Will an RZT-S Solve My Steep Slope Nightmare?

[texhobbit]

Part of my yard is a 25 degree embankment. It has always been a challenge to mow. Twelve years ago I tried to use a lawn tractor. It would climb the embankment fine, but with the engine in front, it would slide down with one wheel going forward and the other spinning backward. Then I tried a Dixon ZTR. With the rear engine, it would also climb ok, but going down was frightening. It seemed like it would almost freewheel. I had to hold the lap bars slightly in reverse to keep it from running away. And I had virtually no steering control. So for years I have been mowing with a rear engine Snapper rider with aftermarket aggressive tires. It works ok, but when going uphill, the unweighted front end gives me very little steering control.

Now I have learned that Cub Cadet has recently released a new residential zero turn model (RZT-S) with steerable front wheels. The literature indicates that it might be just what I need. But since it still uses hydraulic drive like the Dixon, I have concerns (and three questions).

1. If I release the "drive" pedal (which controls the swash plate), will the mower stop when going downhill? Or will it freewheel like the old Dixon? In other words, will the EZT transaxle design allow the wheels to turn the hydraulic motor and push oil through the system even though the pump swash plate is in "neutral", allowing the mower to roll downhill?

2. Is the EZT transaxle robust enough to withstand mowing a 25 degree embankment on a periodic basis? The slope is only about 3600 sq ft and mowed every two weeks in the summer. And because of safety concerns, I always go very slow. I assume that going slow puts less stress on the transaxle.

3. Since the dual EZT transaxles do not act like a typical differential, am I correct in thinking that I should get better traction going both up AND down the slope? If I loose traction with one tire on my Snapper, the drive force (or braking force) of the other tire is severely impaired. I frequently skid down the slope with one tire spinning backwards and the other freewheeling. But since the EZT transaxles are separate units, I would expect to have "independent" traction with each tire.

Thanks for any insight that the forum can provide.

 

[Borbis51]

I have a 25 degree slope in my front yard. I moved into my house a few months ago and mowing has proven to be a little dangerous. I have been looking at the same cub cadet as you to solve the problem. I just don't want to buy it if it won't work. It is rated for a 15 degree slope which is what most riding mowers are rated at. I think it might just be a liability issue to rate it for a steeper hill. Please let me know if you find anything out about this mower and it's ability on steep slopes.

 

[Ric]

The RZT-S is not going to solve your problem. To begin with you are mowing the wrong direction, you always mow across the face slope rather than up and down. Slope mowing with any mower and a especially a ZTR should be done from the bottom of the hill up always turning the mower up the hill at the end of each pass, if you turn down hill with any ZTR you'll lose control of the mower especially on a 25 degree embankment.

 

[Borbis51]

The RZT-S has all wheel steering which would give the rider more control down hill. The front wheels are not the traditional caster style wheels that are the cause for people losing control downhill on ZTR's. That is the only reason I was looking at this mower.

 

[Ric]

The RZT-S has all wheel steering which would give the rider more control down hill. The front wheels are not the traditional caster style wheels that are the cause for people losing control downhill on ZTR's. That is the only reason I was looking at this mower.

My point would be that there is nothing you can do with the S model that can't be done with the traditional ZTR if it's used correctly. If the all wheel steering is so great and gives you more control and is so much better than the Traditional ZTR what happened to the Cub Cadet I series zero turn lawn tractor? It worked the same way. Why doesn't Cub Cadet offer that model anymore?

 

[Borbis51]

Ric:

I don't know why Cub Cadet got rid of the I series. Then again, I don't know why the Dolorian was discontinued either What I do know, is that a ZTR is dangerous on hills because it steers with the rear wheels. This makes it difficult to maintain control when going downhill. When ZTR's came out, the number of mowing deaths went up quite significantly.

When it comes to the RZT-S, the front wheels having steering capability should make it safer to operate down hill. Do you disagree? I am not saying that a RZT-S will do a better job mowing grass, I am just looking for a mower I can use on my slope without killing myself.

Check out what consumer reports had to say about ZTR and hills.

Hills pose risks for some lawn tractors and riders

 

[Ric]

Ric:

I don't know why Cub Cadet got rid of the I series. Then again, I don't know why the Dolorian was discontinued either What I do know, is that a ZTR is dangerous on hills because it steers with the rear wheels. This makes it difficult to maintain control when going downhill. When ZTR's came out, the number of mowing deaths went up quite significantly.

When it comes to the RZT-S, the front wheels having steering capability should make it safer to operate down hill. Do you disagree? I am not saying that a RZT-S will do a better job mowing grass, I am just looking for a mower I can use on my slope without killing myself.

Check out what consumer reports had to say about ZTR and hills.

Hills pose risks for some lawn tractors and riders

Read what your consumer link said and how they tested the ZTR and Tractors on hills and I agree with there test even though it's bogus because the test they did and provided to the public in that link goes strictly against what the manufacturer states for safe operation. To do a test totally wrong and against manufacturers safe operation practices is pardon me but stupid.

You ask When it comes to the RZT-S, the front wheels having steering capability should make it safer to operate down hill. Do you disagree? YES I dis-agree because I'll bet you'll find the following statement in the manual for the S model also.

Any and all Manufacturer Manuals I've ever seen state always mow across the face of slope rather than up and down. When you mow up and down a hill you are mowing the wrong direction.

You say that a ZTR is dangerous on hills because it steers with the rear wheels and it makes it difficult to maintain control when going downhill. I agree with that statement to a point. They become dangerous when people fail to read the Owners Manual and do what it says and think they know more than the manufacturer does and then they get hurt and wonder why.

Any Zero Turn Rider on slopes when used correctly is perfectly safe.

 

[Borbis51]

When it comes to mowing on a slope I really don't know what I am doing, and that is why I am on here. I have been mowing with a 21 inch self-propelled mower going across (I have a 1 acre yard). I had a garden tractor but it was way to dangerous. I knew I would eventually push the limit and get hurt, so I got rid of it. I think going from side to side with a ZTR on a 25 degree slope would be too dangerous. The guy that use to live in my house used a commercial ZTR and mowed up the hill at an angle. He then went to the other side of the yard to a flatter section and mowed back up. That might be the only way.

As for the testing, yes, I am sure they tested against what the manufacturer suggested. They probably do that because people never seem to follow their recommendations or use common sense.
I agree that they need to be used correctly, but can a ZTR be used correctly on such a steep hill? I am sure you will not find a ZTR that says it is rated for a 25 degree slope.

I am off to a Cub Cadet dealer tomorrow to talk to them.

 

[texhobbit]

Wow! I'm glad that someone finally took an interest in my thread, but I'm not learning a lot yet. Because of retaining walls and obstacles, I CANNOT mow across my slope. I HAVE to mow up and down. I'm sure the manufacturers specify sideways mowing to minimize rollovers, but they also say NEVER to mow a slope that you cannot back up in reverse. Well you're not going to back up my slope with anything less than a four wheel drive mower (which is out of my budget) and I refuse to weed-eat 3600 sq. ft.

As I mentioned in the initial post, I have been successfully mowing the slope, up and down, for 12 years with a 42" rear engine Snapper rider. I am always extremely careful and have learned to NEVER EVER touch the clutch going uphill. If I lose traction, I turn off the key, and then gradually ease the mower back down the hill.

But I would expect that a RZT-S would mow the slope at least as well as the Snapper and hopefully better. Both are rear engine for traction, but the Cub should be better because the rear wheels have independent traction not a differential like the Snapper. Also, the Cub should steer more reliably than the Snapper since it gets assist from the rear wheels.

My main question is "Will the RZT-S (or any ZTR that uses the HydroGear EZT transmissions) stop while going downhill if I release the "drive" pedal"? Or will it try to run away with me like the old Dixon ZTR did when I tried it 12 years ago? When I look at the HydroGear design on their website, it appears that the wheels should stop. When the "drive" pedal is released, the swash plate goes to neutral so that the hydraulic pump stops pumping. The only way that the mower could move is if the torque on the rear wheels is able to turn the hydraulic motor into a "pump" which would then push the oil through the hydraulic pump. But with the pump in neutral, I don't see a way for the oil to move from one side of the pump to the other ... the pump pistons are not moving up and down when the swash plate is in neutral.

Anyway, I realize that I am exceeding the manufacturer's recommendation when I mow a slope this steep, but I'm able to do it now with the Snapper, I just want a safer solution. Even though they use a different transmission, can anyone with a Z Force S or a Tank SZ tell me if their machine will stop on a downhill?

 

[Parkmower]

I have mowed for a living for 15 years and I mow hills alot. I still mow hill you guys prob think impossible. I'll try amd take some pics. At my work we have had 3 mowers roll over.scary stuff. Same guy did it twice. Hasn't happened in over 14 years.

That said I won't go on any steep hill on a ZT. Front mounts are much better suited. Especially the 4wd models.
I'd look for a used one. There are some groundsmasters on my local Craig list for decent price.