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42a707 Won't Start - Troubleshooting help

#1

M

Madscrills

Preface: I already searched the forums and found a thread or two on similar issues already but they go into some detail that I'm unfamiliar with. Thus this thread.

A little background here. I'm a 27 year old male Computer Network Engineer with limited mechanical training. Though my father is a master senior technician for Ford so I think, with a little guidance from the pros here, I can probably get this old mower working again.

Was working before winter set in but now I turn the key and I hear a slight click but that's all it does. Where do I start with this? What tools will I need to borrow and are there any manuals readily available for doing any of the work I might need to do? I'm technically inclined and can follow directions pretty well I'm just inexperienced. Any help is appreciated. Thanks! :cool:


#2

Y

YT125

How old is the battery? Is it charged?


#3

reynoldston

reynoldston

Low amperage. Start with the battery cables, loose or dirty connections, bad cable, Check the battery as in earlier post, The starter solenoid could have bad contacts, bad starter??? If that all checks out good get a wiring diagram and check out all your safety switches. This should give you a good start.


#4

M

Mikel1

Yeah I would check to see what the battery voltage is. If low then charge back up. If there is still no change then have battery load tested. This can be done for free at most auto parts stores. Like reynoldston said check your connections.


#5

M

Madscrills

All great suggestions. I'll start with the battery and then keep you all posted on my progress(My first instinct as well). Thanks fellas.


#6

Y

YT125

As a side note these Briggs opposed twins have an undersized starter so a good battery is a must


#7

M

Madscrills

Great news everyone, I had the battery tested and it was totally dead. Bought another one and changed the spark plugs for kicks and she started right up.

Doing all this research on possible issues has got me thinking though. Are there some other things I could/should do that are within my realm of mechanical skill to improve the health and longevity of my lawn tractor?

Here's a list of things I could do off the top of my head.

1.) Change the oil
2.) Sharpen the blades
3.) Clear debris
4.) Re-Wire the tractor. (A lot of the current electrical wiring looks like it's been previously repaired with a lot of electrical tape).

Thanks for all of your wisdom to get my mower started again but now help me keep it running! :cool:


#8

B

bertsmobile1

you can not change the oil enough on these motors as there is no effective filteration.
Check the valve lash every season & adjust as soon as you see problems.
Take some compression readings wet & dry and keep them for refference.
Do it every season at THE END of the season along with an oil change.
They should slowly be going down as the engine wears when you get a sudden change then you know it is time for a valve job & new rings.
Caught early you can get 2 to 3 sets of rings out of a piston but once they start fouling the plugs, it is too late.
Clean the battery terminals and coat with liquid electrical tape.
I use long coach bolts fixed with wing nuts and leave the far end bare so there are contact points for chargers & jumper leads.
Blow the deck and around the cooling shrouds regularly to keep them clean & cool, A 2' to 3' duster gun is good because you can slip it under the engine shrouds and then do the under side of the chassis without eatign grass for a week.
Every thing that moves agains something else gets lithium grease and be heavy handed.


#9

M

Madscrills

Great information Bert, thanks!

Also in my zeal I forgot to mention a few things about the mower that I forgot to mention beforehand. Upon doing some research I remembered that back when the mower originally stopped running the engine would start to try to turn over but wouldn't even make it a full rotation. After a few more tries of this is when the engine seemed to stop trying at all. I tried turning the top by hand to see if it would still spin freely and it would not. It had seized up. Upon doing a little research I learned that usually meant that the compression was making it so that the engine couldn't turn anymore and removing the spark plugs would relieve the pressure and allow the engine to spin freely again. Hence why I ended up just replacing the spark plugs altogether.

In any case, could that be the beginnings of a larger problem down the road or was that likely just due to the battery going bad? Is there a way to prevent the engine from seizing up once the new battery eventually bites the dust?
Also, it seems to only really like to start easily if I set the throttle to full and pull the choke out. That's how I've always had to start it, is that normal or is there a way I can help it start easier and only have to choke when it's flooded? Thanks again for all of ya'lls expertise with this, it's really helping.


#10

B

bertsmobile1

What you have described is typical of too much valve lash which defeats the decompression at start up so the started can just not turn the engine past TDC on firing stroke.
Usual test is to try plugs out. If the starter spins freely then system is OK
You can also try with the plugs loose in the head, same story, if it fires right up , check the valve lash


#11

M

Madscrills

Bert you're awesome, man. I"ll give that a check and do the rest of the maintenance you've suggested and hopefully have a nice running mower. Thanks!


#12

Y

YT125

The valve clearance rarely needs to be adjusted on these opposed twins. AS I said before these have an undersized starter designed for a single cylinder and slow cranking is very common. Pull the head's and clean up the carbon built up in the cylinder and cylinder head. IF it still cranks slow then replace the starter. These engines will carbon up faster then a single cylinder and will cause slow cranking.


#13

M

Mikel1

Great information Bert, thanks!

Also in my zeal I forgot to mention a few things about the mower that I forgot to mention beforehand. Upon doing some research I remembered that back when the mower originally stopped running the engine would start to try to turn over but wouldn't even make it a full rotation. After a few more tries of this is when the engine seemed to stop trying at all. I tried turning the top by hand to see if it would still spin freely and it would not. It had seized up. Upon doing a little research I learned that usually meant that the compression was making it so that the engine couldn't turn anymore and removing the spark plugs would relieve the pressure and allow the engine to spin freely again. Hence why I ended up just replacing the spark plugs altogether.

In any case, could that be the beginnings of a larger problem down the road or was that likely just due to the battery going bad? Is there a way to prevent the engine from seizing up once the new battery eventually bites the dust?
Also, it seems to only really like to start easily if I set the throttle to full and pull the choke out. That's how I've always had to start it, is that normal or is there a way I can help it start easier and only have to choke when it's flooded? Thanks again for all of ya'lls expertise with this, it's really helping.

Most likely your battery was going bad already.
Why would you choke it when it's flooding?


#14

M

Madscrills

Update: I found a belt that works! It was far simpler than I thought. Turns out murray is walmart brand and I just went down the street and was able to find a belt that fit. Done.

Secondly, I changed the oil and tested compression. Each cylinder is getting about 80 psi. Which from what I've gleaned is a decent psi. Now, onto something completely different.

After I checked the compression I popped the spark plugs back in and re-assembled the hood in order to take it for a test drive. Lo and behold it doesn't start. You can imagine my confusion as it was working before I checked the compression. It was turning over and would eventually make a click click clicking noise as it was turning over. really very strange. So I took the liberty of pulling the plugs out again and both of them had been hit by "something" and had smashed the spacing down onto the electrode. You'll find images of one of the spark plugs at the bottom of this post. I re aligned the spacing and slipped them back in. Tried to start it again and had the same issue. Removed both plugs and this time only one of them had been smacked. So I fixed it again, put them back in and (This is probably very stupid of me at this point but I'm sitting here thinking to myself "It was just working fine a moment ago!") it started up this time... So I took her for a drive around, engaged the blades to make sure the new belt was cutting and it all ran fine but was a bit slower than I remembered. Seemed to bog down on grass that it shouldn't have an issue with. It might have a little bit to do with the old gas that is in it though, I haven't changed that out since last season. So anyway, I park her back in the garage and notice a little smoke coming from the engine. I watch it for a bit just to make sure it doesn't catch fire and eventually it subsides. So I remove the plugs to have another look and sure enough the right spark plug has been smashed back down...

A little back story on this. The other day when I drove to Autozone to get a new battery I also bought new spark plugs. I brought one of the old ones as reference and the woman was able to find me one that she said would work. These new plugs are slightly longer than the old ones but they didn't seem to be any longer in the threaded part (the piece that goes into the engine) So I didn't anticipate it being an issue. So there's that.

I spoke to my father who is a master senior mechanic and his advice after I sent him these pictures was that I either have the wrong plug or I have serious engine damage. He advised me to make sure I get the right plugs and to give it another go and see what happens.

Thoughts on all this fellas?

3lsCde6.jpg

x7xDjQK.jpg


#15

M

Madscrills

Why would you choke it when it's flooding?

I don't know man, I'm a noob just trying to learn a little bit about my mower.


#16

B

bertsmobile1

The plug you have in yor hand is a projected electrode plug
You will need to fit a standard plug.
The difference is the center electrode in a standard plug is te same height as the threaded outer section so it does not poke as deep into the combustion chamber
If you are using an NGK it will have al the same letters but no P.


#17

M

Mikel1

I don't know man, I'm a noob just trying to learn a little bit about my mower.

It's okay:smile:

Make sure you get the right plugs.


#18

I

ILENGINE

You need either a champion J19LM, and I hate champion plugs, or a NGK B2LM They have a 3/8 reach with a washer and not beveled like the plug in the picture.


#19

M

Madscrills

Coincidentally before I checked the forum just now I had already purchased the aforementioned plug and tried it out. You guys are right! That was the problem. It's starting and running great now!

So now my mower seems to be working completely now. Ready for the grass cutting season. Now I just need to hop on over to the lawn care section and find out how to get rid of these dang weeds and see how to better care for my grass. Thanks to everyone for all of your help! I had a productive day today. Not only did I get my mower working completely but I also installed my garage door opener! Good weekend. Take care guys and thanks again!


#20

T

Tinkerer200

The valves very seldom need adjusting on these engines and is not easily accomplished. Your symptoms do not indicate valve problems. Holding the key on too long trying to force the starter to turn the engine causes the starter to over heat and reduces the electromagnetic strength of the armature windings. Done enough times or for too long completely ruins the starter. Three seconds per attempt is a good max.

Walt Conner


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