fuel burn and it is a stabilizer also.....
I am waiting on 2 boxes of samples and kits from K 100 fuel treatment from the factory.. I am going to be a dealer for them.. That stuff works great... It makes the water in fuel burn and it is a stabilizer also.....
#81
Ronno6
Ronno6
We have non-ethanol gas available from 4 or 5 stations within 8 miles; the closest is about 2 miles away.
The straight stuff is less expensive here than the 10% blend back in Fla.....one of the perks
of living in an oil State....
Since moving here 3+ years ago carb/fuel related problems are only something which I remember!
The straight stuff is less expensive here than the 10% blend back in Fla.....one of the perks
of living in an oil State....
Since moving here 3+ years ago carb/fuel related problems are only something which I remember!
#82
7394
7394
A fading bad memory, same here we have so much Ag (farming) 100% gas is readily available.
And if I ever use a new location, I test the 100% gas to be what it says it is.
And if I ever use a new location, I test the 100% gas to be what it says it is.
#83
R
Rickcin
We are forced to use it because politicians and big corporations are stuffing their pockets at our expense. It's a huge scam under the pretense of ecology, improving the environment, what a joke, it only improves their finances.
R
Rickcin
I use ethanol free in every thing I own.Write your State Representatives and ask why you are forced to buy gas with ethanol in it.It ruins engines,pollutes more and you get less mileage.Hint (can you say corn lobby!!!)Not only that but because the price has been driven up on corn,meat and dairy products.
We are forced to use it because politicians and big corporations are stuffing their pockets at our expense. It's a huge scam under the pretense of ecology, improving the environment, what a joke, it only improves their finances.
#84
Ronno6
Ronno6
I believe that I have read that ethanol, this "renewable" energy source, consumes more energy to manufacture
that it produces.Plus, it uses significant quantities of corn that would otherwise have been used to feed cattle.
Thus, driving up the price of feed corn and beef.........
Your government: there to protect you from yourself in spite of yourself.................
that it produces.Plus, it uses significant quantities of corn that would otherwise have been used to feed cattle.
Thus, driving up the price of feed corn and beef.........
Your government: there to protect you from yourself in spite of yourself.................
#85
B
bertsmobile1
No fan of ethanol either.
You either make the engine run on 100% ethanol like what we used to race with back till it got banned in the 80's or strait fuel, the two do not mix.
It is like being 1/2 pregnant .
Down here they are forcing it down our throats by mandating what percentage of total fuel sales has to be ethanol or they get fined and if they repeatidly fall short they loose their license to sell fuel.
When a no-ethanol station outsells the two nearby stations by a ration of near 2:1 despite being more expensive it says something that governments need to listen to if they want to remain governments.
AS an old ( totally unsuccessful ) bike racer, nothing would make me happier than to run my mower on Shell A + Castrol R.
OTOH in the country with the largest foreign debt on a per head of populations basis, anything that lowers the USA debt is a good thing cause if China called in the USA's debt every cent earned by every person in the USA for 5 years would have to go there to pay off the loans.
If Japan did the same it would take 12 years and you can add another one for the paper Korea holds.
Trying to find out how much paper the middle east holds is near impossible but I heard that Iran pre revolution held a massive amount of USA bonds as does Saudi Arabia.
B
bertsmobile1
We are forced to use it because politicians and big corporations are stuffing their pockets at our expense. It's a huge scam under the pretense of ecology, improving the environment, what a joke, it only improves their finances.
No fan of ethanol either.
You either make the engine run on 100% ethanol like what we used to race with back till it got banned in the 80's or strait fuel, the two do not mix.
It is like being 1/2 pregnant .
Down here they are forcing it down our throats by mandating what percentage of total fuel sales has to be ethanol or they get fined and if they repeatidly fall short they loose their license to sell fuel.
When a no-ethanol station outsells the two nearby stations by a ration of near 2:1 despite being more expensive it says something that governments need to listen to if they want to remain governments.
AS an old ( totally unsuccessful ) bike racer, nothing would make me happier than to run my mower on Shell A + Castrol R.
OTOH in the country with the largest foreign debt on a per head of populations basis, anything that lowers the USA debt is a good thing cause if China called in the USA's debt every cent earned by every person in the USA for 5 years would have to go there to pay off the loans.
If Japan did the same it would take 12 years and you can add another one for the paper Korea holds.
Trying to find out how much paper the middle east holds is near impossible but I heard that Iran pre revolution held a massive amount of USA bonds as does Saudi Arabia.
#86
Ronno6
I mostly raced on my Cannondale aluminum frame 14speed SR series bike w/Shimano Dura Ace components.
The only place for gas on that critter was in the digestive tract of the rider.............
Ronno6
I used to be a bike racer.AS an old ( totally unsuccessful ) bike racer, nothing would make me happier than to run my mower on Shell A + Castrol R.
I mostly raced on my Cannondale aluminum frame 14speed SR series bike w/Shimano Dura Ace components.
The only place for gas on that critter was in the digestive tract of the rider.............