Export thread

Good Morning, Has anyone ever had this problem before. XT2 Kohler engine 21 horse. We go out to mow and after about 15 minutes it surges and acts like it is running out of fuel. I have taken it to our cub cadet dealer where I have always taken it. They of course didn't believe me. Couldn't get it to duplicate. So they pulled the carb, cleaned it and put on a new fuel filter. It actually runs worse. Any ideas of what to fix now???Thanks

Which Kohler 21 hp engine do you have. Model and spec numbers would be most helpful.

Had that with a push mower, but it was in 5-10 minutes. Gas cap needed a small hole drilled in it.



Metal piece on the other side was missing.



Super easy test: open the gas cap when it starts doing it next time. If it clears, you've got a vacuum in the tank.

When it pays up, remove the fuel cap, pull the fuel line off as close to the tank as you can ( must be after the pump because it has a one way valve in it ) then blow as hard as you can down the fuel line.
Problem goes away = debris in the fuel tank.
Difficult for a workshop to diagnose because they have to run the mower, blades on for the same 1/2 hour to replicate your situation.

ILENGINE said:

Which Kohler 21 hp engine do you have. Model and spec numbers would be most helpful.

Click to expand...

Turns out it is a Kohler 22hp 13APA1CS010 is this the spec number? I got it from the receipt. If not I will have to go to the mower to find it. Thanks for your time.

This may be relative to your issue with the stalling It is a link to the Kohler SB-348 service bulletin relating to stalling on your series of engine.

The saga continues. We have bought a new gas cap. We are now on our third Cub Cadet dealer. Still have the same problems and a few new ones. After 10 minutes mowing the mower acts like it is running out of fuel, and surges from time to time. Dealer one told us that they could not get it to act up. Dealer 2 told us it was a clogged fuel filter and the air filter was dirty. So both of them were replaced. We still have the same problem. So dealer 3 (the one we bought it from) took it in also kept it for 2 and a half weeks. Came back with it had a bad coil pack. So they replaced it. Not both just the bad one. And of course it still does the same thing. 10 minutes and it is cutting out and not running well. Dealer 2 put a new deck belt on, since the old one was stretched. Well after 5 hours the new belt Part number 954-05021 Which according to cub cadet is the right belt. Is too stretched out to work. So dealer 3 is telling me number 2 put on the wrong belt. Dealer 3 has the mower back again, they are trying to figure out why the belt doesn't tighten up when the pto is engaged (manual). So I contacted cub cadet today. With them you can either chat online or they give you a phone number to the engine manufacturer. By the way Kohler's number is 1-800-800-7310. Kohler, or course grinded me for not taking it to my local dealer. Then said they would reach out to the dealer that has the mower now. All cub cadet chat could do was confirm that dealer #2 did put on the right belt. Now this is costing me about $350.00 per visit. I am getting tired quick. the mower has 378 hours on it. Any suggestions?

Now this is costing me about $350.00 per visit. I am getting tired quick. the mower has 378 hours on it. Any suggestions?
Trade it in on a John Deere or Husqvarna. Buy from a servicing dealer. When out of pocket expenditures start piling up as you are describing, it’s time to unload it.

This site gets around 200 posts a day & I answer about 30 or so of them.
There are about 20 or so techs who regularly answer questions and another 20 who just answer specific model or equipment type question.
Then a few hundred who are owners who answer a couple of posts a year from personal experience.
Some original posters come for sympathy, some come for arguemnts some come to vent & others come to seek help.
Of those who seek help about 1/3 will post back that the problem has been solved and about 2/3 of those will identify what the final problem was which provides future readers with a valuable asset..
We are a fairly patient lot & understand some poster are technically challenged working out which end of a screwdriver to hold and many posts go for dozens of pages while we walk people through their ordeal by mower.
However because there are a lot of time wasters who post here I for one have a fairly firm rule
If I make a suggestion and the poster does not bother to act on it then I don't waste my time with them as there are others who genuinely need and are willing to accept the help on offer .
Back on Sept 14 2020 ( that is 10 months ago ) in post # 4 I made a suggestion that would have identified fuel line obstruction by floating debris.
Same day in post # 3 Joe covered vacuum locking
Next day in post # 6 Illengine linked to a known problem with these engines

There are other diagnostic proceedures which are quite cheap that we would have gone through with you had you done us the courtsey of trying what was suggested then responding.
However not a word for near a year apart from a whinge that you have spent a fortune & still have the original problem .
So good luck with you continued dealer maserka.
You had your chance with me and you blew it

MParr said:

Now this is costing me about $350.00 per visit. I am getting tired quick. the mower has 378 hours on it. Any suggestions?
Trade it in on a John Deere or Husqvarna. Buy from a servicing dealer. When out of pocket expenditures start piling up as you are describing, it’s time to unload it.

Click to expand...

Is this a 2 owner mower now? Someone cut in line?

slomo

MParr said:

When out of pocket expenditures start piling up as you are describing, it’s time to unload it.

Click to expand...

And of course disclose everything wrong with the mower prior to selling. Be a stand up person when you sell something.

slomo

Could be

ignition coil going bad
engine over heating.
fuel pump going out if you have one
dirty fuel tank

Have you ever pulled the metal engine shroud and cleaned the top of the block and cooling fins? This is a yearly maintenance item in ALL engine manuals. Neglect this and you are looking at engine damage. I know, what fins??

This “saga” has been going on for ten months. Several people have tried to help with solutions. There are service bulletins that have been referenced. It’s evidently out of warranty. You have taken it to three different places and gotten no results.We don’t know if this mower was purchased new. We don’t know if substandard repairs or modifications have been made to the mower. Kohler makes good engines. If they didn’t, they wouldn’t be around. I had a Troybilt (MTD) 50” ZTR. It had a 24hp Kohler Courage engine on it. It had just over 1,000 hours on it when I traded it. It still ran strong and mowed 3 acres every week.

Bought it brand new. And yes I tried all the prior suggestions from last year. I can't get any of the dealers to do the vent bypass as mentioned in service bulletin #378. They just told me they checked that, and it was fine. As if I was a little old lady complaining about a speck on the glass. What do you think it is worth. John Deere already told me they wouldn't give anything for it. (I didn't tell them it didn't run right.)

slomo said:

Could be

ignition coil going bad
engine over heating.pan
fuel pump going out if you have one
dirty fuel tank

Have you ever pulled the metal engine shroud and cleaned the top of the block and cooling fins? This is a yearly maintenance item in ALL engine manuals. Neglect this and you are looking at engine damage.

Click to expand...

Yes, they replaced one coil pack, not both. I told them to put the other one on. Fuel tank is clean. I am suspicioning collapsed fuel lines. I think it does have a fuel pump. The first dealer did a pressure test on it. What bothers me the most is that if you have a car with this type of problem, the dealer can fix it within a day or two. Here we take the mower in get it back in about 3 weeks, and it is still not fixed. We mow about 5 months out of the year. When you take 3 weeks out of each month, well that doesn't leave much time for mowing. I now know why commercial mower companies haul 3 mowers with them. Thanks for your reply.

6620 said:

I am suspicioning collapsed fuel lines

Click to expand...

Yup replace if they don't look like a new hose. They collapse inside and let tiny pieces of hose and grunge go straight to the carburetor.

slomo

We now know it’s a Kohler KT725-3013.
The fuel pump bolts on to the engine.

6620 said:

The saga continues. We have bought a new gas cap. We are now on our third Cub Cadet dealer. Still have the same problems and a few new ones. After 10 minutes mowing the mower acts like it is running out of fuel, and surges from time to time. Dealer one told us that they could not get it to act up. Dealer 2 told us it was a clogged fuel filter and the air filter was dirty. So both of them were replaced. We still have the same problem. So dealer 3 (the one we bought it from) took it in also kept it for 2 and a half weeks. Came back with it had a bad coil pack. So they replaced it. Not both just the bad one. And of course it still does the same thing. 10 minutes and it is cutting out and not running well. Dealer 2 put a new deck belt on, since the old one was stretched. Well after 5 hours the new belt Part number 954-05021 Which according to cub cadet is the right belt. Is too stretched out to work. So dealer 3 is telling me number 2 put on the wrong belt. Dealer 3 has the mower back again, they are trying to figure out why the belt doesn't tighten up when the pto is engaged (manual). So I contacted cub cadet today. With them you can either chat online or they give you a phone number to the engine manufacturer. By the way Kohler's number is 1-800-800-7310. Kohler, or course grinded me for not taking it to my local dealer. Then said they would reach out to the dealer that has the mower now. All cub cadet chat could do was confirm that dealer #2 did put on the right belt. Now this is costing me about $350.00 per visit. I am getting tired quick. the mower has 378 hours on it. Any suggestions?

Click to expand...

If you're not going to try to fix it yourself, then you need a dealer who will. The dealers you're working with are not skilled enough to fix this. Change that or get some tools and go at it. Acting like it's running out of fuel and surging is probably carburetor related or maybe something as simple as a plugged fuel line. Do you put stabilizer in your fuel? If not, you should.

Joe Kuhn said:

If you're not going to try to fix it yourself, then you need a dealer who will. The dealers you're working with are hacks. Change that or get some tools and go at it. Acting like it's running out of fuel and surging is probably carburetor related or maybe something as simple as a plugged fuel line. Do you put stabilizer in your fuel? If not, you should.

Click to expand...

Agreed. Seeing a lot of typing and not much fixing.

6620 said:

Bought it brand new. And yes I tried all the prior suggestions from last year. I can't get any of the dealers to do the vent bypass as mentioned in service bulletin #378. They just told me they checked that, and it was fine. As if I was a little old lady complaining about a speck on the glass. What do you think it is worth. John Deere already told me they wouldn't give anything for it. (I didn't tell them it didn't run right.)

Click to expand...

Start at the basics. Air, fuel, spark and compression.

1.Air = remove air filter FOR TESTING ONLY.

2.Fuel = remove fuel line AT carb. Pour into a glass jar. Start engine if you have an fuel pump or let gravity do it's thing. Should have good fuel flow AT carb.

Clean carb. Might take 3 cleans till she works proper. Stay away from ebay/amazon chinese carbs. Or replace carb with OEM.

Check for vacuum leaks. Spray WD-40 around carb mount and intake manifold areas. If the engine smooths out, you found your leak.

3.Spark = take an old plug. Gap to 1/4" wide. Ground on engine block. Should have a nice blue spark.

4.Compression = use a gauge and see what you have.

Have you ever pulled the metal engine shroud and cleaned the top of the block and cooling fins? This is a yearly maintenance item in ALL engine manuals. Neglect this and you are looking at engine damage. I know, what cooling fins.

slomo said:

Start at the basics. Air, fuel, spark and compression.

1.Air = remove air filter FOR TESTING ONLY.

2.Fuel = remove fuel line AT carb. Pour into a glass jar. Start engine if you have an fuel pump or let gravity do it's thing. Should have good fuel flow AT carb.

Clean carb. Might take 3 cleans till she works proper. Stay away from ebay/amazon chinese carbs. Or replace carb with OEM.

Check for vacuum leaks. Spray WD-40 around carb mount and intake manifold areas. If the engine smooths out, you found your leak.

3.Spark = take an old plug. Gap to 1/4" wide. Ground on engine block. Should have a nice blue spark.

4.Compression = use a gauge and see what you have.

Have you ever pulled the metal engine shroud and cleaned the top of the block and cooling fins? This is a yearly maintenance item in ALL engine manuals. Neglect this and you are looking at engine damage. I know, what cooling fins.

Click to expand...

@6620, This is an excellent overview of what you can do yourself. If you were near me, I'd offer to help, but I bet you're not. Notice the spun wire cleaners in my Avatar which is the little picture above my name to the left of each of my posts. That's what I use to clean jets in carbs. Based on some discussion, it appears you have a fuel pump instead of a carb. I have no experience with pumps, so you're on your own there. Good luck and remember: there is ALWAYS a reason, you just have to discover it. That is the task.

There is ALWAYS a reason. ALWAYS.

waiting for dealer #3 to tell me they are done with the mower. Then I will go pay the bill and retrieve the mower. If they do not get it fixed, I will first change the fuel lines. then go down the list posted by slomo.

Joe Kuhn said:

@6620, This is an excellent overview of what you can do yourself. If you were near me, I'd offer to help, but I bet you're not. Notice the spun wire cleaners in my Avatar which is the little picture above my name to the left of each of my posts. That's what I use to clean jets in carbs. Based on some discussion, it appears you have a fuel pump instead of a carb. I have no experience with pumps, so you're on your own there. Good luck and remember: there is ALWAYS a reason, you just have to discover it. That is the task.

There is ALWAYS a reason. ALWAYS.

Click to expand...

No Carb??

6620 said:

No Carb??

Click to expand...

Not sure what you mean.

6620 said:

waiting for dealer #3 to tell me they are done with the mower. Then I will go pay the bill and retrieve the mower. If they do not get it fixed, I will first change the fuel lines. then go down the list posted by slomo.

Click to expand...

Giterdun!

See picture, this is what the mechanic manufactured to make the pto belt work properly. Dealer 2 put a new deck belt on. It (the prior new belt) was screeched out after 5 hours of use. Mechanic said that he called cub cadet and asked if there was a repair to make the pto engagement work properly, they said no one else had complained about the pto not putting the proper tension on the belt. So if you guys start burning belts, here is what you might need to do. So this last weekend, my wife got 11 minutes before the cutting out started. So then I changed out the fuel lines. Made no difference. Then she would get about 7 minutes before it would cut out. I raised the seat and cleaned the seat shutoff connection. That too made no difference. When she starts the mower, she turns the key back one notch. and pushed the triangle shaped button. That allows you to back up while the deck is engaged. She said that a time or two when she went to back up the mower would again try to die (cut out). She would look down and the light for the backup lock out would be out. So now I am thinking it is the switch. So I called dealer 3 and asked if they had an ignition switch in stock. They checked and said yes we have 10. I asked how much are they? $80.07. So then I asked why do you have so many? They said we sell a lot of them, people park the mowers outside in the rain and the switches don't last that long in that condition. I stopped by dealer 1 to see about a new headlight for the mower. I asked if they had a switch in stock. I wanted to see what the back side looked like to evaluate my ability to change it myself. While I was there another customer came in wanting to buy that switch because he said the key keeps breaking off in it.

See picture. What does this wire do. I can tell you what it did this last weekend. Apparently it came loose and prohibited the mower from starting. My Son pushed the plug in in and then the mower started. I have been putting Seafoam in the fuel tank for about the last month. So besides the failure to start it only went to cutting out once after 7 minutes of run time. I bought an ignition switch to put on this last weekend. but it appears I need to buy this wire harness instead. We now have a mark on the white part of the plugin. So we can check it from time to time. I can tell you we noticed before we put the mower away it was 1/4 of an inch down from where it should have been. Thanks

That's the anti afterfire solenoid, it has metal pin with a rubber plunger on the end, that stops up the main jet to prevent that "BANG" you rarely get after you shut off your mower.

the plug in for that comes loose and prohibits the mower from starting. I have to confirm my engine numbers with the dealer, then I can buy the solenoid for only 100.80. Still would like to get the wire harness for that. Since I don't know which one is screeched out.

6620 said:

the plug in for that comes loose and prohibits the mower from starting. I have to confirm my engine numbers with the dealer, then I can buy the solenoid for only 100.80. Still would like to get the wire harness for that. Since I don't know which one is screeched out.

Click to expand...

Remove the carb solenoid. Snip off the plunger tip and wire holding the tip. Reinstall solenoid. Free.

Problem solved! it was the anti afterfire solenoid under the carb. I changed that. Had my wife go mow for half an hour and no problems. Now when you push the throttle down you also don't get any backfire. So, if you ever have a backfire from deceleration, change that solenoid. Now we have to change the ignition switch as you have to go past the turn off position to get it to die. Thanks for all the great advice.

I like my engine kill backfire. Just like Uncle Buck the movie LOL. Neighbors love it ha-ha-ha.