Got a craftsman 917.273760 riding mower from my brother in another state. Been turning over and starting just fine.
little background:
Trickle charged battery overnight before bringing it home.
been mostly sitting for 2 weeks but always turned over and started (when I added fuel)
Noticed headlights weren’t plugged in so I did. Always stated before that
Wouldn’t turn over today. Sometimes it tried but no dice
Thinking the headlights ran the battery down I unplugged the lights. Tested the battery and it measured 12+ volts.
trckle and fast charged it anyway. No dice
Hooked charger up, compressed the presence lever, and tried again. No dice
Try this procedure, as it has helped others. Post back you finds.
Electrical problems can be very easy or very difficult, depending on four things.
1. How well you understand basic electricity.
2. What tools you have and know how to use.
3. How well you follow directions.
4. You don't overlook or assume anything and verify everything.
Remember we cannot see what you are doing. You are our eyes, ears and fingers in solving this problem. You must be as accurate as you can when you report back. The two basic tools we will ask you to use are a test light and a multi-meter. If you have an assistant when going through these tests it would be very helpful. These steps work the best when done in order, so please don't jump around. Now let's solve this problem.
First, check the fuse(s), check battery connections for corrosion (clean if necessary) and voltage - above 12.5 volts should be good. Check and make sure the chassis ground is clean and tight.
Second, check for power from the battery to one of the large terminals on the solenoid. One of the wires is connected directly to the battery and has power all the time so one of the large terminals should light a test light or show 12 volts on a meter at all times.
Third, check for power at the small terminal of the solenoid while depressing the clutch/brake pedal and holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch). If your solenoid is a four wire solenoid, check both small wire terminals as one is ground and the other is power from the ignition switch. If your solenoid is a three wire solenoid, make sure the solenoid body is not corroded where it bolts to the chassis of the mower as this is your ground path back to the battery. If in doubt, remove the solenoid and clean the mounting area down to bare metal. If there is no power to the small terminal then your problem is most likely a safety switch, ignition switch or in the wiring.
Fourth, check for power on the other large terminal of the solenoid while holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch).
Fifth, check for power at the starter while holding the key in the start position (assistant again).
Sixth, check your ground circuit back to the battery.
After you have gone through each of the above steps, let us know what happened when you did each step. At that point we will have great info to tell you how to proceed. Remember you are our eyes, ears, and fingers, so please be as accurate as possible.
Be as specific as possible with voltage readings as this will help diagnose your problem quicker. If you do not know how to perform the above checks, just ask and I will try to guide you through it. Youtube also has some videos and as you know a picture is worth a thousand words.
Started on your list.
check the fuse(s), - good
check battery connections for corrosion (clean if necessary) and - clean
voltage - above 12.5 volts should be good. - 12.7
Check and make sure the chassis ground is clean and tight. - checked the negative battery cable from battery end to chassis ground. Whoops, open circuit. Took cable off, chassis end was TIGHT, cleaned connectors and chassis where cable connects; it was corroded (semi rusty). Reinstalled and voila. Instant start.
I’ve never had that issue in over 60 years of fooling with machinery. Whodda thunk?
Thanks much for your help and list
Jerry
Thanks for letting us know you’ve solved the problem. Many times it’s the simple things that we should check first. Battery to chassis ground is the one connection is the most common cause.
Apparently the rust wasn't the entire, or possibly none, of the problem. two days later had the same issues. finally today got back in to the troubleshooting.
1. shorting across the solenoid - the engine tries to turn over exactly like when I don't short the solenoid.
2. took shroud off and tried starting again while watching the starter sprocket - the metal sprocket (14 teeth) rarely disengages from the flywheel to return "home" on the starter. I've inspected the flywheel and don't see any buggers on the flywheel to trap the sprocket.
3. Then put couple drops of oil on the sprocket teeth. After couple of tries it seemed to disengage as designed. Not sure how long this "fix" will last or if the hangup was because of the teeth being "dry" or if the starter worm gear is just worn out.
So, I'm either gonna rebuild the starter or buy a new one. Only kit I can find is almost $50 and they seem to be like chickens teeth in availability. AM starters range from $30 and up. So, hard choice here, NOT.
A major concern is if someone replaced an original 16-tooth starter with the 14-tooth. Any way to find out for sure?
While I'm in there I'm considering whether I should go ahead and replace the solenoid which runs in the $15 range.
any further comments will be greatly appreciated.
thanks,
jerry
#8
StarTech
Yes the 14 tooth is for the steel ring ring and the 16 tooth is for the plastic and aluminum ring gears. So you need to just know if the flywheel has steel or not. BTW the 14 starter gear is steel and the 16 tooth one is plastic.
Now if the metal teeth on pinion are damage it can jam the flywheel. I one back in the Summer that literally locked up the engine.
flywheel is steel. teeth on pinion don't look to be damaged. maybe the return spring. thanks much
#10
StarTech
It also be the meshing of the gears. Some starters are closer to flywheel than others. I know on my personal mower I had put two spacer washers between the starter and the crankcase so the pinion engage and disengage properly.
It also be the meshing of the gears. Some starters are closer to flywheel than others. I know on my personal mower I had put two spacer washers between the starter and the crankcase so the pinion engage and disengage properly.
Unless the AM starter has a brand name stamped into the case it will be junk .
Probably replace a dozen or so every year for customers who saw a cheap one on EvilPay or Ammozone
Nearly all of them were 2 pole starters ( should be 4 pole ) and drew a massive amount of amps so often took the solenoid out with them if you cranked for more than the recommended 30 sec
Bendex needs to be lubed with a dry lubricant like graphite powder or mica dust
Any oil type will attract dust & make the jambing worse over time
The bendexes do wear & are a normal service replacement item
Most of the quality AM parts companies do good quality rebuild kits
can one of youse guys tell me how to find the model-type-code numbers? i've looked on, above, and below the valve cover, looked over the spark plug, and looked over the muffler. no can find it.
#19
StarTech
If the engine is original then it is a 31H777-0297-E1.
New starter is Briggs part #693551, should be able to find one for less than $100. I’ve rebuilt many starters and I recommend that you just purchase a new one. Parts alone will cost at least half that. That’s if the model Star posted is your engine.
before you go buying parts diagnose the problem.
It might need a new stater pinion , a new bendex gear , both quire cheap
Or the top bush might be gone easy repair but getting the oilite bushing is difficult and usually the shaft will require a light machine & shim so not economic to do
Then there is the other end brushes , springs & another oilite bush
New starter is Briggs part #693551, should be able to find one for less than $100. I’ve rebuilt many starters and I recommend that you just purchase a new one. Parts alone will cost at least half that. That’s if the model Star posted is your engine.
So , the existing starter sucks and is unreliable. I even shimmed the stater.
After looking around for a rebuild kit, and wasting a LOT of time, I’m looking for a new starter that is reliable. There are dozens of sellers on eBay and on google but I don’t know whether they are any good. I prefer one built by a standup manufacturer
I know many of you are reluctant to name a reputable brand but right now I’m drowning in info overload.
ANY leads are appreciated
Thanks
Jerry
Sucks & is unreliable
Don't have a sucks repair kit .
As for Ammzon & Evilpay about 1/2 of the people selling there are the same crooks just using different names
And all of them will be selling the same junk starter from China .
Buy one from a real mower shop, Auto electrician or stand alone on line parts retailer.
A good quality starter will have a BRAND NAME Stamped into the body
Lesser ones will just have sticker on them
Junk ones will be listed as unbranded
As dad used to say
HE WHO BUYS CHEAP PAYS THRICE
How many factories do you think make B & S starter motors 1, 2, 3 ,1000 ?
You would be lucky if more than 4 make the starter so the 5000 different ones on EvilPay & Ammozone will all come from the factory that makes the cheapest ones or be defective ones that some one bought as cheap scrap metal or will be defective ones that get sold as defective to factories who repair them to various levels of quality .
As I said, I replace about a dozen of them every year so the cheap $ 50 starter gets replaced with a good $ 150 starter + a $ 40 solenoid and often a pair of battery leads that were the actual problem in the first place.
Then there is another dozen or so starter pinions , 1 or 2 bendex gears , and 1 or 2 sets of brushes for the customers who have the common sense enough to ask me to fix their mower that does not crank properly.
Finally got a chance to check it today.
12.5 at rest. 7.6 when trying to start. Does that mean battery getting bad?
Of course y’all are thinking “what a nimrod” for not checking before. Of course, y’all would be correct in that judgement
Thanks for all the input
jerry
do you know what CCA to replace with? Existing is 235 but not knowing the history of this mower (at least two previous owners) I’m hesitant to take that as gospel. It’s an 18hp
I recommend a battery with a minimum of 250 CCA for a single cylinder engine and minimum of 325 CCA for a two cylinder engine. Just my opinion, many will disagree.
Sure sounds like bad battery to me, if connections are all clean and tight. In the test above (battery voltage while trying to start), the minimum is 9.6 volts for automotive testing.
Question: did you try a jump start using cables from your automobile? If it cranks/starts then you've demonstrated by testing that your mower battery is bad.
Put a jumper ( booster to some ) from the battery - to a good ground close to the starter and measure again
If the drop is lower then clean or replace the ground cable
Do the same from battery + to the hot side of the solenoid
Same story.
If no difference both times then toss the battery.
I use LED lights in the workshop & power them from old mower batteries .
Before I could do either I thought to recharge my battery and check electrical connections again.
when I was checking the ground cable from battery to ground I discovered it was loose at the frame end. I guess I quit tightening when it got hard to turn the screw when I cleaned the connection week or so ago. DUH!!!
Don’t know if that resolved my issues but will let you know after ive used it a while.
so I learned a lesson I have learned repeatedly. Try the simple things first.
good news is I have a new starter and solenoid along with a spare of each
DAMN. I’m getting too old for this
Thanks for all the help. Go forth and conquer
now that it starts it smokes like a coal plant except it’s white smoke. Runs really rough and won’t rev. The smoke coats everything close to the muffler with black oily substance. Then smelled the new oil and sure enough it smells gassy.
can that be because I didn’t turn fuel valve off after having fuel in the tank after last time it ran? tank was empty today so I had to add fuel before starting.
or, do I have a head gasket issue?
Why did I take this mower?
