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07 Dixie losses power

#1

Yuke

Yuke

Yes my 07 Dixie with 27 hp. EFI engine losses power big time. Very strange that it comes and goes. I put another fuel filter on wich did nothing . I was leaning towards a fuel issue or possibly coil? Has anyone else has this issue?


#2

StarTech

StarTech

Can be just be a bad spark plug wire terminal losing contact.I have seen this on non EFI engines.

Just a side note here as I have yet to have lawn mowers in the shop with EFI engines.


#3

Yuke

Yuke

Thank You for the reply . I will check that .


#4

S

slomo

Air or water cooled engine?


#5

Yuke

Yuke

It is an air cooled 27 h.p. on a Dixie Chopper, Kohler fuel injected. Problem seems electronic as it does tend to correct itself but shortly goes back to like half throttle. Mower was made in 07. I own it about 2-3 yrs. I am leaning towards a coil going bad.


#6

S

skiman

first off i dont believe kohler made EFI engines in 07...they still made DAS coils...Digital Advanced Spark...with external control box on the commands and electronics buried in the coils of the courage engines...if you have a 3 prong plug going to your coil its a DAS setup...the fix is to go back to conventional coils...kohler sells a kit to do this...the commands requires both the coils and flywheels to change and the courage just needs the coils changed out...the DAS was done to get more hp at the top end from a smaller engine...OEM Engines sells these kits


#7

StarTech

StarTech

skiman said:
first off i dont believe kohler made EFI engines in 07...they still made DAS coils...Digital Advanced Spark...with external control box on the commands and electronics buried in the coils of the courage engines...if you have a 3 prong plug going to your coil its a DAS setup...the fix is to go back to conventional coils...kohler sells a kit to do this...the commands requires both the coils and flywheels to change and the courage just needs the coils changed out...the DAS was done to get more hp at the top end from a smaller engine...OEM Engines sells these kits
Click to expand...
Kohler’s EFI engine technology was first put into action by mower-maker Walker Manufacturing in 1998. Today, Kohler’s EFI System is available on seven different brands of commercial lawnmowers, and that number could grow to 19 by the end of this year.

So yes it is possible that the DC has an EFI setup. But do need the model and spec numbers off the engine to be sure.


#8

S

skiman

StarTech said:
Kohler’s EFI engine technology was first put into action by mower-maker Walker Manufacturing in 1998. Today, Kohler’s EFI System is available on seven different brands of commercial lawnmowers, and that number could grow to 19 by the end of this year.

So yes it is possible that the DC has an EFI setup. But do need the model and spec numbers off the engine to be sure.
Click to expand...
i did say i dont believe...didnt say it was a fact...was pointing out another possibility to the problem at hand...


#9

Yuke

Yuke

The engine # is ( 3611516501). I know the mower was made in 10/06 and sold in spring of 07. The model mower is XWF2700-60 Quad Loop . I say it's an EFI electronic fuel injected motor because I do not see a carb on it. I am leaning towards a coil going out because of the symptoms. Seems to start acting up after it warms up about 30 min. into cutting and the more strain or full cut or higher grass. It usually slows to about 1/2 throttle then speeds up to full throttle but does not hold 30 seconds then slows back down again. I hate to cut grass at 1/2 throttle or 1600 rpm. as I know that's hard on the engine. So far I have changed the fuel filter, cleaned air filter and tried no air filter momentarily, cleaned both spark plugs on one the tip was corroded cleaned that and pulled 1 spark plug at a time when running and each had an effect on engine speed so I think both cyls. are firing. Problem seems to arise when mower is at operating temp. and under load. It got so bad last time cutting the mower stopped problem seems to be getting worse with every use. I think I would like to get either a spark plug or a coil checker under load tester but do not know what brand is good.


#10

S

skiman

Yuke said:
The engine # is ( 3611516501). I know the mower was made in 10/06 and sold in spring of 07. The model mower is XWF2700-60 Quad Loop . I say it's an EFI electronic fuel injected motor because I do not see a carb on it. I am leaning towards a coil going out because of the symptoms. Seems to start acting up after it warms up about 30 min. into cutting and the more strain or full cut or higher grass. It usually slows to about 1/2 throttle then speeds up to full throttle but does not hold 30 seconds then slows back down again. I hate to cut grass at 1/2 throttle or 1600 rpm. as I know that's hard on the engine. So far I have changed the fuel filter, cleaned air filter and tried no air filter momentarily, cleaned both spark plugs on one the tip was corroded cleaned that and pulled 1 spark plug at a time when running and each had an effect on engine speed so I think both cyls. are firing. Problem seems to arise when mower is at operating temp. and under load. It got so bad last time cutting the mower stopped problem seems to be getting worse with every use. I think I would like to get either a spark plug or a coil checker under load tester but do not know what brand is good.
Click to expand...
whats the actual male of the engine.. take a photo of the model no.and post it here...


#11

sgkent

sgkent

with EFI there are usually temperature sensors that send some kind of signal to the ECU. Sometimes those sensors are grounded into the block, and they can get corrosion in them, or go bad. When they do, depending what the ECU is programed to do, it can add too much fuel or cut back on it, or even go into a limp mode. I think the first thing I would look for is a manual on the EFI system and how to troubleshoot it. Without that, you are just wasting your time looking for the cause, and it will get expensive throwing parts at it. An inductive timing light across a plug wire if it is exposed would probably fire the strobe. If you can set it close to you and pull the trigger when it is running badly you can check each plug to see if it is sparking. Personally I would have replaced the plugs if there was corrosion on them. Also inspect the engine housing to be sure it is spotless. That can also throw EFI temperature readings off. The last thing would be to look for a NOID light that fits the injector harness. They you can test to see if the injector is getting a signal. Another possibility is an injector that is sticky. Maybe add a can of fuel injector cleaner to see if that helps, whatever the MANUFACTURER recommends. I would guess Techron or some derivative of it but I don't know for sure. Sometimes with EFI systems a smoke test helps if there are any vacuum leaks. It is the plethora of sensors that will require a manual.


#12

H

hlw49

You are right with the engine serial no. it is a 2006. But first off if you suspect the spark plugs why would you try and clean them just replace them. Next read the blink codes. Beside the ignition switch there is a small light that lights up while the engine is running. To read the codes you turn the ign. switch on and off three times and leave it on the third time and it will blink a code. The trick to it is 10 flashes is 0. So say you have a code 0031 you would have 10 flashes a one second pause 10 flashes and a one second pause 3 flashes a one second pause and 1 flash. If you have multiple codes you would have a 3 second delay after the first code and them the next code. After it has flashed all the codes it will flash a code 61. This is telling you it has flashed all the codes or if it flashes 61 first it has no stored codes to read Those things did not give much trouble as long a no one messed with them and screwed things up. The biggest problem with them was the O2 sensor and that was rare. They run in open loop until the engine warms up them go to closed loop mode and that is where they run. That is unless you have a problem and then they will run in limp mode which is half throttle and it is only to get you back to the house or garage. Not to finish mowing the yard. By the way code 0031 is an O2 sensor code. Try unplugging the O2 sensor and see if it clears up. If so it is the O2 sensor. Here is a list of the codes does not list them like it should so I put a / between codes

Diagnostic Fault Code Summary Fault Code Connection or Failure Description 0031 Oxygen Sensor Heater Circuit Low Voltage 0032 Oxygen Sensor Heater Circuit High Voltage/ 0107 Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP or TMAP) Sensor Circuit Low Voltage or Open / 0108 Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP or TMAP) Sensor Circuit High Voltage / 0112 Intake Air Temperature (IAT or TMAP) Sensor Circuit Low Voltage / 0113 Intake Air Temperature (IAT or TMAP) Sensor Circuit High Voltage or Open / 0117 Coolant/Oil Temperature Sensor Circuit Low Voltage / 0118 Coolant/Oil Temperature Sensor Circuit High Voltage or Open / 0122 Throttle Position Sensor Circuit Low Voltage or Open / 0123 Throttle Position Sensor Circuit High Voltage / 0131 Oxygen Sensor 1 Circuit Low Voltage, or Open / 0132 Oxygen Sensor 1 Circuit High Voltage / 0171 Maximum Adaptation Limit Exceeded / 0172 Minimum Adaptation Limit Exceeded / 0174 Lean Fuel Condition at High Load (Open Loop) / 0201 Injector 1 Circuit Malfunction / 0202 Injector 2 Circuit Malfunction Hope this helps.


#13

Yuke

Yuke

skiman said:
whats the actual male of the engine.. take a photo of the model no.and post it here...
Click to expand...
It is a Kohler engine


#14

Yuke

Yuke

hlw49 said:
You are right with the engine serial no. it is a 2006. But first off if you suspect the spark plugs why would you try and clean them just replace them. Next read the blink codes. Beside the ignition switch there is a small light that lights up while the engine is running. To read the codes you turn the ign. switch on and off three times and leave it on the third time and it will blink a code. The trick to it is 10 flashes is 0. So say you have a code 0031 you would have 10 flashes a one second pause 10 flashes and a one second pause 3 flashes a one second pause and 1 flash. If you have multiple codes you would have a 3 second delay after the first code and them the next code. After it has flashed all the codes it will flash a code 61. This is telling you it has flashed all the codes or if it flashes 61 first it has no stored codes to read Those things did not give much trouble as long a no one messed with them and screwed things up. The biggest problem with them was the O2 sensor and that was rare. They run in open loop until the engine warms up them go to closed loop mode and that is where they run. That is unless you have a problem and then they will run in limp mode which is half throttle and it is only to get you back to the house or garage. Not to finish mowing the yard. By the way code 0031 is an O2 sensor code. Try unplugging the O2 sensor and see if it clears up. If so it is the O2 sensor. Here is a list of the codes does not list them like it should but I have double spaced between codes.

Diagnostic Fault Code Summary Fault Code Connection or Failure Description 0031 Oxygen Sensor Heater Circuit Low Voltage 0032 Oxygen Sensor Heater Circuit High Voltage 0107 Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP or TMAP) Sensor Circuit Low Voltage or Open 0108 Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP or TMAP) Sensor Circuit High Voltage 0112 Intake Air Temperature (IAT or TMAP) Sensor Circuit Low Voltage 0113 Intake Air Temperature (IAT or TMAP) Sensor Circuit High Voltage or Open 0117 Coolant/Oil Temperature Sensor Circuit Low Voltage 0118 Coolant/Oil Temperature Sensor Circuit High Voltage or Open 0122 Throttle Position Sensor Circuit Low Voltage or Open 0123 Throttle Position Sensor Circuit High Voltage 0131 Oxygen Sensor 1 Circuit Low Voltage, or Open 0132 Oxygen Sensor 1 Circuit High Voltage 0171 Maximum Adaptation Limit Exceeded 0172 Minimum Adaptation Limit Exceeded 0174 Lean Fuel Condition at High Load (Open Loop) 0201 Injector 1 Circuit Malfunction 0202 Injector 2 Circuit Malfunction Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
Thank-you for all that information HLW I will try to see if it has any codes. Never knew there was a way to read codes or that it had an ECM if I knew that I would have never bought it. I like old stuff that never breaks. Never knew that just dirt build up on an engine could put you in limp mode which is what I think it's doing. Maybe it could be as simple as washing the motor would cure it ?


#15

StarTech

StarTech

Yuke said:
The engine # is ( 3611516501). I know the mower was made in 10/06 and sold in spring of 07. The model mower is XWF2700-60 Quad Loop . I say it's an EFI electronic fuel injected motor because I do not see a carb on it. I am leaning towards a coil going out because of the symptoms. Seems to start acting up after it warms up about 30 min. into cutting and the more strain or full cut or higher grass. It usually slows to about 1/2 throttle then speeds up to full throttle but does not hold 30 seconds then slows back down again. I hate to cut grass at 1/2 throttle or 1600 rpm. as I know that's hard on the engine. So far I have changed the fuel filter, cleaned air filter and tried no air filter momentarily, cleaned both spark plugs on one the tip was corroded cleaned that and pulled 1 spark plug at a time when running and each had an effect on engine speed so I think both cyls. are firing. Problem seems to arise when mower is at operating temp. and under load. It got so bad last time cutting the mower stopped problem seems to be getting worse with every use. I think I would like to get either a spark plug or a coil checker under load tester but do not know what brand is good.
Click to expand...
Well the engine's serial number posted comes comes back as a carbureted engine. (Single Barrel Carburetor PN 24 853 92-S superseded to 24 853 317-S)
1661424493645.png
I just recently had to replace one of these carbs due to it running extremely rich under heavy loads. But I think that was cause by the previous tech that so called repaired the Exmark.

And yes an ignition coil be failing after it get heat soaked.


#16

Yuke

Yuke

Star Tech you are right the engine is not EFI I think I do see a carb buried in there. I tried to take a picture of it and post it and it will not let me says file is too big for server how do I post the picture on here?


#17

S

slomo

Yuke said:
Star Tech you are right the engine is not EFI I think I do see a carb buried in there. I tried to take a picture of it and post it and it will not let me says file is too big for server how do I post the picture on here?
Click to expand...
What did it say when you tried? Picture is too large? Crop it or reduce file size then repost.

More pictures the better. Already a huge confusion on what the engine actually was. On page 2 now and haven't started fixing anything yet.


#18

Yuke

Yuke

slomo said:
What did it say when you tried? Picture is too large? Crop it or reduce file size then repost.

More pictures the better. Already a huge confusion on what the engine actually was. On page 2 now and haven't started fixing anything yet.
Click to expand...

slomo said:
What did it say when you tried? Picture is too large? Crop it or reduce file size then repost.

More pictures the better. Already a huge confusion on what the engine actually was. On page 2 now and haven't started fixing anything yet.
Click to expand...

Attachments





#19

Yuke

Yuke

Here is a shot from other side.

Attachments





#20

S

slomo

Same shots. File name is the same also.


#21

StarTech

StarTech

Definitely carburetor there. It is kinda a pain to get off too as it is setup like the Exmark I did recently. The air filter has to be take a loose just to get the air cleaner to carburetor adapter off due breather hose adapter. Then the two carburetor studs has to be removed to get the carburetor off. Not hard to do; just time assuming aggravating setup.


#22

H

hlw49

Yuke said:
Thank-you for all that information HLW I will try to see if it has any codes. Never knew there was a way to read codes or that it had an ECM if I knew that I would have never bought it. I like old stuff that never breaks. Never knew that just dirt build up on an engine could put you in limp mode which is what I think it's doing. Maybe it could be as simple as washing the motor would cure it ?
Click to expand...
I would not wash it with water electrical parts don't like water.
according to the serial no.


#23

Yuke

Yuke

StarTech said:
Definitely carburetor there. It is kinda a pain to get off too as it is setup like the Exmark I did recently. The air filter has to be take a loose just to get the air cleaner to carburetor adapter off due breather hose adapter. Then the two carburetor studs has to be removed to get the carburetor off. Not hard to do; just time assuming aggravating setup.
Click to expand...
Yes sounds frustrating I don't think I'm going to mess with that at this point yet because I really don't think a carb could go back and forth so often like clogged not clogged. I think I will use it some more and next time the engine slows down to half throttle I will pull a spark plug wire one at a time and see if the engine stops or not. I will update next time I use it.


#24

S

slomo

Fuel or spark issue.


#25

Yuke

Yuke

Yes some how I have to narrow it down. Thanx


#26

StarTech

StarTech

It would definitely be easier to troubleshoot if the problem wasn't intermittent. Problems like this can drive you nuts and it is the reason I have 6 acres to mow for testing mowers that have these problems as you got to test while it is screwing up.

There are days that I just wish to pull out my Commache III and shoot the equipment putting it out of my and its misery.:LOL: My pond water is already full holes.


#27

Yuke

Yuke

Ok since my last post I used the mower 2 times. First time I used it worked fine total time about .5 hr. When I used it today after about 15 min. of running the rpm. dropped in half drove it back to shop and pulled the plug wires 1 at a time first one I pulled on right rear engine stopped would not run telling me problem cylinder is on left. When I put right rear plug wire on engine would run. Then when I put the left one back on engine ran at full rpm again and for about another .5 hr. till I fi ished. So I guess my problem is in either plug or coil on left side of engine? Should I purchase a coil n plug for this? Is there a difference between left and right coils? Is it hard to put on?


#28

B

bertsmobile1

Remove the kill wires on the coils and see what it does


#29

Yuke

Yuke

bertsmobile1 said:
Remove the kill wires on the coils and see what it does
Click to expand...
Where are they located is it 1 one or 2 seems like only the left rear side is cutting out.


#30

B

bertsmobile1

Take both off
A faulty coil can cause the other one to spark at the wrong time


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