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Will not turn over with key will strat f unplug and bypass
#1
6
66goat
6
66goat
I am usually very good at figuring these out. I picked up a 50'' 0 turn Troy bilt with a 25 Kohler courage eng for a great price .Eng would not start so got it home and did some trouble shooting. Battery dead installed new nothing at the key bypassed key can jump from starter solenoid orange wire. Carb flooding needle stuck open rr carb cleaned and adj float level bench test fine. I changed the oil and plugs and started right up with bypassing the electrical harness. Back traced power from key I have ignition signal at the hour meter but nothing from there the park brake light stays illuminated when key turned to start position. Tested switch function after eng started I can plug it back in and eng will stay running until I shut it off and try to restart.
I have power at the orange wire from the ignition switch to the hour meter but nothing from there. Anyone have any ideas where to go next.
Both steering arm safety's work. Engage switches both side eng will die.
Seat safety works blades will not engage until pressure on seat.
There are 2 switched for the parking brake the top one doesn't seem to do anything.
The PTO will engage and disengage when running.
To make it run I unplug the main harness and jump it at the starter.
To shut it down I plug the harness back in and turn the key off.
The weird part is after it starts I can plug the harness back in and everything seems to work as it should no flashing park light all systems are a go.
Will the hour meter cause it not to start and run ?
Thanks guy hope someone can help.
I have power at the orange wire from the ignition switch to the hour meter but nothing from there. Anyone have any ideas where to go next.
Both steering arm safety's work. Engage switches both side eng will die.
Seat safety works blades will not engage until pressure on seat.
There are 2 switched for the parking brake the top one doesn't seem to do anything.
The PTO will engage and disengage when running.
To make it run I unplug the main harness and jump it at the starter.
To shut it down I plug the harness back in and turn the key off.
The weird part is after it starts I can plug the harness back in and everything seems to work as it should no flashing park light all systems are a go.
Will the hour meter cause it not to start and run ?
Thanks guy hope someone can help.
#2
M
Mikel1
M
Mikel1
I'm guessing this is the Mustang. Is their voltage coming from ignition switch on the start circuit, labeled A? That's if I have the correct diagram.
#3
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Not as weird as it sounds.
Two seperate safety circuits.One kills the spark and the other prevents the engine cranking.
The latter is wha is giving you greif.
If it is an MTD made model, go the the web page & download the owners manual & parts manual.
One of them will have a wiring diagram.
If the solenoid only has one control wire, the orange one then that halves your job, just trace it back ti the ignition switch.
In this circuit all the switches are in series ie the power passes through them to the next one.
Somewhere along the line there is a dud switch or a broken wire
Two seperate safety circuits.One kills the spark and the other prevents the engine cranking.
The latter is wha is giving you greif.
If it is an MTD made model, go the the web page & download the owners manual & parts manual.
One of them will have a wiring diagram.
If the solenoid only has one control wire, the orange one then that halves your job, just trace it back ti the ignition switch.
In this circuit all the switches are in series ie the power passes through them to the next one.
Somewhere along the line there is a dud switch or a broken wire
#4
6
66goat
I have ign signal to the hour meter with key then nothing the yellow black tracer wire has constant ground signal to kill the eng traced back to the parking brake switch I can unplug the brake switch and manually start the motor . The starter solenoid has 2 orange wires I get no key signal to the solenoid thinking I may have two issues. What's odd is with the key on and test light probe at the hour meter I can probe the orange wires and it will activate the starter so it tells me the system is looking for a ground. Thanks for the response.
6
66goat
Not as weird as it sounds.
Two seperate safety circuits.One kills the spark and the other prevents the engine cranking.
The latter is wha is giving you greif.
If it is an MTD made model, go the the web page & download the owners manual & parts manual.
One of them will have a wiring diagram.
If the solenoid only has one control wire, the orange one then that halves your job, just trace it back ti the ignition switch.
In this circuit all the switches are in series ie the power passes through them to the next one.
Somewhere along the line there is a dud switch or a broken wire
I have ign signal to the hour meter with key then nothing the yellow black tracer wire has constant ground signal to kill the eng traced back to the parking brake switch I can unplug the brake switch and manually start the motor . The starter solenoid has 2 orange wires I get no key signal to the solenoid thinking I may have two issues. What's odd is with the key on and test light probe at the hour meter I can probe the orange wires and it will activate the starter so it tells me the system is looking for a ground. Thanks for the response.
#5
6
66goat
6
66goat
It is a Mustang 50'' with 25 hp kholer I have ign signal to the hour meter from there nothing there are 2 orange wires at the solenoid that should light up nothing. I can manually start the eng by disconnecting the yellow wire with blk tracer at the eng harness it is getting constant ground signal I think that may be my parking brake switch issue but no clue why no ign signal from the meter.I'm guessing this is the Mustang. Is their voltage coming from ignition switch on the start circuit, labeled A? That's if I have the correct diagram.
#6
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
It will depend upon the solenoid.
If it has 2 small control wires then there is a better than average chance both the power and earth control wires are wired into the safety circuits.
If it only has a single control ( thin ) wire and that wire is showing 12V at the solenoid then the solenoid is not grounding.
Remove it and clean the contact surfaces so it can earth to the frame , usually via one or both of the mounting bolts.
All of the wires going into the PTO switch are earths with the exception of a single pair.
Very shortly the seat switch will be going from a direct contact to a pieso electric cell so the mower will know if it has been bypassed or if a child is in the drivers seat & will not switch on.
These types of switches are currently being fitted to small earth moving equipment to prevent kids stealing them on weekends.
A lot of the relays fitted do not switch the posative but switch the negative instead and that also confuses those who would hot wire or bypass safety switches.
Shortly to be sold in Aust all wires must be plain black wire. This is to prevent snotty nosed brats who deserve a swift boot up the backside hurting themselves when they steal your gear.
If it has 2 small control wires then there is a better than average chance both the power and earth control wires are wired into the safety circuits.
If it only has a single control ( thin ) wire and that wire is showing 12V at the solenoid then the solenoid is not grounding.
Remove it and clean the contact surfaces so it can earth to the frame , usually via one or both of the mounting bolts.
All of the wires going into the PTO switch are earths with the exception of a single pair.
Very shortly the seat switch will be going from a direct contact to a pieso electric cell so the mower will know if it has been bypassed or if a child is in the drivers seat & will not switch on.
These types of switches are currently being fitted to small earth moving equipment to prevent kids stealing them on weekends.
A lot of the relays fitted do not switch the posative but switch the negative instead and that also confuses those who would hot wire or bypass safety switches.
Shortly to be sold in Aust all wires must be plain black wire. This is to prevent snotty nosed brats who deserve a swift boot up the backside hurting themselves when they steal your gear.
#7
6
66goat
I have 2 orange wires on a single post and one green wire on the solenoid the orange wires should be getting an ign signal nut it stops at the hour meter I have a signal from the key to the meter orange wire then nothing from the meter my yellow black wire at the eng harness has continuous ground if I pull the yellow and man start the eng it's all good as soon as I plug the yellow back in it dies.
6
66goat
It will depend upon the solenoid.
If it has 2 small control wires then there is a better than average chance both the power and earth control wires are wired into the safety circuits.
If it only has a single control ( thin ) wire and that wire is showing 12V at the solenoid then the solenoid is not grounding.
Remove it and clean the contact surfaces so it can earth to the frame , usually via one or both of the mounting bolts.
All of the wires going into the PTO switch are earths with the exception of a single pair.
Very shortly the seat switch will be going from a direct contact to a pieso electric cell so the mower will know if it has been bypassed or if a child is in the drivers seat & will not switch on.
These types of switches are currently being fitted to small earth moving equipment to prevent kids stealing them on weekends.
A lot of the relays fitted do not switch the posative but switch the negative instead and that also confuses those who would hot wire or bypass safety switches.
Shortly to be sold in Aust all wires must be plain black wire. This is to prevent snotty nosed brats who deserve a swift boot up the backside hurting themselves when they steal your gear.
I have 2 orange wires on a single post and one green wire on the solenoid the orange wires should be getting an ign signal nut it stops at the hour meter I have a signal from the key to the meter orange wire then nothing from the meter my yellow black wire at the eng harness has continuous ground if I pull the yellow and man start the eng it's all good as soon as I plug the yellow back in it dies.
#8
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Well you have come to the limit of what I can do for you without a wiring diagram.
IT sounds like the power wire from the hour meter to the solenoid has an internal break, but the hour meter should not be connected to the starting circuit so it does not make sense to me as you are describing it.
The seat switch and the parking brake switch work together to kill the engine so you can get off with the parking brake applied and the engine continues to run.
But if you get off without the brake oapplied the engine dies.
The parking brake and the motion control levers ( both of them ) are connected together as well so if you try to move the mower with the brake still applied it will kill the engine.
All of the above are earth ciricuts so you are checking for continuity or open circuits at these switches, not power.
Sounds very much like the parking brake switch is faulty but as stated above I have no wiring diagram
IT sounds like the power wire from the hour meter to the solenoid has an internal break, but the hour meter should not be connected to the starting circuit so it does not make sense to me as you are describing it.
The seat switch and the parking brake switch work together to kill the engine so you can get off with the parking brake applied and the engine continues to run.
But if you get off without the brake oapplied the engine dies.
The parking brake and the motion control levers ( both of them ) are connected together as well so if you try to move the mower with the brake still applied it will kill the engine.
All of the above are earth ciricuts so you are checking for continuity or open circuits at these switches, not power.
Sounds very much like the parking brake switch is faulty but as stated above I have no wiring diagram
#9
BlazNT
BlazNT
What is the model number of the mower?
#10
6
66goat
17wfzacp011 z could be a 2 I believe it's a 2004 Mustang.
6
66goat
What is the model number of the mower?
17wfzacp011 z could be a 2 I believe it's a 2004 Mustang.
#11
6
66goat
I have tested the brake switch and it is faulty either that or there is a ground on the other side of the circuit. When I tested the plunger with a test light it will stay light up while depressing it. About a quarter of the way down it will briefly kill the test light then come back on and stays on in the fully depressed mode. If I'm thinking this system correctly it should release the ground when the plunger is all the way extended which is parking brake off.. The thing I don't get is why there is no crank signal I have traced the orange wire at the key start signal to the hour meter I get a signal to start there but nothing coming out the rest of the wires are grounded by the drive handle switches. I ordered a switch will see if that fixes it but I think there ar 2 issues. Thanks for the response.
6
66goat
Well you have come to the limit of what I can do for you without a wiring diagram.
IT sounds like the power wire from the hour meter to the solenoid has an internal break, but the hour meter should not be connected to the starting circuit so it does not make sense to me as you are describing it.
The seat switch and the parking brake switch work together to kill the engine so you can get off with the parking brake applied and the engine continues to run.
But if you get off without the brake oapplied the engine dies.
The parking brake and the motion control levers ( both of them ) are connected together as well so if you try to move the mower with the brake still applied it will kill the engine.
All of the above are earth ciricuts so you are checking for continuity or open circuits at these switches, not power.
Sounds very much like the parking brake switch is faulty but as stated above I have no wiring diagram
I have tested the brake switch and it is faulty either that or there is a ground on the other side of the circuit. When I tested the plunger with a test light it will stay light up while depressing it. About a quarter of the way down it will briefly kill the test light then come back on and stays on in the fully depressed mode. If I'm thinking this system correctly it should release the ground when the plunger is all the way extended which is parking brake off.. The thing I don't get is why there is no crank signal I have traced the orange wire at the key start signal to the hour meter I get a signal to start there but nothing coming out the rest of the wires are grounded by the drive handle switches. I ordered a switch will see if that fixes it but I think there ar 2 issues. Thanks for the response.
#12
BlazNT
BlazNT
#14
B
bertsmobile1
Well according to the wiring diagram there are three wires at the hour meter that should go + 12 V in the start position
One gets a feed direct from the key switch
the other, which is the one that triggers the solenoid goes through both neutral switches then the pto switch and then to both the hour meter and the starter solenoid.
From the diagram these look to be orange / white wires.
Unfortunately the supplied diagram has no parking brake switch shown so unless you can confirm that the wiring digram is correct and add the parking brake to it I will have to bow out as telling me what coloured wire has or has not got power or earth is of no use without a diagram to see actually where it goes to & what it is conncted to.
I have a systematic process to go through when diagnosising faulty wiring diagrams but it is way to complicated to post in a set by step generic mannar that could be followed by others.
Just remember the only + wires ar the ones that trip the start solenoid, power the PTO clutch and recharge the battery.
All the rest of the rires are eaths so all the rest of the switches will simply be earth switches connected to other earth switches so a lot of them will have earths both sides of the switch depending upon what the other switches that are connected to are doing.
B
bertsmobile1
I have tested the brake switch and it is faulty either that or there is a ground on the other side of the circuit. When I tested the plunger with a test light it will stay light up while depressing it. About a quarter of the way down it will briefly kill the test light then come back on and stays on in the fully depressed mode. If I'm thinking this system correctly it should release the ground when the plunger is all the way extended which is parking brake off.. The thing I don't get is why there is no crank signal I have traced the orange wire at the key start signal to the hour meter I get a signal to start there but nothing coming out the rest of the wires are grounded by the drive handle switches. I ordered a switch will see if that fixes it but I think there ar 2 issues. Thanks for the response.
Well according to the wiring diagram there are three wires at the hour meter that should go + 12 V in the start position
One gets a feed direct from the key switch
the other, which is the one that triggers the solenoid goes through both neutral switches then the pto switch and then to both the hour meter and the starter solenoid.
From the diagram these look to be orange / white wires.
Unfortunately the supplied diagram has no parking brake switch shown so unless you can confirm that the wiring digram is correct and add the parking brake to it I will have to bow out as telling me what coloured wire has or has not got power or earth is of no use without a diagram to see actually where it goes to & what it is conncted to.
I have a systematic process to go through when diagnosising faulty wiring diagrams but it is way to complicated to post in a set by step generic mannar that could be followed by others.
Just remember the only + wires ar the ones that trip the start solenoid, power the PTO clutch and recharge the battery.
All the rest of the rires are eaths so all the rest of the switches will simply be earth switches connected to other earth switches so a lot of them will have earths both sides of the switch depending upon what the other switches that are connected to are doing.
#15
6
66goat
Thanks for your input the hour meter has 4 wires orange with white tracer from the key for start signal this is functional the other 3 at this time are earth they are orange with black tracers . I know the park brake switch is faulty so I will replace it and go from there the diagram is not correct but will help with my diagnosis it is a process of elimination but does help with a good diagram. Thanks
6
66goat
Well according to the wiring diagram there are three wires at the hour meter that should go + 12 V in the start position
One gets a feed direct from the key switch
the other, which is the one that triggers the solenoid goes through both neutral switches then the pto switch and then to both the hour meter and the starter solenoid.
From the diagram these look to be orange / white wires.
Unfortunately the supplied diagram has no parking brake switch shown so unless you can confirm that the wiring digram is correct and add the parking brake to it I will have to bow out as telling me what coloured wire has or has not got power or earth is of no use without a diagram to see actually where it goes to & what it is conncted to.
I have a systematic process to go through when diagnosising faulty wiring diagrams but it is way to complicated to post in a set by step generic mannar that could be followed by others.
Just remember the only + wires ar the ones that trip the start solenoid, power the PTO clutch and recharge the battery.
All the rest of the rires are eaths so all the rest of the switches will simply be earth switches connected to other earth switches so a lot of them will have earths both sides of the switch depending upon what the other switches that are connected to are doing.
Thanks for your input the hour meter has 4 wires orange with white tracer from the key for start signal this is functional the other 3 at this time are earth they are orange with black tracers . I know the park brake switch is faulty so I will replace it and go from there the diagram is not correct but will help with my diagnosis it is a process of elimination but does help with a good diagram. Thanks
#16
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
I will hazard a guess that MTD are using the hour meter plug to do electrical diagnosis on their mowers as there is no earthy reason why all those wires need to go to the hour meter.
Hence my surprise when you first stated that the starter trigger wire was hooked up to the hour meter.
OTOH this will be good for the dealers who buy the kit because it can take forever to pin point electrical problems.
If they pass that on to the customer is of course another question all together.
Hence my surprise when you first stated that the starter trigger wire was hooked up to the hour meter.
OTOH this will be good for the dealers who buy the kit because it can take forever to pin point electrical problems.
If they pass that on to the customer is of course another question all together.
#17
6
66goat
I suspect you would be correct as I would have just run key hot and ground to operate it . Iwill get it figured out process of elimination. Thx.
6
66goat
I will hazard a guess that MTD are using the hour meter plug to do electrical diagnosis on their mowers as there is no earthy reason why all those wires need to go to the hour meter.
Hence my surprise when you first stated that the starter trigger wire was hooked up to the hour meter.
OTOH this will be good for the dealers who buy the kit because it can take forever to pin point electrical problems.
If they pass that on to the customer is of course another question all together.
I suspect you would be correct as I would have just run key hot and ground to operate it . Iwill get it figured out process of elimination. Thx.