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Yard Machine, 5 H.P., 22" Snow Blower
#1
R
ranckie
R
ranckie
Hello,
My name is Ranckie and I'm new to this forum. I would appreciate help with a question I have about a 5 H.P. Tecumseh snowblower engine on a 2002, 22" Yard Machine snowblower. The engine model # is HSSK50, 67404S, and the engine family is – YTPXS, 1951BF. When I tip the machine up to work on the undercarriage and leave it there for several minutes, I see oil starting to slowly run out onto the impeller shroud like it's coming from under the drive belt cover, (and from the engine I'm sure). I suspect that the only place it could be leaking from is the crankshaft oil seal on the PTO side of the sump, in other words, a bad oil seal in the sump cover. My question is, does that engine have a regular ball bearing to support the crankshaft or does it use a bronze or aluminum bushing in the sump cover. I have looked at parts diagrams several times and it appears that my engine has a ball bearing but I can't be sure. Getting a replacement bearing should be easy enough at any power transmission store if I decide to go that route. Changing a seal should be a relatively easy task if that's all it needs but if that motor uses a bushing as opposed to a bearing and the bushing is worn, changing the seal will do little good since it will just start leaking again in a short amount of time. I can buy a used sump cover on eBay if that is what I need, and hopefully it would have a good bushing, that is unless I can buy just a bushing for mine if that's what's used to support my crankshaft inside the sump cover. The engine runs great right now and starts in minus10 degree weather with one pull of the cord, (I put a new carb on it). I'm doing this as a fun project on a small snowblower I picked up that my wife wants to use to help me just for the excercise when it snows, (she wanted something smaller since I use a Cub Cadet 26" machine for my self). Any help would be very much appreciated. Thanks.
My name is Ranckie and I'm new to this forum. I would appreciate help with a question I have about a 5 H.P. Tecumseh snowblower engine on a 2002, 22" Yard Machine snowblower. The engine model # is HSSK50, 67404S, and the engine family is – YTPXS, 1951BF. When I tip the machine up to work on the undercarriage and leave it there for several minutes, I see oil starting to slowly run out onto the impeller shroud like it's coming from under the drive belt cover, (and from the engine I'm sure). I suspect that the only place it could be leaking from is the crankshaft oil seal on the PTO side of the sump, in other words, a bad oil seal in the sump cover. My question is, does that engine have a regular ball bearing to support the crankshaft or does it use a bronze or aluminum bushing in the sump cover. I have looked at parts diagrams several times and it appears that my engine has a ball bearing but I can't be sure. Getting a replacement bearing should be easy enough at any power transmission store if I decide to go that route. Changing a seal should be a relatively easy task if that's all it needs but if that motor uses a bushing as opposed to a bearing and the bushing is worn, changing the seal will do little good since it will just start leaking again in a short amount of time. I can buy a used sump cover on eBay if that is what I need, and hopefully it would have a good bushing, that is unless I can buy just a bushing for mine if that's what's used to support my crankshaft inside the sump cover. The engine runs great right now and starts in minus10 degree weather with one pull of the cord, (I put a new carb on it). I'm doing this as a fun project on a small snowblower I picked up that my wife wants to use to help me just for the excercise when it snows, (she wanted something smaller since I use a Cub Cadet 26" machine for my self). Any help would be very much appreciated. Thanks.
#2
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
That engine uses a ball bearing, so I would recommend changing the crankshaft seal only. Being 20+ years old it has probably dried out and cracked. I call those engine “MULES” because if you treat them right with a sugar cube ever so often, they will serve you for a long time.
#3
R
ranckie
R
ranckie
Thank you Rivets for that reply. I suspected from the drawings I saw that it used a ball bearing but wasn't sure and I'll bet your correct about the seal being dried and cracked so I'll see if I can find the correct seal for that engine and change it out as soon as the weather gets warmer; (I live in Maine and we just had the coldest two days this area has seen in nearly 50 years, or minus 21 degrees last night; BRRR). It was also nice to hear you say that those engines are tough if shown a littlee bit of TLC. I'll head off to see if I can find the correct seal. Thank you again for your input, it is very much appreciated.That engine uses a ball bearing, so I would recommend changing the crankshaft seal only. Being 20+ years old it has probably dried out and cracked. I call those engine “MULES” because if you treat them right with a sugar cube ever so often, they will serve you for a long time.
#4
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Tecumseh part #27897, should run about $5.00. Before you remove the old seal make sure that the crankshaft is sand shiny and smooth. When installing new seal wrap the shaft with Clingwrap to prevent cutting it while you slide it in place.
#5
N
nbpt100
N
nbpt100
good work. One common problem with those engines as they age is the exhause valve lash gets too tight and if you are not on top of it it will start to loose power and it may even damage the valve guide if you run too long like that. So inspect the valve lash and as it gets to the bottom of the spec remove the valve and grind a bit off the stem. A glowing red muffler at night is a clue that the valve lash maybe out of spec. Good luck to you and stay warm.
#6
R
ranckie
R
ranckie
Thank you "nbpt100" for that bit of knowledge and rest assured that I will keep my eye open for that. As for the really low temperatures we had here in Maine, thankfully it only lasted for two days and now on Sunday, we are back in the mid 30's and for us that is nice and warm. Thanks again.good work. One common problem with those engines as they age is the exhause valve lash gets too tight and if you are not on top of it it will start to loose power and it may even damage the valve guide if you run too long like that. So inspect the valve lash and as it gets to the bottom of the spec remove the valve and grind a bit off the stem. A glowing red muffler at night is a clue that the valve lash maybe out of spec. Good luck to you and stay warm.
#7
R
ranckie
R
ranckie
Thank you again Rivets for the seal part number, and the Clingwrap tip. I may decide to remove the sump cover to change the seal so I can polish the seal journal on the ctankshaft correctly, using crocus cloth or 220 grit wet sandpaper. If I do that, might you happen to have the torque value for the sump bolts. I've looked around the net but can't seem to find that information.Tecumseh part #27897, should run about $5.00. Before you remove the old seal make sure that the crankshaft is sand shiny and smooth. When installing new seal wrap the shaft with Clingwrap to prevent cutting it while you slide it in place.
#8
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Sorry, but I don’t torque sump bolts. I just make sure I use a new gasket and double check to make sure that are tight. Even if you are removing the sump, I would make sure I’ve got most of the corrosion off the crankshaft for easy removal.
#9
R
ranckie
R
ranckie
No problem Rivets, I don't have to torque the sump bolts if those more experienced don't think it's necessary, and I would alternate the tightening sequence as any good tech would do. I did order a new gasket along with the seal and would have changed that for sure. Removing the sump cover to change the seal will be a pain in the butt, but I don't see how anyone can effectively do a good job of polishing the seal journal with the sump cover in place because the area that needs to polished is recessed. If I do remove it, and it looks like I'll have to, I would definitly polish the outer journals of the crankshaft before removing the cover since that would be easy to do because everything is exposed. Once again, thank you for all of your input.Sorry, but I don’t torque sump bolts. I just make sure I use a new gasket and double check to make sure that are tight. Even if you are removing the sump, I would make sure I’ve got most of the corrosion off the crankshaft for easy removal.
#10
R
rustycat
R
rustycat
Those snow King engines do not have roller bearings for the crankshaft just the aluminum case for the bearing. When you tip it like you did the oil can come out the breather on the side of the crankcase just below the intake and exhaust port's. For oil to leak out the crankshaft journal it would have too be totally worn out and have allot of play in the shaft and most likely wouldn't run correctly. On the breather port with be a rubber hose that should point downwards. Make sure you only have 19 to 20oz of 5w30 oil in the 5hp engine.Hello,
My name is Ranckie and I'm new to this forum. I would appreciate help with a question I have about a 5 H.P. Tecumseh snowblower engine on a 2002, 22" Yard Machine snowblower. The engine model # is HSSK50, 67404S, and the engine family is – YTPXS, 1951BF. When I tip the machine up to work on the undercarriage and leave it there for several minutes, I see oil starting to slowly run out onto the impeller shroud like it's coming from under the drive belt cover, (and from the engine I'm sure). I suspect that the only place it could be leaking from is the crankshaft oil seal on the PTO side of the sump, in other words, a bad oil seal in the sump cover. My question is, does that engine have a regular ball bearing to support the crankshaft or does it use a bronze or aluminum bushing in the sump cover. I have looked at parts diagrams several times and it appears that my engine has a ball bearing but I can't be sure. Getting a replacement bearing should be easy enough at any power transmission store if I decide to go that route. Changing a seal should be a relatively easy task if that's all it needs but if that motor uses a bushing as opposed to a bearing and the bushing is worn, changing the seal will do little good since it will just start leaking again in a short amount of time. I can buy a used sump cover on eBay if that is what I need, and hopefully it would have a good bushing, that is unless I can buy just a bushing for mine if that's what's used to support my crankshaft inside the sump cover. The engine runs great right now and starts in minus10 degree weather with one pull of the cord, (I put a new carb on it). I'm doing this as a fun project on a small snowblower I picked up that my wife wants to use to help me just for the excercise when it snows, (she wanted something smaller since I use a Cub Cadet 26" machine for my self). Any help would be very much appreciated. Thanks.
#11
R
ranckie
R
ranckie
Those snow King engines do not have roller bearings for the crankshaft just the aluminum case for the bearing. When you tip it like you did the oil can come out the breather on the side of the crankcase just below the intake and exhaust port's. For oil to leak out the crankshaft journal it would have too be totally worn out and have allot of play in the shaft and most likely wouldn't run correctly. On the breather port with be a rubber hose that should point downwards. Make sure you only have 19 to 20oz of 5w30 oil in the 5hp engine.
#12
R
ranckie
R
ranckie
Thank you Rustycat for letting me know that but now I'm obviously confused. Others have stated that my engine contains a ball bearing but it looks like your response might be the correct one, and it might explain why the engine diagram I found on line for my engine shows a ball bearing in the picture, (shown as P/N 23) but does not list that bearing part number in the parts listing as you'll see in the attached pictures. The pictures I've attached will shed some light on my reply. The 1st picture shows the data plate on my engine which clearly shows that my engine is a model HSSK50, 67404S. The 2nd picture shows the parts diagram, and the 3rd picture shows the parts list that goes with that diagram. I found all of that online for my engine and while the parts picture clearly shows the model number in the upper left corner that it's the correct one for my engine and shows a bearing, listed as Part No. 23, you'll also notice that in the 3rd picture, (the parts list), that there is no number 23 listed which I'm guessing could be their way of saying that that particular engine does not contain a ball bearing. Now I wish there were a third way of me settling that question for sure, though I'm leaning on agreeing with your answer because of the absense of a part number 23 in the parts listing. All I have to do to see if there is wear in the bearing area of the sump cover is to release the tension on the belts and see if the crankshaft moves up and down freely. To settle the question of the oil leak, I'll remove the belt cover and tip the blower up again and watch to see where the oil is leaking from which hopefuly should be obvious. I've already looked into the correct oil capacity and it's 21 oz., (2.625 cups) of 5W-30. Thanks again for your input.
Attachments
#13
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Most Tecumseh engines which had a bearing on the crankshaft used Tecumseh part number 31793
#14
R
ranckie
R
ranckie
So I'm sure you can understand my confusion which begs the question to you, does my engine have a ball bearing or does it use the sump cover as a bearing as the other gentleman suggests. Your response here simply says that those engines that DID use a bearing used P/N 31793, but it does not say if my engine is one that used a bearing.Most Tecumseh engines which had a bearing on the crankshaft used Tecumseh part number 31793
#15
R
rustycat
R
rustycat
Take your engine model number and look up the parts illustration. I've took apart many Tecumseh 4 stroke engines and none of them had roller bearings. Two stroke engines use roller bearings as the gas oil mixture has to get into the bearings for lubrication. 4 strokes have crankshaft on aluminum housing. The oil is not leaking from the crankshaft journal but through the oil breather on the side of the block just below the intake exhaust port's. Find that and then tip it over and watch where the oil comes from.So I'm sure you can understand my confusion which begs the question to you, does my engine have a ball bearing or does it use the sump cover as a bearing as the other gentleman suggests. Your response here simply says that those engines that DID use a bearing used P/N 31793, but it does not say if my engine is one that used a bearing.
#16
R
ranckie
R
ranckie
Rustycat, I believe you regarding not having a ball bearing; my comment above was intended for Rivets, only because he is the one who stated that the engine had a ball bearing, and I want to assure everyone that I mean no disrespect to any and all that forward me information regarding this engine . I did look at the pictoral parts diagram for my engine but got a bit confused when the diagram did show a ball bearing (#23), but the parts list did not show that p/n (# 23), (see my 3 pictures above). Your answer re: oil for the 2 cycle engins makes sense as well since there is no oil sump to lubricate ball bearings. Finally, I also believe you when you state that my oil leak is coming from the crankcase breather area. Is there an easy solution for preventing the oil from leaking out from that breather when servicing the area underneath, like when working on the friction disc? My guess is to simply plug the end of the tube where it connects to the cover. Thank you for your input, it is appreciated.Take your engine model number and look up the parts illustration. I've took apart many Tecumseh 4 stroke engines and none of them had roller bearings. Two stroke engines use roller bearings as the gas oil mixture has to get into the bearings for lubrication. 4 strokes have crankshaft on aluminum housing. The oil is not leaking from the crankshaft journal but through the oil breather on the side of the block just below the intake exhaust port's. Find that and then tip it over and watch where the oil comes from.
#17
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rustycat
R
rustycat
How about just draining the oil out of the engine when you tip it on its side. You would turn your beer can upside down while it's full you would empty it first. (You can't waist beer)Rustycat, I believe you regarding not having a ball bearing; my comment above was intended for Rivets, only because he is the one who stated that the engine had a ball bearing, and I want to assure everyone that I mean no disrespect to any and all that forward me information regarding this engine . I did look at the pictoral parts diagram for my engine but got a bit confused when the diagram did show a ball bearing (#23), but the parts list did not show that p/n (# 23), (see my 3 pictures above). Your answer re: oil for the 2 cycle engins makes sense as well since there is no oil sump to lubricate ball bearings. Finally, I also believe you when you state that my oil leak is coming from the crankcase breather area. Is there an easy solution for preventing the oil from leaking out from that breather when servicing the area underneath, like when working on the friction disc? My guess is to simply plug the end of the tube where it connects to the cover. Thank you for your input, it is appreciated.
#18
R
ranckie
R
ranckie
Ha. Even better, I'll just drink the beer while the oil is draining out of the sump. Yeah, since working underneath the machine is not an everyday thing, an oil change evry now and then would do it fine. But, plugging the breather tube is surely quicker and whatever oil ends up behind the breather cover will eventually just drain back into the sump right?How about just draining the oil out of the engine when you tip it on its side. You would turn your beer can upside down while it's full you would empty it first. (You can't waist beer)
#19
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
As you stated the illustration shows a bearing, but the parts list doesn’t. I know on many of the older Tecumseh engines which were used on snowblowers did use a ball bearing, but because I no longer have access to the paper parts drawings (yes I’m that old) I can’t tell you if your engine absolutely has one. The only way to find out is to pull the sump cover and find out. If you don’t want to do that, you’ll never find out unless you can find someone who still has the Tecumseh parts books. One assumption you are making, after rereading your first post, is that if your engine uses a bushing the changing will not solve your problem. As I’ve changed PTO seals on many of these engines, I’ve found that most of the seals have deteriorated to the point where they no longer do there job. Being that your engine is 20+ years old I would just replace the seal and give this MULE a longer life.
#20
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rustycat
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rustycat
It doesn't leak while running so don't mess with it. It only leaks when he tipped it on it side so the oil it coming from some place else. Tecumseh 4 stroke engines never had roller bearings on the crankshaft just the aluminum case for the bearing. Two stroke engines use roller bearings.As you stated the illustration shows a bearing, but the parts list doesn’t. I know on many of the older Tecumseh engines which were used on snowblowers did use a ball bearing, but because I no longer have access to the paper parts drawings (yes I’m that old) I can’t tell you if your engine absolutely has one. The only way to find out is to pull the sump cover and find out. If you don’t want to do that, you’ll never find out unless you can find someone who still has the Tecumseh parts books. One assumption you are making, after rereading your first post, is that if your engine uses a bushing the changing will not solve your problem. As I’ve changed PTO seals on many of these engines, I’ve found that most of the seals have deteriorated to the point where they no longer do there job. Being that your engine is 20+ years old I would just replace the seal and give this MULE a longer life.