You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Export thread
2300 series 18hp kohler acts like out of fuel once warmed up
#1
K
knack
K
knack
I have a 2300 Series Cub with a 18 hp Kohler single cylinder. Problem is it runs good until it gets up to operating temp then it acts like it runs out of fuel. Carb has been cleaned, new air filter, fuel filter, spark plug and oil was fresh at start of season. Could points cause this?
#2
Carscw
Does it start right back up or do you have to wait for it to cool off?
Two easy things to do
First when it start to act up take the gas cap off and see if it recovers. If it does then gas cap vent is clogged.
Second as soon as it dies pull the plug and check for spark.
When I say as soon as it dies I don't mean go look for your tools after it shuts off.
(( racing is the only sport that you need two balls ))
Carscw
I have a 2300 Series Cub with a 18 hp Kohler single cylinder. Problem is it runs good until it gets up to operating temp then it acts like it runs out of fuel. Carb has been cleaned, new air filter, fuel filter, spark plug and oil was fresh at start of season. Could points cause this?
Does it start right back up or do you have to wait for it to cool off?
Two easy things to do
First when it start to act up take the gas cap off and see if it recovers. If it does then gas cap vent is clogged.
Second as soon as it dies pull the plug and check for spark.
When I say as soon as it dies I don't mean go look for your tools after it shuts off.
(( racing is the only sport that you need two balls ))
#3
K
knack
Fired up the mower and finished mowing what was left, about 20 minutes worth of mowing and as I finished the last pass it started acting up again. I worked the choke halfway up to keep it running, killed the blades and pulled the gas cap. After about 45-60 seconds it returned to normal. So I pulled back out and ran down the driveway with the cap just sitting on the top of tank and after about 3-4 minutes of blowing off edges of drive it started again. Killed the blades, work the choke about half out and after 45-60 seconds it started running normal, repeated the same process 4 times, same result. It will start back up but I have to choke it to get her to fire. I'm thinking the points. I'm sure it has spark because it will fire and start, just not running normal. Although she acts like the fuel supply is barely enough to run when it does act up. I pulled the fuel line at the carb and cranked it up and fuel came out at a pretty good rate, however I might need to check this at time of issue. Points act up like this???
K
knack
Does it start right back up or do you have to wait for it to cool off?
Two easy things to do
First when it start to act up take the gas cap off and see if it recovers. If it does then gas cap vent is clogged.
Second as soon as it dies pull the plug and check for spark.
When I say as soon as it dies I don't mean go look for your tools after it shuts off.
(( racing is the only sport that you need two balls ))
Fired up the mower and finished mowing what was left, about 20 minutes worth of mowing and as I finished the last pass it started acting up again. I worked the choke halfway up to keep it running, killed the blades and pulled the gas cap. After about 45-60 seconds it returned to normal. So I pulled back out and ran down the driveway with the cap just sitting on the top of tank and after about 3-4 minutes of blowing off edges of drive it started again. Killed the blades, work the choke about half out and after 45-60 seconds it started running normal, repeated the same process 4 times, same result. It will start back up but I have to choke it to get her to fire. I'm thinking the points. I'm sure it has spark because it will fire and start, just not running normal. Although she acts like the fuel supply is barely enough to run when it does act up. I pulled the fuel line at the carb and cranked it up and fuel came out at a pretty good rate, however I might need to check this at time of issue. Points act up like this???
#4
K
knack
Pulled the cover and looked at the coil. It was super dirty, so I got everything cleaned up good an put it back together. It cranked right up and ran like a champ for the first hour and then started acting up again. If I turn off the blades and work the choke it will come out of it and return to normal idle and could go back to mowing but it did it 4-5 times before I finished mowing. It will start back up if I shut it off. Any ideas????
K
knack
Fired up the mower and finished mowing what was left, about 20 minutes worth of mowing and as I finished the last pass it started acting up again. I worked the choke halfway up to keep it running, killed the blades and pulled the gas cap. After about 45-60 seconds it returned to normal. So I pulled back out and ran down the driveway with the cap just sitting on the top of tank and after about 3-4 minutes of blowing off edges of drive it started again. Killed the blades, work the choke about half out and after 45-60 seconds it started running normal, repeated the same process 4 times, same result. It will start back up but I have to choke it to get her to fire. I'm thinking the points. I'm sure it has spark because it will fire and start, just not running normal. Although she acts like the fuel supply is barely enough to run when it does act up. I pulled the fuel line at the carb and cranked it up and fuel came out at a pretty good rate, however I might need to check this at time of issue. Points act up like this???
Pulled the cover and looked at the coil. It was super dirty, so I got everything cleaned up good an put it back together. It cranked right up and ran like a champ for the first hour and then started acting up again. If I turn off the blades and work the choke it will come out of it and return to normal idle and could go back to mowing but it did it 4-5 times before I finished mowing. It will start back up if I shut it off. Any ideas????
#5
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
There are no points on your engine and it is no an electrical problem. If this came into the shop I would be removing the carb, ultrasonically clean it, replace the float needle and seat, and reassemble.
#6
D
DaveTN
D
DaveTN
I agree w/ Rivets. Sounds like a fuel starvation problem. A good carburetor cleaning and boiling out would help. Could also be a blockage of some foreign material in the fuel line or where it enters the carburetor above the needle and seat. Even a small blockage can shut an engine down. I've seen engines idle fine for 20 minutes and no problem, but put them under a load where they need more fuel and they'll cut out, have to disengage blades and hobble back to the garage on 1/2 choke.
#7
G
greynold99
G
greynold99
I'm having this same problem on a 1996 Cub Cadet 2135 12 hp Kohler engine and have a couple of observations and questions that I'd like to note and to ask...
1. The issue for me is associated with outside heat and subsequently the engine temperature. For example, yesterday we had our first 70 degree temp in a while and I mowed for 2 hours with only a slight sputter when climbing 10 degree incline with mower engaged. Had to disengage mower and half-choke to continue running to get to level at top of hill... once there pushed choke OFF and re-engaged mower with no further problems for remaining mowing time about half-hour. When its 85 degrees outside or hotter, engine cuts out sooner with need to choke and dis-engage mower - On hottest day, it stalled out and I couldn't get it started until it cooled down by the next day. Climbing hill isn't particularly related to issue but load on engaged mower when deck set LOW is related - cutting @height set to "4" reduces problem occurrence. Wouldn't a carb/fuel issue present itself at any time and not consistently after an hour or two mowing?
2. Why were 2 different Float Pins used in these Walbro carbs - a fatter pin made completely out of stainless steel and the other a thinner stainless steel w/rubber point at tip (this is the one I have and had to take back the original carb rebuild kit to exchange)?
3. How do you get the seat-washer part of the carb rebuild kit out of the orifice easily where the pin seats?
4. What do you mean above '... boil the carb' - All I've ever seen was to spray Gumout carb cleaner all over & inside the carb and spray with compressed air?
5. Can you describe procedure for correctly cleaning out gas tank cap vents? Do you need to run compressed air through the vent-holes that you see or do you need to soak in carb cleaner as well?
Thanks,
Greynold99
1. The issue for me is associated with outside heat and subsequently the engine temperature. For example, yesterday we had our first 70 degree temp in a while and I mowed for 2 hours with only a slight sputter when climbing 10 degree incline with mower engaged. Had to disengage mower and half-choke to continue running to get to level at top of hill... once there pushed choke OFF and re-engaged mower with no further problems for remaining mowing time about half-hour. When its 85 degrees outside or hotter, engine cuts out sooner with need to choke and dis-engage mower - On hottest day, it stalled out and I couldn't get it started until it cooled down by the next day. Climbing hill isn't particularly related to issue but load on engaged mower when deck set LOW is related - cutting @height set to "4" reduces problem occurrence. Wouldn't a carb/fuel issue present itself at any time and not consistently after an hour or two mowing?
2. Why were 2 different Float Pins used in these Walbro carbs - a fatter pin made completely out of stainless steel and the other a thinner stainless steel w/rubber point at tip (this is the one I have and had to take back the original carb rebuild kit to exchange)?
3. How do you get the seat-washer part of the carb rebuild kit out of the orifice easily where the pin seats?
4. What do you mean above '... boil the carb' - All I've ever seen was to spray Gumout carb cleaner all over & inside the carb and spray with compressed air?
5. Can you describe procedure for correctly cleaning out gas tank cap vents? Do you need to run compressed air through the vent-holes that you see or do you need to soak in carb cleaner as well?
Thanks,
Greynold99
#8
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Carbs, can do funny things. Problems occur at weird times. On really hot days, I would check your spark when unit dies and won't restart.
2. Two different float needles? The solid needle goes with the viton seat and the viton tip needle is used with a solid seat.
3. They make a special tool to remove the viton seat. If you raid your better half's crochet hooks, a #5 crochet hook works perfectly or go to the sewing shop a spend $2.00.
4. I don't boil carbs, too messy. You can get a carb cleaner at the auto parts store, which you can soak the carb in before rebuilding. Or see if you local repair shop has an ultrasonic cleaner, definitely worth the charge.
5. If the cap vents are plugged, I would just replace it.
2. Two different float needles? The solid needle goes with the viton seat and the viton tip needle is used with a solid seat.
3. They make a special tool to remove the viton seat. If you raid your better half's crochet hooks, a #5 crochet hook works perfectly or go to the sewing shop a spend $2.00.
4. I don't boil carbs, too messy. You can get a carb cleaner at the auto parts store, which you can soak the carb in before rebuilding. Or see if you local repair shop has an ultrasonic cleaner, definitely worth the charge.
5. If the cap vents are plugged, I would just replace it.
#9
G
greynold99
G
greynold99
Thanks Rivets,
It's interesting that I've come across 3 separate posts on this forum that relate similar issues with Cub Cadet lawn tractors and like I said, I still can't account for the good hour or two of mowing that you can get before the issue presents itself. I'd thought a dirty carb would tend to sputter out on you any time but who knows what effect the added heat is contributing.
But I will try what you suggest for ultrasonic carb cleaning and carb rebuild. The carb rebuild kit that I got to replace the original one with a single, fat Float Pin looked like it had "more pieces" than what was going to fit in my carb - that's why I asked.
Last year and this year I've replaced the air cleaner, fuel filter, ignition coil, spark plug, battery (this just went dead this past Spring after 3 yrs service) - all seemed to help for awhile but the problem returned with this years mowing as the Summer heated up. I use this with a plow during the winter and didn't have any problems with 160 ft of driveway to plow - takes about an hour and half with ft and half of snow to push back for the next dump.
One last question... I don't suspect any thing's wrong with the fuel pump, but I wondered why they don't make a fuel-pump rebuilt kit instead of selling you a new one @$50.00? Don't the Cub fuel pumps have diaphragms or are they strictly mechanical drive fuel delivery systems? I've never had mine off to look at, but it appears easy to get to on the opposite side of the engine from the carb-side.
Thanks,
greynold99
It's interesting that I've come across 3 separate posts on this forum that relate similar issues with Cub Cadet lawn tractors and like I said, I still can't account for the good hour or two of mowing that you can get before the issue presents itself. I'd thought a dirty carb would tend to sputter out on you any time but who knows what effect the added heat is contributing.
But I will try what you suggest for ultrasonic carb cleaning and carb rebuild. The carb rebuild kit that I got to replace the original one with a single, fat Float Pin looked like it had "more pieces" than what was going to fit in my carb - that's why I asked.
Last year and this year I've replaced the air cleaner, fuel filter, ignition coil, spark plug, battery (this just went dead this past Spring after 3 yrs service) - all seemed to help for awhile but the problem returned with this years mowing as the Summer heated up. I use this with a plow during the winter and didn't have any problems with 160 ft of driveway to plow - takes about an hour and half with ft and half of snow to push back for the next dump.
One last question... I don't suspect any thing's wrong with the fuel pump, but I wondered why they don't make a fuel-pump rebuilt kit instead of selling you a new one @$50.00? Don't the Cub fuel pumps have diaphragms or are they strictly mechanical drive fuel delivery systems? I've never had mine off to look at, but it appears easy to get to on the opposite side of the engine from the carb-side.
Thanks,
greynold99
#10
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
The old metal fuel pumps, which were rebuildable, have gone away in this disposable society. When purchasing a new one I always search other companies as most are the same. The cheapest I have found lately is Briggs.
Also a thought, have you checked the pulse line to the pump? It may have have a very small crack, which will open as it gets warm.
Also a thought, have you checked the pulse line to the pump? It may have have a very small crack, which will open as it gets warm.
#11
G
greynold99
G
greynold99
Rivets,
I think you may be on to something with the looking for a crack or loose fitting hose connection in the fuel line somewhere. The fact that once the tractor cools off and then starts right up for another hour or so of mowing would suggest something heat-related... Plus the fact, I've already replaced the ignition coil would to me be more reasonable than a carb-issue.
When you talk about the 'pulse line' which section of tubing are you referring to? There seems to be 3 sections: flexible rubber/pvc tubing from gas tank to fuel pump; a small section of tubing connecting the outlet-side of the fuel pump to metal-tubing that goes through the engine section (under the cover where I can't see) to a piece of flexible rubber tubing on the opposite-side where the metal tubing comes out to the carburetor.
Also, it's interesting to me that there are at least 3 other issues being reported on the forum with similar issue for these Series 2000 Cub tractors of the about the same age.
Thanks for replying and sorry I didn't pick back up on this to respond earlier.
Greynold99
I think you may be on to something with the looking for a crack or loose fitting hose connection in the fuel line somewhere. The fact that once the tractor cools off and then starts right up for another hour or so of mowing would suggest something heat-related... Plus the fact, I've already replaced the ignition coil would to me be more reasonable than a carb-issue.
When you talk about the 'pulse line' which section of tubing are you referring to? There seems to be 3 sections: flexible rubber/pvc tubing from gas tank to fuel pump; a small section of tubing connecting the outlet-side of the fuel pump to metal-tubing that goes through the engine section (under the cover where I can't see) to a piece of flexible rubber tubing on the opposite-side where the metal tubing comes out to the carburetor.
Also, it's interesting to me that there are at least 3 other issues being reported on the forum with similar issue for these Series 2000 Cub tractors of the about the same age.
Thanks for replying and sorry I didn't pick back up on this to respond earlier.
Greynold99
#13
Fish
Fish
Please post the model and spec numbers off of the engine.
#14
G
greynold99
Sorry for delay in getting back to this post but I wanted to try replacing the cheapo fuel line clamps Cub uses with small stainless screw-clamps... and, I thought I was onto something as the engine on starting up, sounded better to me than usual - although it's consistently started up good. But an hour later and I was having to disengage the mower and half-choke it to keep the engine running; although once I would start downhill or on the flats I could take off the choke and start the mower deck up again. I didn't replace all the clamps - namely the one underneath the fuel tank but only the 4-after the fuel-pump to pulse line to carburetor on the other side of the engine where it goes through as steel tubing.
I did have a question about the fuel tank and the fuel line connection... With fuel-filler cap off and looking down into the fuel tank, it looks like there is something more than just a hole-in-the-tank where the fuel line connects. Can someone comment on how those tanks are constructed and what, if anything could be clogging the outlet port? I'm going back to thinking about why the issue occurs mostly under-load while going up hill with this question.
Anyway, the full engine description is: Kohler Command 12.5 HP OHV, Model CH12.5S, S/N 2507317414, Spec No 1920, Disp(cc) 308
Family SKH398U262RA
Finally, I noticed there's another recent post on this type of issue with these older Cubs w/Kohler engines.
Thanks,
Greynold99
G
greynold99
Please post the model and spec numbers off of the engine.
Sorry for delay in getting back to this post but I wanted to try replacing the cheapo fuel line clamps Cub uses with small stainless screw-clamps... and, I thought I was onto something as the engine on starting up, sounded better to me than usual - although it's consistently started up good. But an hour later and I was having to disengage the mower and half-choke it to keep the engine running; although once I would start downhill or on the flats I could take off the choke and start the mower deck up again. I didn't replace all the clamps - namely the one underneath the fuel tank but only the 4-after the fuel-pump to pulse line to carburetor on the other side of the engine where it goes through as steel tubing.
I did have a question about the fuel tank and the fuel line connection... With fuel-filler cap off and looking down into the fuel tank, it looks like there is something more than just a hole-in-the-tank where the fuel line connects. Can someone comment on how those tanks are constructed and what, if anything could be clogging the outlet port? I'm going back to thinking about why the issue occurs mostly under-load while going up hill with this question.
Anyway, the full engine description is: Kohler Command 12.5 HP OHV, Model CH12.5S, S/N 2507317414, Spec No 1920, Disp(cc) 308
Family SKH398U262RA
Finally, I noticed there's another recent post on this type of issue with these older Cubs w/Kohler engines.
Thanks,
Greynold99
#15
K
knack
K
knack
My Cub is still acting up. Howeverif i pull the air filter and cruise the yard with the hood up i can spray some fuel in the carb and she pulls right back up to normal RPMs. I notice the fuel filter is not staying full when it acts up as well. Pulled fuel pump, all looks good. Replaced rubber fuel line and clamps but only between pump and carb left steel line between pump / carb. If i loosen fuel cap there is no improvement. Still think something between tank and carb. Only need to squeeze a few more cuts this year and plan on buying new this fall!!!
#16
D
DaveTN
D
DaveTN
If you're riding on that mower w/ the air breather off and squirting carburetor cleaner in it and it'll pick up and run, you've definitely got a fuel starvation problem! Sounds like some small piece of trash getting over the inlet above the float needle and starving it for fuel. Or something causing the fuel flow to weaken or stop....perhaps some small obstruction in the fuel line intermittently starving the engine for fuel? If the filter is not getting gas the trouble would have to be above it going to the tank and including the tank. Could be dead insects in the tank as several mechanics on here have found as well! I found a clear piece of plastic, a remnant once on a plastic carburetor causing the metering valve to become clogged and thus starve the engine and it would die. Let it sit for 5 minutes or so and it would start back up and do the same thing. I finally ran a wire through and broke it loose. Hard to say just where the foreign matter might be lurking. I've never had much trouble out of clamps causing fuel starvation, altho they may. In a pinch I'll use wire wrapped around the hose a couple of times and twisted together.
#17
P
packardv8
P
packardv8
Yes, my 2135 with 600 hours exhibited the same problems. My first diagnosis was coil, so I replaced that. If I ever go in there again, the shroud will get cut in half with an air tool.
Finally, I did find a small piece of trash in the needle. I replaced the small fuel filter with a large, clear automotive version so it's easily visible if fuel is making it to the carb.
jack vines
Finally, I did find a small piece of trash in the needle. I replaced the small fuel filter with a large, clear automotive version so it's easily visible if fuel is making it to the carb.
jack vines