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Zero turn mulching woes
#1
R
Rabbit929
R
Rabbit929
hello, first time poster long time reader.
to get to the point skip to “The Point.” But here’s the backstory.
I had a lawn business from age 10-19. At 14 bought my first 52” “White outdoor” 24hp zero turn. And business was good. Stayed BEVERY busy.
since I grew up and got out of it I finally decided to get back in a bit after my snow blowing operation turned very successful. Bought another 42” gravely zero turn. Love it.
The Point:
I installed a mulch kit with blades and frankly it cuts like crap. Tried removing the baffles and only leaving the block-off plate baffle and it’s much better but leaves a windrow.
anyone have any solution, where I don’t have to side discharge?? My entire yard is flowers and curb, and adding a bagger is outside my size restrictions and budget.
im thinking about drilling holes in the plate to allow some airflow and adding gator mulching blades, I just want to mow without spraying grass in $15,000 flower beds.
any advice is appreciated.
to get to the point skip to “The Point.” But here’s the backstory.
I had a lawn business from age 10-19. At 14 bought my first 52” “White outdoor” 24hp zero turn. And business was good. Stayed BEVERY busy.
since I grew up and got out of it I finally decided to get back in a bit after my snow blowing operation turned very successful. Bought another 42” gravely zero turn. Love it.
The Point:
I installed a mulch kit with blades and frankly it cuts like crap. Tried removing the baffles and only leaving the block-off plate baffle and it’s much better but leaves a windrow.
anyone have any solution, where I don’t have to side discharge?? My entire yard is flowers and curb, and adding a bagger is outside my size restrictions and budget.
im thinking about drilling holes in the plate to allow some airflow and adding gator mulching blades, I just want to mow without spraying grass in $15,000 flower beds.
any advice is appreciated.
#2
StarTech
StarTech
One one the keys to using a mulching deck is keeping the grass short and mowing a lot slower. I just got to use a $17,000 Hustler with mulching deck and even it has problems cutting thick grass.
#3
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Windrows happen because
the volume of clippings exceeds the space for them to go
You are mowing too fast
The grass is too wet or lush
The deck & blade combo are not working with each other
When you actually think about it, mulching is a very difficult job for the deck
First it has to lift the grass blades so they can be cut, then hold the clippings up for long enough to chop them up finely then drop them down to hide between the cut grass blades
The only 2 mowers I have come across that do it really well are the Walkers & Husqvarna articulated mowers and both of these have a dedicated mulching deck
After that he wavey Husqvarna mulching blades do a reasonably good job if they are actually installed right way up.
Gators do not mulch, they recut the clippings very fine and then throw a short distance .
This is much easier to do airflow wise and the clippings will vanish in a day or so but you must leave the discharge port open.
Universal decks are actually correctly named as they are universally poor at throwing, bagging & mulching.
If your only problem is throwing grass over the garden look for a rear discharge deck
the volume of clippings exceeds the space for them to go
You are mowing too fast
The grass is too wet or lush
The deck & blade combo are not working with each other
When you actually think about it, mulching is a very difficult job for the deck
First it has to lift the grass blades so they can be cut, then hold the clippings up for long enough to chop them up finely then drop them down to hide between the cut grass blades
The only 2 mowers I have come across that do it really well are the Walkers & Husqvarna articulated mowers and both of these have a dedicated mulching deck
After that he wavey Husqvarna mulching blades do a reasonably good job if they are actually installed right way up.
Gators do not mulch, they recut the clippings very fine and then throw a short distance .
This is much easier to do airflow wise and the clippings will vanish in a day or so but you must leave the discharge port open.
Universal decks are actually correctly named as they are universally poor at throwing, bagging & mulching.
If your only problem is throwing grass over the garden look for a rear discharge deck
#4
M
MParr
M
MParr
Gator blades are about useless during the growing season. During the growing season, grass holds a good bit of moisture. Gator blades will make a soupy mess under your deck and drop clumps all over your yard.hello, first time poster long time reader.
to get to the point skip to “The Point.” But here’s the backstory.
I had a lawn business from age 10-19. At 14 bought my first 52” “White outdoor” 24hp zero turn. And business was good. Stayed BEVERY busy.
since I grew up and got out of it I finally decided to get back in a bit after my snow blowing operation turned very successful. Bought another 42” gravely zero turn. Love it.
The Point:
I installed a mulch kit with blades and frankly it cuts like crap. Tried removing the baffles and only leaving the block-off plate baffle and it’s much better but leaves a windrow.
anyone have any solution, where I don’t have to side discharge?? My entire yard is flowers and curb, and adding a bagger is outside my size restrictions and budget.
im thinking about drilling holes in the plate to allow some airflow and adding gator mulching blades, I just want to mow without spraying grass in $15,000 flower beds.
any advice is appreciated.
#5
R
Rabbit929
I guess I’m just asking what can I do to make it cut normal, without having the side discharge??
R
Rabbit929
you are right, that is my only problem. But after dropping $4000 on a new zero turn finding a replacement deck for it (as no one’s gonna buy the old one) that’s not an option.If your only problem is throwing grass over the garden look for a rear discharge deck
I guess I’m just asking what can I do to make it cut normal, without having the side discharge??
#6
R
Rabbit929
im just trying to get a nice cut without spraying it everywhere, I’m not much of a believer in mulching as I’ve been doing it for years and there’s really no disconcernable difference from lawns I did with or without. The main benefit I’ve found is not seeing the clippings as much for a couple days, it my straight mows always were just as green and healthy as my mulched yards.
now that I’m doing significantly smaller yards, the spray is the problem. So I fixed the spray, and it cuts like crap because of it. And I really hate to drop $1000 on a bagger to deal with that and haul it across town, taking nutrients away and generating extra work.
i can handle re-hitting the window, I just want it to cut good.
R
Rabbit929
Noted, thank you. What would you recommend that will not mulch so much as just drop the grass where it lays?Gator blades are about useless during the growing season. During the growing season, grass holds a good bit of moisture. Gator blades will make a soupy mess under your deck and drop clumps all over your yard.
im just trying to get a nice cut without spraying it everywhere, I’m not much of a believer in mulching as I’ve been doing it for years and there’s really no disconcernable difference from lawns I did with or without. The main benefit I’ve found is not seeing the clippings as much for a couple days, it my straight mows always were just as green and healthy as my mulched yards.
now that I’m doing significantly smaller yards, the spray is the problem. So I fixed the spray, and it cuts like crap because of it. And I really hate to drop $1000 on a bagger to deal with that and haul it across town, taking nutrients away and generating extra work.
i can handle re-hitting the window, I just want it to cut good.
#7
M
MParr
M
MParr
Put your mulching kit back in and don’t take too much off at one time. A deck, with a mulching kit, can only process so much at one time.
The are other alternatives. Bag it. Use a walk behind mower with mulch kit next to your flower beds.
Buy a rear discharge zero turn. That option might be too expensive
The are other alternatives. Bag it. Use a walk behind mower with mulch kit next to your flower beds.
Buy a rear discharge zero turn. That option might be too expensive
#9
R
Rabbit929
yeah I’ve tried slow and easy but it’s just too lush. Even after hitting it multiple times its still leaving strips of uncut grass, idk I was hoping there might be a solution but it sounds like I’ll just have to manage with the side discharge.
even the dealer said “we‘ve sold those mulch kits but no one keeps them on.”
I can see why. No matter the speed it just doesn’t want to do it. Maybe x-blade munchers? I dont know.
R
Rabbit929
Put your mulching kit back in and don’t take too much off at one time. A deck, with a mulching kit, can only process so much at one time.
The are other alternatives. Bag it. Use a walk behind mower with mulch kit next to your flower beds.
Buy a rear discharge zero turn. That option might be too expensive
yeah I’ve tried slow and easy but it’s just too lush. Even after hitting it multiple times its still leaving strips of uncut grass, idk I was hoping there might be a solution but it sounds like I’ll just have to manage with the side discharge.
even the dealer said “we‘ve sold those mulch kits but no one keeps them on.”
I can see why. No matter the speed it just doesn’t want to do it. Maybe x-blade munchers? I dont know.
#10
M
MParr
M
MParr
You don’t have a whole lot of options with the 42” deck.yeah I’ve tried slow and easy but it’s just too lush. Even after hitting it multiple times its still leaving strips of uncut grass, idk I was hoping there might be a solution but it sounds like I’ll just have to manage with the side discharge.
even the dealer said “we‘ve sold those mulch kits but no one keeps them on.”
I can see why. No matter the speed it just doesn’t want to do it. Maybe x-blade munchers? I dont know.
#11
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
No rotary can cut grass then leave it just where it was cut
Todo that you need a scissor action so you are looking at a barrel mower or a sickle mower
The first give the best cut but require a lot of work to keep the cutters sharp and will lot tollerate the smallest of sticks or really tough grass
The second is cumbersome , again requires a lot of work to keep the blades sharp and is easily damaged
Flail mowers are the best all round at this but AFAIK the only small flail is an option on the Husqvarna P524 articulated out front mowers which down here lighten you wallet by $ 30,000 ( aus ) .
Just because you want some thing does not mean that some one will make it for a price you are comfortable paying.
Cheapest solution would be a used Walker or GrassHopper if it has to be a ZTR
Otherwise there are quite a few rear discharge tractor style mowers , with or without catchers .
I think the Stiga's are the cheapest
Todo that you need a scissor action so you are looking at a barrel mower or a sickle mower
The first give the best cut but require a lot of work to keep the cutters sharp and will lot tollerate the smallest of sticks or really tough grass
The second is cumbersome , again requires a lot of work to keep the blades sharp and is easily damaged
Flail mowers are the best all round at this but AFAIK the only small flail is an option on the Husqvarna P524 articulated out front mowers which down here lighten you wallet by $ 30,000 ( aus ) .
Just because you want some thing does not mean that some one will make it for a price you are comfortable paying.
Cheapest solution would be a used Walker or GrassHopper if it has to be a ZTR
Otherwise there are quite a few rear discharge tractor style mowers , with or without catchers .
I think the Stiga's are the cheapest
#12
R
Rabbit929
R
Rabbit929
I understand entirely, but respectfully I somewhat disagree.
mom not looking for perfection here, just a reliable decent cut. Nothing golf-course ish.
but as an update, I did put my mulching kit back on, and put the factory blades back on. And the cut is significantly improved at a tall cut down to 3”. A few random stragglers, but it’s at least manageable.
the factory mulch blades gravely/Ariel’s sells I think have such a terrible amount of lift, it won’t pull the grass up to properly cut it. I found I could go over the same spot 4 times and still not get a proper cut. The standard blades do a better job with slight blowout, but I’m ok with that, as installing the side-discharge chute wouldnt allow it to fit through my fence, and would contaminate the flower beds.
i believe when there is a will there is a way, and there isn’t a whole lot of science to a standard mower deck that makes it incapable of providing a perfectly flawless cut like my walk-behind Honda. im even considering measuring my blades and putting my dual blade Honda blades on it, (not xblades, more like twin blades with a few degree offset on top that’s smaller and lighter than the main blade) as that walk behind mulches like crazy.
ive seen a lot with this issue and no solid answer so I could easily say the most solid answer that doesn’t require you junking your brand new mower and buying a $10,000 specialized unit is medium lift blades and a baffled mulch kit seem to work very respectably. The mulching blades seem to pulverize it so much that 90% of your lawn sticks to your deck anyway, making the “free fertilizer” clump scrapings in your garage.
I just wanna mow windrow free, mulching is great and all but I don’t mind longer clippings so long as they are evenly spread and not in the flowerbeds.
mom not looking for perfection here, just a reliable decent cut. Nothing golf-course ish.
but as an update, I did put my mulching kit back on, and put the factory blades back on. And the cut is significantly improved at a tall cut down to 3”. A few random stragglers, but it’s at least manageable.
the factory mulch blades gravely/Ariel’s sells I think have such a terrible amount of lift, it won’t pull the grass up to properly cut it. I found I could go over the same spot 4 times and still not get a proper cut. The standard blades do a better job with slight blowout, but I’m ok with that, as installing the side-discharge chute wouldnt allow it to fit through my fence, and would contaminate the flower beds.
i believe when there is a will there is a way, and there isn’t a whole lot of science to a standard mower deck that makes it incapable of providing a perfectly flawless cut like my walk-behind Honda. im even considering measuring my blades and putting my dual blade Honda blades on it, (not xblades, more like twin blades with a few degree offset on top that’s smaller and lighter than the main blade) as that walk behind mulches like crazy.
ive seen a lot with this issue and no solid answer so I could easily say the most solid answer that doesn’t require you junking your brand new mower and buying a $10,000 specialized unit is medium lift blades and a baffled mulch kit seem to work very respectably. The mulching blades seem to pulverize it so much that 90% of your lawn sticks to your deck anyway, making the “free fertilizer” clump scrapings in your garage.
I just wanna mow windrow free, mulching is great and all but I don’t mind longer clippings so long as they are evenly spread and not in the flowerbeds.
Attachments
#14
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
BEcause you took it with a phone & not a camera then probably uploaded it from the said same phone.I have no idea why the website inverted the photo.
#15
B
bertsmobile1
Not that long ago you could get proper decks for domestic ride ons that would bag or throw or mulch perfectly
But Joe Public just would open their wallets far enough to make it profitable for mower companies to off 3 or 4 different variations of their deck in each cutting width.
SO JoePublic got what he deserves, junk.
Quality mower makers like Walker, Grasshopper . John Deere & Toro sell the deck as an individual item on all but their junk grade mowers for cheapskates .
Now because they decided to make only1 deck style in each size for the domestic ranges they make a UNIVERSAL deck to supply with them
Universal in this case is exactly what it says
Equally poor at catching , bagging or mulching
A couple of European mower companies do domestic mowers with rear catchers & counter rotating blades because Europeans will pay the extra for a quality product that does the job properly where as USA citizens by & large will not
Controlling the air flow in direction , velocity & quantity is very difficult on a pressed deck & near impossible with a fabricated deck
So without trying to sound abusive it is a case of pay up or shut up .
Add to that every lawn is different and when mower shops made good money, the sales staff would ask the customers about the type of grass, the topography of the yard, the type of soil before suggesting the best mower for their yard
but now days the profit is not enough for the accountants that run most mower franchises to offer proper pre sales customer service. particularly now days when pepole seem to think they have a God given right to suck the good sales staff for their knowledge then buy off Amazon because they can get it cheaper from a vendor who does absolutely nothing to help people get a mower that well suits their needs .
B
bertsmobile1
Contry to what you think there is a massive amount of science & engineering in a mower deck .I understand entirely, but respectfully I somewhat disagree.
mom not looking for perfection here, just a reliable decent cut. Nothing golf-course ish.
but as an update, I did put my mulching kit back on, and put the factory blades back on. And the cut is significantly improved at a tall cut down to 3”. A few random stragglers, but it’s at least manageable.
the factory mulch blades gravely/Ariel’s sells I think have such a terrible amount of lift, it won’t pull the grass up to properly cut it. I found I could go over the same spot 4 times and still not get a proper cut. The standard blades do a better job with slight blowout, but I’m ok with that, as installing the side-discharge chute wouldnt allow it to fit through my fence, and would contaminate the flower beds.
i believe when there is a will there is a way, and there isn’t a whole lot of science to a standard mower deck that makes it incapable of providing a perfectly flawless cut like my walk-behind Honda. im even considering measuring my blades and putting my dual blade Honda blades on it, (not xblades, more like twin blades with a few degree offset on top that’s smaller and lighter than the main blade) as that walk behind mulches like crazy.
ive seen a lot with this issue and no solid answer so I could easily say the most solid answer that doesn’t require you junking your brand new mower and buying a $10,000 specialized unit is medium lift blades and a baffled mulch kit seem to work very respectably. The mulching blades seem to pulverize it so much that 90% of your lawn sticks to your deck anyway, making the “free fertilizer” clump scrapings in your garage.
I just wanna mow windrow free, mulching is great and all but I don’t mind longer clippings so long as they are evenly spread and not in the flowerbeds.
Not that long ago you could get proper decks for domestic ride ons that would bag or throw or mulch perfectly
But Joe Public just would open their wallets far enough to make it profitable for mower companies to off 3 or 4 different variations of their deck in each cutting width.
SO JoePublic got what he deserves, junk.
Quality mower makers like Walker, Grasshopper . John Deere & Toro sell the deck as an individual item on all but their junk grade mowers for cheapskates .
Now because they decided to make only1 deck style in each size for the domestic ranges they make a UNIVERSAL deck to supply with them
Universal in this case is exactly what it says
Equally poor at catching , bagging or mulching
A couple of European mower companies do domestic mowers with rear catchers & counter rotating blades because Europeans will pay the extra for a quality product that does the job properly where as USA citizens by & large will not
Controlling the air flow in direction , velocity & quantity is very difficult on a pressed deck & near impossible with a fabricated deck
So without trying to sound abusive it is a case of pay up or shut up .
Add to that every lawn is different and when mower shops made good money, the sales staff would ask the customers about the type of grass, the topography of the yard, the type of soil before suggesting the best mower for their yard
but now days the profit is not enough for the accountants that run most mower franchises to offer proper pre sales customer service. particularly now days when pepole seem to think they have a God given right to suck the good sales staff for their knowledge then buy off Amazon because they can get it cheaper from a vendor who does absolutely nothing to help people get a mower that well suits their needs .
#16
R
Rabbit929
R
Rabbit929
Yeah that about sounds like the world we live in.
as an industrial maintenance tech and millwright myself, what would be a good deck to imitate if I were to modify mine? You‘d think a $4000 gravely, (which from my understanding was high end) up until I saw what grasshopper wants For their units.
I don’t even know what kind of grass I have. All I know is it’s green. Couldn’t care less. I just cut it, weed it and water it. I’ve never been one to blow a fortune to have the best lawn, I take care of it for simplicity.
I never even knew they still sold cameras.
as an industrial maintenance tech and millwright myself, what would be a good deck to imitate if I were to modify mine? You‘d think a $4000 gravely, (which from my understanding was high end) up until I saw what grasshopper wants For their units.
I don’t even know what kind of grass I have. All I know is it’s green. Couldn’t care less. I just cut it, weed it and water it. I’ve never been one to blow a fortune to have the best lawn, I take care of it for simplicity.
BEcause you took it with a phone & not a camera then probably uploaded it from the said same phone.
I never even knew they still sold cameras.
#17
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
When you look at the price of some thing, forget about the $ numbers and convert the price into what you are really using to buy it with, hours of your labour.
So as a millwright divide the mower price by your charge out rate then think what sort of job you could have done in those hours .
Dads original walk behind cost near 2 months wages , now a self propelled walk behind start from 1 days wages
Should I expect the same quality & longevity as dad got ?
No idea about modifing your deck
The physics are a lot more complicated than most would think and way beyond my pay grade
The only thing I could suggest is shifting the side blades in a little then fit longer blades so there is more overlap but the blades must then be timed so they don't hit each other
The decks that do not leave windrows have timed blades with big overlaps
On a 3 blade beck, the left & right run parallel with the front 90 deg out of phase so the blades can not strike each other
So the belt must be toothed like an engine timing belt and the pulleys the same.
So a trip to your local engine wreckers for some toothed pulleys and a double pulley on one spindle to take the V belt off the engine
Naturally that means no internal baffles unless the front blade is moved forward so by then you are making a complete new deck.
Older decks were longer front to back to allow for more overlap
Other option on 2 blade deck is to use a double V belt with the belt routed in a figure 8 so the right blade spins counter clockwise then cut an outlet in the rear of the deck
Walker have all of their decks IPL's on line so you can download & perouse them during your lunch break for some ideas
Husqvarna decks usually pull air in around the spindle then draw it up at the blade tips .
So as a millwright divide the mower price by your charge out rate then think what sort of job you could have done in those hours .
Dads original walk behind cost near 2 months wages , now a self propelled walk behind start from 1 days wages
Should I expect the same quality & longevity as dad got ?
No idea about modifing your deck
The physics are a lot more complicated than most would think and way beyond my pay grade
The only thing I could suggest is shifting the side blades in a little then fit longer blades so there is more overlap but the blades must then be timed so they don't hit each other
The decks that do not leave windrows have timed blades with big overlaps
On a 3 blade beck, the left & right run parallel with the front 90 deg out of phase so the blades can not strike each other
So the belt must be toothed like an engine timing belt and the pulleys the same.
So a trip to your local engine wreckers for some toothed pulleys and a double pulley on one spindle to take the V belt off the engine
Naturally that means no internal baffles unless the front blade is moved forward so by then you are making a complete new deck.
Older decks were longer front to back to allow for more overlap
Other option on 2 blade deck is to use a double V belt with the belt routed in a figure 8 so the right blade spins counter clockwise then cut an outlet in the rear of the deck
Walker have all of their decks IPL's on line so you can download & perouse them during your lunch break for some ideas
Husqvarna decks usually pull air in around the spindle then draw it up at the blade tips .
#18
R
Rabbit929
R
Rabbit929
good information. But here’s my area of thinking:
a regular single blade pusher typically Cuts pretty awesome. Nothing special, just a round deck and blade On the crankshaft.
a regular stamped deck seems to cut slightly better due to the rounded nature of a stamped deck.
a welded deck is stronger, a little odd in the airflow department but a little grass sticking in the corners can achieve a similar result. The reason i say “there isn’t much science to it” is just because these aren’t exactly engineered to the extent of a Tesla, Wexxar, or BluePrint automations machine, they just cut grass.
Now I’m not looking to go back into a full-blown lawn business, just figuring picking up a few lawns and do it for cheap for some elderly neighbors is all. Think of it as none profit.
as for modifying the deck, I don’t think a timing belt and interference blades would be good, from both a cost and safety standpoint. And the sheaves plus hubs for that type of setup are much larger and thicker than standard v-belt sheaves.
I was thinking more-so cut the rear of the deck to allow rearward discharge, and maybe inverting the direction of the center blade.
if I were going full commercial a $15,000 mower is a nice investment, but for regular at home use I looked at a 36” Ferris for $7,500?!?! that’s insane, especially after I put over 800 hours on a cheap no-name “white outdoor” brand stamped deck with a 24hp tehcumseh,(?) motor, mowing ditches and cutting half a foot of grass on the regular.
$4000 is already too much for what I do but what can I say, I wanted to enjoy mowing again and I use it to move trailers around the yard, pull small trees, etc.
a regular single blade pusher typically Cuts pretty awesome. Nothing special, just a round deck and blade On the crankshaft.
a regular stamped deck seems to cut slightly better due to the rounded nature of a stamped deck.
a welded deck is stronger, a little odd in the airflow department but a little grass sticking in the corners can achieve a similar result. The reason i say “there isn’t much science to it” is just because these aren’t exactly engineered to the extent of a Tesla, Wexxar, or BluePrint automations machine, they just cut grass.
Now I’m not looking to go back into a full-blown lawn business, just figuring picking up a few lawns and do it for cheap for some elderly neighbors is all. Think of it as none profit.
as for modifying the deck, I don’t think a timing belt and interference blades would be good, from both a cost and safety standpoint. And the sheaves plus hubs for that type of setup are much larger and thicker than standard v-belt sheaves.
I was thinking more-so cut the rear of the deck to allow rearward discharge, and maybe inverting the direction of the center blade.
if I were going full commercial a $15,000 mower is a nice investment, but for regular at home use I looked at a 36” Ferris for $7,500?!?! that’s insane, especially after I put over 800 hours on a cheap no-name “white outdoor” brand stamped deck with a 24hp tehcumseh,(?) motor, mowing ditches and cutting half a foot of grass on the regular.
$4000 is already too much for what I do but what can I say, I wanted to enjoy mowing again and I use it to move trailers around the yard, pull small trees, etc.
#19
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Cutting the rear out for rear discharge will only work with counter rotating blades and finding left hand cut blades is not easy
I think there was a CH series Husky ( + derratives ) a couple of JD's and a Toro that had counter rotating blade thus a left hand cut one .
And the science involved is really intensive, like what angle to set the flute at and how long and where to start it on the blades.
Getting good airflow with a 2 blade fan is not easy, just the same as a 2 blade aircraft propeller really needs a variable pitch and that is only doing on thing, pushing air back .
People expect a mower blade to lift the grass up so it can be cut then cut it at an even height then either recut in and allow it to drop to the ground or throw it out the discharge chute .
So at the same time the blade has to lift the whole blade of grass then dump the clippings that weighs at least 1/3 of the full grass blade
And you think this is simple
You have obviously never had to work with dust extractors or air pump discharge equipment
IT is immensely complicated .
Everything is dead easy to do if you are not the person doing it
Even then the same blade can give totally different cuts on different grasses
Several of my contractors will use different blades at different time of the year because the grass cuts differently .
A rotary mower is nothing more that a mechanised sythe and nota particularly good one at that ,
I think there was a CH series Husky ( + derratives ) a couple of JD's and a Toro that had counter rotating blade thus a left hand cut one .
And the science involved is really intensive, like what angle to set the flute at and how long and where to start it on the blades.
Getting good airflow with a 2 blade fan is not easy, just the same as a 2 blade aircraft propeller really needs a variable pitch and that is only doing on thing, pushing air back .
People expect a mower blade to lift the grass up so it can be cut then cut it at an even height then either recut in and allow it to drop to the ground or throw it out the discharge chute .
So at the same time the blade has to lift the whole blade of grass then dump the clippings that weighs at least 1/3 of the full grass blade
And you think this is simple
You have obviously never had to work with dust extractors or air pump discharge equipment
IT is immensely complicated .
Everything is dead easy to do if you are not the person doing it
Even then the same blade can give totally different cuts on different grasses
Several of my contractors will use different blades at different time of the year because the grass cuts differently .
A rotary mower is nothing more that a mechanised sythe and nota particularly good one at that ,
#20
R
Rabbit929
I did work with dust extraction equipment, in fact I rebuilt more that 50 of them, in an industrial application of course.
im sorry but yes, I do actually have a lot of expertise in that specific field. I don’t think it’s immensely complicated, as the dust extraction systems however are, but they work efficiently.
what I’m saying is, an engine one a frame with 3 spinning blades should be able to meet satisfactory results, without having to invest in commercial grade power-house equipment.
keep in mind a lot of us are just trying to cut the lawn. Hassle free. So if $4000 can’t do it, what the hell can?
so if a $4000 mower is absolutely incapable of what a $100 push mower can do, why are we all not running those?
in my case, 1.5 hours push mowing, or 15-20 minutes on the zero turn, but the zero turn can make a clean cut because it doesn’t have a permed deck designed for a specific blade of grass??
thats asinine. It should cut it no matter what it is. I’m not cutting a billion dollar property here, I’m chopping down a rough, never aerated lawn that is mostly grass, weeds, and clover.
im all for professionalism but this ain’t it. Just trying to focus on a reliable cut without a windrow Is all.
could I hire it out to a prI with a capable machine? No.
do most people consider the best machine for triple the price to cut grass? No.
what I’m saying is, how do you take what you got and make it work. “But a better machine“ isn’t an option for 98% of us residential guys, when the machine we have is more than capable. You can’t tell me that not a single US citizen is capable of haveing a nice lawn without careful selection of a European machine. Though I do agree, from what I saw per your recommendation, they have some nice machines. But it still only cuts grass. The science hasn’t changed, it shouldn’t be that difficult. i have a machine at work that I built and tuned that can erect 30 boxes per minute. I’m sorry if I seem salty but I can have a nice lawn unless I buy an exmark?! No wayyyyy
i appreciate all your professional info. I really do. But what do us non-commercial guys do when we just wanna cut it without buying something that costs us 1/2 our car? It’s just a lawn mower. It mows lawns. Just want to make what little time I have off valuable enough I don’t have to make 3 passes or mow ever day just to keep it up.
R
Rabbit929
And you think this is simple
You have obviously never had to work with dust extractors or air pump discharge equipment
I did work with dust extraction equipment, in fact I rebuilt more that 50 of them, in an industrial application of course.
im sorry but yes, I do actually have a lot of expertise in that specific field. I don’t think it’s immensely complicated, as the dust extraction systems however are, but they work efficiently.
what I’m saying is, an engine one a frame with 3 spinning blades should be able to meet satisfactory results, without having to invest in commercial grade power-house equipment.
keep in mind a lot of us are just trying to cut the lawn. Hassle free. So if $4000 can’t do it, what the hell can?
so if a $4000 mower is absolutely incapable of what a $100 push mower can do, why are we all not running those?
in my case, 1.5 hours push mowing, or 15-20 minutes on the zero turn, but the zero turn can make a clean cut because it doesn’t have a permed deck designed for a specific blade of grass??
thats asinine. It should cut it no matter what it is. I’m not cutting a billion dollar property here, I’m chopping down a rough, never aerated lawn that is mostly grass, weeds, and clover.
im all for professionalism but this ain’t it. Just trying to focus on a reliable cut without a windrow Is all.
could I hire it out to a prI with a capable machine? No.
do most people consider the best machine for triple the price to cut grass? No.
what I’m saying is, how do you take what you got and make it work. “But a better machine“ isn’t an option for 98% of us residential guys, when the machine we have is more than capable. You can’t tell me that not a single US citizen is capable of haveing a nice lawn without careful selection of a European machine. Though I do agree, from what I saw per your recommendation, they have some nice machines. But it still only cuts grass. The science hasn’t changed, it shouldn’t be that difficult. i have a machine at work that I built and tuned that can erect 30 boxes per minute. I’m sorry if I seem salty but I can have a nice lawn unless I buy an exmark?! No wayyyyy
i appreciate all your professional info. I really do. But what do us non-commercial guys do when we just wanna cut it without buying something that costs us 1/2 our car? It’s just a lawn mower. It mows lawns. Just want to make what little time I have off valuable enough I don’t have to make 3 passes or mow ever day just to keep it up.
#21
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
You just don't seem to get that $ 4000 is peanuts when it comes to ride on mowers
The good ones start at $10,000 and go up to $ 30,000
And not every mower deck combination will cut every type of grass
It is very difficult to make decks that do work properly on every type of grass and physically impossible to make a deck that will cut perfectly as a bagging, throwing & mulchjing deck.
Any by the way, a lot of push mowers leave stragglers behind as well although this is down the reduction in blade tip speeds particularly on the bigger 20" o 24" decks
Profit margins are very low at the bottom end so they are not going to spend $ 500,000 designing a perfect deck
If you don't like it then that is just tough luck.
You got the wrong mower for your situation .
And if you can not see that the air flow charactersitics under a 2 or 3 blade deck will be vastly different to the air flow under a single blade deck then there is nothing I can do to rectify that.
The days of making quality products for peanuts is gone, not that it ever existed .
I am actually sorry that your mower has not lived up to your expectations but if you had of asked here first they you would have got an honest appraisal.
When faced with the alternatives of spending $ 2,000,000 on dvertising to convince you that a particular mower is perfect ans spending the same $ 2,000,000 in reserach & design, well the advertising wins out every time .
That is the nature of a capitalist market with little consumer protection and a market that can not make an informed decision because the true facts are never revealed to them.
Mass market mowers are made to make profits for shareholders not to cut every bodies grass perfectly.
If you want top quality then you have to pay top dollar it is as simple as that .
The good ones start at $10,000 and go up to $ 30,000
And not every mower deck combination will cut every type of grass
It is very difficult to make decks that do work properly on every type of grass and physically impossible to make a deck that will cut perfectly as a bagging, throwing & mulchjing deck.
Any by the way, a lot of push mowers leave stragglers behind as well although this is down the reduction in blade tip speeds particularly on the bigger 20" o 24" decks
Profit margins are very low at the bottom end so they are not going to spend $ 500,000 designing a perfect deck
If you don't like it then that is just tough luck.
You got the wrong mower for your situation .
And if you can not see that the air flow charactersitics under a 2 or 3 blade deck will be vastly different to the air flow under a single blade deck then there is nothing I can do to rectify that.
The days of making quality products for peanuts is gone, not that it ever existed .
I am actually sorry that your mower has not lived up to your expectations but if you had of asked here first they you would have got an honest appraisal.
When faced with the alternatives of spending $ 2,000,000 on dvertising to convince you that a particular mower is perfect ans spending the same $ 2,000,000 in reserach & design, well the advertising wins out every time .
That is the nature of a capitalist market with little consumer protection and a market that can not make an informed decision because the true facts are never revealed to them.
Mass market mowers are made to make profits for shareholders not to cut every bodies grass perfectly.
If you want top quality then you have to pay top dollar it is as simple as that .
#22
M
MParr
M
MParr
I’ll say this one more time. With a Gravely or Ariens 42” deck, you do not have many blade choices.Why? Because, most 42” mowers require 2 blades. Ariens/Gravely are one of very few companies that use 3 blades on their 42” mowers.
#23
M
mmoffitt
M
mmoffitt
Rocket Science...cut and recut...repeat again if necessary...and if all else fails have another beer
#24
R
Rabbit929
i found the factory mulching blades are just junk. Not enough lift to cut. The mulch kit with standard blades does good. Haven’t tried it in heavy brush yet but not too worried.
theres what, 8 billion people in the world now?
and every last one of them needs to spend $20,000 on a lawnmower or else it’s junk?
i didnt buy the gravely because it was advertised heavily, I bought it because my Ariens RapidTrack snowblower is a beast of a unit and I like a lot of the Arians products, but the dealer only had a gravely in a 42”. Still a better unit than my white outdoor, but I had bigger lawns then and didn’t bother with mulching.
we Are not reinventing the wheel here lol. Can calm down with that ”spend a mil-or bust” mentality. I can fabricate blades, just thought someone here might have a few tips and tricks rather than just buy a mower that costs more than my truck. that’s just flat out dumb.
R
Rabbit929
you just don’t seem to get I never purchased a commercial golf-grade mower, not need to. All I asked was how to make the deck work without needing the side discharge. that is all.You just don't seem to get that $ 4000 is peanuts when it comes to ride on mowers
i found the factory mulching blades are just junk. Not enough lift to cut. The mulch kit with standard blades does good. Haven’t tried it in heavy brush yet but not too worried.
theres what, 8 billion people in the world now?
and every last one of them needs to spend $20,000 on a lawnmower or else it’s junk?
i didnt buy the gravely because it was advertised heavily, I bought it because my Ariens RapidTrack snowblower is a beast of a unit and I like a lot of the Arians products, but the dealer only had a gravely in a 42”. Still a better unit than my white outdoor, but I had bigger lawns then and didn’t bother with mulching.
we Are not reinventing the wheel here lol. Can calm down with that ”spend a mil-or bust” mentality. I can fabricate blades, just thought someone here might have a few tips and tricks rather than just buy a mower that costs more than my truck. that’s just flat out dumb.
#25
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
SO you bought by brand name & reputation of a different product rather than properly researching your purchase and then found out what you bought was not the right mower for you then blame the mower company .
In this case then all I can say is have fun playing around making your own blades and fixing the problem that Gravely either can not or will not fix
When you come across the perfect blade then patient it and sell the design to Oregon and you will make enough money to buy a $ 20,000 mower plus a new truck .
The foundation of a capitalist demand economy is the market ( that is you ) is fully informed so they can make an informed decision about what level of perfection they are willing to pay for .
IT happens in Europe but not in the USA because of advertising & very weak consumer protection.
It happens down here because of strong consumer protection although the US imported mowers take a lot of effort to get the facts you need but you can get them .
You were told what is needed to get a perfect cut in so far as deck design but do not want to do that .
So have fun in your shed
I like messing around with things too which is why I fix mowers for a living
In this case then all I can say is have fun playing around making your own blades and fixing the problem that Gravely either can not or will not fix
When you come across the perfect blade then patient it and sell the design to Oregon and you will make enough money to buy a $ 20,000 mower plus a new truck .
The foundation of a capitalist demand economy is the market ( that is you ) is fully informed so they can make an informed decision about what level of perfection they are willing to pay for .
IT happens in Europe but not in the USA because of advertising & very weak consumer protection.
It happens down here because of strong consumer protection although the US imported mowers take a lot of effort to get the facts you need but you can get them .
You were told what is needed to get a perfect cut in so far as deck design but do not want to do that .
So have fun in your shed
I like messing around with things too which is why I fix mowers for a living
#26
R
Rabbit929
I don’t blame the mower company, and I don’t think I got the wrong mower. i bought a mower. It mows.
cuts decent enough for me with factory blades and the mulch kit, solved my problem as I stated in a previous post. Idk man i just dropped in for some advice thinking I’d get better than “you bought the wrong thing, go back and buy a $20,000 mower, even though the $800 craftsman lt1000 everyone has does just fine.
I think your feeling a deeper rooted problem blaming it all on capitalism, when capitalism is the reason you have a job in the first place. i fix mowers for fun. Golf carts, skid steers, motorcycles, anything with and without an engine. To each his own bud but if you want to buy a $20k mower to cut a 1/4 acre lot is none sense.
you mentioned you fix mowers for a living, I take it you sell these units too? Makes sense.
R
Rabbit929
SO you bought by brand name & reputation of a different product rather than properly researching your purchase and then found out what you bought was not the right mower for you then blame the mower company .
In this case then all I can say is have fun playing around making your own blades and fixing the problem that Gravely either can not or will not fix
When you come across the perfect blade then patient it and sell the design to Oregon and you will make enough money to buy a $ 20,000 mower plus a new truck .
The foundation of a capitalist demand economy is the market ( that is you ) is fully informed so they can make an informed decision about what level of perfection they are willing to pay for .
IT happens in Europe but not in the USA because of advertising & very weak consumer protection.
It happens down here because of strong consumer protection although the US imported mowers take a lot of effort to get the facts you need but you can get them .
You were told what is needed to get a perfect cut in so far as deck design but do not want to do that .
So have fun in your shed
I like messing around with things too which is why I fix mowers for a living
I don’t blame the mower company, and I don’t think I got the wrong mower. i bought a mower. It mows.
cuts decent enough for me with factory blades and the mulch kit, solved my problem as I stated in a previous post. Idk man i just dropped in for some advice thinking I’d get better than “you bought the wrong thing, go back and buy a $20,000 mower, even though the $800 craftsman lt1000 everyone has does just fine.
I think your feeling a deeper rooted problem blaming it all on capitalism, when capitalism is the reason you have a job in the first place. i fix mowers for fun. Golf carts, skid steers, motorcycles, anything with and without an engine. To each his own bud but if you want to buy a $20k mower to cut a 1/4 acre lot is none sense.
you mentioned you fix mowers for a living, I take it you sell these units too? Makes sense.
#27
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
There is nothing wrong with Capitalism per say
There is nothing wrong with Socialism per say
Even communisum has good points
And dictatorships can also work well
Provided all of them are moderated and regulated
The big problem with capitalism as practiced in the USA is from President Regan on each successive president has diminished the regulation role to the point that US companies can run rampant as the only customer protection now days comes from the courts via greedy lawyers.
If we did not have compulsory voting and a Senate that is only elected 1/2 at a time here then we would have been in lock step with the USA but fortunately this did not happen.
The USA passed the very first anti monopoly laws in the world and your economy flourished because of it but for the past several decades it has become stagnant relying on exploiting 3rd world countries to prop it up and has allowed big players like MTD & AYP to gobble up all of the smaller ones particulalry by selling mowers below cost to deprive them market share .
If I bay a mower in Europe it has a durability index attached to it so I know that the expected service life of the mower is 1 year through to 25 years and in most cases there will be durability indexes for each of the major parts , engine & transmission as well .
For US made products the only pointer to the durability is the length of the warranty.
For capitalism to work, at each production level there has to be sufficient players in the market to prevent any single one becoming dominant and the market . ie YOU have to be given access to all the information needed to be able to make an informed decision.
And it is the job of government, who make the rules to ensure this happens .
The only place this happens and is enforced is on the stock market which shows what the governments are really interested in,,, MONEY and nothing else.
And I work for myself and have done so since 1982 so I do believe in the value of small business .
There is nothing wrong with Socialism per say
Even communisum has good points
And dictatorships can also work well
Provided all of them are moderated and regulated
The big problem with capitalism as practiced in the USA is from President Regan on each successive president has diminished the regulation role to the point that US companies can run rampant as the only customer protection now days comes from the courts via greedy lawyers.
If we did not have compulsory voting and a Senate that is only elected 1/2 at a time here then we would have been in lock step with the USA but fortunately this did not happen.
The USA passed the very first anti monopoly laws in the world and your economy flourished because of it but for the past several decades it has become stagnant relying on exploiting 3rd world countries to prop it up and has allowed big players like MTD & AYP to gobble up all of the smaller ones particulalry by selling mowers below cost to deprive them market share .
If I bay a mower in Europe it has a durability index attached to it so I know that the expected service life of the mower is 1 year through to 25 years and in most cases there will be durability indexes for each of the major parts , engine & transmission as well .
For US made products the only pointer to the durability is the length of the warranty.
For capitalism to work, at each production level there has to be sufficient players in the market to prevent any single one becoming dominant and the market . ie YOU have to be given access to all the information needed to be able to make an informed decision.
And it is the job of government, who make the rules to ensure this happens .
The only place this happens and is enforced is on the stock market which shows what the governments are really interested in,,, MONEY and nothing else.
And I work for myself and have done so since 1982 so I do believe in the value of small business .
#28
R
Rabbit929
R
Rabbit929
that’s great, but im not interested in getting too political because as an American, I’m not happy with the state of America in its current state. As are many Americans. Do we think europe is better? No, they got the good parts from us.
the oldest democracy in history was in Rome, at 110 years or so. America has surpassed 240 years. We are due for a collapse. Most of us know it. But still, I could go on for years about that kind of stuff but I’m just talking lawn mowers. Simply cutting grass with a spinning metal blade. Nothing more.
I would be interested in talking about the state of the world elsewhere but here I just asked what was the best way to make a decent cut with a lawn mower.
as for the rest of the stuff, Nancy pelosi, speaker of the house is now one of the most successful stock traders in the world.
we know they are full of shit and everything about them is bullshit, just miss the days when people would assassinate people like this but again, its doomed to fail. We all know this and I personally have walked away from it and instead just stock up on food to cope With it when it really does officially hit the dirt.
but until then, I just hope to cut the grass is all.
the oldest democracy in history was in Rome, at 110 years or so. America has surpassed 240 years. We are due for a collapse. Most of us know it. But still, I could go on for years about that kind of stuff but I’m just talking lawn mowers. Simply cutting grass with a spinning metal blade. Nothing more.
I would be interested in talking about the state of the world elsewhere but here I just asked what was the best way to make a decent cut with a lawn mower.
as for the rest of the stuff, Nancy pelosi, speaker of the house is now one of the most successful stock traders in the world.
we know they are full of shit and everything about them is bullshit, just miss the days when people would assassinate people like this but again, its doomed to fail. We all know this and I personally have walked away from it and instead just stock up on food to cope With it when it really does officially hit the dirt.
but until then, I just hope to cut the grass is all.
#29
bkeller500
bkeller500
Focus on the problem.........lifting the grass.......clipping the grass........keeping the grass elevated......recutting the clipped grass........and dropping the recut grass uniformly across the cut area. The more grass that is introduced to the cutting blade area...the more that can fail due to the restricted air flow...........the only option is to reduce the amount of grass in the deck at one time in order to accomplish the mulching task. A high lift blade will likely introduce more lift and then keep the cut grass in suspension for recutting.....but will the recut grass be able to exit the deck as those high lift blades rotate at full rpm? If you are going to mulch, you are going to have to cut less off each time and cut more often. Take a 4" piece of string or sewing thread and toss it in the air......then take the sharpest knife you have and try to wack the string or thread and recut it. Now try to do that with thousands of strings whirling in a circular pattern at high speed. If your grass is to be cut at no more than 1/3 it's length.....assume your grass is 6" long and you cut it to 4" ......now you have thousands of 2" clippings you want to recut......Even if you could cut them in 1/2 to 1" clippings..........will the 1" clippings decompose more quickly than 2" clippings? In theory mulching is a great idea....in reality it does not work well. Just my opinion.