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With a Briggs 33R877 0007 G1
Pulled the kill wire and it starts right up. Plug it back in, while it's running, and it dies.

So I removed the clutch safety switch and the PTO safety switch and tested them. Both test good. I pulled the clip out of the 4 pole seat switch and plugged it back in. And still can't get it to start. When I pull the kill wire, it fires right up, with no hesitation.

With a test light, I checked to see if there was juice going to through the kill wire. Not even a flicker while it's running or when I kill it.
Funny thing, when I turn the key off, after a couple of seconds, the engine dies.

I would check for continuity through the kill wire to frame, maybe some insulation wore off/chewed off somewhere. Not likely but it's happened before

I know it is thanks giving but no reason for the brain to have a holiday
You are looking for ground on the wire not voltage.
If there was any voltage then the chip would be fried as well you know
So it is hook the test light to the + on the battery then go looking for a ground connection at each plug with the switches all disconnected
A faulty key switch could have a ground connection to the kill wire all the time.
And don't overlook the engine to mower plug

I could have put PT in touch with two distributors that would have been a lot better for his business but he prefers to stick solely with Stens but that offer has expired. I couldn't publicly post this info as it is business to business only.

What PT also should get a test light from Snap-on that indicates both voltage present and grounds which help those that are electrical challenged.

Thank you both.
There's something I'm not getting. How can a key switch shut an engine off, (2 seconds after turning the key off) with the kill wire disconnected? As in what's going on with the coil itself, to stop creating juice to the plug?

Double check your engine numbers as I coming up no such engine at Briggs.

Hello is anyone home today? Stop thinking about all that turkey and fixings that you may get tomorrow or have you already been dipping into that special sauce?

It probably because there is a anti-after fire fuel solenoid on the carb but cant as bad engine info posted.

StarTech said:

Double check your engine numbers as I coming up no such engine at Briggs.

Hello is anyone home today? Stop thinking about all that turkey and fixings that you may get tomorrow or have you already been dipping into that special sauce?

It probably because there is a anti-after fire fuel solenoid on the carb but cant as bad engine info posted.

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Sorry, it's a 33R877 0007 G1.

My thanksgiving dinner will probably be something along the lines of Burger king.

I reckon that is one of the hazards of not knowing how to cook. My turkey is thawing up, the fresh sage for the stuffing is drying in the oven. I got the turkey cooking turn over after my mother when physio with the butcher knife one year. Boy did she stabbed that turkey we didn't a carving knife. Funny though as she finished taking out her fustration the pop up timer popped up.

Tonight's it is freshly picked turnip greens and cornbread.

One suggestion is for you to get a couple of the Ruixing 846639 fuel solenoids on hand. I done seen three to fail so far this year. Btw they use a 12mm open end wrench instead of the 1/2" (13mm) one. I have yet to a Nikki one to fail electrically. A few Walbro ones over the years but that is expected out of anything electrical.

StarTech said:

One suggestion is for you to get a couple of the Ruixing 846639 fuel solenoids on hand. I done seen three to fail so far this year. Btw they use a 12mm open end wrench instead of the 1/2" (13mm) one. I have yet to a Nikki one to fail electrically. A few Walbro ones over the years but that is expected out of anything electrical.

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The engine starts with the kill wire disconnected. So then tells me that the solenoid is working. Your advice explains why it dies a couple of seconds after turning the key off.
Since the engine still won't start, with the kill wire connected, even with carb spray, then unless I'm missing something (about the fuel solenoid), I think we can rule the fuel solenoid out.

BTW, I can cook. Just don't have the place or the time to do so.

Yes you can. It was just some advice for later on getting the solenoids. The solenoid was only mention as you asked why the engine still shutdown with the kill wire disconnected.

As said by others you a grounding issue somewhere in the wiring.

Not sure how good your chops are on electrical troubleshooting but i use this tool for probably 99% of troubleshooting on mowers. Tells you if you have positive voltage or ground. Does AC and DC and resistance.


For equipment without a battery i use a Fluke 85V multimeter. A test light is good for a few things but not some things. You either have the kill circuit shorted to ground somewhere or more likely a bad interlock switch somewhere. Schematic would make it easier but without one you can work back through the kill circuit. Does mower have the feature that it kills the engine if you have deck engaged when try to mow in reverse unless you push a button? That uses 2 switches in part of the kill circuit. Hook an ohmmeter to the coil kill wire and ground and disconnect switches till you loose continuity. At least get you in the ballpark.

PT is working on a 2015 MTD 13AL78XT099 (247.203744) (T1600) and MTD don't usually provide wiring schematics which in my opinion they should do so back tracing and experience is all he will have available.

Hammermechanicman said:

Not sure how good your chops are on electrical troubleshooting but i use this tool for probably 99% of troubleshooting on mowers. Tells you if you have positive voltage or ground. Does AC and DC and resistance.

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For equipment without a battery i use a Fluke 85V multimeter. A test light is good for a few things but not some things. You either have the kill circuit shorted to ground somewhere or more likely a bad interlock switch somewhere. Schematic would make it easier but without one you can work back through the kill circuit. Does mower have the feature that it kills the engine if you have deck engaged when try to mow in reverse unless you push a button? That uses 2 switches in part of the kill circuit. Hook an ohmmeter to the coil kill wire and ground and disconnect switches till you loose continuity. At least get you in the ballpark.

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WOO HOO.. More tools. Thanks man.

StarTech said:

PT is working on a 2015 MTD 13AL78XT099 (247.203744) (T1600) and MTD don't usually provide wiring schematics which in my opinion they should do so back tracing and experience is all he will have available.

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If at least for the wire color changes.

bertsmobile1 said:

I know it is thanks giving but no reason for the brain to have a holiday
You are looking for ground on the wire not voltage.
If there was any voltage then the chip would be fried as well you know
So it is hook the test light to the + on the battery then go looking for a ground connection at each plug with the switches all disconnected
A faulty key switch could have a ground connection to the kill wire all the time.
And don't overlook the engine to mower plug

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If I'm looking for a short, could I also hook up the test light to the - battery, and check the ground connections (orange, black, blue and IIRC white)?

PTmowerMech said:

WOO HOO.. More tools. Thanks man.

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Trying to justify this one.

PTmowerMech said:

If I'm looking for a short, could I also hook up the test light to the - battery, and check the ground connections (orange, black, blue and IIRC white)?

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If you are set on using a 12v test light connect it to batt+ and the kill wire at the coil. If circuit is grounded light will be on. When you unground the circuit the light will go off.

I would be careful with the coil connected as Briggs does not protected them from reverse voltage application. The amount voltage applied will depend on the tester. It don't take much of reverse current flow to destroy the coils electronics. I have seen a little +1.5 vdc across the coil to mess them up. The resistance of probe and coil's resistance setup a voltage divider network.

It is best to disconnect the kill wire at the coil during the testing using the fore metioned method.

Hammermechanicman said:

If you are set on using a 12v test light connect it to batt+ and the kill wire at the coil. If circuit is grounded light will be on. When you unground the circuit the light will go off.

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I can use either/or. Makes no difference.

I can "unground" the circuit just by turning the key on, right? If so, I just did that very thing, and the light stayed on with the switch on both on and off.

Key switch tested good M to G had continuity only when switch was off. B to S only when in start position.

StarTech said:

It is best to disconnect the kill wire at the coil during the testing using the fore metioned method.

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Assumed he knew to do that.

Solved.Just a bare spot on the kill wire, making contact with the engine.

Hammermechanicman said:

Assumed he knew to do that.

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When it comes to electrical, I'm barely a 2. So don't assume I know anything. lol

There is a reason why they call it "electrickery" .
I spent more time explaining basic circuitry to the electroplaters than the chemical metallurgy & crystalography that I was being paid to teach them .
Nearly every one I know had a toy "Dick Smith's Fun Way Into Electronics " when they were young, often before they went to school they were making circuits that made fart noises .
But the do gooders decided the kits had sharp bits that might cut Diddiums precious little fingers so they all had to be withdrawn & redesigned .
hey were hardly back on the market when the same do-gooders decided they had small bits that kids might swallow so again they got withdrawn.
At school electronics gets taught as a really dry mathematical subject that turns most students off because they can not cvisualize it.
IT is really simple when you stop making it confusing
All circuit are essentially a loop from the - to the +
Then we really confuse things with terms like Ground or Earth which have no place in DC circuitry but sneaked in from AC distribution where the actual ground we stand on is part of the circuit because one side of the generator ( alternator to be more accurate ) is connected to a big copper stake hammered into the ground

So you will find things a lot easier if you always think of things as either + or -So to find a short in the - side you need to hook a test lamp to the + side of the battery .
When I first came here I tried to do this but it seemed to get every one confused because the idea that "ground" or "earth" was just closer to the negative side of the battery was beyond them .

Just wait until you start seeing AC and DC on the same two wires at the same time. Really throws some for a loopy dee loopy. I use this setup a lot just like I run 220-240 to power 110-120 lighting then maybe need 12 dcv somewhere in the shop too. Of course there is the Neutral that is available .

Don't be naughty Star we are trying to get his head around MOWER electrics .
A friend & I run a motorcycle rewiring sideline called IR ( Idiot Resistant) wiring .
I find it increadable that quite intellignent people can not understand simple motorcycle ( British ) wiring.
Even easier because just about all manufacturers adopted the standard Lucas wiring codes .
While not being a big fan of mixing signals I do run ethernet over the mains in the workshop & office which normally works well with everything apart from the big laser printer.

There was a small mob in Artarmon Sydney run by sacked CSIRO engineers called Ripple Technology .
They were commercializing the use of ripple control for gensets used on mine camps
They also had a monitoring system that could identify the ripple caused by your neighbour opening their fridge door so you could tell if they were up & OK and not bed bound or laying on the floor .
I came across them when one of my customers installed a ripple monitor to keep track on the avid editing suites to ensure no one was making illegal copies of the movies they were editing.
Freaky stuff.
I can appreciate the theory of identifiable ripples but the technology of identifing my bed lamp from my reading lamp really leaves me for dead.

Electrons confuse me.

And in Physics + is minus and - is supply of electrons or +. I studied Physics until I started to understand it then realized just how dumb I really am.

The main thing you got to remember is to not let the magic smoke out or things simply won't work again if you do.

StarTech said:

The main thing you got to remember is to not let the magic smoke out or things simply won't work again if you do.

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That's for sure.
I always have a hard time figuring out if the circuit is using right handed or left handed electrons

I am having a much harder time figuring if the customer is a he, she, or hesheit. Don't know if to address the customer Sir, Madam, or not at all.

Ya just ain't woke enough.

Years ago me and another guy were working on a machine at one of the bigger accounts in town and the other guy asked the shift supervisor when she was due to deliver. Her reply was "I'm not pregnant just fat" and stared at him. Awkward................ i went for a cup of coffee and left him to try and dig himself out of the hole.

LOL

StarTech said:

I am having a much harder time figuring if the customer is a he, she, or hesheit. Don't know if to address the customer Sir, Madam, or not at all.

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There's a woman, who looks and dresses like a man at the local walmart. She's pretty cool actually. The first time I had to deal with her (returning something) I told her the problem. She asked if I had a receipt. I looked her square in the eyes and said "Yes sir, I do."
She smiled as if i'd made her day. The whole transaction went as smooth as silk. And all it took was a little extra kindness.

Hammermechanicman said:

That's for sure.
I always have a hard time figuring out if the circuit is using right handed or left handed electrons

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Not as funny as you might think as electrons do in fact spin in both directions and further more a lot of the bulk properties of the material is in fact connected to the spin ( or lack there of ) of the electrons in the outer most orbitals or in inner orbit planes that cross over others and end up on the outside of the atom .
Extremely important in ultra pure metals .

PTmowerMech said:

There's a woman, who looks and dresses like a man at the local walmart. She's pretty cool actually. The first time I had to deal with her (returning something) I told her the problem. She asked if I had a receipt. I looked her square in the eyes and said "Yes sir, I do."
She smiled as if i'd made her day. The whole transaction went as smooth as silk. And all it took was a little extra kindness.

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Call every one" mate or pal "

bertsmobile1 said:

Call every one" mate or pal "

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Not in Texas you don't. LOLOLOLOL

PTmowerMech said:

Not in Texas you don't. LOLOLOLOL

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Oh......, LOL!

PTmowerMech said:

Not in Texas you don't. LOLOLOLOL

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What is in the middle of Texas? It's not an "X"

Brady TX is closest to the geographic center

My okie roommate in the service said it was something you scrape off the bottom of you boot. ?

Oh, Aggies....

Hammermechanicman said:

What is in the middle of Texas? It's not an "X"

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All my X's live in Texas.

Hammermechanicman said:

My okie roommate in the service said it was something you scrape off the bottom of you boot. ?

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The reason Texas doesn't float off into the gulf is because oklahoma sucks. LoL

PTmowerMech said:

The reason Texas doesn't float off into the gulf is because oklahoma sucks. LoL

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LOL that's great!??