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Wild cat issues

#1

W

Williams1020

I replaced the blades on my wild cat.
Was mowing along n disengaged the deck to move to the opposite side of drive to avoid theowing rocks at my truck.
Throttled down to engage the deck and nothing.
Throttled up a little and it engaged.
Mowing along and suddenly engine back fires n engine shuts down.
Checked all my safety switches, battery terminals and fuses.
Try to restart and all i get is clicking like the battery is dead.
I suspect safety switch or coil....any suggestions?


#2

5

577jersey

Sounds like more than one issue here..possibly a bad or dirty PTO switch.
I would by pass the safety switches one at a time and see if that fixes the issue,,is the clicking coming from the float bowl solenoid or the starter relay,,if its coming from the solenoid then I would lean toward a switch or wire broken :) ? :)


#3

W

Williams1020

577jersey said:
Sounds like more than one issue here..possibly a bad or dirty PTO switch.
I would by pass the safety switches one at a time and see if that fixes the issue,,is the clicking coming from the float bowl solenoid or the starter relay,,if its coming from the solenoid then I would lean toward a switch or wire broken :) ? :)
Click to expand...

Clicking is from solenoind like the battery doesnt have enough juice to engage the starter.
Im gonna rule out safety switch cuz if a safety switch was bad, it wouldnt allow contact to the solenoid.


#4

jekjr

jekjr

I am going to say you have a charging problem. Possibly a fuse blown or either a stator or regulator. The clicking sound is going to be because you have a low battery for sure. It would not be a safety switch because the safety switches would have to be made for the clicking sound to take place.


#5

W

Williams1020

577jersey said:
Sounds like more than one issue here..possibly a bad or dirty PTO switch.
I would by pass the safety switches one at a time and see if that fixes the issue,,is the clicking coming from the float bowl solenoid or the starter relay,,if its coming from the solenoid then I would lean toward a switch or wire broken :) ? :)
Click to expand...

I will note that i have had similar issues with the battery goin dead between mowing but the local repair shop did something to correct it.
Never has it back fired and just quit before.
I might need to just trade it in on a new mower.


#6

W

Williams1020

jekjr said:
I am going to say you have a charging problem. Possibly a fuse blown or either a stator or regulator. The clicking sound is going to be because you have a low battery for sure. It would not be a safety switch because the safety switches would have to be made for the clicking sound to take place.
Click to expand...

So why just suddenly back fire and quit?
Bad stator?


#7

B

bertsmobile1

Because the battery is running down.
When running at full revs the alternator is putting out enough to keep the engine running.
Whne youthrottled down the output from the alternator drops sp the fuel solenoid no longer has enough power to stay open & it suts off the fuel supply.


#8

B

bertsmobile1

Williams1020 said:
So why just suddenly back fire and quit?
Bad stator?
Click to expand...

The battery has run down to the point that the mower is running on the alternator output alone.
Slowing the engine drops the output to below 10V and the carb solenoid shuts down.
When the load form the solenoid is removed from the circuit the voltages rises momentarily so it opens back then of coures closes back down.
This fluttering might cycle a dozen or more times before then whole things shuts down period.
You need to recharge the battery then start the mower & check the charging cirucit.
If it checks out OK and the batery holds a charge OK you have a short somewnere in the wiring or some really dirty joints burning up the power.


#9

W

Williams1020

Just to clarify, the engine back fired and shut down when i was mowing and the revs were at full throttle.
My first thout was alternator because the engine will run off the battery when the alternator quits charging like a car but i dont know mowers.
I know a lil bit about older cars and 2 strokes.


#10

jekjr

jekjr

bertsmobile1 said:
Because the battery is running down.
When running at full revs the alternator is putting out enough to keep the engine running.
Whne youthrottled down the output from the alternator drops sp the fuel solenoid no longer has enough power to stay open & it suts off the fuel supply.
Click to expand...

I think that the charging is gone and it is running off of the battery alone. The voltage in the battery is dropping enough that it is not enough current to keep it running. Back firing many times comes from not having current or intermittent current. You can turn the switch off at high RPM and turn it back on and many times one will backfire. Therefore I still believe you have a charging issue not a switch issue.


#11

B

bertsmobile1

The ignition is self powering but the motor requires power to hold the fuel shut off solenoid open.
If it has a powered electronic speed control that will require some electricity as well.
However the biggest power gobbler is the electric PTO which eats up 1/2 or more of the alternator output, if everything is working properly.
Because power takes the easiest path, if there is a short it will all go through the short.


#12

W

Williams1020

bertsmobile1 said:
The ignition is self powering but the motor requires power to hold the fuel shut off solenoid open.
If it has a powered electronic speed control that will require some electricity as well.
However the biggest power gobbler is the electric PTO which eats up 1/2 or more of the alternator output, if everything is working properly.
Because power takes the easiest path, if there is a short it will all go through the short.
Click to expand...

Everything is not working properly.
The pto wont engage at low rpm.
I try to engage the pto at low rpm to keep stress off the belts.
When i activate the switch, the pto wont engage till i increase throttle to half power.


#13

BlazNT

BlazNT

You should not engage PTO below at least 1/2 throttle. I use 3/4 and higher throttle. Have you read the owners manual? it will tell you what your PTO is designed to do.


#14

B

bertsmobile1

Williams1020 said:
Everything is not working properly.
The pto wont engage at low rpm.
I try to engage the pto at low rpm to keep stress off the belts.
When i activate the switch, the pto wont engage till i increase throttle to half power.
Click to expand...

Because the voltage from the battery is too low and the alternator is not putting out full volts ay !/2 speed as per the previous answer


#15

W

Williams1020

Thanks for all the helpful info folks!


#16

W

Williams1020

So i checked the volts from my new battery with engine off (showing 11.43).
Then i checked it again with mower running at full throttle and its showing same volts or it will fluctuate from 11 ish to 13 something.
Seems its charging none or a bad connection and only charging some of the time.


#17

5

577jersey

Williams1020 said:
So i checked the volts from my new battery with engine off (showing 11.43).
Then i checked it again with mower running at full throttle and its showing same volts or it will fluctuate from 11 ish to 13 something.
Seems its charging none or a bad connection and only charging some of the time.
Click to expand...
Try running about 1/2 throttle and see what it does...I’ve noticed a good stator will charge close to 15v most of the time..1/4 to half throttle.


#18

M

Mad Mackie

All Scag machines have a model number and a serial/vin number.
Providing this information allows us to find your specific machine manuals on the Scag website and better diagnose the problems with your specific machine.
New batteries always need to be charged prior to use.
Charging system basics:
The stator on the engine and under the flywheel puts out AC at around 30 volts with the engine running. This is the input to regulator/rectifier.
As part of the AC is the wrong polarity, the regulator/rectifier blocks the wrong polarity and allows the correct polarity of the AC to pass thru, this is the function of the rectifier.
The correct polarity electricity passes thru and gets regulated to the DC voltage range determined by the regulator portion.
The R/R output, which now is pulsating DC, passes thru terminals in the machine to engine harness connector, then to the 20 AMP fuse in the yellow wiring.
From the fuse, it goes to the power in terminal on the back of the key switch.
When the key switch is in the on position and the engine running, the charging system output passes thru two contacts internal in the key switch, back out the machine electrical harness, thru the 20 AMP fuse in the red wire, to the positive battery cable connection on the engine start solenoid and finally to the positive terminal on the battery.
The ground portion of the electrical system from the battery is connected to one of the engine mounting bolts as ground.
Items to quickly check:
Both fuses and the holders that they mount into.
Engine electrical connector to the machine electrical harness.
The electrical connector on the rear of the key switch.
The terminals that are on the grounding wires connecting to the engine mounting bolt.
From here a multimeter will be needed to further check the rest of the related electrical components/switches/connectors.


#19

5

577jersey

Mad Mackie said:
All Scag machines have a model number and a serial/vin number.
Providing this information allows us to find your specific machine manuals on the Scag website and better diagnose the problems with your specific machine.
New batteries always need to be charged prior to use.
Charging system basics:
The stator on the engine and under the flywheel puts out AC at around 30 volts with the engine running. This is the input to regulator/rectifier.
As part of the AC is the wrong polarity, the regulator/rectifier blocks the wrong polarity and allows the correct polarity of the AC to pass thru, this is the function of the rectifier.
The correct polarity electricity passes thru and gets regulated to the DC voltage range determined by the regulator portion.
The R/R output, which now is pulsating DC, passes thru terminals in the machine to engine harness connector, then to the 20 AMP fuse in the yellow wiring.
From the fuse, it goes to the power in terminal on the back of the key switch.
When the key switch is in the on position and the engine running, the charging system output passes thru two contacts internal in the key switch, back out the machine electrical harness, thru the 20 AMP fuse in the red wire, to the positive battery cable connection on the engine start solenoid and finally to the positive terminal on the battery.
The ground portion of the electrical system from the battery is connected to one of the engine mounting bolts as ground.
Items to quickly check:
Both fuses and the holders that they mount into.
Engine electrical connector to the machine electrical harness.
The electrical connector on the rear of the key switch.
The terminals that are on the grounding wires connecting to the engine mounting bolt.
From here a multimeter will be needed to further check the rest of the related electrical components/switches/connectors.
Click to expand...
Great post,,yeah I forgot the stator creates AC volts that feeds the rectifier then the rectifier converts it into DC...so to check the stator you need to find a wire schematic and see what wire feeds the rectifier AC and how much it should be.


#20

W

Williams1020

Mad Mackie said:
All Scag machines have a model number and a serial/vin number.
Providing this information allows us to find your specific machine manuals on the Scag website and better diagnose the problems with your specific machine.
New batteries always need to be charged prior to use.
Charging system basics:
The stator on the engine and under the flywheel puts out AC at around 30 volts with the engine running. This is the input to regulator/rectifier.
As part of the AC is the wrong polarity, the regulator/rectifier blocks the wrong polarity and allows the correct polarity of the AC to pass thru, this is the function of the rectifier.
The correct polarity electricity passes thru and gets regulated to the DC voltage range determined by the regulator portion.
The R/R output, which now is pulsating DC, passes thru terminals in the machine to engine harness connector, then to the 20 AMP fuse in the yellow wiring.
From the fuse, it goes to the power in terminal on the back of the key switch.
When the key switch is in the on position and the engine running, the charging system output passes thru two contacts internal in the key switch, back out the machine electrical harness, thru the 20 AMP fuse in the red wire, to the positive battery cable connection on the engine start solenoid and finally to the positive terminal on the battery.
The ground portion of the electrical system from the battery is connected to one of the engine mounting bolts as ground.
Items to quickly check:
Both fuses and the holders that they mount into.
Engine electrical connector to the machine electrical harness.
The electrical connector on the rear of the key switch.
The terminals that are on the grounding wires connecting to the engine mounting bolt.
From here a multimeter will be needed to further check the rest of the related electrical components/switches/connectors.
Click to expand...

Tell me you are a beautiful girl about 27 yrs old with no kids and earn around 60 grand a yr lol?
Seriously! Thanks for the excellent post.
There is a tag on the deck that has model and serial number.
Model: smwc-61v
Serial: b6101767

And then there is another tag on the inside of the frame.
Model: stwc61v-26ka-lc
Serial: b5600717


#21

W

Williams1020

Update: i discovered my hour meter quit working (it was replaced last season).
The coolent temp gauge quit working.
And after replacing the rectifier and the battery, the charging issue still exists.
Cant find any broken wires or bad fuses.
My buddy mentioned the ignition switch could be the issue.
Anybody any more recommendations?


#22

mcdonell

mcdonell

I have about 8 batteries in my shop that are installed in various mowers and motorcycles. I have two float battery charger/tenders on two batteries at all times. I rotate the tender between vehicles with quick disconnects. My batteries last forever by maintaining a full charge at all times.

I use to have a mower with a bad charging system and I could easily mow for several hours with a fully charged battery. I mowed with the bad charging unit for a couple of years before finally getting rid of it.

Seems nothing gets dirtier or dustier than our mowers. This is a challenge with electrical wiring and switches. This is one reason I only blow off my mowers with a blower instead of washing them with a hose. I also park my units inside the shop out of the rain and dew when not in use.

I would likely clean all the connections in hopes I stumbled upon the problem. I would focus on ground wire connections. Next I would do like your doing and search the web. Surely yours is not the only one to have had this problem.

I wish I could help me more but I cant. Maybe someone will read your thread and chime in.


#23

B

bertsmobile1

Mack told you what to do.
You check the output from the rectifier to ground then follow this back down the loom.
Somewhere there will be a bad connection.
Or you can just keep on replacing parts at random in the hope you eventually stumble upon the culprit, unless it is a bad connection.

You should be reading 13V to 15V at the battery with the engine at full throttle and the blade engaged.


#24

W

Williams1020

bertsmobile1 said:
Mack told you what to do.
You check the output from the rectifier to ground then follow this back down the loom.
Somewhere there will be a bad connection.
Or you can just keep on replacing parts at random in the hope you eventually stumble upon the culprit, unless it is a bad connection.

You should be reading 13V to 15V at the battery with the engine at full throttle and the blade engaged.
Click to expand...

I did check at full throttle but not with the pto engaged.
The battery went from 11.50v to 11.15v in about 10 minutes.
And didnt increase volts in that time.


#25

B

bertsmobile1

I repeat.
Mackie told you that the output from the alternator should be 30V AC if the alternator is working.
You have just replaced the rectifier without checking if the rectifier was working.
Checking the battery voltage is a good place to START.
If it is too low then the next place to check is the rectifier voltage.
You check for DC output from the middle terminal to earth.
It must be 13V to 15V
If not then you check the AC output from the stator.
They will be the 2 wires that are the same colour measure between them 26V AC to 40V AC
And from each one to earth , must be the same voltage AC.
If the AC readings re not within spec then the stator is the problem
If the AC measured good then the rectifier is the problem.
IF the AC & DC measured good then the problem is in the wiring.
So you check the voltage from the rectifier all the way back through the loom.
If for instance the wire is broken just at the terminal plug on the ignition switch, replacing the switch will not do you much good.

The mower shop near hear has a thing for cutting the rectifier wire and connecting it directly to the battery via the hot terminal on the starter solenoid.
As you have no idea what your shop did, you will have to check everything.
This applies particularly if they decided to use insulated crimp terminals in a place where they should never be used - in an exposed position.


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