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23hp Briggs v-twin 625 hours... Rebuild?
#1
R
rubantin
R
rubantin
Just bought a 2006 z425 John Deere 48 inch zero turn mower for $1,500. They have 625 hours on the engine. It's not burning oil or smoking, but I'm thinking that 625 hours is probably getting to the end? So should I wait until it breaks or should I rebuild it? How much would it cost to have someone rebuild it? I was born in a mechanic machinist shop and I rebuilt a couple small engines.. but that was 30 years ago... And I don't have some of the tools... Lol
#2
I
ILENGINE
I
ILENGINE
Is this a Intek V twin or the Vanguard V twin. In the former than you should be good for a few more hours. Some of those will go 800+ hours with proper maintenance. If the Vanguard that engine should go a couple thousand.
Either way you will not find a reparable mower shop that will rebuild either one of those engine due to not being cost effective, and in some cases really isn't much cheaper than replacement of the engine. I don't overhaul engines that can be replaced for less than $2500 because a proper overhaul that requires machine shop work and cylinder boring will cost $1200-1500 after parts and labor
Either way you will not find a reparable mower shop that will rebuild either one of those engine due to not being cost effective, and in some cases really isn't much cheaper than replacement of the engine. I don't overhaul engines that can be replaced for less than $2500 because a proper overhaul that requires machine shop work and cylinder boring will cost $1200-1500 after parts and labor
#3
StarTech
StarTech
IL, Is quite right about the costs and skills needed. Most shops don't even have the necessary equipment or the skills to do the overhaul nowadays. If you do find a mechanic that has the tools the costs alone make it more viable to just replace the engine especially if a promo engine is available.
Note: it doesn't machine shop too resize the cylinders per say if the mechanic has the proper ridge hone and reamers on hand; although, most even they will not turn a crankshaft journal opting instead of just replacing the crankshaft.
The only rebuilds that I do now is for myself as once labor is added it gets costly.
Note: it doesn't machine shop too resize the cylinders per say if the mechanic has the proper ridge hone and reamers on hand; although, most even they will not turn a crankshaft journal opting instead of just replacing the crankshaft.
The only rebuilds that I do now is for myself as once labor is added it gets costly.
#4
S
slomo
slomo
S
slomo
Are you using a NASCAR team for rebuilds? Or is it 2021 now and prices have gone up? Crazy,,,, It's a stinking mower engine LOL. Toss in some Restore and some Slick 50 and you are good to go. Little Motor Honey to slick her up LOL.Is this a Intek V twin or the Vanguard V twin. In the former than you should be good for a few more hours. Some of those will go 800+ hours with proper maintenance. If the Vanguard that engine should go a couple thousand.
Either way you will not find a reparable mower shop that will rebuild either one of those engine due to not being cost effective, and in some cases really isn't much cheaper than replacement of the engine. I don't overhaul engines that can be replaced for less than $2500 because a proper overhaul that requires machine shop work and cylinder boring will cost $1200-1500 after parts and labor
slomo
#5
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
I would follow IL’s advice. The only time I consider to do a rebuild is when I can not get a replacement engine to repower a good piece of equipment.
#6
StarTech
StarTech
Slomo, Apparently you are one those hacks that I had to clean up afterwords. What you are suggest just masks to true problem.Just like those that believes duct tape and JB Weld fixes everything.
But even small engine requires proper rebuilds by a professional. An engine nursed to it ultimate death is NOT a proper way to do repairs especially when a simple rigid honing is require so the taper and oval is removed. Bot of there are so called mechanic that just use flex hone to just break the glaze and never brother to actually check the cylinder specs. Most people goes to them because they are so cheap but of the customer get what he pays for too. Crappy work equals crappy repairs.
Yes spending $400+ in parts alone on the $800 is not worth it unless you are doing the repairs for yourself.
Let you need to oversize the piston and rigs in a 445577-6187-G5. They list for $105+ for one and you need two of them. And you are already half to the $400 and you still need all the gaskets and any other worn parts.
But even small engine requires proper rebuilds by a professional. An engine nursed to it ultimate death is NOT a proper way to do repairs especially when a simple rigid honing is require so the taper and oval is removed. Bot of there are so called mechanic that just use flex hone to just break the glaze and never brother to actually check the cylinder specs. Most people goes to them because they are so cheap but of the customer get what he pays for too. Crappy work equals crappy repairs.
Yes spending $400+ in parts alone on the $800 is not worth it unless you are doing the repairs for yourself.
Let you need to oversize the piston and rigs in a 445577-6187-G5. They list for $105+ for one and you need two of them. And you are already half to the $400 and you still need all the gaskets and any other worn parts.
#7
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Don’t know where you guys go for cutting and boring. The last one I sent out last October to be resized cost me $300. That was for two rebores .010” over, two heads resurfaced, and 2 crank journals cut .010 undersized. Been going to the same shop since the 80’s and only time I had a problem was when the kid in the shop didn’t wash it up properly. Only lasted 10 hours. Yes, being a mean old fart, with good rep, has its advantages.
#8
StarTech
15000 Small Cylinder Hone Full 2" to 7" Range (50.8 - 177.8mm).
16000 Small Cylinder Hone. For 1 3/4" to 2" Range (44.5 mm to 69.9 mm)
Of course you must the correct stones and racks too.
StarTech
Personally I do the work in house when comes to oversizing the piston bores using one of the below hones and a 1/2" low speed drill (under 300 rpm).Don’t know where you guys go for cutting and boring. The last one I sent out last October to be resized cost me $300. That was for two rebores .010” over, two heads resurfaced, and 2 crank journals cut .010 undersized. Been going to the same shop since the 80’s and only time I had a problem was when the kid in the shop didn’t wash it up properly. Only lasted 10 hours. Yes, being a mean old fart, with good rep, has its advantages.
15000 Small Cylinder Hone Full 2" to 7" Range (50.8 - 177.8mm).
16000 Small Cylinder Hone. For 1 3/4" to 2" Range (44.5 mm to 69.9 mm)
Of course you must the correct stones and racks too.
#9
I
ILENGINE
The last 6 overhauls had over .010 wear before boring which had to be bored .020 over.
I
ILENGINE
My local machine shop that bores cylinders charges $100/cylinder. So you are not out of line as far as pricing. The days of $25 cylinder boring are over.Don’t know where you guys go for cutting and boring. The last one I sent out last October to be resized cost me $300. That was for two rebores .010” over, two heads resurfaced, and 2 crank journals cut .010 undersized. Been going to the same shop since the 80’s and only time I had a problem was when the kid in the shop didn’t wash it up properly. Only lasted 10 hours. Yes, being a mean old fart, with good rep, has its advantages.
The last 6 overhauls had over .010 wear before boring which had to be bored .020 over.
#10
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
I still have rigid hones when I’m deglazing a cylinder but found it cheaper to send rebores out. I get about one total rebuild about once a year. Dealers around here call me, because they don’t want to tie up their young guys, who have very little experience with rebuilding. Win, win for everyone, but most of the time I must inform them, cost is not worth it. Biggest problem I have is finding good replacement parts, especially for the old Wisconsin and Onan engines.
#11
S
slomo
slomo
S
slomo
I'm a hack for sure. Clearly not a professional like most of you guys on here. Bubble gum and bailing wire is all I use. I'm the worst mower person on Earth.Slomo, Apparently you are one those hacks that I had to clean up afterwords. What you are suggest just masks to true problem.Just like those that believes duct tape and JB Weld fixes everything.
slomo
#12
StarTech
StarTech
And Most Briggs engine only have .020 over available other than standard.My local machine shop that bores cylinders charges $100/cylinder. So you are not out of line as far as pricing. The days of $25 cylinder boring are over.
The last 6 overhauls had over .010 wear before boring which had to be bored .020 over.
No joking about 5 yrs ago I got in a walk behind that the blade was duct taped on. And I got one customer using car tags for deflector.I'm a hack for sure. Clearly not a professional like most of you guys on here. Bubble gum and bailing wire is all I use. I'm the worst mower person on Earth.
slomo
#13
S
slomo
slomo
S
slomo
You need to watch Pakistani Truckers on youtube. Want to talk about being creative. Rebuilding big rig batteries, in FLIP FLOPS. No eye protection or skin protection. Dudes are off the hook. Rebuilding big rig truck frames.And Most Briggs engine only have .020 over available other than standard.
No joking about 5 yrs ago I got in a walk behind that the blade was duct taped on. And I got one customer using car tags for deflector.
slomo
#14
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Only thing I don't do in house is 2 stroke rebores & crank grinding .
But back to the OP
A set of new rings can extend the life of the engine for quite a while but you do need the ridge reamer .
A job that most familiar with tools can comfortably do for around $ 200 Aus .
Like the others here I have 6 cubic meters of motors that need a full rebuild that I keep telling myself I will do come day.
But I make twice the profit in 1/4 the time by fitting a new engine and then warranty is not on my head.
I could say that engines are way too cheap now days but every one would howl me down.
But the reason why the planet is in such a bad shape is because we have allowed big business to rape & pillage third world countries so everything we use is cheaper to replace than repair.
Then people with Phd's in manipulating your mind create advertising campaigns that convince us we have to buy new despite most can actually tell it is rubbish compared to what it is replacing.
But back to the OP
A set of new rings can extend the life of the engine for quite a while but you do need the ridge reamer .
A job that most familiar with tools can comfortably do for around $ 200 Aus .
Like the others here I have 6 cubic meters of motors that need a full rebuild that I keep telling myself I will do come day.
But I make twice the profit in 1/4 the time by fitting a new engine and then warranty is not on my head.
I could say that engines are way too cheap now days but every one would howl me down.
But the reason why the planet is in such a bad shape is because we have allowed big business to rape & pillage third world countries so everything we use is cheaper to replace than repair.
Then people with Phd's in manipulating your mind create advertising campaigns that convince us we have to buy new despite most can actually tell it is rubbish compared to what it is replacing.
#15
StarTech
Well I consider those in the Middle East area to be 51 cards short of a full deck anyway so nothing surprises me about them.
StarTech
You need to watch Pakistani Truckers on youtube. Want to talk about being creative. Rebuilding big rig batteries, in FLIP FLOPS. No eye protection or skin protection. Dudes are off the hook. Rebuilding big rig truck frames.
slomo
Well I consider those in the Middle East area to be 51 cards short of a full deck anyway so nothing surprises me about them.
#16
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
When you live some where that is essentially lawless OH & S is not a priority.
Not being hyjacked , robbed , blown up or dragged out and hacked to pieces because you are the wrong religion is probably a lot higher on their priority list .
We view a lot of these things through our own prism where every life is sacred and to be saved.
Over there no one outside the immediate family gives a stuff who lives or dies.
You only need to cross your own southern border to appreciate that, let alone going south of the Panama Canal
Not being hyjacked , robbed , blown up or dragged out and hacked to pieces because you are the wrong religion is probably a lot higher on their priority list .
We view a lot of these things through our own prism where every life is sacred and to be saved.
Over there no one outside the immediate family gives a stuff who lives or dies.
You only need to cross your own southern border to appreciate that, let alone going south of the Panama Canal
#17
C
countrjd
C
countrjd
A new engine through Amazon costs about 16 to 1800 dollars. I had a smaller engine that essentially blew up, oil smoke everywhere. I talked to my small engine mechanic and he said to replace it. Bought one from Amazon and the next time I talked with him he said I paid less than his cost from Briggs & Stratton. If it were me I'd run it until it gave out and buy a new one. No messing around waiting for parts and costs almost as much as a new one.Just bought a 2006 z425 John Deere 48 inch zero turn mower for $1,500. They have 625 hours on the engine. It's not burning oil or smoking, but I'm thinking that 625 hours is probably getting to the end? So should I wait until it breaks or should I rebuild it? How much would it cost to have someone rebuild it? I was born in a mechanic machinist shop and I rebuilt a couple small engines.. but that was 30 years ago... And I don't have some of the tools... Lol
#18
R
Ronni
R
Ronni
Just bought a 2006 z425 John Deere 48 inch zero turn mower for $1,500. They have 625 hours on the engine. It's not burning oil or smoking, but I'm thinking that 625 hours is probably getting to the end? So should I wait until it breaks or should I rebuild it? How much would it cost to have someone rebuild it? I was born in a mechanic machinist shop and I rebuilt a couple small engines.. but that was 30 years ago... And I don't have some of the tools... Lol
#19
R
Ronni
R
Ronni
My 2007 riding mower developed a crankcase crack at aboutn1000 hours. Up till then, it ran very well. The crack did her in as far as repairing it. The rest of the mower was in great shape so I looked around online for a short block replacement and found several for around 800 to 1000 dollars. Then I found one on Amazon for $550 and bought it. Replacing the block was a breeze; just taking everything off the old block and putting it all on the new block. Cranked her up after filling with oil and filter and she came to life and works great.A new engine through Amazon costs about 16 to 1800 dollars. I had a smaller engine that essentially blew up, oil smoke everywhere. I talked to my small engine mechanic and he said to replace it. Bought one from Amazon and the next time I talked with him he said I paid less than his cost from Briggs & Stratton. If it were me I'd run it until it gave out and buy a new one. No messing around waiting for parts and costs almost as much as a new one.
#20
I
ILENGINE
I
ILENGINE
And then the manufacturers complain that dealers are not selling enough equipment/engines, etc. Has been for years that you could purchase a new push mower from a box store cheaper than the dealer could buy the engine. Generac has been known to sell on Amazon with free shipping below dealer cost on the same portable generator. Got a flyer for Poulan Pro products a few years back from my distributor, and the dealer pricing/profit was reasonable. The problem was Rural King was selling the same product for $200 under dealer cost.A new engine through Amazon costs about 16 to 1800 dollars. I had a smaller engine that essentially blew up, oil smoke everywhere. I talked to my small engine mechanic and he said to replace it. Bought one from Amazon and the next time I talked with him he said I paid less than his cost from Briggs & Stratton. If it were me I'd run it until it gave out and buy a new one. No messing around waiting for parts and costs almost as much as a new one.
#21
S
SamB
S
SamB
I suppose I'm a bit of a hack,too. Unless one is using the equipment professionally where downtime is money lost,run it till it drops dead,then replace it with an 'all parts totally new' engine. All this saying keeping up good maintenance,oil changes,air filters,etc. There is that school of thought that it is much faster to replace with new,rather than wait for going the rebuild route,especeilly if there are clients to contend with. Have a replacement on the shelf, and have time to get the original one tended to This,of course ,does not apply to rare one of a kind or special engines.I'm a hack for sure. Clearly not a professional like most of you guys on here. Bubble gum and bailing wire is all I use. I'm the worst mower person on Earth.
slomo
#23
A
Armana
A
Armana
Personally I’d follow the old adage, “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it”. Would you rebuild a car engine that is running fine? Just keep up on the maintenance like someone else already said.
#24
S
SamB
S
SamB
Imagine if you will,an engine for your rider that had removeable wet (oil or ooolant contact) cylinder liners,replaceable tri-metal rod bearings(Cevite 77?) ,forged piston(s)and a full cast iron block and heads. Might be expensive to start with,but you'd only buy it once.Only thing I don't do in house is 2 stroke rebores & crank grinding .
But back to the OP
A set of new rings can extend the life of the engine for quite a while but you do need the ridge reamer .
A job that most familiar with tools can comfortably do for around $ 200 Aus .
Like the others here I have 6 cubic meters of motors that need a full rebuild that I keep telling myself I will do come day.
But I make twice the profit in 1/4 the time by fitting a new engine and then warranty is not on my head.
I could say that engines are way too cheap now days but every one would howl me down.
But the reason why the planet is in such a bad shape is because we have allowed big business to rape & pillage third world countries so everything we use is cheaper to replace than repair.
Then people with Phd's in manipulating your mind create advertising campaigns that convince us we have to buy new despite most can actually tell it is rubbish compared to what it is replacing.
#25
S
slomo
S
slomo
And would weight like 4000lbs too. These new 0-turns already weigh like 1500+ pounds without the 350lb diabetes driver on board. They rut the snot out of your turf. Guys with hard clay soil should take notice if you want a nice "looking" yard. And cutting it like 17 times to get rid of the clippings on every mow doesn't help nor save time either.Imagine if you will,an engine for your rider that had removeable wet (oil or ooolant contact) cylinder liners,replaceable tri-metal rod bearings(Cevite 77?) ,forged piston(s)and a full cast iron block and heads. Might be expensive to start with,but you'd only buy it once.
#26
R
rutbuster1
R
rutbuster1
If it's running right just keep up the maintenance and run it. No need to rebuild an engine if it's got good compression and runs good.................js
#27
J
Joed756
J
Joed756
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.Just bought a 2006 z425 John Deere 48 inch zero turn mower for $1,500. They have 625 hours on the engine. It's not burning oil or smoking, but I'm thinking that 625 hours is probably getting to the end? So should I wait until it breaks or should I rebuild it? How much would it cost to have someone rebuild it? I was born in a mechanic machinist shop and I rebuilt a couple small engines.. but that was 30 years ago... And I don't have some of the tools... Lol
#28
S
SamB
As for the engine I "imagined", I might as well put a Fairbanks-Morse hit and miss on the mower!!
But....Am I getting too far off topic here? If so,I'll throw in that a 20hp v twin B&S is about 750.00 at a lot of online sellers.
S
SamB
I'd bet it would weigh more than that! LOL! The weight difference between my 18hp opposed and my 19 hp Intek is amazing. It's hard enough to not tear up the big yard with the 19hp Intek light weight on the ZTR. The opposed is on the Snapper and the Snapper is a bit kinder on turf,so I use it in the little front yardAnd would weight like 4000lbs too. These new 0-turns already weigh like 1500+ pounds without the 350lb diabetes driver on board. They rut the snot out of your turf. Guys with hard clay soil should take notice if you want a nice "looking" yard. And cutting it like 17 times to get rid of the clippings on every mow doesn't help nor save time either.
As for the engine I "imagined", I might as well put a Fairbanks-Morse hit and miss on the mower!!
But....Am I getting too far off topic here? If so,I'll throw in that a 20hp v twin B&S is about 750.00 at a lot of online sellers.
#29
B
bertsmobile1
A production line with 20 workers pumps out better than 1000 engines a day
That is 50 engines per worker in 8 hours
Which is 6.5 engines an hour
To pull down diagnose the problem order parts & rebuild the engine is 10 hours work in which time the production line worker has made 65 engines.
The profit margin on complete engines is higher than for individual replacement parts .
So from a pure most profit / least cost basis it is always cheaper to replace major parts like engines or hydros than it is to repair them .
From the owners point of view the cost is almost the same, what they save on repair time labour they loose on the extra price of a whole engine over just the broken parts .
The biggie for the owner is less down time & the entire new engine has a new warranty .
If you are the mechanic & doing it in your free time then the least cost will be to repair because your labour time is effectivly free .
From an environmental point of view repairing the old is always the better path to travel but when the environment is up against big business profits, the environment always looses which is why the planet is on it's last legs right now .
Big business make the most profit by selling you a complete new engine.
B
bertsmobile1
Not a school of thought, an economic reality.I suppose I'm a bit of a hack,too. Unless one is using the equipment professionally where downtime is money lost,run it till it drops dead,then replace it with an 'all parts totally new' engine. All this saying keeping up good maintenance,oil changes,air filters,etc. There is that school of thought that it is much faster to replace with new,rather than wait for going the rebuild route,especeilly if there are clients to contend with. Have a replacement on the shelf, and have time to get the original one tended to This,of course ,does not apply to rare one of a kind or special engines.
A production line with 20 workers pumps out better than 1000 engines a day
That is 50 engines per worker in 8 hours
Which is 6.5 engines an hour
To pull down diagnose the problem order parts & rebuild the engine is 10 hours work in which time the production line worker has made 65 engines.
The profit margin on complete engines is higher than for individual replacement parts .
So from a pure most profit / least cost basis it is always cheaper to replace major parts like engines or hydros than it is to repair them .
From the owners point of view the cost is almost the same, what they save on repair time labour they loose on the extra price of a whole engine over just the broken parts .
The biggie for the owner is less down time & the entire new engine has a new warranty .
If you are the mechanic & doing it in your free time then the least cost will be to repair because your labour time is effectivly free .
From an environmental point of view repairing the old is always the better path to travel but when the environment is up against big business profits, the environment always looses which is why the planet is on it's last legs right now .
Big business make the most profit by selling you a complete new engine.
#30
B
bertsmobile1
Big business and in particular the money managers ( pension funds/ hedge funds / investment funds etc ) would never allow such an engine to be made.
And in any case it is not warranted for small engines as it is very resource wasteful.
We used to make engines that run forever , remember names like Generac, Wisconsin, Villiers & BSA or even Honda for that matter ?
However the public has been brainwashed by the money men into believing that every thing we want can be made for a lower price just as good so quality engine makers went broke because YOU would not pay $ 200 for an engine which would run for 50 years over an engine that is only good for 10 years .
The money moungers make no money if you repair your old whatever but they make a lot if you buy a new one and it costs a lot to maintain their fleet of Gulf Streams & private luxury ships .
B
bertsmobile1
Imagine if you will,an engine for your rider that had removeable wet (oil or ooolant contact) cylinder liners,replaceable tri-metal rod bearings(Cevite 77?) ,forged piston(s)and a full cast iron block and heads. Might be expensive to start with,but you'd only buy it once.
Big business and in particular the money managers ( pension funds/ hedge funds / investment funds etc ) would never allow such an engine to be made.
And in any case it is not warranted for small engines as it is very resource wasteful.
We used to make engines that run forever , remember names like Generac, Wisconsin, Villiers & BSA or even Honda for that matter ?
However the public has been brainwashed by the money men into believing that every thing we want can be made for a lower price just as good so quality engine makers went broke because YOU would not pay $ 200 for an engine which would run for 50 years over an engine that is only good for 10 years .
The money moungers make no money if you repair your old whatever but they make a lot if you buy a new one and it costs a lot to maintain their fleet of Gulf Streams & private luxury ships .
#31
S
SamB
S
SamB
My grandfather had a stationary gasoline engine that he used around the farm in the 1930's,'40's and up into the 1950's. He got it from his father who had purchased it who knows when,but it was a very long time ago,early 1900's or maybe even earlier. My 'little brother,(65+yo) lives on the farm now and has it. It still runs fine! I don't remember the make,but it weighed a bunch,though.Big business and in particular the money managers ( pension funds/ hedge funds / investment funds etc ) would never allow such an engine to be made.
And in any case it is not warranted for small engines as it is very resource wasteful.
We used to make engines that run forever , remember names like Generac, Wisconsin, Villiers & BSA or even Honda for that matter ?
However the public has been brainwashed by the money men into believing that every thing we want can be made for a lower price just as good so quality engine makers went broke because YOU would not pay $ 200 for an engine which would run for 50 years over an engine that is only good for 10 years .
The money moungers make no money if you repair your old whatever but they make a lot if you buy a new one and it costs a lot to maintain their fleet of Gulf Streams & private luxury ships .
#32
S
SamB
S
SamB
IDK about less cost to repair. You can't buy just the rods for most of the Briggs engines,you have to buy a 'crank set',including the rods and a fitted crankshaft. Couple that cost with any other parts,valves,gaskets,etc,and you're way past the cost of a replacement engine. It isn't easy staying in business for the small business owner these days.Not a school of thought, an economic reality.
A production line with 20 workers pumps out better than 1000 engines a day
That is 50 engines per worker in 8 hours
Which is 6.5 engines an hour
To pull down diagnose the problem order parts & rebuild the engine is 10 hours work in which time the production line worker has made 65 engines.
The profit margin on complete engines is higher than for individual replacement parts .
So from a pure most profit / least cost basis it is always cheaper to replace major parts like engines or hydros than it is to repair them .
From the owners point of view the cost is almost the same, what they save on repair time labour they loose on the extra price of a whole engine over just the broken parts .
The biggie for the owner is less down time & the entire new engine has a new warranty .
If you are the mechanic & doing it in your free time then the least cost will be to repair because your labour time is effectively free .
From an environmental point of view repairing the old is always the better path to travel but when the environment is up against big business profits, the environment always looses which is why the planet is on it's last legs right now .
Big business make the most profit by selling you a complete new engine.
#33
S
SlopeMan2
S
SlopeMan2
Been reading all the suggestions you have Ru. I have over 1,200 hours on my 2008 26 hp B&S, and still runs unbelievably well. I better not brag, but it has been mowing some very tough, tall grass lately, as it powers my 60" Bad Boy. I have always used Mobil 1 synthetic, never let it get dirty, and clean air filter often. I use the foam wrap over the paper filter, with a slight film of oil on it, hoping to keep clean air coming in. I remember running a model gas motor model car in the dust, w/o a filter, and distroyed the engine in one hour. I am kinda thinking like others " if it ain't broke, don't fix it". -- that is, if it doesn't smoke, and has plenty of compression to start and pull well. A lot of people just don't treat engines with TLC.
#34
B
bertsmobile1
I came into mower repair from transport & logistics.
It costs almost the same to store pick invoice & despatch a washer as it does to do the same for a complete crank
The only difference is the actual freight cost.
This is why lots of small items are only available in 10,20, 25, 50 or 100 packs.
The more individual items in storeage the greater the fixed costs of the warehouse
Thus the most economical thing is to warehouse either assemblies or packs of bits that are normally bought together.
When I started playing with motorcycles, you could buy each piston ring individually , same for the pin & pin clips
Now rings only come as a set and clips with a pin or in packs of 20.,
For a lot of items the warehousing cost exceeds the actual valve of the goods in a couple of years.
Lucas used to add the warehousing costs on a pro rata basis to everything that was unsold for 12 months
So when they closed down the warehouse and tried to sell off the old stock, a silicon rectifier which was 50p back in 1956 was now $ 275.
They had a complete box of 144 and a part box, forget how many were there.
Back then 1975 thought they were really ripping me off at those prices but having run warehouses I now realize the price quoted was the actual accrued costs .
B & S parts were always disproportionally cheap and a big part of this was volume throughput .
However in recent years the volumes are dropping like a stone as more & more manufacturers switch to other brands .
And going bankrupt twice in the last decade & shafting their parts suppliers so not they pay up front or extra or both for their parts that has to be reflected in the price.
Unless there is a radical shake up B & S will not be around for long
Vanguards will probably be upgraded to take the spot now occupied by Kawakasi as the premium engine & standardB & S engine will all come out of Asia with a very limited parts supply just like the house branded Loncins & Ducars
B
bertsmobile1
Sam,IDK about less cost to repair. You can't buy just the rods for most of the Briggs engines,you have to buy a 'crank set',including the rods and a fitted crankshaft. Couple that cost with any other parts,valves,gaskets,etc,and you're way past the cost of a replacement engine. It isn't easy staying in business for the small business owner these days.
I came into mower repair from transport & logistics.
It costs almost the same to store pick invoice & despatch a washer as it does to do the same for a complete crank
The only difference is the actual freight cost.
This is why lots of small items are only available in 10,20, 25, 50 or 100 packs.
The more individual items in storeage the greater the fixed costs of the warehouse
Thus the most economical thing is to warehouse either assemblies or packs of bits that are normally bought together.
When I started playing with motorcycles, you could buy each piston ring individually , same for the pin & pin clips
Now rings only come as a set and clips with a pin or in packs of 20.,
For a lot of items the warehousing cost exceeds the actual valve of the goods in a couple of years.
Lucas used to add the warehousing costs on a pro rata basis to everything that was unsold for 12 months
So when they closed down the warehouse and tried to sell off the old stock, a silicon rectifier which was 50p back in 1956 was now $ 275.
They had a complete box of 144 and a part box, forget how many were there.
Back then 1975 thought they were really ripping me off at those prices but having run warehouses I now realize the price quoted was the actual accrued costs .
B & S parts were always disproportionally cheap and a big part of this was volume throughput .
However in recent years the volumes are dropping like a stone as more & more manufacturers switch to other brands .
And going bankrupt twice in the last decade & shafting their parts suppliers so not they pay up front or extra or both for their parts that has to be reflected in the price.
Unless there is a radical shake up B & S will not be around for long
Vanguards will probably be upgraded to take the spot now occupied by Kawakasi as the premium engine & standardB & S engine will all come out of Asia with a very limited parts supply just like the house branded Loncins & Ducars
#35
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rubantin
R
rubantin
Thanks guys... Been working 60+ hrs the last 2 weeks... had no time to respond. I have decided to just take care of it and when it dies, will replace the motor..
#36
B
bartles
B
bartles
I think it is very likely people rebuild these engines prematurely. Unless the exhaust smoke gets so excessive it becomes a health and enviornmental issue run the engine until poor clyinder pressure affects its performance. Installing oil is a pretty cheap thing compared to boring liners and changing out parts. So it smokes a little, so it burns a little oil...run it.
Now that I mention oil....be sure you are using the correct viscosity for the ambiant temperature you operate in....too hot or too cold affects oil consumption drastically.
2cents worth.
Now that I mention oil....be sure you are using the correct viscosity for the ambiant temperature you operate in....too hot or too cold affects oil consumption drastically.
2cents worth.
#37
S
SlopeMan2
S
SlopeMan2
I forgot to mention the Snapper Comet with a 7hp B&S that my dad bought in 1965. I actually mowed a steep ditch with it today. It has the independent rear wheel braking, which works great on slopes. It is pretty well retired now, but getting some heavy rigs stuck in 5' deep ditch along side old route 66, I find it much easier to use the narrow, 30" wide Snapper. All 3 of my kids have helped him mow with it. Someone told him to only use non-detergent oil in it, since it did not have a filter. It has never had anything but 30w Valvoline non-detergent in it - and was always kept clean. No telling how many hours it has on it, but I would think at least 1500. It does not smoke, and has good compression. He had a farm, and would haul it out and cut stuff that was unbelievably tall. If you have ever used an old reel type push mower in tall grass, you can see how impressive it was to me to see what it could do. So, you can see why I am impressed with the older B&S engines. If other brands are as good, I will be satisfied. All I have ever done to this motor was to keep the valve clearance right, clean the carb, and I did put a CDI module coil on it. So, you can see why, with good care, I expect these engines to go over 625 hours. This reminds me, that I need to blow the grass out of the cooling fins on my 26 hp Briggs tomorrow. Good luck with keeping yours running Ru.
#38
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slomo
S
slomo
Every year on every small engine.This reminds me, that I need to blow the grass out of the cooling fins on my 26 hp Briggs tomorrow.
#39
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SlopeMan2
S
SlopeMan2
I have kinda neglected that. It smelled a little hot the other day. I was working it real hard, but I'll bet that is why. I am taking the shroud off and blowing it out before I use it this afternoon. Thanks slomo.Every year on every small engine.
#40
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Ronni
R
Ronni
I had well over 1000 hours before my lawn tractor engine developed serious problems. And, even then, those problems were not normal ones but ones that were caused by poor engine design and never would have happened to a well-designed engine. I am talking about the Kohler Courage 20hp engine, otherwise known as the "bucket engine". The problem is the "bucket" design of the crankcase that is its weakness. With age, it develops a crack in the crankcase sidewall that isn't repairable.If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
#41
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bertsmobile1
The crack is very repairable I have done about a dozen of them in a variety of ways from epoxies through to welding.
It is an easy fix
Only affects some mowers , got lots now with better than 2000 hours running strong
Yes it was a design fault but it was also covered under warranty for around 10 years
B
bertsmobile1
They only crack if the bolts come looseI had well over 1000 hours before my lawn tractor engine developed serious problems. And, even then, those problems were not normal ones but ones that were caused by poor engine design and never would have happened to a well-designed engine. I am talking about the Kohler Courage 20hp engine, otherwise known as the "bucket engine". The problem is the "bucket" design of the crankcase that is its weakness. With age, it develops a crack in the crankcase sidewall that isn't repairable.
The crack is very repairable I have done about a dozen of them in a variety of ways from epoxies through to welding.
It is an easy fix
Only affects some mowers , got lots now with better than 2000 hours running strong
Yes it was a design fault but it was also covered under warranty for around 10 years
#42
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bigcrunch
B
bigcrunch
Anyone have a setup to show how to properly bore a twin or even single cylinder slanted engine?
#43
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bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
You make a mounting plate to replace the sump ten index the bore to quill
After that it is a few jacks & clamps
If you are going to do a few then start with a right angle plate clamped to the bed
Index to the bore clamp the crank to the mounting plate .
Draw an outline around the crankcase sump face
Use a sump gasket to locate the sump bolt holes but drill them oversize to allow for final adjustment
When mounted pop a couple of jacks under a convienant spot to prevent it dropping down when being machined
That is how my machinist did mine, he had never done one before
After that it is a few jacks & clamps
If you are going to do a few then start with a right angle plate clamped to the bed
Index to the bore clamp the crank to the mounting plate .
Draw an outline around the crankcase sump face
Use a sump gasket to locate the sump bolt holes but drill them oversize to allow for final adjustment
When mounted pop a couple of jacks under a convienant spot to prevent it dropping down when being machined
That is how my machinist did mine, he had never done one before
#44
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Tinkerer200
Walt Conner
T
Tinkerer200
I have and did use the same equipment above. At my age, I no longer do work. IF it ain't broke, don't fix it.Personally I do the work in house when comes to oversizing the piston bores using one of the below hones and a 1/2" low speed drill (under 300 rpm).
View attachment 57712
15000 Small Cylinder Hone Full 2" to 7" Range (50.8 - 177.8mm).
16000 Small Cylinder Hone. For 1 3/4" to 2" Range (44.5 mm to 69.9 mm)
Of course you must the correct stones and racks too.
Walt Conner
#46
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bartles
B
bartles
Hey Walt....don't know if you remember me, bought a bunch of Dixon parts from you years ago. You'd be happy to know I restore both of the 3304's I acquired using a lot of the inventory you shipped to me. I sold one and restored the other one as a keeper. I use it to tow around a spray rig. I love those ole mechanical marvels!! bartles, LouisianaI have and did use the same equipment above. At my age, I no longer do work. IF it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Walt Conner