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1986 Toro Riding mower 8-32 with varnished carb problem
#1
D
davelakeside1
D
davelakeside1
Just picked up a 1986 Toro 56145 riding mower with an 8Hp Brigs & Stratton 191707-2132-01 engine. The carb on it is a 390811 which has been superseded to a 491590.
The mower has been used very little and has been sitting for a very long time. The carb, as one would expect, is really varnished up. I looked up the carb on the B&S site
and it's like $200 with shipping. Looked on ebay and the chinese ones are $30 to $60 with many complaints from buyers. A carb kit from B&S is about $30 #394698.
I haven't done a complete carb rebuild for years, Back then it was a simple take everything apart and spray it down with carb cleaner, put it all back together and go.
I'm not sure about carbs in the mid 80's. Are they still the old style design or are the fuel passages so small that you can't get anything through them.
I really don't want to go the $200 route, I thought that the $50 chinese route would be good, but not with all the complaints.
So any input/suggestions would be great at this point, especially either a good source for used or rebuilt carbs, or a good gallon can of carb cleaner to soak the carb
in for a few days.
The mower has been used very little and has been sitting for a very long time. The carb, as one would expect, is really varnished up. I looked up the carb on the B&S site
and it's like $200 with shipping. Looked on ebay and the chinese ones are $30 to $60 with many complaints from buyers. A carb kit from B&S is about $30 #394698.
I haven't done a complete carb rebuild for years, Back then it was a simple take everything apart and spray it down with carb cleaner, put it all back together and go.
I'm not sure about carbs in the mid 80's. Are they still the old style design or are the fuel passages so small that you can't get anything through them.
I really don't want to go the $200 route, I thought that the $50 chinese route would be good, but not with all the complaints.
So any input/suggestions would be great at this point, especially either a good source for used or rebuilt carbs, or a good gallon can of carb cleaner to soak the carb
in for a few days.
#2
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Nothing much has changed
Pull soak scrub rinse reassemble
Replace float needle & seat if required
Pull soak scrub rinse reassemble
Replace float needle & seat if required
#3
Douglasdzaster
Douglasdzaster
Your probably good with the kit. Pull the carburetor disassemble and soak it then spray carburetor cleaner through all the passages and a little compressed air. You may have to soak and clean a few times depending how bad it is. Then reassembled with the kit ( should have new needle,seat included). A sonic cleaner is the best if you want to spend the money on a one time repair. Let us know how it goes. Post a picture of the carburetor before you start if you like so we can see how bad it is. Good luck. Definitely stay away from the off brand carburetors they’re a waste of money.
#4
S
slomo
S
slomo
Wife's dishwasher is the king of carb washers. Sucker will come out like new. You need heat to help dislodge that varnish. Hot pot scrubber mode is the ticket. Remove float, needle and seat prior, common sense.
For rodding out jets I use fishing line or an obviously smaller paper clip than the hole to be rodded. Bread ties are good too. Zip off that plastic covering and you are left with a really fine wire. Go through the wife's bread tie stash and find what you need.
WEAR SAFETY GLASSES when spraying carb cleaner. If you get it in your eyes, you will know why I capped the letters.
slomo
For rodding out jets I use fishing line or an obviously smaller paper clip than the hole to be rodded. Bread ties are good too. Zip off that plastic covering and you are left with a really fine wire. Go through the wife's bread tie stash and find what you need.
WEAR SAFETY GLASSES when spraying carb cleaner. If you get it in your eyes, you will know why I capped the letters.
slomo
#5
D
davelakeside1
D
davelakeside1
Yup, that's the way it was 65 years ago, even with good gas back then, and before squirt cans of carb cleaner.Nothing much has changed
Pull soak scrub rinse reassemble
Replace float needle & seat if required
#6
D
davelakeside1
That's the way I was thinking. Spray down the outside first to get it as clean as I can then pull everything out and spray it some more until I get a good flow of cleaner out somewhere.
D
davelakeside1
Your probably good with the kit. Pull the carburetor disassemble and soak it then spray carburetor cleaner through all the passages and a little compressed air. You may have to soak and clean a few times depending how bad it is. Then reassembled with the kit ( should have new needle,seat included). A sonic cleaner is the best if you want to spend the money on a one time repair. Let us know how it goes. Post a picture of the carburetor before you start if you like so we can see how bad it is. Good luck. Definitely stay away from the off brand carburetors they’re a waste of money.
That's the way I was thinking. Spray down the outside first to get it as clean as I can then pull everything out and spray it some more until I get a good flow of cleaner out somewhere.
#7
D
davelakeside1
Never thought of the dishwasher! Have to do it when she's out, if you know what I mean! Using the monofilament fishing line is a new one on me. Years ago I used soft copper wire just small enough to get into the passages. Used to just push it in and pull out a few times and use a squirt bottle of acetone to flush out the passages. I like the idea of using the monofilament fishing line. No chance of scratching a seat and should make it's way through the tiny passages just fine. I live on a lake so there is always fishing line of several sizes available.
I think that I'll scrub the outside really good, then remove everything that I can, clean out the passages with the fishing line, carb cleaner and compressed air as best as I can, then run it through the dishwasher a time or two. Then install a rebuild kit. In between doing all that, I'll pull the tank and all the lines and shut off's. Clean the fittings all up and put on new lines.
Put on a new fuel filter. Other than final carb assembly, installation, and final adjustments, I can't think of anything else in the fuel system to do. I already changed the spark plug and checked for a good spark. Compression is good. Hope that's it, grass is getting long!
D
davelakeside1
Wife's dishwasher is the king of carb washers. Sucker will come out like new. You need heat to help dislodge that varnish. Hot pot scrubber mode is the ticket. Remove float, needle and seat prior, common sense.
For rodding out jets I use fishing line or an obviously smaller paper clip than the hole to be rodded. Bread ties are good too. Zip off that plastic covering and you are left with a really fine wire. Go through the wife's bread tie stash and find what you need.
WEAR SAFETY GLASSES when spraying carb cleaner. If you get it in your eyes, you will know why I capped the letters.
slomo
Never thought of the dishwasher! Have to do it when she's out, if you know what I mean! Using the monofilament fishing line is a new one on me. Years ago I used soft copper wire just small enough to get into the passages. Used to just push it in and pull out a few times and use a squirt bottle of acetone to flush out the passages. I like the idea of using the monofilament fishing line. No chance of scratching a seat and should make it's way through the tiny passages just fine. I live on a lake so there is always fishing line of several sizes available.
I think that I'll scrub the outside really good, then remove everything that I can, clean out the passages with the fishing line, carb cleaner and compressed air as best as I can, then run it through the dishwasher a time or two. Then install a rebuild kit. In between doing all that, I'll pull the tank and all the lines and shut off's. Clean the fittings all up and put on new lines.
Put on a new fuel filter. Other than final carb assembly, installation, and final adjustments, I can't think of anything else in the fuel system to do. I already changed the spark plug and checked for a good spark. Compression is good. Hope that's it, grass is getting long!
#8
Douglasdzaster
Douglasdzaster
I wouldn’t just spray it. If it’s varnished up bad it’ll need to soak. You want to get all the varnish so it doesn’t work loose and clog the carburetor. Then you start all over. I like the dishwasher idea. I’ve got a Yamaha outboard I might try cleaning the carburetors body’s that way. And yes wear safety glasses when spraying carburetor cleaner. I’ve thought I was being real carful before and get a face full from a jet or passage.That's the way I was thinking. Spray down the outside first to get it as clean as I can then pull everything out and spray it some more until I get a good flow of cleaner out somewhere.
#9
Douglasdzaster
Douglasdzaster
Got the right idea pulling the tank and cleaning it up and replacing fuel lines. Reply back on how the dishwasher works out for you. My curiosity is at a all time high. I can clean mine while the Admiral is at work. Lol Good luck, hope you end up with a smooth running machine.Never thought of the dishwasher! Have to do it when she's out, if you know what I mean! Using the monofilament fishing line is a new one on me. Years ago I used soft copper wire just small enough to get into the passages. Used to just push it in and pull out a few times and use a squirt bottle of acetone to flush out the passages. I like the idea of using the monofilament fishing line. No chance of scratching a seat and should make it's way through the tiny passages just fine. I live on a lake so there is always fishing line of several sizes available.
I think that I'll scrub the outside really good, then remove everything that I can, clean out the passages with the fishing line, carb cleaner and compressed air as best as I can, then run it through the dishwasher a time or two. Then install a rebuild kit. In between doing all that, I'll pull the tank and all the lines and shut off's. Clean the fittings all up and put on new lines.
Put on a new fuel filter. Other than final carb assembly, installation, and final adjustments, I can't think of anything else in the fuel system to do. I already changed the spark plug and checked for a good spark. Compression is good. Hope that's it, grass is getting long!
#10
S
slomo
Clean your engine cooling fins yearly per your engine manual. Neglect this and you are looking at engine damage.
slomo
S
slomo
Clean the carb and engine prior to removing parts. Will help keep dirt and grit out of the engine.That's the way I was thinking. Spray down the outside first to get it as clean as I can then pull everything out and spray it some more until I get a good flow of cleaner out somewhere.
Clean your engine cooling fins yearly per your engine manual. Neglect this and you are looking at engine damage.
slomo
#11
S
slomo
Most of the time I use an obviously smaller paper clip than the hole size. Mono line works good as it snakes it's way through the carb better than a wire will. Use what ever it takes to clean the carb.
slomo
S
slomo
Far as fishing lines goes, mono works good. If you have a stubborn clog use some braided line. That stuff is kinda abrasive but not stiff. Like holding the line between your fingers and reeling the line it. Hurts your fingers in no time.Never thought of the dishwasher! Have to do it when she's out, if you know what I mean! Using the monofilament fishing line is a new one on me. Years ago I used soft copper wire just small enough to get into the passages. Used to just push it in and pull out a few times and use a squirt bottle of acetone to flush out the passages. I like the idea of using the monofilament fishing line. No chance of scratching a seat and should make it's way through the tiny passages just fine. I live on a lake so there is always fishing line of several sizes available.
I think that I'll scrub the outside really good, then remove everything that I can, clean out the passages with the fishing line, carb cleaner and compressed air as best as I can, then run it through the dishwasher a time or two. Then install a rebuild kit. In between doing all that, I'll pull the tank and all the lines and shut off's. Clean the fittings all up and put on new lines.
Put on a new fuel filter. Other than final carb assembly, installation, and final adjustments, I can't think of anything else in the fuel system to do. I already changed the spark plug and checked for a good spark. Compression is good. Hope that's it, grass is getting long!
Most of the time I use an obviously smaller paper clip than the hole size. Mono line works good as it snakes it's way through the carb better than a wire will. Use what ever it takes to clean the carb.
slomo
#12
S
slomo
I put a filthy nasty filthy nasty grimy greasy Jeep valve cover in the dishwasher. Came out clean to the paint.
Remember max heat and most aggressive cycle your machine has.
slomo
S
slomo
Place the carb on the lower rack. Use some good Dawn DW soap. It's a poor man's parts washer built into your house. Small version of what engine machine shops have.Got the right idea pulling the tank and cleaning it up and replacing fuel lines. Reply back on how the dishwasher works out for you. My curiosity is at a all time high. I can clean mine while the Admiral is at work. Lol Good luck, hope you end up with a smooth running machine.
I put a filthy nasty filthy nasty grimy greasy Jeep valve cover in the dishwasher. Came out clean to the paint.
Remember max heat and most aggressive cycle your machine has.
slomo
#13
S
slomo
Don't forget those filthy nasty grimy sweaty couch pillows. Come out "smelling" and "looking" fresh and new.
Car floor mats???? You bet. Face them down on the bottom rack. If you can fit it in there it will get clean.
slomo
S
slomo
Check this. I have oily skin. Like most people I sweat a lot in the summer. My pillows used to be yellow years ago. Ewwww!!! Now the wife puts all our pillows in the dishwasher. They come out white AND all fluffed up. Don't know how the fluffing feature works but it does. And to add the wife puts 2 pillow cases on my side LOL.Got the right idea pulling the tank and cleaning it up and replacing fuel lines. Reply back on how the dishwasher works out for you. My curiosity is at a all time high. I can clean mine while the Admiral is at work. Lol Good luck, hope you end up with a smooth running machine.
Don't forget those filthy nasty grimy sweaty couch pillows. Come out "smelling" and "looking" fresh and new.
Car floor mats???? You bet. Face them down on the bottom rack. If you can fit it in there it will get clean.
slomo
#14
Douglasdzaster
Douglasdzaster
Good advice.Clean the carb and engine prior to removing parts. Will help keep dirt and grit out of the engine.
Clean your engine cooling fins yearly per your engine manual. Neglect this and you are looking at engine damage.
slomo
#15
Douglasdzaster
Douglasdzaster
Wow. A whole new world. Now I’m going to be looking for things to try. Lol I’ll be sure and tell my wife about the pillows. That’s cool.Check this. I have oily skin. Like most people I sweat a lot in the summer. My pillows used to be yellow years ago. Ewwww!!! Now the wife puts all our pillows in the dishwasher. They come out white AND all fluffed up. Don't know how the fluffing feature works but it does. And to add the wife puts 2 pillow cases on my side LOL.
Don't forget those filthy nasty grimy sweaty couch pillows. Come out "smelling" and "looking" fresh and new.
Car floor mats???? You bet. Face them down on the bottom rack. If you can fit it in there it will get clean.
slomo
#16
Douglasdzaster
Douglasdzaster
After the dishwasher I’d clean the passages one last time just to make sure the dishwasher didn’t leave anything it broke loose. But I’m meticulous that way.Never thought of the dishwasher! Have to do it when she's out, if you know what I mean! Using the monofilament fishing line is a new one on me. Years ago I used soft copper wire just small enough to get into the passages. Used to just push it in and pull out a few times and use a squirt bottle of acetone to flush out the passages. I like the idea of using the monofilament fishing line. No chance of scratching a seat and should make it's way through the tiny passages just fine. I live on a lake so there is always fishing line of several sizes available.
I think that I'll scrub the outside really good, then remove everything that I can, clean out the passages with the fishing line, carb cleaner and compressed air as best as I can, then run it through the dishwasher a time or two. Then install a rebuild kit. In between doing all that, I'll pull the tank and all the lines and shut off's. Clean the fittings all up and put on new lines.
Put on a new fuel filter. Other than final carb assembly, installation, and final adjustments, I can't think of anything else in the fuel system to do. I already changed the spark plug and checked for a good spark. Compression is good. Hope that's it, grass is getting long!
#17
S
slomo
Blow out with carb spray and compressed air both ways each hole. Wear safety glasses when spraying carb spray. As Bert said there's clean and then there's CLEAN.
On varnish, that heat and soap from the dishwasher makes it crack off and flake away easier. Don't know how bad yours is.
Filthy yard mowing shoes, dishwasher time. Brush the grass off first. Pretreat the shoes if really bad.
slomo
S
slomo
RightAfter the dishwasher I’d clean the passages one last time just to make sure the dishwasher didn’t leave anything it broke loose. But I’m meticulous that way.
Blow out with carb spray and compressed air both ways each hole. Wear safety glasses when spraying carb spray. As Bert said there's clean and then there's CLEAN.
On varnish, that heat and soap from the dishwasher makes it crack off and flake away easier. Don't know how bad yours is.
Filthy yard mowing shoes, dishwasher time. Brush the grass off first. Pretreat the shoes if really bad.
slomo
#18
Douglasdzaster
Douglasdzaster
Last time I put dish washing liquid in the dishwasher I had suds pouring out. We have an older dishwasher though. Thing won’t die so we can upgrade. LolPlace the carb on the lower rack. Use some good Dawn DW soap. It's a poor man's parts washer built into your house. Small version of what engine machine shops have.
I put a filthy nasty filthy nasty grimy greasy Jeep valve cover in the dishwasher. Came out clean to the paint.
Remember max heat and most aggressive cycle your machine has.
slomo
#19
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Before I got the ultrasound we used to boil the carbs
Big pot of water 2 x dishwasher tablets and a nice rolling boil for about 1/2 hour
Then rinse in hot water twice ( two lots of clean hot water from the tap )
Then a third rinse in clean boiling water for 10 minutes followed by a blow dry while still too hot to hold
This allows all of the water to evaporate and the 3 rinses means no soap residue.
Some I know add a rinse aid to the final rinse.
This can be done outside on the BBQ so will not cost you an expensive night out at a fancy resturant when you get caught .
Big pot of water 2 x dishwasher tablets and a nice rolling boil for about 1/2 hour
Then rinse in hot water twice ( two lots of clean hot water from the tap )
Then a third rinse in clean boiling water for 10 minutes followed by a blow dry while still too hot to hold
This allows all of the water to evaporate and the 3 rinses means no soap residue.
Some I know add a rinse aid to the final rinse.
This can be done outside on the BBQ so will not cost you an expensive night out at a fancy resturant when you get caught .
#20
Douglasdzaster
Douglasdzaster
I’ve heard of boiling but never tried it. I could do my boat carburetors and throw the jets in the pot as well I guess.Before I got the ultrasound we used to boil the carbs
Big pot of water 2 x dishwasher tablets and a nice rolling boil for about 1/2 hour
Then rinse in hot water twice ( two lots of clean hot water from the tap )
Then a third rinse in clean boiling water for 10 minutes followed by a blow dry while still too hot to hold
This allows all of the water to evaporate and the 3 rinses means no soap residue.
Some I know add a rinse aid to the final rinse.
This can be done outside on the BBQ so will not cost you an expensive night out at a fancy resturant when you get caught .
#21
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Yep,
I play the vintage & veteran motorcycles
Some might be lucky to get run once every 2 or more years so the carbs can get quite yucky
Then there are the ones that turn up in boxes that have been sitting for 50 years
I play the vintage & veteran motorcycles
Some might be lucky to get run once every 2 or more years so the carbs can get quite yucky
Then there are the ones that turn up in boxes that have been sitting for 50 years
#22
D
davelakeside1
D
davelakeside1
Cleaning the fins is a great idea. The old motors, that seemed to be needing something done to them all the time, it was common to have the top air shroud off at least once a year.
So when it's off you automatically cleaned all the old grass out along with anything else that collected in there. Today's motors, you don't have the covers off of them so often.
Some covers are buried and a fair bit of work to get them off, but the problem hasn't disappeared with all this technology. Saw a neighbors riding mower go up in flames 2 years
ago. Hot engine, spilled fuel, grass everywhere around the engine, started it up and it burst into flames. All we could think of was an arc from a bad plug wire ignited it.
Luckily, he jumped away quick and didn't get hurt. Moral of the story, keep your equipment clean and serviced, and be careful when refueling!
So when it's off you automatically cleaned all the old grass out along with anything else that collected in there. Today's motors, you don't have the covers off of them so often.
Some covers are buried and a fair bit of work to get them off, but the problem hasn't disappeared with all this technology. Saw a neighbors riding mower go up in flames 2 years
ago. Hot engine, spilled fuel, grass everywhere around the engine, started it up and it burst into flames. All we could think of was an arc from a bad plug wire ignited it.
Luckily, he jumped away quick and didn't get hurt. Moral of the story, keep your equipment clean and serviced, and be careful when refueling!
#23
D
davelakeside1
running right which led to them sitting. Then someone tried to start them up by adding some more gas into the tank and the carb, it didn't start or ran bad, and that gas was left
to evaporate and make the problem worse. Either boiling the carb or soaking it in a gallon can of carb cleaner was necessary to get the carb cleaned out, along with a rebuild kit.
This is pretty much where i'm at with my carb. I was wondering if there was anything new under the sun " a new product " that would cut through the varnish, but in the end,
the old ways are still the best ways!
D
davelakeside1
Works like a champ. Typically this was done on carbs that have been sitting for a long time and all the fuel simply evaporated. Most often the carbs/engine were neglected and notI’ve heard of boiling but never tried it. I could do my boat carburetors and throw the jets in the pot as well I guess.
running right which led to them sitting. Then someone tried to start them up by adding some more gas into the tank and the carb, it didn't start or ran bad, and that gas was left
to evaporate and make the problem worse. Either boiling the carb or soaking it in a gallon can of carb cleaner was necessary to get the carb cleaned out, along with a rebuild kit.
This is pretty much where i'm at with my carb. I was wondering if there was anything new under the sun " a new product " that would cut through the varnish, but in the end,
the old ways are still the best ways!
#24
Douglasdzaster
Douglasdzaster
You just described the condition of all three carburetors on my Yamaha outboard when I bought it. I had replaced the fuel system from tank To the carburetors and stopped there because it cranked and ran great until I noticed the carburetors leaking fuel. No problem needle and seat (NOPE)When I opened them up I was shocked. I don’t know how it was running. I had to soak then clean and soak again several times. The only thing I didn’t replace was the carburetor bodies them selfs. Jets where damaged where someone had tried to remove them. It took a machine shop. I got lucky the bodies had no pitting and all the new parts went right in. If I would have boiled them things may have went a little smoother. I have a Stihl blower that’s been sitting up for a while along with a straight shaft trimmer that needs a carburetor job. I’ll try boiling one and the dishwasher on the other. Both have my curiosity going. Thanks for the information.Works like a champ. Typically this was done on carbs that have been sitting for a long time and all the fuel simply evaporated. Most often the carbs/engine were neglected and not
running right which led to them sitting. Then someone tried to start them up by adding some more gas into the tank and the carb, it didn't start or ran bad, and that gas was left
to evaporate and make the problem worse. Either boiling the carb or soaking it in a gallon can of carb cleaner was necessary to get the carb cleaned out, along with a rebuild kit.
This is pretty much where i'm at with my carb. I was wondering if there was anything new under the sun " a new product " that would cut through the varnish, but in the end,
the old ways are still the best ways!
#25
S
slomo
S
slomo
Love the carb boiling idea Bert.
Thing is the wife goes into mommy mode about her pans LOL. I used to cook all the time. Now I'm not allowed in the kitchen LOL.
Think between the two methods, the boiling might be the winner?? Will have to get brave and try it.
slomo
Thing is the wife goes into mommy mode about her pans LOL. I used to cook all the time. Now I'm not allowed in the kitchen LOL.
Think between the two methods, the boiling might be the winner?? Will have to get brave and try it.
slomo
#26
Douglasdzaster
Douglasdzaster
I’m going to try it. I was just going to replace the two small carburetors I have. But I got to try boiling now.Love the carb boiling idea Bert.
Thing is the wife goes into mommy mode about her pans LOL. I used to cook all the time. Now I'm not allowed in the kitchen LOL.
Think between the two methods, the boiling might be the winner?? Will have to get brave and try it.
slomo
#27
D
davelakeside1
The last time I cleaned a carb up using this method spray carb cleaner was scarce so we used very small tips on an air gun to blow out and otherwise check to be certain that all the passages were cleaned. Today, I would, after the final boiling hot rinse, use a can of carb cleaner to blow out any remaining varnish. When all done tup some Chevron carb cleaner in the gas to get any tiny
bits of varnish out. Many layers of cleaning may or may not be required but they are easy and far less painful if you have to remove the carb and start all over again!
D
davelakeside1
Just be certain to follow the instructions exactly. The dissolved detergent works best when the parts are hot which loosens up all the old dried up deposits. Either detergent or TSP works well.I’m going to try it. I was just going to replace the two small carburetors I have. But I got to try boiling now.
The last time I cleaned a carb up using this method spray carb cleaner was scarce so we used very small tips on an air gun to blow out and otherwise check to be certain that all the passages were cleaned. Today, I would, after the final boiling hot rinse, use a can of carb cleaner to blow out any remaining varnish. When all done tup some Chevron carb cleaner in the gas to get any tiny
bits of varnish out. Many layers of cleaning may or may not be required but they are easy and far less painful if you have to remove the carb and start all over again!