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What's wrong with my Honda Lawnmower? Almost pulled my arm off! Repair? New mower?

#1

MowerMark

MowerMark

This wonderful Honda Lawnmower has been reliable. Occasionally there's initial white exhaust, but it always starts with two pulls. Last oil change was three years ago, last spark plug change six years ago. The mower is used 0-2x/week on 1500 sq. ft. of lawn.

Today half of the lawn was mowed, then emptied the bag. Tried restarting the mower and OUCH. The cord pulled back about halfway during the pull. Never has done this before. Pulled again once, and it would not start. Pulled again and the cord met with extreme resistance halfway through the pull again. I gave up and left the section not done.

What would you now do? Seems it's better to buy a new mower than to endure taking it in for repair. I do have replacement oil and a new spark plug.

If a new mower is indicated, which one to get? California will stop selling gas mowers in the future, but it's difficult to imagine mowing with a long extension cord.


#2

kbowley

kbowley

Hard to diag via text. However, my guess is the either the plastic overhead cam broke or the nylon timing belt broke. remove the valve cover and have a peak. It is quite easy to remove the cover.


#3

S

SeniorCitizen

Remove the spark plug and check the spark timing with compression simultaneously . A helper to pull the rope .


#4

Tiger Small Engine

Tiger Small Engine

MowerMark said:
This wonderful Honda Lawnmower has been reliable. Occasionally there's initial white exhaust, but it always starts with two pulls. Last oil change was three years ago, last spark plug change six years ago. The mower is used 0-2x/week on 1500 sq. ft. of lawn.

Today half of the lawn was mowed, then emptied the bag. Tried restarting the mower and OUCH. The cord pulled back about halfway during the pull. Never has done this before. Pulled again once, and it would not start. Pulled again and the cord met with extreme resistance halfway through the pull again. I gave up and left the section not done.

What would you now do? Seems it's better to buy a new mower than to endure taking it in for repair. I do have replacement oil and a new spark plug.

If a new mower is indicated, which one to get? California will stop selling gas mowers in the future, but it's difficult to imagine mowing with a long extension cord.
Click to expand...


Remove the spark plug and see how it feels while pulling the rope.
If the cam or timing belt broke, there will be no compression.
Removing the valve cover on a Honda requires a heat gun, small pry tool, and patience. Uses RTV sealant, not gasket.
Did you hit something? A recoil rope pulling back hard when trying to start is often a sheared flywheel key?
If you live in California, now is the time to buy a real lawnmower with an engine. Fix your Honda. They are solid machines.


#5

kbowley

kbowley

Tiger Small Engine said:
Remove the spark plug and see how it feels while pulling the rope.
If the cam or timing belt broke, there will be no compression.
Removing the valve cover on a Honda requires a heat gun, small pry tool, and patience. Uses RTV sealant, not gasket.
Did you hit something? A recoil rope pulling back hard when trying to start is often a sheared flywheel key?
If you live in California, now is the time to buy a real lawnmower with an engine. Fix your Honda. They are solid machines.
Click to expand...
If both valves are closed there will be compression if the belt broke. But I agree that the flywheel may have slipped if something was hit solid. Hopefully that's the problem but he didnt mention a blade strike so I doubt it. If that was the case you would not have abnormal resistance when pulling it over which leads me to the mylar cam belt. Try removing the plug and pulling it over, it will likely pull without any resistance. It is not hard to take the valve cover off. if it is RTV simply tap a very small screwdriver into the mating surface and gently pry it off. I have seen many of those GCV's cam belts break. If you are not comfortable taking the cover off, bring to a shop and have it diagnosed.


#6

MowerMark

MowerMark

No blade strike. Spark plug looks good. Picture taken. Replaced plug--->. still won't start. Two local repair shops not answering the phone. This mower its at least 15 years old and I'm not skilled enough to repair it myself. Some of your repair troubleshooting is like a foreign language!!

Thinking of getting a battery-operated self-propelled mower, such as

• Ryobi 40V Brushless 20 inch with 6.0 Ah Battery and Charger. ($429)
• Greenworks 40V. 21" with 5.0 Ah battery & charger ($359)
• EGO Power. 21". 56 V. 5.0Ah
• Greenworks 48V. 17". 4.0 Ah. ($239)

Any comments or suggestions?


#7

H

hlw49

Broken compression release.


#8

MowerMark

MowerMark

hlw49 said:
Broken compression release.
Click to expand...

Is it cost-effective to have a "compression release" repaired on this old mower?


#9

kbowley

kbowley

Not on a 15 yr. old Honda. The engine must be fully disassembled. Tons of good used ones for sale on Criag's list and Facebook marketplace.


#10

StarTech

StarTech

kbowley said:
Not on a 15 yr. old Honda. The engine must be fully disassembled. Tons of good used ones for sale on Criag's list and Facebook marketplace.
Click to expand...
First depends on the overall condition. Some are ragged out and other are in very good condition.

It also depends on the engine. Many Honda engines on walk behinds the camshaft pulley (which has the ACR on it) can be remove without full disassembly but engine must removed from the mower deck. The camshaft on the GCV 160 and 190 can be removed once the rocker cover is remove (which is pain unless the cover is sheared off). It is when the timing belt is damage that the engine must fully disassemble.

Also the instructions on checking the crankshaft to cam timing is in the following image.
1712311329860.png


#11

Tiger Small Engine

Tiger Small Engine

MowerMark said:
No blade strike. Spark plug looks good. Picture taken. Replaced plug--->. still won't start. Two local repair shops not answering the phone. This mower its at least 15 years old and I'm not skilled enough to repair it myself. Some of your repair troubleshooting is like a foreign language!!

Thinking of getting a battery-operated self-propelled mower, such as

• Ryobi 40V Brushless 20 inch with 6.0 Ah Battery and Charger. ($429)
• Greenworks 40V. 21" with 5.0 Ah battery & charger ($359)
• EGO Power. 21". 56 V. 5.0Ah
• Greenworks 48V. 17". 4.0 Ah. ($239)

Any comments or suggestions?
Click to expand...
I am not a battery supporter by any means, however, if you are mowing 1500 square feet, it will work fine. A quarter of an acre (normal size city lot, is about 10,500 square feet. You could get a couple of pet rabbits to keep your yard down it is so small.


#12

G

GearHead36

Tiger Small Engine said:
I am not a battery supporter by any means, however, if you are mowing 1500 square feet, it will work fine. A quarter of an acre (normal size city lot, is about 10,500 square feet. You could get a couple of pet rabbits to keep your yard down it is so small.
Click to expand...
Same here. I almost always prefer and recommend gas equipment. But for a lawn this size, they could even use a reel mower. No gas AND no battery.


#13

G

gearz

Honda's MASSIVE mower recall affecting a whopping 400,000 mowers




#14

MowerMark

MowerMark

gearz said:
Honda's MASSIVE mower recall affecting a whopping 400,000 mowers


Click to expand...

Does this effect my model?


#15

G

gearz

You will need to look up the model and serial number of the lawnmower. Just click the Honda link. Look at the video and it will show you where the numbers are.



#16

MowerMark

MowerMark

Oh my. I pushed the mower from the front yard to the backyard. Tried starting it again - - - no go. I then went to roll the mower into the shed and look what was left on the walkway. The blades. Turned the mower on its side and took a picture of the shaft from which the blades were attached. I could not find the bolt head or any other hardware oin the b ricks (other than the blades). There's a groove channel on both the shaft and the blades, like there might be a piece of metal which went into the channels.

1. Would the blades breaking off cause the mower not to start?
2. What caused this?
3. Is this breakage entirely a different issue than the failure of the motor to start?
4. Given today's new finding, is this mower still worth repairing?

Attachments







#17

MowerMark

MowerMark

gearz said:
Honda's MASSIVE mower recall affecting a whopping 400,000 mowers


Click to expand...

My model is. HRR2167VKA. I don't see that on the recall website. Do you?


#18

G

gearz

You probably bent the crankshaft. Your not in the recall. You would have to start taking things apart and looking into internal problems. I wouldn't buy a new Honda seeing there getting out of the lawnmower business. Good luck


#19

MowerMark

MowerMark

Excellent point re: Honda discontinuing mowers.
I'm not skilled in mechanical stuff. I shall try the EGO 21" battery mower since there's <1,500 sq. ft.

Can you make these two problems into a unified problem, viz the pull-back of the cord AND the blades coming off?


#20

H

hlw49

yes it can they put light flywheels Then the blades acts as a flywheel.


#21

MowerMark

MowerMark

hlw49 said:
yes it can they put light flywheels Then the blades acts as a flywheel.
Click to expand...


Sorry, don't understand. Please state your post a different way. Are you explaining how these two problems are related?


#22

StarTech

StarTech

Otherwords they can use either a heavy or light weight flywheel. When a light weight flywheel is use then the blade becomes part of the flywheel needed weight. Engines with light weight are a bear to start without the blade being attached.


#23

T

tadawson

Looks simply like the bolt fell out, and since (as others note), the blade assembly acts as a flywheel, it may be a cause of the no-start, or a symptom. In any case, it looks like you should be able to reattach it by replacing the one bolt, so it would seem that that would be a cheap and easy test.

If you decide to replace, and since you seem to keep your equipment a long time, don't forget to consider the finite life of batteries on electrics, and due to thier proprietary nature, the relatively short period of time durimg which replacement batts are available.


#24

MowerMark

MowerMark

tadawson said:
Looks simply like the bolt fell out, and since (as others note), the blade assembly acts as a flywheel, it may be a cause of the no-start, or a symptom. In any case, it looks like you should be able to reattach it by replacing the one bolt, so it would seem that that would be a cheap and easy test.

If you decide to replace, and since you seem to keep your equipment a long time, don't forget to consider the finite life of batteries on electrics, and due to thier proprietary nature, the relatively short period of time durimg which replacement batts are available.
Click to expand...
I'm not skilled enough to do this. Will find someone.

In the meantime, will set up an EGO battery-operated unit, since it will have an eight year parts and labor warranty.


#25

MowerMark

MowerMark

tadawson said:
Looks simply like the bolt fell out, and since (as others note), the blade assembly acts as a flywheel, it may be a cause of the no-start, or a symptom. In any case, it looks like you should be able to reattach it by replacing the one bolt, so it would seem that that would be a cheap and easy test.

If you decide to replace, and since you seem to keep your equipment a long time, don't forget to consider the finite life of batteries on electrics, and due to thier proprietary nature, the relatively short period of time durimg which replacement batts are available.
Click to expand...

A piece of the bolt is in the receiving canal. How to remove it and from where to get a replacement bolt?


#26

MowerMark

MowerMark

Wow! The EGO took four minutes to set up out of the 90 lb. box, is much quieter than the Honda, can easily be pushed without the self-propel turned on, cuts well, and after doing the lawns, there sas still 50% battery charge on the single battery. Two batteries were supplied. So far, very nice.


#27

Pauljp

Pauljp

MowerMark said:
Sorry, don't understand. Please state your post a different way. Are you explaining how these two problems are related?
Click to expand...
When the spark plug on a single cylinder motor fires and causes the motor to spin, they used to rely on a heavy flywheel (the fan shaped disk on top of the motor) to continue the momentum and keep the motor turning until the next spark fires. Since then they are now using lighter materials to make the flywheel that can no longer supply momentum, so it relies on the weight of the blades to do it. This motor should never be run without the blades attached. Your pictures seem to show that your center bolt broke holding the blades onto the shaft. All you need to do is remove the broken part and get a new bolt to install the blades back on. Then all should work.


#28

MowerMark

MowerMark

Thank you so much, Paulip. Fantastic explanation... clear and concise. Purchased a 10 piece screw extractor set but no instructions were included, and I have never done this before.



Attachments





#29

M

MowerNick

Is it under warranty? Honda has had a big recall on those because of camshaft failure. A honda dealer would be able to take care of it.


#30

M

MowerNick

https://engines.honda.com/support-and-service/recalls-updates Try putting your model and serial number in here. It should tell you one way or another.


#31

MowerMark

MowerMark

MowerNick said:
https://engines.honda.com/support-and-service/recalls-updates Try putting your model and serial number in here. It should tell you one way or another.
Click to expand...
Wasn't that done here? https://www.lawnmowerforum.com/thre...my-arm-off-repair-new-mower.76423/post-487680


#32

E

ETAF

Which model did you get to replacy the honda ?

i have been looking to replace a 2004 honda at some point , although still going strong, i thought we had an issue with fuel recently - but thats OK and just had a new recoil starter assembly sent as the string pull start all frayed on Wednesday 10th when i cut the lawn!!!!

the EGO was on my list to get
the one i looked at was the
LM2102SP

I'm in UK
and the kit comes with a 7.5Ah battery - just 1 and a charger , just over £900
or the smaller
LM1903ESP
18" model - with 5Ah battery and charger at under £700


#33

G

Gord Baker

After such abuse with maintenance it is no wonder. You may have Water in the float bowl. Change the oil, air filter and spark plug.
MowerMark said:
This wonderful Honda Lawnmower has been reliable. Occasionally there's initial white exhaust, but it always starts with two pulls. Last oil change was three years ago, last spark plug change six years ago. The mower is used 0-2x/week on 1500 sq. ft. of lawn.

Today half of the lawn was mowed, then emptied the bag. Tried restarting the mower and OUCH. The cord pulled back about halfway during the pull. Never has done this before. Pulled again once, and it would not start. Pulled again and the cord met with extreme resistance halfway through the pull again. I gave up and left the section not done.

What would you now do? Seems it's better to buy a new mower than to endure taking it in for repair. I do have replacement oil and a new spark plug.

If a new mower is indicated, which one to get? California will stop selling gas mowers in the future, but it's difficult to imagine mowing with a long extension cord.
Click to expand...


#34

Alan46

Alan46

Gord Baker said:
After such abuse with maintenance it is no wonder. You may have Water in the float bowl. Change the oil, air filter and spark plug.
Click to expand...
I was thinking the same thing!


#35

S

scoyote

MowerMark said:
No blade strike. Spark plug looks good. Picture taken. Replaced plug--->. still won't start. Two local repair shops not answering the phone. This mower its at least 15 years old and I'm not skilled enough to repair it myself. Some of your repair troubleshooting is like a foreign language!!

Thinking of getting a battery-operated self-propelled mower, such as

• Ryobi 40V Brushless 20 inch with 6.0 Ah Battery and Charger. ($429)
• Greenworks 40V. 21" with 5.0 Ah battery & charger ($359)
• EGO Power. 21". 56 V. 5.0Ah
• Greenworks 48V. 17". 4.0 Ah. ($239)

Any comments or suggestions?
Click to expand...
Don't touch any of the above if you're smart-especially Ryobi or Greenworks (even commercials) if you want electric you will have to pay the big $$ and step up to Makita-Stihl-DeWalt level


#36

B

bobojay

Personal opinion. What little you use your mower, you made a good choice grabbing that EGO.
I've got 2 pieces of their power equipment, blower and trimmer, which have worked great now for 5+ years. Batteries have not been an issue at all.
Scrap that Honda....


#37

R

rhkraft

MowerMark said:
This wonderful Honda Lawnmower has been reliable. Occasionally there's initial white exhaust, but it always starts with two pulls. Last oil change was three years ago, last spark plug change six years ago. The mower is used 0-2x/week on 1500 sq. ft. of lawn.

Today half of the lawn was mowed, then emptied the bag. Tried restarting the mower and OUCH. The cord pulled back about halfway during the pull. Never has done this before. Pulled again once, and it would not start. Pulled again and the cord met with extreme resistance halfway through the pull again. I gave up and left the section not done.

What would you now do? Seems it's better to buy a new mower than to endure taking it in for repair. I do have replacement oil and a new spark plug.

If a new mower is indicated, which one to get? California will stop selling gas mowers in the future, but it's difficult to imagine mowing with a long extension cord.
Click to expand...


#38

R

rhkraft

Make sure the rope is not hanging up. I've had that happen. To check, pull the rope slowly and see if it pulls all the way with surges of compression. If it hangs up hard pulling slowly, release and try several times. If it hangs every time, it could be the rope recoil ball ratchet. But before removing anything check to see if the engine is stuck. Remove the spark plug wire and remove the spark plug. Lay the mower on its side, gas tank up to prevent fuel spillage and with gloves slowly turn the engine with the blade in the direction of the cutting edge. If it hangs up the engine has a problem. You should hear compression coming from the spark plug hole, if not, engine problem. At your experience level take it to a repair shop. The rope recoil fix is simple, the engine, a crap shoot. An electric may be OK for your small lawn, but get a good one. Good Luck!


#39

MowerMark

MowerMark

Thanks, rhkraft. Will do. Was able to extract the center bolt on the Honda, but a new replacement bolt will not arrive for five days. We did purchase the EGO 21" with two batteries, and it is very nice. But will still proceed with the Honda repair attempt as you describe.


#40

P

PSTEF

Without the blades on, it will be very hard to pull thru. As stated previously the blades act as a flywheel. It looks like the key way is chewed up. Did you order a new key also?
Example shown below

Attachments





#41

kbowley

kbowley

The issue with the electric mowers is if they fail, who is going to fix it? The two most common issues are battery and motor failure. The motors will overheat in heavy, thick grass and melt the windings. Good luck getting a new motor. However, no need to worry about gas and oil. Just the blade and put a little grease on the self-propelled gear on each wheel once a year. just a little bit. You must get parts from Ego as they are proprietary. You should be fine. just don't try to mow very thick, tall grass on a sweltering day.


#42

B

bill.g

MowerMark said:
No blade strike. Spark plug looks good. Picture taken. Replaced plug--->. still won't start. Two local repair shops not answering the phone. This mower its at least 15 years old and I'm not skilled enough to repair it myself. Some of your repair troubleshooting is like a foreign language!!

Thinking of getting a battery-operated self-propelled mower, such as

• Ryobi 40V Brushless 20 inch with 6.0 Ah Battery and Charger. ($429)
• Greenworks 40V. 21" with 5.0 Ah battery & charger ($359)
• EGO Power. 21". 56 V. 5.0Ah
• Greenworks 48V. 17". 4.0 Ah. ($239)

Any comments or suggestions?
Click to expand...
Hahahahaha!


#43

T

Timbuktu

The first thing to fix would be to move out of California!


#44

MowerMark

MowerMark

PSTEF said:
Without the blades on, it will be very hard to pull thru. As stated previously the blades act as a flywheel. It looks like the key way is chewed up. Did you order a new key also?
Example shown below
Click to expand...

Oh no. I put new blades on and three new bolts, but I wondered why there was that channel. So, no "keyway" installed. Is it important?

With the blades in place, the problem still exists. If the sparks plug is removed, I can pull the handle/cord easily. With the spark plug installed, it's too hard to pull the cord, and it's hard to pull with or with the boot is on the plug.

How to know if electricity is getting to the plug? When looking into the boot, there's very little metal.... looks like a sheet. Is this the way it should look?

Attachments





#45

MowerMark

MowerMark

bobojay said:
Personal opinion. What little you use your mower, you made a good choice grabbing that EGO.
I've got 2 pieces of their power equipment, blower and trimmer, which have worked great now for 5+ years. Batteries have not been an issue at all.
Scrap that Honda....
Click to expand...
Agree, but this challenge is slightly exciting, and I now have invested in the blades & bolts, and tomorrow a new plug is arriving.


#46

MowerMark

MowerMark

PSTEF said:
Without the blades on, it will be very hard to pull thru. As stated previously the blades act as a flywheel. It looks like the key way is chewed up. Did you order a new key also?
Example shown below
Click to expand...

Please post a link to this part, and I'll order it.

Is it this part? https://www.partselect.com/PS988996...=21&SearchTerm=HRR2167VKA&ModelNum=HRR2167VKA

Or this? https://www.amazon.com/Honda-13331-...ruff-25x18+13331-357-000,aps,136&sr=8-1-fkmr0


#47

MowerMark

MowerMark

New spark plug will be installed later today. When pulling on the cord, the blades turn. I thought the key is required for the blades to turn.


#48

T

tadawson

MowerMark said:
New spark plug will be installed later today. When pulling on the cord, the blades turn. I thought the key is required for the blades to turn.
Click to expand...
Yes and no. Friction will get them to turn somewhat, but under load, the blade to crankshaft coupling will slip without the key. (A solid connection vs. friction only).


#49

MowerMark

MowerMark

MowerMark said:
This wonderful Honda Lawnmower has been reliable. Occasionally there's initial white exhaust, but it always starts with two pulls. Last oil change was three years ago, last spark plug change six years ago. The mower is used 0-2x/week on 1500 sq. ft. of lawn.

Today half of the lawn was mowed, then emptied the bag. Tried restarting the mower and OUCH. The cord pulled back about halfway during the pull. Never has done this before. Pulled again once, and it would not start. Pulled again and the cord met with extreme resistance halfway through the pull again. I gave up and left the section not done.

What would you now do? Seems it's better to buy a new mower than to endure taking it in for repair. I do have replacement oil and a new spark plug.

If a new mower is indicated, which one to get? California will stop selling gas mowers in the future, but it's difficult to imagine mowing with a long extension cord.
Click to expand...


Although last oil change to synthetic was three years ago, a small portion every year was sent in for analysis, some oil added to replace the aliquot, and each analysis was normal. No degradation.
tadawson said:
Yes and no. Friction will get them to turn somewhat, but under load, the blade to crankshaft coupling will slil without the key. (A solid connection vs. friction only).
Click to expand...
Thank you. I have purchased part #13331-357-000 Key (25X18). Is this the correct part?

If this doesn't make everything work, will donate this mower to a non-profit.


#50

S

slomo

MowerMark said:
Last oil change was three years ago
Click to expand...
Do tell......


#51

S

slomo

kbowley said:
The issue with the electric mowers is if they fail, who is going to fix it?
Click to expand...
I asked three local mower shops this very same question. They all said not us....... They said throw them in the garbage and get a longer lasting gas mower.


#52

MowerMark

MowerMark

slomo said:
Do tell......
Click to expand...
I'm not mechanically inclined, but if you'd kindly post a link to such directions, I shall give it the old college try!


#53

MowerMark

MowerMark

kbowley said:
The issue with the electric mowers is if they fail, who is going to fix it? The two most common issues are battery and motor failure. The motors will overheat in heavy, thick grass and melt the windings. Good luck getting a new motor. However, no need to worry about gas and oil. Just the blade and put a little grease on the self-propelled gear on each wheel once a year. just a little bit. You must get parts from Ego as they are proprietary. You should be fine. just don't try to mow very thick, tall grass on a sweltering day.
Click to expand...
I found two local places (within ten miles) who said that would repair this Ego in or out of warranty, and they both praised this model.


#54

S

slomo

MowerMark said:
I'm not mechanically inclined, but if you'd kindly post a link to such directions, I shall give it the old college try!
Click to expand...
Download your engine manual. Read it. Look for the scheduled maintenance page. Look for cleaning cooling fins, de-carbonizing the cylinder/s and changing the oil.


#55

MowerMark

MowerMark

slomo said:
Download your engine manual. Read it. Look for the scheduled maintenance page. Look for cleaning cooling fins, de-carbonizing the cylinder/s and changing the oil.
Click to expand...
Okay, but that is "maintenance" and will it likely or definitely solve the present failure to start problem?


#56

S

slomo

Do you have spark, air, compression and fuel? Find out which you are lacking. Or hire a lawn crew for your 1500sf lawn. Much easier this way. You sit on the couch sipping on a cold one. Grass gets mowed. All in the hot summer as you toss on a blankey watching the big game.


#57

N

Naveed Anjum Hashmi

I discussed this issue in detail in my recent blog you can check it here
URL: https://greenryenthusiast.com/replacing-the-pull-cord-on-a-honda-lawn-mower/

I hope you are able to address your issue after reading this. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask me.

Thanks


#58

MowerMark

MowerMark

Naveed Anjum Hashmi said:
I discussed this issue in detail in my recent blog you can check it here
URL: https://greenryenthusiast.com/replacing-the-pull-cord-on-a-honda-lawn-mower/

I hope you are able to address your issue after reading this. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask me.

Thanks
Click to expand...
Very nicely done! BUT the pull cord is not the problem ...... or is it?

'm torn between abandoning/donating the Honda vs. attempting repair. This EGO mower is excellent, and better to operate than the Honda for many reasons.


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