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Where would the world be without the USA?
#1
S
slomo
S
slomo
No internet
No porn industry
No Snapper mowers
No crappy cars and trucks
No TV's
No good music
No computers - which later lead to cell phones
No microwave ovens
many many more
No porn industry
No Snapper mowers
No crappy cars and trucks
No TV's
No good music
No computers - which later lead to cell phones
No microwave ovens
many many more
#2
mcostello
mcostello
No freedom anywhere.
#3
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
No Honda engines, No Kawasaki engines....err oh wait.... 
#4
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
It's tough enough keeping it here....No freedom anywhere.
#5
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
No ignorant ilinformed people with a massive over inflated ideas about their own supremesy unwilling to believe that there are other people on the planet with a functioning brain and claiming they own everything while being too bone lazy to actually check anything except with other Americans .
1) Internet, well that is tricky because it was a world wide collaboration .
Americans will tell everyone that the internet evolved from ARPNET, but ARPNET was just a private email network and in reality it goes back to technologies the USA got from Germany as reptreations.
What makes the INTERNET the internet is TCP/IP and that came fro CERN in Switzerland
2) Porn was around in the Greek & Roman times, if not before and is clearly depicted in some of the pottery which for reasons of the "Fake" modesty is hidden in the basements of museums & universities for use by scholars only
IF you want some porn in literature search for the works of the Persian poet Suffi or perhaps the Kama Sutra
3) ?
4) The UK & soviets were making crappy vehicles long before the USAthey just don't pretend that they are the best on the planet.
5) TV was first introduced back in 1840 by Scottish & German scientists wanting to share the results of laboratory experiments with each other.
In 1926 an Australian back yard inventor broadcast the Melbourne cup ( horse race ) from Flemington Melbourne to Ballarat Victoria then lost interest and went into rocketry .
6) a matter of taste
7) again tricky one.
Most objective historians would put the origin at the Bletchly Park WWII research station.
Now the personal computer can definately be attributed to Apple .
8) an Australian invention .
Because the telephone system in Aust was originally government owned , every Australian was deemed to have equal rights to a telephone . ( never happened in the USA )
Because Australia is the same land masa as continental USA we had to be able to send telephone signals over massive distances .
But because of the geography & small population running wires was not an option so we perfected the use of microwave radio transmission for telephones which at a latter date sold to Bell Industries
At one time Aust had over 90% of the microwave patients world wide .
The technicians working on the towers noticed that the eggs in the nests of birds in & around the towers were all cooked .
The CSIRO ( government research facility ) investigated and invented the microwave oven.
Now at that time we had an unbelievably conservative government and part of that government policy was anything the government developed that had commercial potential to make a profit must be sold to private enterprise. No Australia company wanted it ( or could afford it ) so GE bought the technology & release the domestic microwave oven. ( same story with Rank Xeros & copiers )
And Cable TV was also an Australian invention ( developement would be more appropriate ) and again at one time he held over 80% of the world wide patients for the use of optical fibre for communications. The longest fibre was the Sydney Melbourne line and that was also the first one to send TV signals down a fibre cable thus inventing ( if you like ) cable TV and for the same reason as above the technology was again sold off.
Up until 2015 Australia had the largest optical fibre network on the planet and had the government appointed board members of the now privatised telephone company ( Telstra ) back in 2000 not vetoed the plan to take the fibre network to each house hold we would have had the worlds first all fibre network on the planet .
All the USA really is happens to be the largest single private market on the planet which means it benefits from the mass effect so any new technology introduced can get massive market penetration very quickly which results in massive profits which in turn causes massive product development very quickly as every Tom Dick & Harry attempts to catch the cash train .
Oh and the Wi-Fi you use to connect your computer, phone,TV etc to your fibre modem & the WWW, you guessed it another Aussie invention / development .
1) Internet, well that is tricky because it was a world wide collaboration .
Americans will tell everyone that the internet evolved from ARPNET, but ARPNET was just a private email network and in reality it goes back to technologies the USA got from Germany as reptreations.
What makes the INTERNET the internet is TCP/IP and that came fro CERN in Switzerland
2) Porn was around in the Greek & Roman times, if not before and is clearly depicted in some of the pottery which for reasons of the "Fake" modesty is hidden in the basements of museums & universities for use by scholars only
IF you want some porn in literature search for the works of the Persian poet Suffi or perhaps the Kama Sutra
3) ?
4) The UK & soviets were making crappy vehicles long before the USAthey just don't pretend that they are the best on the planet.
5) TV was first introduced back in 1840 by Scottish & German scientists wanting to share the results of laboratory experiments with each other.
In 1926 an Australian back yard inventor broadcast the Melbourne cup ( horse race ) from Flemington Melbourne to Ballarat Victoria then lost interest and went into rocketry .
6) a matter of taste
7) again tricky one.
Most objective historians would put the origin at the Bletchly Park WWII research station.
Now the personal computer can definately be attributed to Apple .
8) an Australian invention .
Because the telephone system in Aust was originally government owned , every Australian was deemed to have equal rights to a telephone . ( never happened in the USA )
Because Australia is the same land masa as continental USA we had to be able to send telephone signals over massive distances .
But because of the geography & small population running wires was not an option so we perfected the use of microwave radio transmission for telephones which at a latter date sold to Bell Industries
At one time Aust had over 90% of the microwave patients world wide .
The technicians working on the towers noticed that the eggs in the nests of birds in & around the towers were all cooked .
The CSIRO ( government research facility ) investigated and invented the microwave oven.
Now at that time we had an unbelievably conservative government and part of that government policy was anything the government developed that had commercial potential to make a profit must be sold to private enterprise. No Australia company wanted it ( or could afford it ) so GE bought the technology & release the domestic microwave oven. ( same story with Rank Xeros & copiers )
And Cable TV was also an Australian invention ( developement would be more appropriate ) and again at one time he held over 80% of the world wide patients for the use of optical fibre for communications. The longest fibre was the Sydney Melbourne line and that was also the first one to send TV signals down a fibre cable thus inventing ( if you like ) cable TV and for the same reason as above the technology was again sold off.
Up until 2015 Australia had the largest optical fibre network on the planet and had the government appointed board members of the now privatised telephone company ( Telstra ) back in 2000 not vetoed the plan to take the fibre network to each house hold we would have had the worlds first all fibre network on the planet .
All the USA really is happens to be the largest single private market on the planet which means it benefits from the mass effect so any new technology introduced can get massive market penetration very quickly which results in massive profits which in turn causes massive product development very quickly as every Tom Dick & Harry attempts to catch the cash train .
Oh and the Wi-Fi you use to connect your computer, phone,TV etc to your fibre modem & the WWW, you guessed it another Aussie invention / development .
#6
7394
7394
Put it this way, I do NOT wanna find out.
#7
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
The USA has one big advantage over the rest of the plant.
After the devistation of the civil war they worked out trying to erase each other off the face of the planet was not a good idea and should be avoided at all costs.
It took East Europe near 100 years to wake up to the same facts and the Middle East / SE Asia is still yet to come to their senses .
Thus all of the states no longer needed to waste a fortune on weapons that were obsolete the second they came off the production line .
Because of this enterpreners had to find other means of accumulating wealth so the mass consumer market was invented / evolved .
Because the USA is essentially an island it does not need to spend a fortune manning borders and is in a position to keep all wars happening on other peoples land.
This allows for continious development of factories and like Aust you could just keep on stealing land from the original inhabitants so could build factories on 100 acre greenfield sites thus practice economies of scale not available to any other developed country . This like Aust is also a factor in reducing civil wars because unlike Europe you do not need to take over your neighbours land to expand.
Having only one very large defense force you could afford to spend a massive amount of money developing more advanced weapons and the spin off of weaponary research were consumer products .
And here I call space research , weapons research because it was the fear of being attacked from space that really drove the space race
After the devistation of the civil war they worked out trying to erase each other off the face of the planet was not a good idea and should be avoided at all costs.
It took East Europe near 100 years to wake up to the same facts and the Middle East / SE Asia is still yet to come to their senses .
Thus all of the states no longer needed to waste a fortune on weapons that were obsolete the second they came off the production line .
Because of this enterpreners had to find other means of accumulating wealth so the mass consumer market was invented / evolved .
Because the USA is essentially an island it does not need to spend a fortune manning borders and is in a position to keep all wars happening on other peoples land.
This allows for continious development of factories and like Aust you could just keep on stealing land from the original inhabitants so could build factories on 100 acre greenfield sites thus practice economies of scale not available to any other developed country . This like Aust is also a factor in reducing civil wars because unlike Europe you do not need to take over your neighbours land to expand.
Having only one very large defense force you could afford to spend a massive amount of money developing more advanced weapons and the spin off of weaponary research were consumer products .
And here I call space research , weapons research because it was the fear of being attacked from space that really drove the space race
#8
B
bertsmobile1
All of the USA's military actions were either to protect the source of the raw materials it needs ( oil for example ) or because of the fear that the megga wealthy might have their "rights" to profit vastly from the under paid labour of others be challenged , thus the massive amount of money that went into anti communism / socialism properganda and wars .
The only case where one could say "freedom" was preserved by US actions is Korea and even then some would consider that Korea happened because of fear that US investments in rebuilding Japan would be under threat from the Chinese communist who were being supported by the Russian communist in repayment for the massive support with both men & materials the Russians got from the Chinese during WWII ( bet you were unaware of that )
I might note that despite the white governments best attempts to wipe them out, the Indigenous peoples of Australia have had freedom for over 80,000 years.
The communist people in Vietnam have quite a lot of freedom almost on par with most Western countries, the only read difference being that the Party Officials are profiting from the economy rather than the elite class ( Rockerfellas / Fords etc ) in Western economies .
Eventually totalitarian government will fail, look at what is happening in Brazil & Burma right now.
However what keeps totalitarian governments in power is support from external sources with a vested interest in benefiting from the regeime
The Talibahn are largely using Chinese weapons because China realized that they could become an ally of Afghanistan , thus not need to spend a fortune on border protection.
They can then access the vast amounts or rare earth resources to feed their manufacturing industry that is undermining the viability of manufacturing in the USA ( & the rest of the west ) plus allow the Afgans to ramp up opium production which will also find it's way into Western economies doing massive economic & social damage .
For China a win win win situation. The real loosers are Afgahn women but then again remember the West used to burn witches 150 year ago, women could not vote 75 years ago , most religions banned women from being church leaders and some still do so "freedom" is a some what relative concept .
The USA was in Afghanistan for the same reasons , to contain China by surrounding it with Western style democratic governments and of course to access the same rare earth minerals.
Russia was there for the same reason , border protection & minerals & the UK before them again for the minerals .
B
bertsmobile1
Total rubbishNo freedom anywhere.
All of the USA's military actions were either to protect the source of the raw materials it needs ( oil for example ) or because of the fear that the megga wealthy might have their "rights" to profit vastly from the under paid labour of others be challenged , thus the massive amount of money that went into anti communism / socialism properganda and wars .
The only case where one could say "freedom" was preserved by US actions is Korea and even then some would consider that Korea happened because of fear that US investments in rebuilding Japan would be under threat from the Chinese communist who were being supported by the Russian communist in repayment for the massive support with both men & materials the Russians got from the Chinese during WWII ( bet you were unaware of that )
I might note that despite the white governments best attempts to wipe them out, the Indigenous peoples of Australia have had freedom for over 80,000 years.
The communist people in Vietnam have quite a lot of freedom almost on par with most Western countries, the only read difference being that the Party Officials are profiting from the economy rather than the elite class ( Rockerfellas / Fords etc ) in Western economies .
Eventually totalitarian government will fail, look at what is happening in Brazil & Burma right now.
However what keeps totalitarian governments in power is support from external sources with a vested interest in benefiting from the regeime
The Talibahn are largely using Chinese weapons because China realized that they could become an ally of Afghanistan , thus not need to spend a fortune on border protection.
They can then access the vast amounts or rare earth resources to feed their manufacturing industry that is undermining the viability of manufacturing in the USA ( & the rest of the west ) plus allow the Afgans to ramp up opium production which will also find it's way into Western economies doing massive economic & social damage .
For China a win win win situation. The real loosers are Afgahn women but then again remember the West used to burn witches 150 year ago, women could not vote 75 years ago , most religions banned women from being church leaders and some still do so "freedom" is a some what relative concept .
The USA was in Afghanistan for the same reasons , to contain China by surrounding it with Western style democratic governments and of course to access the same rare earth minerals.
Russia was there for the same reason , border protection & minerals & the UK before them again for the minerals .
#9
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
We've kept Freedom pretty good here in the states...the people of Bulgaria took their country back from a communist regime and are free now. With no help from us as far as i know.. I gotta say America is dang good place to live and it'd be hard for me to consider anywhere else. It's the people who make it great... All different types, have melted together and added to the American culture.
#10
7394
7394
IMO, except for the illegals coming over middle of night, sick with covid & getting bused to various parts of the country.
#11
B
bertsmobile1
People with obvious Chinese appearance would also dispute that
As would a lot of people who practice Islam
And 7294 confirms the intollerance for South Americans, most of who are fleeing because of the mess the USA made of their home govenments
B
bertsmobile1
You might find some of African origins dispute that sentenceWe've kept Freedom pretty good here in the states...the people of Bulgaria took their country back from a communist regime and are free now. With no help from us as far as i know.. I gotta say America is dang good place to live and it'd be hard for me to consider anywhere else. It's the people who make it great... All different types, have melted together and added to the American culture.
People with obvious Chinese appearance would also dispute that
As would a lot of people who practice Islam
And 7294 confirms the intollerance for South Americans, most of who are fleeing because of the mess the USA made of their home govenments
#12
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
Some would disagree,yes.. The lazy probably who want things handed to them on a silver platter. And are afraid to break a sweat.
#13
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
It is funny thing buy most people want to remain living in the country of their birth .
They leave because they have to even if they are living under a tyrant.
A friend from a place where I used to work explained why he fled with his family
They cut off the water so we have to go to a trough for water several times a day because we could only use a fairly small jug.
They monitored how much water each person took to see if some one was taking too much which means they might be housing soldiers.
If he went for the water, he would either get press ganged into the malitia, beaten or killed.
If his wife went she would be raped
If his daughter s went they would be raped and probably abducted
If his sons went they would be shot .
By the way I did not mean to come over anti American.
There are a lot worse places to live and a lot worse governments on the planet
But there does seem to be a aweful lot of citizens of the USA who seem to think the entire planet is totally dependent upon the USA and every one owes the USA big time.
They leave because they have to even if they are living under a tyrant.
A friend from a place where I used to work explained why he fled with his family
They cut off the water so we have to go to a trough for water several times a day because we could only use a fairly small jug.
They monitored how much water each person took to see if some one was taking too much which means they might be housing soldiers.
If he went for the water, he would either get press ganged into the malitia, beaten or killed.
If his wife went she would be raped
If his daughter s went they would be raped and probably abducted
If his sons went they would be shot .
By the way I did not mean to come over anti American.
There are a lot worse places to live and a lot worse governments on the planet
But there does seem to be a aweful lot of citizens of the USA who seem to think the entire planet is totally dependent upon the USA and every one owes the USA big time.
#14
S
slomo
What about the covid illegals that don't go to a border crossing station? Guess all we can do now we are on Joe Biden's watch is say hi to your new neighbors. Or is it o'la?
We have parts of town in OKC where the businesses and shops are, well let's just say I feel like I need my passport to drive down certain parts of town. Feels like I crossed the border.
I don't mind them coming over. Just do it legally. There are no good jobs here anymore. Taxes everywhere and on everything you own. Some you pay taxes on multiple times. I don't see the draw to come here?????
S
slomo
You know they have green cards after ONE DAY being at our border right? They wait till nighttime and all the cameras are gone to bus them out. This happens every day non stop.IMO, except for the illegals coming over middle of night, sick with covid & getting bused to various parts of the country.
What about the covid illegals that don't go to a border crossing station? Guess all we can do now we are on Joe Biden's watch is say hi to your new neighbors. Or is it o'la?
We have parts of town in OKC where the businesses and shops are, well let's just say I feel like I need my passport to drive down certain parts of town. Feels like I crossed the border.
I don't mind them coming over. Just do it legally. There are no good jobs here anymore. Taxes everywhere and on everything you own. Some you pay taxes on multiple times. I don't see the draw to come here?????
#15
S
slomo
S
slomo
Did you call me? LOLSome would disagree,yes.. The lazy probably who want things handed to them on a silver platter. And are afraid to break a sweat.
#16
Scrubcadet10
If i remember right, at Yorktown cornwallis surrendered because of 2 main things, Extreme pressure from the land (U.S. Militia) and from the Sea... were french battleships with cannons pointed directly at him and a blockade lower at Chesapeake preventing any british help from coming. Anybody who says they, or we never need any help is arrogant and ignorant.
Scrubcadet10
It is true a lot of people think that way.... but they too, as well as the other political extreme, fail to remember History. We had a ton of help from France in the Revolution, and other countries in the most recent world wars.But there does seem to be a aweful lot of citizens of the USA who seem to think the entire planet is totally dependent upon the USA and every one owes the USA big time.
If i remember right, at Yorktown cornwallis surrendered because of 2 main things, Extreme pressure from the land (U.S. Militia) and from the Sea... were french battleships with cannons pointed directly at him and a blockade lower at Chesapeake preventing any british help from coming. Anybody who says they, or we never need any help is arrogant and ignorant.
#18
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
Property taxes are out of control here in Texas... our Rino governor keeps saying, and has said "They will not go higher" but they keep on do... i think he's going to be ousted in '22.. 3 very good primary candidates against him.You know they have green cards after ONE DAY being at our border right? They wait till nighttime and all the cameras are gone to bus them out. This happens every day non stop.
What about the covid illegals that don't go to a border crossing station? Guess all we can do now we are on Joe Biden's watch is say hi to your new neighbors. Or is it o'la?
We have parts of town in OKC where the businesses and shops are, well let's just say I feel like I need my passport to drive down certain parts of town. Feels like I crossed the border.
I don't mind them coming over. Just do it legally. There are no good jobs here anymore. Taxes everywhere and on everything you own. Some you pay taxes on multiple times. I don't see the draw to come here?????
#19
upupandaway
upupandaway
Just to clarify:
1) “… TCP/IP and that came fro CERN in Switzerland “ 2 men from IBM(USA) wrote TCP/IP. It was approved as a standard in Switzerland like WIFI, USB, ISA, PCI, etc + many other standards(IT wise).
8) ….every Australian was deemed to have equal rights to a telephone . ( never happened in the USA )
Actually, it DID happen in the US. As a consolation of allowing AT&T to remain as a whole, AT&T agreed to make phone service available to everyone. It is still the law and the FCC is debating dropping it(copper phone lines) because people are moving to cable\fiber\etc.
"Oh and the Wi-Fi you use to connect your computer, phone,TV etc to your fibre modem & the WWW, you guessed it another Aussie invention / development ." Was it before the early 90's? because Motorola had a inhouse wireless network(not Wifi standards- totally proprietary).
1) “… TCP/IP and that came fro CERN in Switzerland “ 2 men from IBM(USA) wrote TCP/IP. It was approved as a standard in Switzerland like WIFI, USB, ISA, PCI, etc + many other standards(IT wise).
8) ….every Australian was deemed to have equal rights to a telephone . ( never happened in the USA )
Actually, it DID happen in the US. As a consolation of allowing AT&T to remain as a whole, AT&T agreed to make phone service available to everyone. It is still the law and the FCC is debating dropping it(copper phone lines) because people are moving to cable\fiber\etc.
"Oh and the Wi-Fi you use to connect your computer, phone,TV etc to your fibre modem & the WWW, you guessed it another Aussie invention / development ." Was it before the early 90's? because Motorola had a inhouse wireless network(not Wifi standards- totally proprietary).
#20
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
#21
B
bertsmobile1
Not 100% about what part of Wi-Fi technology belongs to CSIRO but they showed $120,000,000 as "consolidated Wi-Fi royalties" so invented , developed, tweaked , not sure exactly .
However the point I wanted to make has been done
We all tend to believe that our own country is the greatest & best and everything every one uses is because we invented it and either benevolently allowed others to use it, had it stolen from us or sold / licensed it to others .
Every country's history is written by the schollars of that country so is always biased towards them in a very positive manner .
One of the few good things that the WWW does it allows stuff to come to light that otherwise governments do their best to surpress, like the 2,000,000 Chinese who died fighting Hitler in Russia and another 3,000,000 who died fighting the Japanese in China & Manchuria.
Ask any American or Australian about the war against Japan and well will all assume it only happened in the Pacific & SE Asia no one will know about the battles on the Chinese mainland
B
bertsmobile1
I stand corrected although the TCP/IP protocol was supposed to be a colaberation between a German & a US system AFAIK because it was decided that it had to be universal across the entire planet and no curently in use system should e allowed to dominate so some give & take.Just to clarify:
1) “… TCP/IP and that came fro CERN in Switzerland “ 2 men from IBM(USA) wrote TCP/IP. It was approved as a standard in Switzerland like WIFI, USB, ISA, PCI, etc + many other standards(IT wise).
8) ….every Australian was deemed to have equal rights to a telephone . ( never happened in the USA )
Actually, it DID happen in the US. As a consolation of allowing AT&T to remain as a whole, AT&T agreed to make phone service available to everyone. It is still the law and the FCC is debating dropping it(copper phone lines) because people are moving to cable\fiber\etc.
"Oh and the Wi-Fi you use to connect your computer, phone,TV etc to your fibre modem & the WWW, you guessed it another Aussie invention / development ." Was it before the early 90's? because Motorola had a inhouse wireless network(not Wifi standards- totally proprietary).
Not 100% about what part of Wi-Fi technology belongs to CSIRO but they showed $120,000,000 as "consolidated Wi-Fi royalties" so invented , developed, tweaked , not sure exactly .
However the point I wanted to make has been done
We all tend to believe that our own country is the greatest & best and everything every one uses is because we invented it and either benevolently allowed others to use it, had it stolen from us or sold / licensed it to others .
Every country's history is written by the schollars of that country so is always biased towards them in a very positive manner .
One of the few good things that the WWW does it allows stuff to come to light that otherwise governments do their best to surpress, like the 2,000,000 Chinese who died fighting Hitler in Russia and another 3,000,000 who died fighting the Japanese in China & Manchuria.
Ask any American or Australian about the war against Japan and well will all assume it only happened in the Pacific & SE Asia no one will know about the battles on the Chinese mainland
#22
7394
7394
When did everyone else start becoming first, used to be for Americans, that they came first, & then help other countries.
American can't make a tiny computer chip for these new vehicles. And our medicines should be made here too, & I'm sure sure other stuff should be made here in the USA as well.
.
American can't make a tiny computer chip for these new vehicles. And our medicines should be made here too, & I'm sure sure other stuff should be made here in the USA as well.
.
#23
B
bertsmobile1
Americans are still first, just not the general public.
it is the American money managers who shifted all of the production off shore so the fund managers could make a higher return for the money they have invested
Government of the people by the RICH for the benefit of the RICH
Nothing has changed much from day one except the numbers of the rich have reduced and the amount of the profits they hoover up has increased .
Jeff Bezos is treated like a god when in reality he is largely responsible for the collapse of US manufacturing and directly responsible for the drop in US retail employment
Walmart are in the same boat
Both Bezos & the Waltons have accumulated hundreds of millions from forcing millions out of work & onto social security.
Then because they are on social security they are forced to buy from the absolute cheapest source so even more money goes from your taxes to the social security recipient to Amazon & Walmart
The absolute greed of a few thousand is destroying the life of 350,000,000 and it is only a matter of time till you are one of them.
B
bertsmobile1
You have that wrong.When did everyone else start becoming first, used to be for Americans, that they came first, & then help other countries.
American can't make a tiny computer chip for these new vehicles. And our medicines should be made here too, & I'm sure sure other stuff should be made here in the USA as well.
.
Americans are still first, just not the general public.
it is the American money managers who shifted all of the production off shore so the fund managers could make a higher return for the money they have invested
Government of the people by the RICH for the benefit of the RICH
Nothing has changed much from day one except the numbers of the rich have reduced and the amount of the profits they hoover up has increased .
Jeff Bezos is treated like a god when in reality he is largely responsible for the collapse of US manufacturing and directly responsible for the drop in US retail employment
Walmart are in the same boat
Both Bezos & the Waltons have accumulated hundreds of millions from forcing millions out of work & onto social security.
Then because they are on social security they are forced to buy from the absolute cheapest source so even more money goes from your taxes to the social security recipient to Amazon & Walmart
The absolute greed of a few thousand is destroying the life of 350,000,000 and it is only a matter of time till you are one of them.
#24
cpurvis
cpurvis
One thing about it, if one decides that the grass is greener in some other country than it is in the USA, there is nothing keeping him here.
#25
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
Exactly... You don't see people flocking out of the country... But they're leaving California and New York in droves.One thing about it, if one decides that the grass is greener in some other country than it is in the USA, there is nothing keeping him here.
#26
B
bertsmobile1
Murdoch sold out his Aussie heritage to become a US citizen so he could rape & pillage in a much larger thus more profitable market but he is still in the top 10 by dollar value land owner in Australia.
So when things go pear shape for him over there he has a plan B, Ex president Trump has real estate all over the planet , including down here so he has plans B through to Z and probably quite a tidy nest egg in countries that do not have extradition treaties with the USA
B
bertsmobile1
SO you think they don't have a challet in France or Switzerland ( or both ) pus a villa or two on a Mediteranian island and probably a whole island in the Carabeen and possabily a castle or two in Scotland ?One thing about it, if one decides that the grass is greener in some other country than it is in the USA, there is nothing keeping him here.
Murdoch sold out his Aussie heritage to become a US citizen so he could rape & pillage in a much larger thus more profitable market but he is still in the top 10 by dollar value land owner in Australia.
So when things go pear shape for him over there he has a plan B, Ex president Trump has real estate all over the planet , including down here so he has plans B through to Z and probably quite a tidy nest egg in countries that do not have extradition treaties with the USA
#27
C
ccheatha
C
ccheatha
Where would the world be? My guess: we'd still be the 3rd rock from the sun.No internet
No porn industry
No Snapper mowers
No crappy cars and trucks
No TV's
No good music
No computers - which later lead to cell phones
No microwave ovens
many many more
#28
StarTech
StarTech
Until some government idiot lets loose the world's nuclear weapons then no one will ever need to worry again as we all be gone and may be even the planet.Where would the world be? My guess: we'd still be the 3rd rock from the sun.
#29
cpurvis
cpurvis
No, what I said was that no one is under any obligation to remain a US citizen or live in the USA if they don't like it and think there are better places to live.SO you think they don't have a challet in France or Switzerland ( or both ) pus a villa or two on a Mediteranian island and probably a whole island in the Carabeen and possabily a castle or two in Scotland ?
Murdoch sold out his Aussie heritage to become a US citizen so he could rape & pillage in a much larger thus more profitable market but he is still in the top 10 by dollar value land owner in Australia.
So when things go pear shape for him over there he has a plan B, Ex president Trump has real estate all over the planet , including down here so he has plans B through to Z and probably quite a tidy nest egg in countries that do not have extradition treaties with the USA
#30
S
slomo
S
slomo
And let me know if you need any help carrying your bags to the airport.No, what I said was that no one is under any obligation to remain a US citizen or live in the USA if they don't like it and think there are better places to live.
#31
C
ccheatha
C
ccheatha
So tell me: where were nuclear weapons created?Until some government idiot lets loose the world's nuclear weapons then no one will ever need to worry again as we all be gone and may be even the planet.
#32
StarTech
StarTech
In the USA but only because the German scientists defected before Hitler could get the bomb.
#33
cpurvis
If you're trying to place blame on the USA for the creation of nuclear weapons, you'd be right for the USA furnishing the place and funding for mostly-European scientists to finish the work they had already started.
That genie was going to get out of the bottle one way or another, whether the USA participated or not. The science behind fission and fusion isn't, relatively speaking, all that complicated.
cpurvis
Who's?So tell me: where were nuclear weapons created?
If you're trying to place blame on the USA for the creation of nuclear weapons, you'd be right for the USA furnishing the place and funding for mostly-European scientists to finish the work they had already started.
That genie was going to get out of the bottle one way or another, whether the USA participated or not. The science behind fission and fusion isn't, relatively speaking, all that complicated.
#34
C
ccheatha
C
ccheatha
So in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter where we'd be without the USA, correct?In the USA but only because the German scientists defected before Hitler could get the bomb.
#35
C
ccheatha
C
ccheatha
What do you mean, who's? Who's doesn't matter. My point (pertaining to the original question) was that since the first nuclear weapon was created/tested here in the US and its first use was by the US, for the original question, does it matter where we'd be without the USA; that's only given @StarTech mention of it. So am I trying to place blame on the USA for the creation of it? No. Maybe I'm wrong in assuming that StarTech was implying that if not for the USA, some other country would have already obliterated the world with the use of nuclear weapons.Who's?
If you're trying to place blame on the USA for the creation of nuclear weapons, you'd be right for the USA furnishing the place and funding for mostly-European scientists to finish the work they had already started.
That genie was going to get out of the bottle one way or another, whether the USA participated or not. The science behind fission and fusion isn't, relatively speaking, all that complicated.
#36
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
I have a feeling the threat of the U.S having nuclear weapons, as well as Israel possibly having them is keeping China & Russia wary.... although China also has us about right where they want us...
#37
C
ccheatha
C
ccheatha
Are you thinking one of them would have obliterated the world if the U.S. wasn't around? I guess we're just a mix of the world's peoples anyway, but still maybe you'd be right if that's what you were thinking.I have a feeling the threat of the U.S having nuclear weapons, as well as Israel possibly having them is keeping China & Russia wary.... although China also has us about right where they want us...
#38
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
I don't think they would obliterate it, but one country would have complete and total control of all the others...Are you thinking one of them would have obliterated the world if the U.S. wasn't around? I guess we're just a mix of the world's peoples anyway, but still maybe you'd be right if that's what you were thinking.
#39
cpurvis
United States
Russia
England
France
China
Israel
India
Pakistan
North Korea
and soon, Iran
It is not as if the USA created something that otherwise would never have been invented, because most of the people on that list created their own nuclear weapons programs without any help from the USA.
cpurvis
What do you mean, who's? Who's doesn't matter. My point (pertaining to the original question) was that since the first nuclear weapon was created/tested here in the US and its first use was by the US, for the original question, does it matter where we'd be without the USA; that's only given @StarTech mention of it. So am I trying to place blame on the USA for the creation of it? No. Maybe I'm wrong in assuming that StarTech was implying that if not for the USA, some other country would have already obliterated the world with the use of nuclear weapons.
Where were nuclear weapons created? In the minds of men, mostly non-Americans.So tell me: where were nuclear weapons created?
United States
Russia
England
France
China
Israel
India
Pakistan
North Korea
and soon, Iran
It is not as if the USA created something that otherwise would never have been invented, because most of the people on that list created their own nuclear weapons programs without any help from the USA.
#40
C
ccheatha
Again, I was trying to piece together StarTech's line of thinking. How things may have played out if the USA did not take the steps it did in WWII, we'll never know. I tend to agree with you though that SOMEONE would have created these weapons anyway, but it also tends to lend itself to the thought that in the grand scheme of things, the world might not be too terribly different without the USA. Just between you and me, I'm freakin happy there is one!
C
ccheatha
So the first nuclear weapon was tested in New Mexico, no? And the first actual use of a nuclear weapon was by the USA, no? Many things are created without any help from the USA - at least not directly. How much technology is stolen from other countries every year. Not that we don't do the sameWhere were nuclear weapons created? In the minds of men, mostly non-Americans.
United States
Russia
England
France
China
Israel
India
Pakistan
North Korea
and soon, Iran
It is not as if the USA created something that otherwise would never have been invented, because most of the people on that list created their own nuclear weapons programs without any help from the USA.
Again, I was trying to piece together StarTech's line of thinking. How things may have played out if the USA did not take the steps it did in WWII, we'll never know. I tend to agree with you though that SOMEONE would have created these weapons anyway, but it also tends to lend itself to the thought that in the grand scheme of things, the world might not be too terribly different without the USA. Just between you and me, I'm freakin happy there is one!
#41
B
bertsmobile1
The cost of making them is astronomical so to always have to keep making them so you have at least one more than your enemy plus some sort of bunker system and some sort of defence / intercept mechanism so you have to dedicate a massive amount of money every day to the arms race.
Both leaders realized it was sending their countries broke , the West just did not realize how broke the USSR actually was .
This is why China only has a small nuclear arsenal , just enough to be a threat to enough US / Korean / Japanese / German / French & even insignificant Australians to make sure no one will lob one at them . Chinese politicans are a lot smarter than Western politicans who like to play the bigger gun than you hand in diplomacy.
They used a far more powerful weapon, GREED to destroy their enemies , Ford can't make cars cause China can't supply the computer chips that the USA could make but Ford bought from China because they were 0.01¢ cheaper . Same story with everything electrical .
B
bertsmobile1
I have a feeling the threat of the U.S having nuclear weapons, as well as Israel possibly having them is keeping China & Russia wary.... although China also has us about right where they want us...
It was the nuclear arms race that was the catalyst for the collapse of the USSR.I have a feeling the threat of the U.S having nuclear weapons, as well as Israel possibly having them is keeping China & Russia wary.... although China also has us about right where they want us...
The cost of making them is astronomical so to always have to keep making them so you have at least one more than your enemy plus some sort of bunker system and some sort of defence / intercept mechanism so you have to dedicate a massive amount of money every day to the arms race.
Both leaders realized it was sending their countries broke , the West just did not realize how broke the USSR actually was .
This is why China only has a small nuclear arsenal , just enough to be a threat to enough US / Korean / Japanese / German / French & even insignificant Australians to make sure no one will lob one at them . Chinese politicans are a lot smarter than Western politicans who like to play the bigger gun than you hand in diplomacy.
They used a far more powerful weapon, GREED to destroy their enemies , Ford can't make cars cause China can't supply the computer chips that the USA could make but Ford bought from China because they were 0.01¢ cheaper . Same story with everything electrical .
#42
7394
7394
Much of this has long ago been predicted in a little black book.
#43
L
lefty2cox
L
lefty2cox
I like the simple pleasures...like butter in my a$$ and lollipops in my mouth.
Whoever invented porn... the Germans have taken it to another level. You can't unsee that stuff.
Whoever invented porn... the Germans have taken it to another level. You can't unsee that stuff.
#44
R
RolandW
R
RolandW
To be qualified to answer this question, you have to understand that the American state is not the same thing as America.
It's obvious that the world would be much poorer if not for the ambition and genius of American entrepreneurs. But it would be much better off without the American state, at least in its current incarnation.
It was a fantasy to believe that a written Constitution could ever contain it. The useless loudmouths in D.C., most of whom have never in their lives produced anything that people would voluntarily pay their own money for, do whatever they want – because general welfare and interstate commerce.
And the people put on their masks and obey.
It's obvious that the world would be much poorer if not for the ambition and genius of American entrepreneurs. But it would be much better off without the American state, at least in its current incarnation.
It was a fantasy to believe that a written Constitution could ever contain it. The useless loudmouths in D.C., most of whom have never in their lives produced anything that people would voluntarily pay their own money for, do whatever they want – because general welfare and interstate commerce.
And the people put on their masks and obey.
#45
H
Hal12
Probably speaking german.
H
Hal12
No internet
No porn industry
No Snapper mowers
No crappy cars and trucks
No TV's
No good music
No computers - which later lead to cell phones
No microwave ovens
many many more
Probably speaking german.
#46
S
SamB
S
SamB
Well,Ive always liked The Land Down Under,(even Vegemite!) Now I know I have good reason(s) to do so!! Thanks,Bert,for sharing those facts!No ignorant ilinformed people with a massive over inflated ideas about their own supremesy unwilling to believe that there are other people on the planet with a functioning brain and claiming they own everything while being too bone lazy to actually check anything except with other Americans .
1) Internet, well that is tricky because it was a world wide collaboration .
Americans will tell everyone that the internet evolved from ARPNET, but ARPNET was just a private email network and in reality it goes back to technologies the USA got from Germany as reptreations.
What makes the INTERNET the internet is TCP/IP and that came fro CERN in Switzerland
2) Porn was around in the Greek & Roman times, if not before and is clearly depicted in some of the pottery which for reasons of the "Fake" modesty is hidden in the basements of museums & universities for use by scholars only
IF you want some porn in literature search for the works of the Persian poet Suffi or perhaps the Kama Sutra
3) ?
4) The UK & soviets were making crappy vehicles long before the USAthey just don't pretend that they are the best on the planet.
5) TV was first introduced back in 1840 by Scottish & German scientists wanting to share the results of laboratory experiments with each other.
In 1926 an Australian back yard inventor broadcast the Melbourne cup ( horse race ) from Flemington Melbourne to Ballarat Victoria then lost interest and went into rocketry .
6) a matter of taste
7) again tricky one.
Most objective historians would put the origin at the Bletchly Park WWII research station.
Now the personal computer can definately be attributed to Apple .
8) an Australian invention .
Because the telephone system in Aust was originally government owned , every Australian was deemed to have equal rights to a telephone . ( never happened in the USA )
Because Australia is the same land masa as continental USA we had to be able to send telephone signals over massive distances .
But because of the geography & small population running wires was not an option so we perfected the use of microwave radio transmission for telephones which at a latter date sold to Bell Industries
At one time Aust had over 90% of the microwave patients world wide .
The technicians working on the towers noticed that the eggs in the nests of birds in & around the towers were all cooked .
The CSIRO ( government research facility ) investigated and invented the microwave oven.
Now at that time we had an unbelievably conservative government and part of that government policy was anything the government developed that had commercial potential to make a profit must be sold to private enterprise. No Australia company wanted it ( or could afford it ) so GE bought the technology & release the domestic microwave oven. ( same story with Rank Xeros & copiers )
And Cable TV was also an Australian invention ( developement would be more appropriate ) and again at one time he held over 80% of the world wide patients for the use of optical fibre for communications. The longest fibre was the Sydney Melbourne line and that was also the first one to send TV signals down a fibre cable thus inventing ( if you like ) cable TV and for the same reason as above the technology was again sold off.
Up until 2015 Australia had the largest optical fibre network on the planet and had the government appointed board members of the now privatised telephone company ( Telstra ) back in 2000 not vetoed the plan to take the fibre network to each house hold we would have had the worlds first all fibre network on the planet .
All the USA really is happens to be the largest single private market on the planet which means it benefits from the mass effect so any new technology introduced can get massive market penetration very quickly which results in massive profits which in turn causes massive product development very quickly as every Tom Dick & Harry attempts to catch the cash train .
Oh and the Wi-Fi you use to connect your computer, phone,TV etc to your fibre modem & the WWW, you guessed it another Aussie invention / development .
#47
C
catman606
C
catman606
I've always thought I would like to visit Australia, then I remember all the snakes they have. No thanks! Be nice to lay on the beach though.
#48
S
Stokdgs
S
Stokdgs
The word is hola'..You know they have green cards after ONE DAY being at our border right? They wait till nighttime and all the cameras are gone to bus them out. This happens every day non stop.
What about the covid illegals that don't go to a border crossing station? Guess all we can do now we are on Joe Biden's watch is say hi to your new neighbors. Or is it o'la?
We have parts of town in OKC where the businesses and shops are, well let's just say I feel like I need my passport to drive down certain parts of town. Feels like I crossed the border.
I don't mind them coming over. Just do it legally. There are no good jobs here anymore. Taxes everywhere and on everything you own. Some you pay taxes on multiple times. I don't see the draw to come here?????
#49
S
SamB
S
SamB
Australia does have some dangerous creatures,but then so does the more dangerous New York city! Personally,I'd feel safer with the snakes of Oz.I've always thought I would like to visit Australia, then I remember all the snakes they have. No thanks! Be nice to lay on the beach though.
#50
S
Stokdgs
S
Stokdgs
Intel, which is in the USA and were my neighbors in Folsom, California, makes chips... There must be a lot of political crapola that is also in the mix to probably create more of a "demand" so the price/s can be artificially raised ??When did everyone else start becoming first, used to be for Americans, that they came first, & then help other countries.
American can't make a tiny computer chip for these new vehicles. And our medicines should be made here too, & I'm sure sure other stuff should be made here in the USA as well.
.
#51
S
Stokdgs
S
Stokdgs
Probably the most dangerous city today is still Chicago.. Sad..Australia does have some dangerous creatures,but then so does the more dangerous New York city! Personally,I'd feel safer with the snakes of Oz.
#52
A
AdamE
A
AdamE
Al Gore STILL would've invented the internet! He's that good...No internet
No porn industry
No Snapper mowers
No crappy cars and trucks
No TV's
No good music
No computers - which later lead to cell phones
No microwave ovens
many many more
#53
Hammermechanicman
Hammermechanicman
?
#54
S
Sparkie
He developed it in the 1930's, but it was not until after WWII when a company took a chance, (they were having problems, seems no war meant no business, they sold mimeograph equipment to the US Government and the war was over.
With a 3 million dollar loan from the SBA Haloid Xerox is born and it is developed eventually to a leader, then a fall, then a regroup and they are huge again.
What made them was the concept of rental, like telephones. Now we own them, when I was a kid we did not. We all rented. The kicker was the TV Ad (I remember it). A little girl 6 or so dressed properly climbed onto a chair placed a picture she drew on the platen (glass plate) selected the number to print and pressed print. Mere seconds later a perfect copy emerges. Managers of every part of a company could see the usefulness for their needs.
But what is most interesting is they shopped it around and there were no takers. IBM did research and figured this: the machine would be in the $200 K cost and they could sell about 200 of them, and the only guy who would have it were CEO's of Fortune 200 comapnies. They had sufficient typist pools that could make new copies as needed. They passed. They not IBM came up with small personal computers and The Mouse, The Track ball, The GUI. They then came to the same concept that I B M came to and passed up on the idea they invented. Apple founders saw it and it was over.
below is a piece from wiki.
from Wikipedia
In December 1946, Battelle, Carlson, and Haloid signed the first agreement to license electrophotography for a commercial product. The $10,000 contract—representing ten percent of Haloid's total earnings from 1945—granted a nonexclusive right to make electophotography-based copying machines intended to make no more than twenty copies of an original. Both sides were tentative; Battelle was concerned by Haloid's relatively small size, and Haloid had concerns about electrophotography's viability.[32]
During this period, Battelle conducted most of the basic research into electrophotography, while Haloid concentrated on trying to make a commercial product out of the results. In 1948, Haloid's CEO, Joseph Wilson, convinced the U.S. Army Signal Corps to invest $100,000 in the technology, an amount that would double later. The Signal Corps was concerned about nuclear war. The traditional photographic techniques they used for reconnaissance would not function properly when exposed to the radiation from a nuclear attack; the film would fog, much as consumer photographic film can be fogged by an airport X-ray machine. The Signal Corps thought that electrophotography might be developed into a product that would be immune to such radiation. Through the 1950s, over half the money Battelle spent developing electrophotography came from government contracts.[33]
In 1947, Carlson was becoming worried that Battelle was not developing electrophotography quickly enough; his patent would expire in ten years. After meeting with Joe Wilson, Carlson accepted an offer to become a consultant to Haloid. He and his wife Dorris moved to the Rochester area, to be near the company's base of operations.
After years of trying to interest additional licensees in electrophotography, Battelle agreed to renegotiate with Haloid, making it the exclusive licensee for the invention (except for a few minor uses that Battelle wished to retain for itself)
.
S
Sparkie
I watched a documentary on Xerox a number of years ago. What we call a photostat was invented by an American and his work was was inspired by pub;ished works of a Hungarian physicist.No ignorant ilinformed people with a massive over inflated ideas about their own supremesy unwilling to believe that there are other people on the planet with a functioning brain and claiming they own everything while being too bone lazy to actually check anything except with other Americans .
1) Internet, well that is tricky because it was a world wide collaboration .
Americans will tell everyone that the internet evolved from ARPNET, but ARPNET was just a private email network and in reality it goes back to technologies the USA got from Germany as reptreations.
What makes the INTERNET the internet is TCP/IP and that came fro CERN in Switzerland
2) Porn was around in the Greek & Roman times, if not before and is clearly depicted in some of the pottery which for reasons of the "Fake" modesty is hidden in the basements of museums & universities for use by scholars only
IF you want some porn in literature search for the works of the Persian poet Suffi or perhaps the Kama Sutra
3) ?
4) The UK & soviets were making crappy vehicles long before the USAthey just don't pretend that they are the best on the planet.
5) TV was first introduced back in 1840 by Scottish & German scientists wanting to share the results of laboratory experiments with each other.
In 1926 an Australian back yard inventor broadcast the Melbourne cup ( horse race ) from Flemington Melbourne to Ballarat Victoria then lost interest and went into rocketry .
6) a matter of taste
7) again tricky one.
Most objective historians would put the origin at the Bletchly Park WWII research station.
Now the personal computer can definately be attributed to Apple .
8) an Australian invention .
Because the telephone system in Aust was originally government owned , every Australian was deemed to have equal rights to a telephone . ( never happened in the USA )
Because Australia is the same land masa as continental USA we had to be able to send telephone signals over massive distances .
But because of the geography & small population running wires was not an option so we perfected the use of microwave radio transmission for telephones which at a latter date sold to Bell Industries
At one time Aust had over 90% of the microwave patients world wide .
The technicians working on the towers noticed that the eggs in the nests of birds in & around the towers were all cooked .
The CSIRO ( government research facility ) investigated and invented the microwave oven.
Now at that time we had an unbelievably conservative government and part of that government policy was anything the government developed that had commercial potential to make a profit must be sold to private enterprise. No Australia company wanted it ( or could afford it ) so GE bought the technology & release the domestic microwave oven. ( same story with Rank Xeros & copiers )
And Cable TV was also an Australian invention ( developement would be more appropriate ) and again at one time he held over 80% of the world wide patients for the use of optical fibre for communications. The longest fibre was the Sydney Melbourne line and that was also the first one to send TV signals down a fibre cable thus inventing ( if you like ) cable TV and for the same reason as above the technology was again sold off.
Up until 2015 Australia had the largest optical fibre network on the planet and had the government appointed board members of the now privatised telephone company ( Telstra ) back in 2000 not vetoed the plan to take the fibre network to each house hold we would have had the worlds first all fibre network on the planet .
All the USA really is happens to be the largest single private market on the planet which means it benefits from the mass effect so any new technology introduced can get massive market penetration very quickly which results in massive profits which in turn causes massive product development very quickly as every Tom Dick & Harry attempts to catch the cash train .
Oh and the Wi-Fi you use to connect your computer, phone,TV etc to your fibre modem & the WWW, you guessed it another Aussie invention / development .
He developed it in the 1930's, but it was not until after WWII when a company took a chance, (they were having problems, seems no war meant no business, they sold mimeograph equipment to the US Government and the war was over.
With a 3 million dollar loan from the SBA Haloid Xerox is born and it is developed eventually to a leader, then a fall, then a regroup and they are huge again.
What made them was the concept of rental, like telephones. Now we own them, when I was a kid we did not. We all rented. The kicker was the TV Ad (I remember it). A little girl 6 or so dressed properly climbed onto a chair placed a picture she drew on the platen (glass plate) selected the number to print and pressed print. Mere seconds later a perfect copy emerges. Managers of every part of a company could see the usefulness for their needs.
But what is most interesting is they shopped it around and there were no takers. IBM did research and figured this: the machine would be in the $200 K cost and they could sell about 200 of them, and the only guy who would have it were CEO's of Fortune 200 comapnies. They had sufficient typist pools that could make new copies as needed. They passed. They not IBM came up with small personal computers and The Mouse, The Track ball, The GUI. They then came to the same concept that I B M came to and passed up on the idea they invented. Apple founders saw it and it was over.
below is a piece from wiki.
from Wikipedia
Haloid Company
The commercial breakthrough came when John Dessauer, chief of research at the Haloid Company, read an article about Carlson's invention. Haloid, a manufacturer of photographic paper, was looking for a way out of the shadow of its Rochester, New York, neighbor, Eastman Kodak. Through previous acquisitions, Haloid was already in the duplicating-machine business; Dessauer thought that electrophotography might allow Haloid to expand into a new field that Kodak did not dominate.[31]In December 1946, Battelle, Carlson, and Haloid signed the first agreement to license electrophotography for a commercial product. The $10,000 contract—representing ten percent of Haloid's total earnings from 1945—granted a nonexclusive right to make electophotography-based copying machines intended to make no more than twenty copies of an original. Both sides were tentative; Battelle was concerned by Haloid's relatively small size, and Haloid had concerns about electrophotography's viability.[32]
During this period, Battelle conducted most of the basic research into electrophotography, while Haloid concentrated on trying to make a commercial product out of the results. In 1948, Haloid's CEO, Joseph Wilson, convinced the U.S. Army Signal Corps to invest $100,000 in the technology, an amount that would double later. The Signal Corps was concerned about nuclear war. The traditional photographic techniques they used for reconnaissance would not function properly when exposed to the radiation from a nuclear attack; the film would fog, much as consumer photographic film can be fogged by an airport X-ray machine. The Signal Corps thought that electrophotography might be developed into a product that would be immune to such radiation. Through the 1950s, over half the money Battelle spent developing electrophotography came from government contracts.[33]
In 1947, Carlson was becoming worried that Battelle was not developing electrophotography quickly enough; his patent would expire in ten years. After meeting with Joe Wilson, Carlson accepted an offer to become a consultant to Haloid. He and his wife Dorris moved to the Rochester area, to be near the company's base of operations.
After years of trying to interest additional licensees in electrophotography, Battelle agreed to renegotiate with Haloid, making it the exclusive licensee for the invention (except for a few minor uses that Battelle wished to retain for itself)
.
#55
W
wolfey01
W
wolfey01
Funny, but I was under the impression that this was a LAWN MOWER FORUM, not a political discussion forum. Maybe it's opposite day or something? Or am I missing the point?
#56
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
Welcome to the front porch.Funny, but I was under the impression that this was a LAWN MOWER FORUM, not a political discussion forum. Maybe it's opposite day or something? Or am I missing the point?
#57
Hammermechanicman
Hammermechanicman
I was a service rep for Xerox for 40 years. Besides the copying machine xerox invented the telecopier (fax), ethernet, the PC it was called the Alto and the first computer to use a GUI, the laser printer, the GUI, the icon and the mouse, desktop publishing software, word processor, WYSIWYG, multi beam lasers, plus a whole bunch of other stuff. Too bad the idiots at the top were too stupid to know how to properly market it or patent it. The Apple Lisa computer was an almost exact copy of a prototype computer at the Xerox PARC ( palo alto research center) so much for protecting intellectual property.
#58
StarTech
StarTech
Or better known as the Lairs Bench... Boy some whoopers can be told here. Like I am from Torland where mighty Tor still rules...
#59
Hammermechanicman
Hammermechanicman
Torland, vacationed there once. ?
#60
B
bertsmobile1
A massive market to be exploited that has a single currency & language is a marketing dream.
So that allows products that have a marketing potential to be brought to the market quickly.
However the original infferance, that without the USA these things would not have happened is still there .
And that is the point I would argue against as it is fundamentially racist .
No peoples on the planet are any smarter ( although I often believe Australians are the stupidist ) than any other .
Then there is the question of what is "better"
The indiginous peoples had lived here for what is now thought to be longer than 100,000 years
During that time no river had become so posionious that it is toxic to the touch let alone drinking it .
No plant , animal , nor instinct had gone extinct,
The people suffered almost no life shortening diseases and lived to an average age of 70 ( contested by some ) with the oldest remains being dated at over 90 at the time of death.
They had everything they needed for living according to their culture worked for less than 3 hours a day on average and managed to avoid massive wars apart from a couple of warrior tribes from Tasmania & the Cape . Children were all looked after as were the elderly there was no poverty & no homeless , even the dissabled & mentally ill were looked after.
I have almost no factual knowledge of American natives but from the little I have heard, their life style was not much different
Our children could very well be the last humans to walk the planet , if the worst case the scientists have been talking about comes to pass .
And it looks very well like they could be correct as storms have been getting more violent & destructive each year, droughts are far more intense and floods substantially more severe.
Your Hurricanes are becoming more intense as are our cyclones .
Then there are the problems like Covid-19 that come ultimately from over population and because of crowded living style spread like wild fire and on the subject of wildfires, yours this year look to being eclipsing last years which were the worst on record.
So if better is having your kids kill themselves because some one did not like their face book post fast enough, or having your daughter lured to her death by a sexual pervert on a dating app, then perhaps we are in fact better .
If better is working 10 hours a day to make sure the roof over your head is secure and you won't end up living in the gutter when you get old then yes we are better.
DEcades ago when I had a marital crisis I had to revaluate my life and part of this was to look at everything and ask "will this improve my life " and 90% of the time the answer is no
Thus there is not a 72" oled TV sitting on the wall over the top of the 2000W 30 speaker home theatre, no 700 litre French door fridge with ice cub dispenser in the door gracing the kitchen etc etc etc
B
bertsmobile1
I can see where you are coming from and to an extent there is some truth in it.To be qualified to answer this question, you have to understand that the American state is not the same thing as America.
It's obvious that the world would be much poorer if not for the ambition and genius of American entrepreneurs. But it would be much better off without the American state, at least in its current incarnation.
It was a fantasy to believe that a written Constitution could ever contain it. The useless loudmouths in D.C., most of whom have never in their lives produced anything that people would voluntarily pay their own money for, do whatever they want – because general welfare and interstate commerce.
And the people put on their masks and obey.
A massive market to be exploited that has a single currency & language is a marketing dream.
So that allows products that have a marketing potential to be brought to the market quickly.
However the original infferance, that without the USA these things would not have happened is still there .
And that is the point I would argue against as it is fundamentially racist .
No peoples on the planet are any smarter ( although I often believe Australians are the stupidist ) than any other .
Then there is the question of what is "better"
The indiginous peoples had lived here for what is now thought to be longer than 100,000 years
During that time no river had become so posionious that it is toxic to the touch let alone drinking it .
No plant , animal , nor instinct had gone extinct,
The people suffered almost no life shortening diseases and lived to an average age of 70 ( contested by some ) with the oldest remains being dated at over 90 at the time of death.
They had everything they needed for living according to their culture worked for less than 3 hours a day on average and managed to avoid massive wars apart from a couple of warrior tribes from Tasmania & the Cape . Children were all looked after as were the elderly there was no poverty & no homeless , even the dissabled & mentally ill were looked after.
I have almost no factual knowledge of American natives but from the little I have heard, their life style was not much different
Our children could very well be the last humans to walk the planet , if the worst case the scientists have been talking about comes to pass .
And it looks very well like they could be correct as storms have been getting more violent & destructive each year, droughts are far more intense and floods substantially more severe.
Your Hurricanes are becoming more intense as are our cyclones .
Then there are the problems like Covid-19 that come ultimately from over population and because of crowded living style spread like wild fire and on the subject of wildfires, yours this year look to being eclipsing last years which were the worst on record.
So if better is having your kids kill themselves because some one did not like their face book post fast enough, or having your daughter lured to her death by a sexual pervert on a dating app, then perhaps we are in fact better .
If better is working 10 hours a day to make sure the roof over your head is secure and you won't end up living in the gutter when you get old then yes we are better.
DEcades ago when I had a marital crisis I had to revaluate my life and part of this was to look at everything and ask "will this improve my life " and 90% of the time the answer is no
Thus there is not a 72" oled TV sitting on the wall over the top of the 2000W 30 speaker home theatre, no 700 litre French door fridge with ice cub dispenser in the door gracing the kitchen etc etc etc
#61
B
bertsmobile1
Got a nice big carpet python living in the ceiling.
Only problem is I can not get her down to the basement where more mice are
B
bertsmobile1
Well the black fellas have been living here for 100,000 years with no hospitals, no ambulances & no vaccines and they seemed to manage the snakes .Australia does have some dangerous creatures,but then so does the more dangerous New York city! Personally,I'd feel safer with the snakes of Oz.
Got a nice big carpet python living in the ceiling.
Only problem is I can not get her down to the basement where more mice are
#62
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
shivered down my spine.......Well the black fellas have been living here for 100,000 years with no hospitals, no ambulances & no vaccines and they seemed to manage the snakes .
Got a nice big carpet python living in the ceiling.
Only problem is I can not get her down to the basement where more mice are
#63
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
I really don't why (especially in California) they're not managing wild land better, they've rarely used controlled burns to burn off accumulated debris from the forest floors, and people building homes right against a large slope that's covered with brush isn't very smart either. i think if people took time and kept shrubs and wild plants cut back and away from there property, by the looks of those extravagant homes they could pay a crew to clear a 30 foot wide fire lane around the property/home, fires would definitely be less destructive i think.. those steep slopes make it hard to fight fires as they add more the updraft and air movement and that increases speed. so it's a whole quarry of issues combining into one to make the fires much more agressive. of course it's easy for me to say as i'm not in their shoes.
here in east texas in 2011 we had a horrible drought that lasted from Autumn of 2010 and late summer 2012.. had bad fires around the area in 2011... people got off their butts and started cleaning up their property, neighbors helped neighbors who didn't have tractors to clear out old limbs, and ground clutter... fires still burned close by, by at a much less intensity and could be managed with a garden water hose if it got too close because of hardly any fuel on the forest floor around homes. only our tall east Texas pines with low limbs burnt up...
here in east texas in 2011 we had a horrible drought that lasted from Autumn of 2010 and late summer 2012.. had bad fires around the area in 2011... people got off their butts and started cleaning up their property, neighbors helped neighbors who didn't have tractors to clear out old limbs, and ground clutter... fires still burned close by, by at a much less intensity and could be managed with a garden water hose if it got too close because of hardly any fuel on the forest floor around homes. only our tall east Texas pines with low limbs burnt up...
#64
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Every type of forest requires a different type of management, which it looks like after the fires last season some in government are finally coming to grips with.
The black fellas knew this a least 80,000 years ago.
A house in a pine forest needs close to 50' of clear space or a water curtain because pine burns very fast & furious.
Down here it is all hardwoods and they are different again
Lots of photos of burned out cars sitting in clear streets with what looks like a puddle of water underneath.
It is not water it is the aluminium that used to be the engine.
So the engine needed to be above 800 deg C for quite a while to boil off the water & melt the alloy.
There is a good reason why we originally built houses with either a single sloped roof, single hip roof or strait pyramid roof.
But those with some money or weak minds see the houses you are talking about with complex fire trap roofs and think it is a sign of their advanced sofisitication to plonk one in a forest because it looks good .
And again while I do feel for those who get burned out a lot of it is self inflicted
The radient heat coming off a black butt forest fire can soften steel beams on bridges to the point of collapse from better than 100 ' way where as a pine fire will cause all of the paint to blister & burn and perhaps a bit of warping but the bridge will remain structurally intact.
It can boil your blood to the point it can no longer carry any oxygen from 100' away.
People have watched way too many Bruce Willis disaster movies and unfortunately it distorts their grasp on reality .
I have seen a 10,000 gallon concrete water tank boiling to the point we could no longer pump the water out of it
The black fellas knew this a least 80,000 years ago.
A house in a pine forest needs close to 50' of clear space or a water curtain because pine burns very fast & furious.
Down here it is all hardwoods and they are different again
Lots of photos of burned out cars sitting in clear streets with what looks like a puddle of water underneath.
It is not water it is the aluminium that used to be the engine.
So the engine needed to be above 800 deg C for quite a while to boil off the water & melt the alloy.
There is a good reason why we originally built houses with either a single sloped roof, single hip roof or strait pyramid roof.
But those with some money or weak minds see the houses you are talking about with complex fire trap roofs and think it is a sign of their advanced sofisitication to plonk one in a forest because it looks good .
And again while I do feel for those who get burned out a lot of it is self inflicted
The radient heat coming off a black butt forest fire can soften steel beams on bridges to the point of collapse from better than 100 ' way where as a pine fire will cause all of the paint to blister & burn and perhaps a bit of warping but the bridge will remain structurally intact.
It can boil your blood to the point it can no longer carry any oxygen from 100' away.
People have watched way too many Bruce Willis disaster movies and unfortunately it distorts their grasp on reality .
I have seen a 10,000 gallon concrete water tank boiling to the point we could no longer pump the water out of it
#65
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
Dang.... that's hot...I have seen a 10,000 gallon concrete water tank boiling to the point we could no longer pump the water out of it
#66
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
First time I had been to a fire front and first time I ran away from one.
People have little idea about heat and in particular the heat that comes off a fire front
Back in my teens we were changing from BTU to KW as the measurement of heat.
The fire department used to set up a 16' long booth at shows with a 3 meter board full of 1000W ( 1 kW) heater elements at the far end.
You know the ones that are wound around a cone shaped mount .
They would turn on 1 every meter and get people to walk as close as they could to it.
Amazing that even at 1 Kw/ meter few could actually walk all the way to the back.
Then they turned on 50 in one meter to make 1/2 Mw / meter and no one could get closer that 3 meters from it .
Once they had all 3 of the 1/2 Mw panels turned on people started to step back from the front .
Then they turned a full 100 on in the center meter panel to make it 1 Mw and people would pass out.
Finally and for only a few seconds they turned on all 3 panels at 1 Mw each , painted car wheels burst into flame, unpainted fence posts started to char & burn.
During this time they would play a standard 1/2" garden hose at the heater wall but the water boiled off way before it could get that far.
This was to convince people that once the fire was at your back fence it was time to water the roof and hide in your house because playing water onto the fire was not going to do anything.
When it was over they then played some footage of recient fires and gave commentry on the fire fronts some of which were in the gigga watt/ meter range.
And of course they reminded the people that the display was a short 3 meter fire front not a 20 mile fire front that the fire fighters have to deal with.
No one asked why they could not put out bushfires with hoses after that.
People have little idea about heat and in particular the heat that comes off a fire front
Back in my teens we were changing from BTU to KW as the measurement of heat.
The fire department used to set up a 16' long booth at shows with a 3 meter board full of 1000W ( 1 kW) heater elements at the far end.
You know the ones that are wound around a cone shaped mount .
They would turn on 1 every meter and get people to walk as close as they could to it.
Amazing that even at 1 Kw/ meter few could actually walk all the way to the back.
Then they turned on 50 in one meter to make 1/2 Mw / meter and no one could get closer that 3 meters from it .
Once they had all 3 of the 1/2 Mw panels turned on people started to step back from the front .
Then they turned a full 100 on in the center meter panel to make it 1 Mw and people would pass out.
Finally and for only a few seconds they turned on all 3 panels at 1 Mw each , painted car wheels burst into flame, unpainted fence posts started to char & burn.
During this time they would play a standard 1/2" garden hose at the heater wall but the water boiled off way before it could get that far.
This was to convince people that once the fire was at your back fence it was time to water the roof and hide in your house because playing water onto the fire was not going to do anything.
When it was over they then played some footage of recient fires and gave commentry on the fire fronts some of which were in the gigga watt/ meter range.
And of course they reminded the people that the display was a short 3 meter fire front not a 20 mile fire front that the fire fighters have to deal with.
No one asked why they could not put out bushfires with hoses after that.
#67
C
ccheatha
C
ccheatha
I think we all understand that the original question implied an answer as well. It's been interesting to see the responses, but the bottom line is this: the USA did not just materialize out of thin air. We're the good old melting pot, right? The good, the bad and all the in between is a make-up of places from all over this world. So why would the absence of the USA make that much of a difference in this world today, really? Maybe there's something to the central location of so many different cultures blending together to create the "good old American ingenuity", but don't you think that type of ingenuity would have occurred despite the location? Surely this country has had a major impact on the world, but if the country didn't exist, would its people (maybe residing elsewhere) have not been in a position to contribute and make the world what it is today?I can see where you are coming from and to an extent there is some truth in it.
A massive market to be exploited that has a single currency & language is a marketing dream.
So that allows products that have a marketing potential to be brought to the market quickly.
However the original infferance, that without the USA these things would not have happened is still there .
And that is the point I would argue against as it is fundamentially racist .
No peoples on the planet are any smarter ( although I often believe Australians are the stupidist ) than any other .
Then there is the question of what is "better"
The indiginous peoples had lived here for what is now thought to be longer than 100,000 years
During that time no river had become so posionious that it is toxic to the touch let alone drinking it .
No plant , animal , nor instinct had gone extinct,
The people suffered almost no life shortening diseases and lived to an average age of 70 ( contested by some ) with the oldest remains being dated at over 90 at the time of death.
They had everything they needed for living according to their culture worked for less than 3 hours a day on average and managed to avoid massive wars apart from a couple of warrior tribes from Tasmania & the Cape . Children were all looked after as were the elderly there was no poverty & no homeless , even the dissabled & mentally ill were looked after.
I have almost no factual knowledge of American natives but from the little I have heard, their life style was not much different
Our children could very well be the last humans to walk the planet , if the worst case the scientists have been talking about comes to pass .
And it looks very well like they could be correct as storms have been getting more violent & destructive each year, droughts are far more intense and floods substantially more severe.
Your Hurricanes are becoming more intense as are our cyclones .
Then there are the problems like Covid-19 that come ultimately from over population and because of crowded living style spread like wild fire and on the subject of wildfires, yours this year look to being eclipsing last years which were the worst on record.
So if better is having your kids kill themselves because some one did not like their face book post fast enough, or having your daughter lured to her death by a sexual pervert on a dating app, then perhaps we are in fact better .
If better is working 10 hours a day to make sure the roof over your head is secure and you won't end up living in the gutter when you get old then yes we are better.
DEcades ago when I had a marital crisis I had to revaluate my life and part of this was to look at everything and ask "will this improve my life " and 90% of the time the answer is no
Thus there is not a 72" oled TV sitting on the wall over the top of the 2000W 30 speaker home theatre, no 700 litre French door fridge with ice cub dispenser in the door gracing the kitchen etc etc etc
#68
A
arbee
A
arbee
Since you're not here for me to cave in your face, I'll have to limit my aggression to a simple double f#ck yourself.Total rubbish
All of the USA's military actions were either to protect the source of the raw materials it needs ( oil for example ) or because of the fear that the megga wealthy might have their "rights" to profit vastly from the under paid labour of others be challenged , thus the massive amount of money that went into anti communism / socialism properganda and wars .
The only case where one could say "freedom" was preserved by US actions is Korea and even then some would consider that Korea happened because of fear that US investments in rebuilding Japan would be under threat from the Chinese communist who were being supported by the Russian communist in repayment for the massive support with both men & materials the Russians got from the Chinese during WWII ( bet you were unaware of that )
I might note that despite the white governments best attempts to wipe them out, the Indigenous peoples of Australia have had freedom for over 80,000 years.
The communist people in Vietnam have quite a lot of freedom almost on par with most Western countries, the only read difference being that the Party Officials are profiting from the economy rather than the elite class ( Rockerfellas / Fords etc ) in Western economies .
Eventually totalitarian government will fail, look at what is happening in Brazil & Burma right now.
However what keeps totalitarian governments in power is support from external sources with a vested interest in benefiting from the regeime
The Talibahn are largely using Chinese weapons because China realized that they could become an ally of Afghanistan , thus not need to spend a fortune on border protection.
They can then access the vast amounts or rare earth resources to feed their manufacturing industry that is undermining the viability of manufacturing in the USA ( & the rest of the west ) plus allow the Afgans to ramp up opium production which will also find it's way into Western economies doing massive economic & social damage .
For China a win win win situation. The real loosers are Afgahn women but then again remember the West used to burn witches 150 year ago, women could not vote 75 years ago , most religions banned women from being church leaders and some still do so "freedom" is a some what relative concept .
The USA was in Afghanistan for the same reasons , to contain China by surrounding it with Western style democratic governments and of course to access the same rare earth minerals.
Russia was there for the same reason , border protection & minerals & the UK before them again for the minerals .
#69
Hammermechanicman
Hammermechanicman
Empires have risen and fallen for thousands of years. The US is just a blip on the world's timeline and every country has its history. Some good and some bad. When folks go country bashing they might want to check out the glass house thing.
#70
StarTech
But we have enough problems with just trying to survive the Covid outbreaks. I understand people wants their freedom back but we must be willing to work at stopping this dang virus even if it means inconveniences. We are going to heck in a hand basket if we don't buckle down and do what is necessary to stop it. Just wishing it away isn't working.
Every day here when I try getting parts they are harder and harder to get. If I hadn't built up an inventory before this happened I would be out of business by now. I can probably survive this year but the next isn't looking likely if things continue to get worst.
StarTech
Sound like my brother which I could just used the 12 ga with T shot on instead hitting him with a straw broom but afterwards I thought he just not worth going to prison over. Besides I didnt want to clean up the mess. I just moved far away and have not even spoken to him in the last 8 yrs.Since you're not here for me to cave in your face, I'll have to limit my aggression to a simple double f#ck yourself.
Finally someone is using their head. There is always someone wanting to take over when in fighting starts.Empires have risen and fallen for thousands of years. The US is just a blip on the world's timeline and every country has its history. Some good and some bad. When folks go country bashing they might want to check out the glass house thing.
But we have enough problems with just trying to survive the Covid outbreaks. I understand people wants their freedom back but we must be willing to work at stopping this dang virus even if it means inconveniences. We are going to heck in a hand basket if we don't buckle down and do what is necessary to stop it. Just wishing it away isn't working.
Every day here when I try getting parts they are harder and harder to get. If I hadn't built up an inventory before this happened I would be out of business by now. I can probably survive this year but the next isn't looking likely if things continue to get worst.
#71
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
When I lived closer to the city I used to go to a lot of public lectures on all sorts of things.
Nothing expands the mind more than listening to presentations that you know nothing about or even better ones that you disagree with.
Really cheap entertainment .
One such lecture was by a forensic accountant who looked at the rise & fall of empires based on the ratio of their military spending.
HE came up with a fairly tight range and prospered that when any empire exceeds this range they go into decline
The USA had been over the decline rate since mid Vietnam war days.
Don't know how accurate any of the numbers actually were but it was roughly the same ratio for England, Spain, Portugal , Turkey , France , Persia, Mongolia & of course both the USSR & the USA.
Well not long after the USSR went into rapid decline , the cold war armaments having sent them broke .
An interesting theory & from memory he was a Princeton Don .
The basic premise being that an empire ( or sphere of influence ) is only worth maintaining if the financial benefits outweigh the costs by around 4:1
Nothing expands the mind more than listening to presentations that you know nothing about or even better ones that you disagree with.
Really cheap entertainment .
One such lecture was by a forensic accountant who looked at the rise & fall of empires based on the ratio of their military spending.
HE came up with a fairly tight range and prospered that when any empire exceeds this range they go into decline
The USA had been over the decline rate since mid Vietnam war days.
Don't know how accurate any of the numbers actually were but it was roughly the same ratio for England, Spain, Portugal , Turkey , France , Persia, Mongolia & of course both the USSR & the USA.
Well not long after the USSR went into rapid decline , the cold war armaments having sent them broke .
An interesting theory & from memory he was a Princeton Don .
The basic premise being that an empire ( or sphere of influence ) is only worth maintaining if the financial benefits outweigh the costs by around 4:1
#73
S
slomo
S
slomo
Can I get my face caved on too? Don't want to miss out on all the fun.Since you're not here for me to cave in your face, I'll have to limit my aggression to a simple double f#ck yourself.
#74
S
slomo
S
slomo
My fav was the porn industry. No mention about this prestigious monumental wonderful world class business.
#75
B
bertsmobile1
People who feel the need to vent are just people with emotions that they are allowing to over ride their interlect so you stand back and allow them to cool off and have a think.
Those of us with a properly gained education in the sciences & engineering are always taught to question what we believe unless it can be proven & proven repeatidly .
I would expect arbee is either a veteran, current serving defence person or a close friend / relation of a service person who very well could have been injured or killed which is a tragic event And I honestly feel for him.
Foreign interventions are always politically motivated and the politics are generally based on economics . Humanities come way down the list .
If a Western power was interested in protecting the people in a foreign country then they would be supplying help to people who are rising against a tyrant, and Syria is the perfect example.
The people got pushed to the point that they can not take it any more & revolted .
Initally some of the Western powers provided backed the people then other countries backed the tyrant because it was in their financial interest so the West backed off and those seeking a better government got slaughtered .
In Iraq the US stood by till the Iraq government started to move the oil futures from the NY stock exchange to the Frankfurt stock exchange.
If oil futures shifted to Europe the value of the US dollar would drop like a stone because the Euro would suddenly become the default world currency .
Now by chance, an error in Western intellegence could not account for all of the weapons the West had sold / given to Iraq when they were at war with Iran, nor could they account for all of the weapons given the Iran when the Shar was the tyrant leader .
So the "weapons of mass destruction" myth was invented in the knowledge that the stuff the West had sold to both sides would be uncovered so the intervention would be justified on a humanitarian objective .
Unfortuneatly the intel was not good so no weapons were found because what had not been used had been sold .
The testiment to this is the US ( and Australia , cause we were there too ) had no plans about how to manage Iraq after Sadam was deposed other than to set up the oil ministry to protect US oil interests and shift all futures back to NY .
And I am not taking any moral high ground , we were there , lock step with the US and in our case the Prime Minister made the decision to go to war by himself, he did not even consult the defence minister or any military chief before he announced we were going to Iraq . Then there was our treatment of the Timorese & NG .
Free & fearless communication between people is the basic building block of a democracy and should never be sensored
B
bertsmobile1
Always worth while to communicate with people and get their opinions & ideas particularly if it contravines the ones you haveWow! Who thought that lawnmowers could stir up such controversy.?
People who feel the need to vent are just people with emotions that they are allowing to over ride their interlect so you stand back and allow them to cool off and have a think.
Those of us with a properly gained education in the sciences & engineering are always taught to question what we believe unless it can be proven & proven repeatidly .
I would expect arbee is either a veteran, current serving defence person or a close friend / relation of a service person who very well could have been injured or killed which is a tragic event And I honestly feel for him.
Foreign interventions are always politically motivated and the politics are generally based on economics . Humanities come way down the list .
If a Western power was interested in protecting the people in a foreign country then they would be supplying help to people who are rising against a tyrant, and Syria is the perfect example.
The people got pushed to the point that they can not take it any more & revolted .
Initally some of the Western powers provided backed the people then other countries backed the tyrant because it was in their financial interest so the West backed off and those seeking a better government got slaughtered .
In Iraq the US stood by till the Iraq government started to move the oil futures from the NY stock exchange to the Frankfurt stock exchange.
If oil futures shifted to Europe the value of the US dollar would drop like a stone because the Euro would suddenly become the default world currency .
Now by chance, an error in Western intellegence could not account for all of the weapons the West had sold / given to Iraq when they were at war with Iran, nor could they account for all of the weapons given the Iran when the Shar was the tyrant leader .
So the "weapons of mass destruction" myth was invented in the knowledge that the stuff the West had sold to both sides would be uncovered so the intervention would be justified on a humanitarian objective .
Unfortuneatly the intel was not good so no weapons were found because what had not been used had been sold .
The testiment to this is the US ( and Australia , cause we were there too ) had no plans about how to manage Iraq after Sadam was deposed other than to set up the oil ministry to protect US oil interests and shift all futures back to NY .
And I am not taking any moral high ground , we were there , lock step with the US and in our case the Prime Minister made the decision to go to war by himself, he did not even consult the defence minister or any military chief before he announced we were going to Iraq . Then there was our treatment of the Timorese & NG .
Free & fearless communication between people is the basic building block of a democracy and should never be sensored
#76
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
the person who doesn't listen to other points of view is i don't know what.... I listened to all sides, considered and made my mind up on what I think was the best track for our country to go on and voted for people who have the same line of thought.
#77
R
RolandW
R
RolandW
Politics is the worst way ever invented to make decisions. America became a great place because people were once free to do whatever they wanted so long as they didn't hurt anybody else.
Now, any time there's a decision to be made, we have to vote on it and then force the result on everybody. Or worse yet, vote for a gang of lying, thieving sociopaths who then in turn vote on it and force the result on everybody. This guarantees never-ending conflict, which is exactly what the political class wants. No amount of happy talk about tolerance and listening to opposing views will fix it. In the end, somebody will be forced to do something they didn't want to do, or not do something that they did want to do, and they will be mad as hell.
The only way to restore peace and prosperity is to tell politicians to shut up and mind their own business. Ignore them except to laugh at them. Then return to a paradigm where you pick what you want, I pick what I want, and we pay for it ourselves. When was the last time you saw an argument in the dairy aisle over whole vs. skim vs. two percent?
Now, any time there's a decision to be made, we have to vote on it and then force the result on everybody. Or worse yet, vote for a gang of lying, thieving sociopaths who then in turn vote on it and force the result on everybody. This guarantees never-ending conflict, which is exactly what the political class wants. No amount of happy talk about tolerance and listening to opposing views will fix it. In the end, somebody will be forced to do something they didn't want to do, or not do something that they did want to do, and they will be mad as hell.
The only way to restore peace and prosperity is to tell politicians to shut up and mind their own business. Ignore them except to laugh at them. Then return to a paradigm where you pick what you want, I pick what I want, and we pay for it ourselves. When was the last time you saw an argument in the dairy aisle over whole vs. skim vs. two percent?
#78
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
I'm telling you... More Personal Liberty...... You do what you want as long as you are not impacting/hurting the lives and or livelihoods of others.Politics is the worst way ever invented to make decisions. America became a great place because people were once free to do whatever they wanted so long as they didn't hurt anybody else.
Now, any time there's a decision to be made, we have to vote on it and then force the result on everybody. Or worse yet, vote for a gang of lying, thieving sociopaths who then in turn vote on it and force the result on everybody. This guarantees never-ending conflict, which is exactly what the political class wants. No amount of happy talk about tolerance and listening to opposing views will fix it. In the end, somebody will be forced to do something they didn't want to do, or not do something that they did want to do, and they will be mad as hell.
The only way to restore peace and prosperity is to tell politicians to shut up and mind their own business. Ignore them except to laugh at them. Then return to a paradigm where you pick what you want, I pick what I want, and we pay for it ourselves. When was the last time you saw an argument in the dairy aisle over whole vs. skim vs. two percent?
#79
S
slomo
S
slomo
How about the porn industry?
You guys know, in the USA, the porn industry made the VCR THE standard format for recording back in the day? Porn industry said VCR. That killed off the Beta machines from Sony in the standardization race. THAT is how we all had VCR's in our houses.
You guys know, in the USA, the porn industry made the VCR THE standard format for recording back in the day? Porn industry said VCR. That killed off the Beta machines from Sony in the standardization race. THAT is how we all had VCR's in our houses.
#80
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Vote for some one else and convince enough of your friends to do the same.
Minor parties can never form a government but if they can get 1% or 2% of the vote then that can & dose cause the major parties to change policy.
Switzerland is the only Western government that has true democracy and from memory they have not been involved in a war for near 200 years.
What we tend to forget is democracy was invented to subjucate the poor & protect the property of the rich
Minor parties can never form a government but if they can get 1% or 2% of the vote then that can & dose cause the major parties to change policy.
Switzerland is the only Western government that has true democracy and from memory they have not been involved in a war for near 200 years.
What we tend to forget is democracy was invented to subjucate the poor & protect the property of the rich
#81
M
marionr3
M
marionr3
The part you left out was that the Bezos, and the Waltons, and more Don't pay taxes to the country which gave them their wealth, which is why those costs are so inflated. The government is running off of borrowed money, has been since Nixon. Blew up under Reagan and no President (Republican or Democrat) has ever come clean about the long term ramifications for the expense of Government without the Responsibility of paying for those Freedoms. Paying taxes is as patriotic as waving a flag. Check out the Whiskey and Shay's Rebellion. You want a Government to protect your freedoms, it has to have money to run.
#82
Hammermechanicman
Hammermechanicman
There is a reason the founding fathers referred to the new country's system of government as the grand experiment of a democratic republic. 250 years is about the average lifespan of a government like this before it collapses into a single party unitary state. china, russia, cuba as examples. Or a military coup that results in a dictatorship. Sooner or later ALL governments suffer from corruption. Everyone around the world loves their "freedom" but remember that as a nation if the majority of the population can't tell the the politicians/rulers "no" or use a voting system to change the law makers you are not a citizen of a republic but a subject.
Have a nice day.
If it is allowed.....
Have a nice day.
If it is allowed.....
#83
B
bertsmobile1
Cultures that have true collectivism and no actual leaders survive for a very long time & this includes things like land .
As previously mentioned your native inhabitants had a culture that went back thousands of years and our natives have been here for over 100,000 years .
They have no kings, queens or presidents, just a group of tribal elders who have the wisedom of age .
No property ownership because they see them selves as the custodians of the land that needs to be passed on in a pristine manner to the following generations.
Climate catastrophies might just send us back to that situation .
Professional leaders are the problem, be they political or religious or regal or dictators.
Down side is the lack of technological advancement particularly in medacine without which I would have died when I was 8 .
But is the world a better place for the 61 extra years I have been alive ?
Probably not.
Without greed we would never have survived but with almost no personal property to be greedy about that leaves you with nothing but food & we know what excess eating does long term.
And Marion3 . yes 100% correct .
The USA is broke & has been since the Vietnam war when the Gold Standard was dropped & the US currency floated because the government could not afford the gold required to back the massive amount of dollars they were printing to finance Vietnam .
The interesting thing is both China & Russia are building up their gold reserves .
China's gold reserves are rising at the highest rate of any country on the planet and they are now the biggest producer of gold plus are buying gold mines at a rate of knotts ( one of the disputes between China & Aust is the government is veetoing their purchases of Aust mines )
China also holds more US government debt than any other single country except Japan .
So all this posturing about islands in the South China Sea and trade wars is just that.
Something for the experts to flap their gums about and sound like they know what is going on.
China saw Vietnam send the USA broke so they will never declair a war anywhere that could cause a major power to intervein.
They are going to simply buy an empire financed by the greed of the western companies ( and general populations )
Some thing to think about when you next open your wallet.
How much is that cheap ??????? really going to cost ?
B
bertsmobile1
IT is all about possesion & personal wealth.There is a reason the founding fathers referred to the new country's system of government as the grand experiment of a democratic republic. 250 years is about the average lifespan of a government like this before it collapses into a single party unitary state. china, russia, cuba as examples. Or a military coup that results in a dictatorship. Sooner or later ALL governments suffer from corruption. Everyone around the world loves their "freedom" but remember that as a nation if the majority of the population can't tell the the politicians/rulers "no" or use a voting system to change the law makers you are not a citizen of a republic but a subject.
Have a nice day.
If it is allowed.....
Cultures that have true collectivism and no actual leaders survive for a very long time & this includes things like land .
As previously mentioned your native inhabitants had a culture that went back thousands of years and our natives have been here for over 100,000 years .
They have no kings, queens or presidents, just a group of tribal elders who have the wisedom of age .
No property ownership because they see them selves as the custodians of the land that needs to be passed on in a pristine manner to the following generations.
Climate catastrophies might just send us back to that situation .
Professional leaders are the problem, be they political or religious or regal or dictators.
Down side is the lack of technological advancement particularly in medacine without which I would have died when I was 8 .
But is the world a better place for the 61 extra years I have been alive ?
Probably not.
Without greed we would never have survived but with almost no personal property to be greedy about that leaves you with nothing but food & we know what excess eating does long term.
And Marion3 . yes 100% correct .
The USA is broke & has been since the Vietnam war when the Gold Standard was dropped & the US currency floated because the government could not afford the gold required to back the massive amount of dollars they were printing to finance Vietnam .
The interesting thing is both China & Russia are building up their gold reserves .
China's gold reserves are rising at the highest rate of any country on the planet and they are now the biggest producer of gold plus are buying gold mines at a rate of knotts ( one of the disputes between China & Aust is the government is veetoing their purchases of Aust mines )
China also holds more US government debt than any other single country except Japan .
So all this posturing about islands in the South China Sea and trade wars is just that.
Something for the experts to flap their gums about and sound like they know what is going on.
China saw Vietnam send the USA broke so they will never declair a war anywhere that could cause a major power to intervein.
They are going to simply buy an empire financed by the greed of the western companies ( and general populations )
Some thing to think about when you next open your wallet.
How much is that cheap ??????? really going to cost ?
#84
Hammermechanicman
Hammermechanicman
Unless we nuke ourselves out of exisrance the world will go on. There will always be wars and rumors of wars. The poor will always be with us. We will always have the haves and the have nots. When the rest of the world rejoices when the USA collapses and it no longer has large efficent farms that export much of the grain many countries depend on. When the idiots mandated 10% ethanor in gasoline so much corn was diverted from export to mexico that it caused a national food shortage to the point people were starving. Other countries with large tilleable land masses will step up and fill the void but it would take a couple years. Whenever there is a natural disaster around the world other countries will step in within days with a massive complex airlift system and provide huge amounts of free relief supplies. Although fueled by political reasons the USA provides more financial assistance to many countries than any other country. You would assume those countries will change for the better without US involvement or money. Yup as soon as the US is gone the better off the world will be.
#85
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
most of the time we are being told that we aren't great by millionaire youtuber's who make videos for a LIVING.
#86
Hammermechanicman
Hammermechanicman
Or the oppressed telling us how bad they have it with their $200 shoes and $1000 Iphone.most of the time we are being told that we aren't great by millionaire youtuber's who make videos for a LIVING.
#87
S
SamB
S
SamB
With all due respect to a very respected poster,the USA is NOT a Democracy,we are a Republic. We,the people are judged to be not capable of thinking for ourselves,so we have voted for and elected officials to do that for us. A true democracy would let the people have their say.Vote for some one else and convince enough of your friends to do the same.
Minor parties can never form a government but if they can get 1% or 2% of the vote then that can & dose cause the major parties to change policy.
Switzerland is the only Western government that has true democracy and from memory they have not been involved in a war for near 200 years.
What we tend to forget is democracy was invented to subjucate the poor & protect the property of the rich
#88
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Apart from some tribal cultures and Switzerland there are no Democracies on the planet.
Then comes Democratically Elected Responsible Governments where the elected member is bound to vote according to the wishes of a majority of their constituents
Then there is what most are which is an Unrepresentative Democratically Elected Government where the elected member can vote as they see fit .
The problem is when the elected members club together and formed parties for their own vested interests.
As for being "too stupid" we often forget that universal compulsory education really only started after WWI .
Prior to that only the wealthy had formal education.
The only way for the working class ( or lower) to get educated was to either join a religious order or be apprenticed to a tradesperson both of which provided a very limited & often quite perverted minimal education based around their occupational needs .
The monks you see depicted transcribing old text in monastic libraries could not read , they were simply coping what they saw on one page to another .
However the WWW will over time change the way government works but not necessarily for the better.
IF popular vote was used for governance then the USA would not have any Covid vaccines because it was "fake news" and "no worse than the flu".
The army would have rounded up every non European looking person in the USA and trucked them to the Mexican border .
People do not want to think.
It is a case of being too lazy rather than too stupid , and those who are too lazy to think are easily lead and the perfect example of that is the current anti- vax movement.
Most of the deciples of anti-vax are not stupid, they are well educated , too lazy to research the available data so just blindly follow the opinions of some one else .
If you had government by popular vote the USA would probably dropped another dozen or so A bombs to sort out Japan well & good, then the same on Korea & perhaps even in Vietnam.
Could not do it in the Middle East because it would be difficult to extract the oil that was desperately needed to fuel the massive industrial growth of the 50's & 60's.
Down here we would have hunted down & killed every indiginious inhabitant, plus all the dingos, kangaroos & koalas chopped down every tree that could be sold overseas ( Most of the timber sleepers used in the USA came from OZ ) etc etc etc .
Then comes Democratically Elected Responsible Governments where the elected member is bound to vote according to the wishes of a majority of their constituents
Then there is what most are which is an Unrepresentative Democratically Elected Government where the elected member can vote as they see fit .
The problem is when the elected members club together and formed parties for their own vested interests.
As for being "too stupid" we often forget that universal compulsory education really only started after WWI .
Prior to that only the wealthy had formal education.
The only way for the working class ( or lower) to get educated was to either join a religious order or be apprenticed to a tradesperson both of which provided a very limited & often quite perverted minimal education based around their occupational needs .
The monks you see depicted transcribing old text in monastic libraries could not read , they were simply coping what they saw on one page to another .
However the WWW will over time change the way government works but not necessarily for the better.
IF popular vote was used for governance then the USA would not have any Covid vaccines because it was "fake news" and "no worse than the flu".
The army would have rounded up every non European looking person in the USA and trucked them to the Mexican border .
People do not want to think.
It is a case of being too lazy rather than too stupid , and those who are too lazy to think are easily lead and the perfect example of that is the current anti- vax movement.
Most of the deciples of anti-vax are not stupid, they are well educated , too lazy to research the available data so just blindly follow the opinions of some one else .
If you had government by popular vote the USA would probably dropped another dozen or so A bombs to sort out Japan well & good, then the same on Korea & perhaps even in Vietnam.
Could not do it in the Middle East because it would be difficult to extract the oil that was desperately needed to fuel the massive industrial growth of the 50's & 60's.
Down here we would have hunted down & killed every indiginious inhabitant, plus all the dingos, kangaroos & koalas chopped down every tree that could be sold overseas ( Most of the timber sleepers used in the USA came from OZ ) etc etc etc .
#89
Scrubcadet10
i'm a nit picker......
Scrubcadet10
*Constitutional Republic....With all due respect to a very respected poster,the USA is NOT a Democracy,we are a Republic. We,the people are judged to be not capable of thinking for ourselves,so we have voted for and elected officials to do that for us. A true democracy would let the people have their say.
i'm a nit picker......
#90
7394
7394
SamB, of course a rigged election did change all of that..
#91
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
From where I sit just about all US elections seemed very much rigged as both sides do their best to make it difficult for the opposition supporters to vote.
We have compulsory voting down here and have had so from day one of federating the individual states + an electorial commission that pretends to be independent of the government to set electorate boundries , run the elections & maintain the voters roll .
The commission is of course appointed by the government of the day so does suffer the same appointment bias as your High Court does but by and large they do a reasonable job of keeping the elections fair .
We have compulsory voting down here and have had so from day one of federating the individual states + an electorial commission that pretends to be independent of the government to set electorate boundries , run the elections & maintain the voters roll .
The commission is of course appointed by the government of the day so does suffer the same appointment bias as your High Court does but by and large they do a reasonable job of keeping the elections fair .
#92
C
catman606
What exactly does "compulsory voting" mean? You have to vote for some one? There are certain people here that don't think you need an ID to vote. You Aussies have ID's to vote?
C
catman606
From where I sit just about all US elections seemed very much rigged as both sides do their best to make it difficult for the opposition supporters to vote.
We have compulsory voting down here and have had so from day one of federating the individual states + an electorial commission that pretends to be independent of the government to set electorate boundries , run the elections & maintain the voters roll .
The commission is of course appointed by the government of the day so does suffer the same appointment bias as your High Court does but by and large they do a reasonable job of keeping the elections fair .
What exactly does "compulsory voting" mean? You have to vote for some one? There are certain people here that don't think you need an ID to vote. You Aussies have ID's to vote?
#94
C
ccheatha
C
ccheatha
Yes, the election is ALWAYS rigged... if your party lost. When your party wins, it's TOTALLY fair!From where I sit just about all US elections seemed very much rigged as both sides do their best to make it difficult for the opposition supporters to vote.
We have compulsory voting down here and have had so from day one of federating the individual states + an electorial commission that pretends to be independent of the government to set electorate boundries , run the elections & maintain the voters roll .
The commission is of course appointed by the government of the day so does suffer the same appointment bias as your High Court does but by and large they do a reasonable job of keeping the elections fair .
#95
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
I have only voted for a major party once in the past 40 years and that was because they promised fiber to the fence broadband
They got in but what we got is the worst inernet / phone system on the planet so that was a waste
They got in but what we got is the worst inernet / phone system on the planet so that was a waste