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2021 BB Rogue engine struggling

#1

H

HunterTR

Hi - Posting here to see if anyone can help with an issue that I'm running into with my 2021 Bad Boy Rogue. I've had the mower for a little over a year, and cut 3.5 acres a week - only residential (not used for commercial). The past couple of weeks the engine (KW 1000) seems to start struggling periodically. It will run fine for a while, then start to struggle like it is having a hard time getting gas. I notice it mostly when turning at the bottom of an incline and trying to go back up. And it's consistently sporadic - the next time up the same hill it will be fine.

I changed the oil a week before the issue started, and it ran fine the week after before the issue started. I've changed the fuel filter and both spark plugs. I always run mid-grade gas in it. When I changed the fuel filter, gas was coming out pretty strong so I don't think there is a blockage anywhere. Haven't changed the air filters, but they look pretty clean.

Any other things I can check before I have to take it to a shop? Thanks in advance!


#2

S

slomo

Manicured lawn or pasture hay?


#3

B

bertsmobile1

Drop the carb & clean it
Check for water in the fuel
Faultering when turning is often a pool of water sitting on the bottom of the bowl
Remove the rocker cover & check the valve lash
Kawasaki's are very touchy about valve lash
The service manual is a free download from Kawasaki


#4

H

hlw49

Did you put gas in it just before it started. Check for water.


#5

H

HunterTR

slomo said:
Manicured lawn or pasture hay?
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Normal yard - kept cut every week


#6

H

HunterTR

hlw49 said:
Did you put gas in it just before it started. Check for water.
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I usually top it off every week before I mow. Not sure how water would have gotten in there but I guess it's possible. It's been happening for about 3 weeks.


#7

H

HunterTR

bertsmobile1 said:
Drop the carb & clean it
Check for water in the fuel
Faultering when turning is often a pool of water sitting on the bottom of the bowl
Remove the rocker cover & check the valve lash
Kawasaki's are very touchy about valve lash
The service manual is a free download from Kawasaki
Click to expand...
Thanks. I'll do some searching around and see if I can find more info to check this.


#8

S

slomo

HunterTR said:
engine (KW 1000) seems to start struggling periodically. It will run fine for a while, then start to struggle like it is having a hard time getting gas. I notice it mostly when turning at the bottom of an incline and trying to go back up. And it's consistently sporadic
Click to expand...
Indicative of a fuel system restriction/water/carb or an ignition coil going bad. You are losing either air, fuel, spark or compression.
HunterTR said:
I've changed the fuel filter and both spark plugs.
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Say it isn't so......
HunterTR said:
I always run mid-grade gas in it
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87 octane 100% gas at 5 bucks a gallon now is all you need. You gain nothing from any fuel over 87 octane in a lawn mower.
HunterTR said:
When I changed the fuel filter, gas was coming out pretty strong so I don't think there is a blockage anywhere.
Click to expand...
That is promising. Better test is take a glass canning jar at 1 quart size. Drain AT carb into said jar. Fill jar all the way up. Look for water in the bottom as Bert said. Don't spill it. You are holding $1.25 in gas LOL. Nothing but gas, dump back into the tank THROUGH a coffee filter and funnel.
HunterTR said:
Haven't changed the air filters, but they look pretty clean.
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Leave them alone until you have running issues. As in it takes a couple more cranks to fire her up deal. Losing power constantly and running rich - black smoke out the muffkin.

1.So a year old mower. Doubt the cooling fins are clogged BUT you never know. Clean the block and cooling fins. This is a yearly must do item in yours and every other engine manual out there.

2.Test for spark. Old plug gapped at 1/4" wide. Check for nice blue spark.


#9

B

BigBlueEdge

If by "KW 1000" you mean the Kawasaki 1000 engine, isn't that fuel injected? There won't be a carb involved if that is the case.

Check your wiring related to the fuel pump and in general on your battery connections. A loose/weak ground connection can cause a lot of flakey situations that are sporadic and hard to diagnose.


#10

M

MParr

BigBlueEdge said:
If by "KW 1000" you mean the Kawasaki 1000 engine, isn't that fuel injected? There won't be a carb involved if that is the case.

Check your wiring related to the fuel pump and in general on your battery connections. A loose/weak ground connection can cause a lot of flakey situations that are sporadic and hard to diagnose.
Click to expand...
Kawasaki make both an EFI and carbureted version of the FX1000


#11

H

hlw49

In the bottom of the carb there is a drain screw. Take clear container and loosen the screw and drain the bowl. If it has water in it, it will settle to the bottom and you will be able to see it.


#12

H

HunterTR

hlw49 said:
In the bottom of the carb there is a drain screw. Take clear container and loosen the screw and drain the bowl. If it has water in it, it will settle to the bottom and you will be able to see it.
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Thanks. Out of town for the week but have some things to try when I get back. I'll post results when I have them.


#13

H

HunterTR

Ok - here's an update. Ran it down to 1/8 of a tank last week and drained the rest out. Filled back up halfway with fresh gas. Ran okay for a bit after that. Started it up today and cut the flat part of my yard (about an acre). Ran fine for about 45 minutes. I turned off the mower deck to move to a different part - still all flat - and after driving about 30 yards I turned the deck back on. It immediately started struggling. If I tried to move forward (still completely flat ground) it would bog down and almost die. I had to shut it off completely and then restart it. After restarting, it ran fine again. Grass is finish cut so the bogging down had nothing to do with grass height.

Came in for lunch and then went back out to cut around my house. Immediately started struggling again. Starting and stopping made no difference.

No clue at this point, so probably headed to the shop for the second time in a little over a year that I have owned it....


#14

B

bertsmobile1

Struggeling with the blades on but running fine when they are turned off is a sign of reduced fuel supply .
I would be draining the tank then washing it out
Floating debris, usually grass clippings can partially block off the fuel outlet


#15

C

ChillyB

I also thing it's a fuel quality issue. I'd give it a carb rebuild. Id also drain the tanks and get them completely empty before refilling. You could have had some residual ethanol slime in a low point after draining.

Your carb might be plugged where it'll marginally fuel the engine until the slightest bit of ethanol water/slime hits it. I'd also replace fuel lines.

Outboard boat motor experience: that glossy gray fuel line is of the devil. It has a lining that delaminates and acts like a check valve. Doesnt belong on a mower but people do stuff to things.


#16

S

slomo

Do you have an old fuel can that the spout is wide open?
1659955435652.jpeg

Or a new can that is a pain to pour out of? Spout sealed up like a bank vault? I recommend this one below in red. Mine is spring loaded with o-rings keeping the can sealed. This type keeps the fuel much longer before going stale. Get one for all your cans.
1659955453523.jpeg


#17

H

HunterTR

Final update - took it to a shop and determined it was a bad plug. I had replaced both plugs a few weeks ago, but apparently one was bad. Guy at the shop identified it as soon as I fired it up and backed it off the trailer. He said it sounded like it was only running one one cylinder initially, and then the second one kicked in a few seconds later. Probably why the issue was intermittent (sometimes struggled and other times didn't). Shop replaced the bad plug and ran it for a while to confirm everything was okay. Didn't charge me too much for the simple fix 🙂. I ran it for 3-4 hours this weekend and had no issues, so at this point it appears the issue is resolved.


#18

B

BigBlueEdge

Interesting. Thanks for the update. You just don't hear about spark plugs going bad very much these days.


#19

C

ChillyB

Glad it was inexpensive. What was brand of the failed plug? Champion? Or a Chinketty brand from an Amazon service kit?


#20

B

bertsmobile1

BigBlueEdge said:
Interesting. Thanks for the update. You just don't hear about spark plugs going bad very much these days.
Click to expand...
You do if you run a repair workshop
Car plugs don't give the same problems as they used to but mower engines do
because of EPA regulations the centre electrode is no longer glazed so if a spark starts tracking down it there is no fix other than change it .
Cleaning it with a wire brush will create a tracking path


#21

M

MParr

HunterTR said:
Final update - took it to a shop and determined it was a bad plug. I had replaced both plugs a few weeks ago, but apparently one was bad. Guy at the shop identified it as soon as I fired it up and backed it off the trailer. He said it sounded like it was only running one one cylinder initially, and then the second one kicked in a few seconds later. Probably why the issue was intermittent (sometimes struggled and other times didn't). Shop replaced the bad plug and ran it for a while to confirm everything was okay. Didn't charge me too much for the simple fix 🙂. I ran it for 3-4 hours this weekend and had no issues, so at this point it appears the issue is resolved.
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Were these the original plugs? What brand and part number? Any signs of fouling? I’m interested in knowing.


#22

S

slomo

Doesn't matter, just a bad plug people. Guy is cutting grass now. Funny all the vigilanties looking to slam some brand of plugs here LOL.

One plug out of 74 trillion now and counting...... :D


#23

M

MParr

slomo said:
Doesn't matter, just a bad plug people. Guy is cutting grass now. Funny all the vigilanties looking to slam some brand of plugs here LOL.

One plug out of 74 trillion now and counting...... :D
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Not by me. We are starting to see counterfeit plugs showing up in purchases from Amazon and EBay.
An authentic plug can be bad off of the assembly line.
A plug can be damaged before being installed.
Fouling can occur in new engines that aren’t tuned correctly.
I had a garbage Yamaha engine that fouled plugs quickly. That junk is gone.


#24

B

bertsmobile1

MParr said:
Not by me. We are starting to see counterfeit plugs showing up in purchases from Amazon and EBay.
An authentic plug can be bad off of the assembly line.
A plug can be damaged before being installed.
Fouling can occur in new engines that aren’t tuned correctly.
I had a garbage Yamaha engine that fouled plugs quickly. That junk is gone.
Click to expand...
Actually you are wrong
Each & every spark plug is tested and graded as they come off the machines before they are stamped & printed
So there is no such thing as a bad in the box genuine spark plug
However there is no longer any glaze on the centre insulator so once a single spark has tracked down the nose that plug is junked
Add to that modern fuels ( which are not petrol ) are quite conductive at combustion chamber pressures .
So then you have a situation that just enough fuel condenses on the insulator to allow the first spark to track down the side rather than jump the gap and that plug is deceased .
This is why a lot of modern engines use igniters rather than standard plugs or have coil packs on each lead so that the first spark is always a good one .

Mower plugs have a hard life as the magneto voltage is proportional to the engine speed so at starter speeds you get a low energy spark which is very likely to be too small to jump the gap on the first combustion cycles thus the plug gets wet .

I have sat on the end of a spark plug machine for nearly a year till they abolished the night shift


#25

M

MParr

bertsmobile1 said:
Actually you are wrong
Each & every spark plug is tested and graded as they come off the machines before they are stamped & printed
So there is no such thing as a bad in the box genuine spark plug
However there is no longer any glaze on the centre insulator so once a single spark has tracked down the nose that plug is junked
Add to that modern fuels ( which are not petrol ) are quite conductive at combustion chamber pressures .
So then you have a situation that just enough fuel condenses on the insulator to allow the first spark to track down the side rather than jump the gap and that plug is deceased .
This is why a lot of modern engines use igniters rather than standard plugs or have coil packs on each lead so that the first spark is always a good one .

Mower plugs have a hard life as the magneto voltage is proportional to the engine speed so at starter speeds you get a low energy spark which is very likely to be too small to jump the gap on the first combustion cycles thus the plug gets wet .

I have sat on the end of a spark plug machine for nearly a year till they abolished the night shift
Click to expand...
So, there is no chance of damage between the factory and before installation?
I suppose that there is no such thing as counterfeit plugs being sold on Amazon and EBay.


#26

B

bertsmobile1

MParr said:
So, there is no chance of damage between the factory and before installation?
I suppose that there is no such thing as counterfeit plugs being sold on Amazon and EBay.
Click to expand...
Considering the way plugs are packed, being the 144 plug plates that go to engine factories, the individual boxed premium plugs ( they are the ones that passed with flying colours ) or the blister backed supermarket plugs ( the ones that did not do so well ) then your answer is just about no .
As for counterfeit plugs, I hear about them but I can not see any profit in counterfeiting a std $ 2 spark plug
Now counterfitting a $ 20 exotic metal spark plug then yes that would be worthwhile but AFAIK there are no mowers that run platinum plugs standard let alone Iridium plugs


#27

C

ChillyB

slomo said:
Doesn't matter, just a bad plug people. Guy is cutting grass now. Funny all the vigilanties looking to slam some brand of plugs here LOL.

One plug out of 74 trillion now and counting...... :D
Click to expand...
I think it matters. His first post says he just changed the plugs. Then the issue is diagnosed as a bad plug. Parts are parts parts for you? Tires are tires. Blades are blades. Mowers are mowers. Gas is gas. Filters are just filters, if it fits run it.

Amazon sellers dont "counterfeit" Chinese plugs. They sell convenient cheap parts with names like "savior" on the spark plug. A chainsaw service kit WITH CARB costs $15 (carb, air filter, fuel filter, fuel hoses, primer bulb). That junk doesnt go on my saw. Junk plugs dont go on my anything.

Still interested to know the plug brand. You know, so I can be an unreasonable vigilante (somehow).


#28

B

bertsmobile1

ChillyB said:
I think it matters. His first post says he just changed the plugs. Then the issue is diagnosed as a bad plug. Parts are parts parts for you? Tires are tires. Blades are blades. Mowers are mowers. Gas is gas. Filters are just filters, if it fits run it.

Amazon sellers dont "counterfeit" Chinese plugs. They sell convenient cheap parts with names like "savior" on the spark plug. A chainsaw service kit WITH CARB costs $15 (carb, air filter, fuel filter, fuel hoses, primer bulb). That junk doesnt go on my saw. Junk plugs dont go on my anything.

Still interested to know the plug brand. You know, so I can be an unreasonable vigilante (somehow).
Click to expand...
No idea about the USA because the market there is a lot bigger but down here spark plugs were made in Sydney & Melbourne which are 800 miles apart.
Cars were made in Sydney, Melbourne & Adelaide .
Spark plug profits are very small and transport costs are big so the Champion plant in Sydney made every brand of plug apart from Bosch and the factory in Melbourne did the same.
Now while the parts were different they were all made on the same machine in Sydney, Melbourne had a bigger turn over so they may have had more than one line so different brands could have been made on different machines but in Sydney, all out of the same one .
So I always find brand arguements quite amusing down here .
and FWIW spark plugs and dry cell battery plants are the only ones have seen where proper automation.
Even back as far as the 70's the only human part was to wheel the racks of parts into the feed slots and wheel the stillages of plugs to the packing line.
No human hand touched anything other than the QC guy pulling the odd one off the machine for lab testing .


#29

S

slomo

MParr said:
Not by me. We are starting to see counterfeit plugs showing up in purchases from Amazon and EBay.
Click to expand...
Agree and very old news. Most items not all, on fleabay and amazon, are Chinese knock offs. Starting to see........ Dude this is a 20+ year old message.
MParr said:
A plug can be damaged before being installed.
Click to expand...
Shipping and the like, sure can. Fork lifts and so on....
MParr said:
Fouling can occur in new engines that aren’t tuned correctly.
Click to expand...
Sounds proper. Not a plug problem though.


#30

L

lugbolt

I sold/serviced OEM equipment for over 30 years

in that 30 years I had TWO bad NGK spark plugs. TWO. Out of...gosh...tens of thousands?

not to say it doesn't happen. Because it does/and did. Just not frequently.

Champion I had lots of those bad, right out of the box. Tested or not, they was bad. "Lots" meaning maybe 25 total? More often than it should have been for sure! Usually on gas burner Kohler and Briggs...as kawasaki uses NGK as does Kubota (KZG770 engine).

Recently ran into some motorcraft plugs that was bad, arcing INSIDE the insulator (visible from the outside). Brand new, came right from Ford. Had it been down in the well of a DOHC engine, I'd never have noticed it. These were on the race car, so not a huge deal except it was significantly down on power. After not finding a clear-cut problem at the track, I drug it home and in the shop it was sitting there idling-and there it was. #8 cyl. I might still have it on video somewhere. #6 didn't look too hot either, had signs of carbon tracking along the bottom of the insulator, looked like it was arcing from OEM. I say "OEM" because we ordered them from Kubota. They probably got 'em from Champion directly. the insulator to the hex. In 30 years of messing with this car I've always run Motorcraft or Autolite (3933 Autolites were usually a little better running than the motorcrafts, but I recently learned that Autolite moved their operations elsewhere, and the plugs even look different. I used them anyway and not even 5 minutes of run time I knew they were messed up. I put a set of Brisk Racing plugs in it and it seems to have solved the issue, although Brisk plugs are significantly more expensive. Didn't get to go this weekend (COVID) but I'll know next weekend for sure. Supposed to test Friday. Also on the old car (turbocharged) I always ran Autolites in that too, but the "new" plugs misfired occasionally. Put Motorcrafts in, ran perfect. Or as "perfect" as that thing would run. Fun little car, but it had to go to a new owner.


#31

S

slomo

lugbolt said:
I sold/serviced OEM equipment for over 30 years

in that 30 years I had TWO bad NGK spark plugs. TWO. Out of...gosh...tens of thousands?

not to say it doesn't happen. Because it does/and did. Just not frequently.

Champion I had lots of those bad, right out of the box. Tested or not, they was bad. "Lots" meaning maybe 25 total? More often than it should have been for sure! Usually on gas burner Kohler and Briggs...as kawasaki uses NGK as does Kubota (KZG770 engine).

Recently ran into some motorcraft plugs that was bad, arcing INSIDE the insulator (visible from the outside). Brand new, came right from Ford. Had it been down in the well of a DOHC engine, I'd never have noticed it. These were on the race car, so not a huge deal except it was significantly down on power. After not finding a clear-cut problem at the track, I drug it home and in the shop it was sitting there idling-and there it was. #8 cyl. I might still have it on video somewhere. #6 didn't look too hot either, had signs of carbon tracking along the bottom of the insulator, looked like it was arcing from OEM. I say "OEM" because we ordered them from Kubota. They probably got 'em from Champion directly. the insulator to the hex. In 30 years of messing with this car I've always run Motorcraft or Autolite (3933 Autolites were usually a little better running than the motorcrafts, but I recently learned that Autolite moved their operations elsewhere, and the plugs even look different. I used them anyway and not even 5 minutes of run time I knew they were messed up. I put a set of Brisk Racing plugs in it and it seems to have solved the issue, although Brisk plugs are significantly more expensive. Didn't get to go this weekend (COVID) but I'll know next weekend for sure. Supposed to test Friday. Also on the old car (turbocharged) I always ran Autolites in that too, but the "new" plugs misfired occasionally. Put Motorcrafts in, ran perfect. Or as "perfect" as that thing would run. Fun little car, but it had to go to a new owner.
Click to expand...
Good to know sir.


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