Engine 17 HP Kohler Starting Problems

[Greatwhitewing]

Long saga with starting problems. See attachment for motor nameplate data. I have thoroughly cleaned ground and power connections several times. This has been going on for years now and I have read just about everything I could find with google.

My Kohler has hydraulic lifters (pushrods). I read un-adjusted valves can cause decompression mechanism not to work. Can find NO info for adjusting hydraulic lifters so I don't know if this is a problem or not.

Symtons- won't start unless a car is jumping the battery and car running. Battery packs for cars won't work and won't start unless the car is running. I know, far too much power but it's the only way to get it started and grass doesn't wait.

I have replaced battery, starter motor, solenoid and ignition switch. Solenoid and battery over the winter, Starter motor and ignition switch just now. After replacing solenoids and battery over the winter it started about 5 times normally then returned to needing a running car jump after that.

My plan is to try one more starter solenoid and then push it over a cliff unless I can get some suggestions I haven't considered yet.

 

[ILENGINE]

How about giving us the model number of the mower so we can see what setup you have. Also does the mower have an electric clutch, and have you checked it for seized bearings. I am wondering if the problem is not the engine but some other parasitic load causing issues.

 

[Greatwhitewing]

Not sure how this part helps but here is a photo of the mower nameplate. Seems to an engine thing but I sure haven't found the answer yet

How about giving us the model number of the mower so we can see what setup you have. Also does the mower have an electric clutch, and have you checked it for seized bearings. I am wondering if the problem is not the engine but some other parasitic load causing issues.

 

[Scrubcadet10]

since has hydraulic lifters, then there is no valve adjustment. they are aslo called Hydraulic Lash Adjusters (HLA's)

 

[bertsmobile1]

About a dozen time a year some one comes in with a mower that will not crank.
It rotates till it gets to compression and stops,
Usually they have spent near $ 1000 replacing parts , some times replacing the replacements.
The solution is always the same
Either adjust the valves or replace the cam shaft.
Usually like you it has been happening for years and they have just been working around it.
So in your case you will either have a faulty lifter or a worn out cam.

FWIW to test weather you have a problem with the cranking you simply hook up a jumper from the + on the starter motor to the + on the battery
If the results are the same as turning the key, the cranking circuit is fine.
You double check the ground by putting a jumper from the battery - to a good grounding spot ( I like the oil drain plug ) and see if that makes a difference.

Kohlers tend to suffer from crud build up on the bottom of the starter more than other brands .
The simple test it to feel the heat after cranking
The power goes through the field coils so the side of the starter should be a lot hotter than the bottom.
However you said you replaced the starter so provided you bought a certified good one from a real shop and not the cheapest one on Ebay a bad starter could be ruled out.

 

[Greatwhitewing]

Sounds like pushing it off a cliff is the right answer after all. Mine won't turn, once it does with a running car jump it starts right up.

Beginning think your idea of bad lifter or cam might be the culprit causing a hydraulic lock that only the over current of a running car jump can get past (reasonable?). I tried bypassing the ignition switch jumpering directly from the battery to the starter terminal, same behavior, nothing but that was the old starter. Haven't tried that with the new but I don't expect anything different.
Funny thing when it doesn't start I don't even get a click from the solenoid most times.

Since it's hydraulic valves there is no adjustment according to a reply on this thread and all I have read.

How big a job is it to replace lifters and/or cam? I assume it requires removing the engine from the mower. Cost? Parts available?

About a dozen time a year some one comes in with a mower that will not crank.
It rotates till it gets to compression and stops,
Usually they have spent near $ 1000 replacing parts , some times replacing the replacements.
The solution is always the same
Either adjust the valves or replace the cam shaft.
Usually like you it has been happening for years and they have just been working around it.
So in your case you will either have a faulty lifter or a worn out cam.

FWIW to test weather you have a problem with the cranking you simply hook up a jumper from the + on the starter motor to the + on the battery
If the results are the same as turning the key, the cranking circuit is fine.
You double check the ground by putting a jumper from the battery - to a good grounding spot ( I like the oil drain plug ) and see if that makes a difference.

Kohlers tend to suffer from crud build up on the bottom of the starter more than other brands .
The simple test it to feel the heat after cranking
The power goes through the field coils so the side of the starter should be a lot hotter than the bottom.
However you said you replaced the starter so provided you bought a certified good one from a real shop and not the cheapest one on Ebay a bad starter could be ruled out.

 

[Scrubcadet10]

A camshaft is $150.
That comes with the cam and camshaft thrust washers.
It would most likely take removing the engine, unless the crankcase cover is on top of the engine.

 

[bertsmobile1]

A cam shaft is not a difficult job, but a big one with all of the cleaning & adjusting and of course it is an engine out job.
That is a fairly old mower so it is up to you if you feel it is worth it.
No problems with B & S cause their parts are cheap but Kohler parts are much more expensive.
My customers generally spring for a replacement engine & I give them a reasonable trade in on the dead one.
I keep telling myself that I will pull few down & make a good one or two out of them but it rarely happens .
Mostly I sell 3 to a novice racer for what I traded them for.
Parts books & service books are available directly from Kohler as a free download but I find it easier to go here https://www.mymowerparts.com/pdf/Kohler-Service-and-Repair-Manuals/
To do a cam shaft you will also need at least a sump gasket, rocker gasket & crankshaft oil seal.
In theory you can leave the head on.
I always take it off ( customer pays for the new gasket in any case ) to check the bore as I give 12 months on repairs.

If you want to go through with it then take lots of photos, particularly of the controls & springs on the controls.
We will be here to walk you through it.
Not particularly difficult but a first timers should allocate a weekend or two as just getting the drive pulleys off can be an all day affair.

 

[Fish]

Have you removed and cleaned where the negative cable bolts to the frame?

 

[Greatwhitewing]

Yes, several times. Even cleaned where the rectifier (I think that;'s what it is) mounts. Inspected and tested every cable in the high current path.

Have you removed and cleaned where the negative cable bolts to the frame?