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So I am still new to the forum, I am constantly amazed at the amount of expertise and experience that is displayed here! I recently bought a new mower(used with low hours from craigslist). I did alot of research looked at specifications until I was blue in the face... finally went with what appeared to be a huge upgrade to my snapper zrider, yet also gave me something similiar and something new I learned I needed after 15 years with the snapper. I recently read a comment about commercial vs residential quality that made me wonder...
What really defines it? Price paid? Size, quality of materials?
I think is has to be expected life cycle, durability and ease of repair. As well as what I really think it is all about, the ability to get a good clean cut. So what defines that? Well to me has has to be blade speed with sharp blades and a stable deck that keeps everything in alignment. Supported by a strong chassis that allows the deck to float at a uniform height. So bottom line I think any mower can cut as well as any other mower given the same blade speeds, blade sharpness and uniform height above the grass. My new mower is a huge upgrade, has blade speeds approaching what I have seen for commercial and this years version does. I still think of it as residential due to the things I would expect from a commercial mower... a top grade air filtration system, a better engine, mine is a 20hp B&S single cylinder, much stronger hydros. So I am asking all of you who are recommending someone spend $5k and up (admittedly below real commercial) what are you expecting to get with those dollars and why? How will it help the guy that has 4-6 acres to mow and that is all.

I see you have not gotten any responces to this. Maybe there are not many commercial readers on this forum.

I would say...

1. the engine would not be a briggs and stratton, it would be a Kawi, Kohler or Diesel
2. the deck would not be stamped, it would be constructed and welded
3. the deck width would be 50+ inches, although I have seen 44" comercial units. This depends on lot size
4. servaceable parts like the greese zerts in the area that would wear on a residential mower
5. the unit is identified by the manufacture as commercial
6. the unit is not covered by plastic housing
7. when you hop on it a little foice in your head says "arugh, arugh, arugh!!" and you have to increase your cap size by a notch or two.

MN Ben
resident looking for a comercial mower

Love the post before mine. Lol

A residential mower will cut 6 acres just fine, if that's all it's having to do. Work that residential mower 40-60 hrs a week during the growing season, chances are you wont have much of a mower left after
1- 2 yrs.

Commercial mowers are better suited for continuous use which for commercial lawn care guys, that's a must.

thanks for the replies... I did not think anyone ever would. So what about quality of cut? Is that only higher blade speed that the commercial units can do... or do the pro guys keep their blades extra sharp. That was always an area where I felt like I should be sharpening much more often. By the way I heard a diesel TORO ZT cruise by while dropping my son off at school and I was letterally shocked how quiet it was!

Using sharp blades defiantly improves the quality of the cut no matter the machine used. Residential mowers give just as good a cut when blades are properly maintained and the yard is cut on a regular bases. A push mower gives the best cut of all but isn't practical for us commercial guys or anyone with a big yard. Lol

The commercial mowers give a better cut than residential mowers on lawns that haven't been kept up. Simply because they have more HP to push through the thick stuff.

The diesel mowers have come a long way. They work best on harder ground, with their added weight they tend to leave a rut after awhile on soft lawns like we have here in FL.

I run commercial mowers for a living. On a commercial mower everything is just built way heavy dutier. The engine, hydro pumps, hydro lines, deck spindles, even the seat. I am somewhat amazed at how flimsy residential mowers are.

Parkmower said:

I run commercial mowers for a living. On a commercial mower everything is just built way heavy dutier. The engine, hydro pumps, hydro lines, deck spindles, even the seat. I am somewhat amazed at how flimsy residential mowers are.

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True that! That's why our mowers can handle the abuse we put them through.

I think the longevity of the machine probably defines the demarcation between commercial and residential machines. I've seen some nice looking lawns that were cut by cheap machines, but in 200 hrs. (or less!) of use, that cheap machine will be junk. Stepping up to a better built machine ended up saving me a lot of time and money that I didn't spend at the repair shop at $59.00/hr.:biggrin:

As stated in the thread - commercial machines are generally rated and designed for use on a continuous basis with hard use and long life. Residential machines are designed to be used less frequently and generally have a shorter expected life unless treated gently and caringly maintained.

MNBen said:

I see you have not gotten any responces to this. Maybe there are not many commercial readers on this forum.


I would say...

1. the engine would not be a briggs and stratton, it would be a Kawi, Kohler or Diesel This is the one I can't agree to - Briggs also has commercial engines - you just don't want a Briggs designed for residential units on a commercial machine. Whatever brand engine - it should be designed for commercial use, matched to usage, and maintained well.
2. the deck would not be stamped, it would be constructed and welded
3. the deck width would be 50+ inches, although I have seen 44" comercial units. This depends on lot size
4. servaceable parts like the greese zerts in the area that would wear on a residential mower
5. the unit is identified by the manufacture as commercial
6. the unit is not covered by plastic housing
7. when you hop on it a little foice in your head says "arugh, arugh, arugh!!" and you have to increase your cap size by a notch or two.

MN Ben
resident looking for a comercial mower

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Interesting to read these comments. What is the entry level in liquid cooled engines. I am still stung by the overheated time bomb BS Intek 24 that came apart twice during reasonable use and TLC.

in my recent quest on trying to buy the perfect mower for me here is what i have been told and assume the truth (lol) by all the salesman.

my first place to look was lowes. found returned troybilt for $1600. stamped 42" deck. looked really nice. started talking to the mower guy there. he told me to spend the extra grand and get the $2600 john deere zz225 which is a 42" stamped deck also. i could clearly see some unique differences. beefier wheels. better engine kawasaki. just overall looked like a sturdier machine. so then i go and ask my buddy who repairs these mowers for a living. he said they were both junk. basically he said that after 500 hours on any of the residential mowers serious repairs will have to be made that would out cost the price of buying a new one. and he said it wouldn't all happen at the same time as silly as that sounds. he told me to goto my local dealer and check out the commercial stuff. his advice was to find something used.
so now i'm at the pros store. i tell them i want a 42" zero turn to mow my grass but don't want to break the bank. they point me to the toro MX4260. 42" deck 10 gauge steel which is welded. clearly an upgrade from the stamped decks on the residential mowers. decks are your most abused part of the mower. also advertised with this $3700 is a beefed up transmission and arm rests on the seat. so the extra 1000 gets you a beefier deck, transmission, and arm rests...i'm like cool. i want that one. so i go back to my friend. he says no no no its still not what you should get. its definetly better but your still at 500 hours give or take. so i'm leaving the dealer confused as ever and wanting to bang my head on the wall.
couple days go buy. i see another dealer and stop in for a look. i meet a salesman named hugh. i tell him what i want. he looks at me puzzled....says sir....why do you want this 42 zero turn? i said well i have 5 rentals less then a 1/2 acre each that i mow and i really think it will cut down my time and i don't ever want to buy another mower. i'm 28. his next question. do these homes have fences? i said well....yes...somewhat shell shocked. the 42" isn't gonna fit threw the gates sherlock i think to myself. this was a game changer. he went on to ask me what kind of trailer i had. 4x8 i replied. he also saw the work van i was driving. i sit and drive all day long. he went to go on about his back problems as i also have back pain from sitting all day. at this point my mindset had completely changed. i now wanted a mower that would fit threw a 40" fence and i did not want to sit anymore. we go over to the wrights which i had never even heard of. i'm looking at these things going this thing is sick. grease fittings all over it. hydraulic pumps and hoses nicely installed. frame on this thing was a piece of art. great engine. basically he said that these mowers are the most manuverable and fit in the tightest spaces. also they are built to last 2000 hrs plus and then he did the math figuring with the yards i cut that this mower would last approximately 30 yrs. i'm pretty much sold. its $5000 out the door with tax and everything.
basically what i think it comes down to is getting what you NEED and sometimes you need someone that can tell you what that is because i had no clue. he knew i would not be happy with a mower i had to replace because the stamped deck rust in 5 years. he knew the ZTR would rack my back sitting down. all in all i'm very happy to have spoke with hugh at the dealer. otherwise i'd have a big mower that wouldn't fit into the back yards and i'd be replacing again in 5-10 years. and thats not what i wanted. hope this helps. if my needs change i'll be going back to hugh.

You said you looked at the wrights which you had never even heard of so I'm assuming your talking about a stander. You said you're pretty much sold. I would suggest you look at the Toro Grandstand, the Scag and the Exmark as a comparison before purchasing the Wright. All have grease fittings, hydraulic pumps and hefty frames and decks and are just as maneuverable and fit in the tightest spaces. Also they are built to last 2000 hrs plus. I'd also check out some warranty's, Wright I believe only has a 2 year warranty, the Grandstand has a 5 year 1200 hr warranty, Exmark a 3 year warranty and Scag a 2 year.. Don't let a sales person talk you into a mower without checking the others out first.

Yes all the commercial mowers are 2000 plus hours. I have researched quite a bit. I am going back to the other dealer to see the toro and scag but honestly the help I received at the other dealer is what will probably be the deal maker. Also I have seen that when wright had their deck issues they stood behind it and made the repairs. That's a OK in my book. But I will keep an open mind.

:smile: My self I just purchased the Toro Grandstand 36" and I'll pick it up on Thursday. Needed it to get through gates and for a mower the wife can run, something tells me this is going to be a riot. :laughing:

Ric said:

:smile: My self I just purchased the Toro Grandstand 36" and I'll pick it up on Thursday. Needed it to get through gates and for a mower the wife can run, something tells me this is going to be a riot. :laughing:

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Ric, what made you decide on the toro? Just curious. Around here the wright stander is by far the most popular mower for the lawn mowing companies.

Parkmower said:

Ric, what made you decide on the toro? Just curious. Around here the wright stander is by far the most popular mower for the lawn mowing companies.

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I didn't like the ride platform on the Wright it's to confining, there's no room to move your feet really and it's a fixed platform. The Toro has the Flex-Ride operator platform suspension which has a lot more room to move your feet. You can flip up the platform and use it as a WB. The Wright only has a 2 year warranty vs the 5 year of the Toro and besides I just like the look of the mower; it's easy maintained and I like the Kawasaki engine. I'm pretty loyal to my dealer and the Toro is what he sells. :smile: Hey I may get this thing today, bring it home and hate the thing, who knows. I'm picking it up at noon.

Parkmower said:

Ric, what made you decide on the toro? Just curious. Around here the wright stander is by far the most popular mower for the lawn mowing companies.

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Probably because Toro is the best :wink:
Depends on the engine though :thumbsup:

pugaltitude said:

Probably because Toro is the best :wink:
Depends on the engine though :thumbsup:

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Well I don't know if Toro the best or not, the motor is a 15 HP Kawasaki FS 603cc. My WB is the FS 13hp and it's been a great motor.

Ric said:

Well I don't know if Toro the best or not, the motor is a 15 HP Kawasaki FS 603cc. My WB is the FS 13hp and it's been a great motor.

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Yes they are the best IMO!

Why people like JD for example when Toro is available I just do not know why!!

pugaltitude said:

Yes they are the best IMO!

Why people like JD for example when Toro is available I just do not know why!!

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I don't even consider JD commercial. Yeah they make some but no one runs them. Mainly home owners do. Homeowners are usually very uninformed. They just buy a JD cause they think it's a quality brand.

So parkmower buy the stander if it fits your needs and suits your style of mowing. But I totally disagree with the comments from your dealer that a zt would not be comfortable!! I have scolisis, a 78 degree curve. My 1st zt (bought for almost identical reasons as yours)was a snapper I had for 15 years and it was by far the easiest to get on and most comfortable of any riding mower I have ever used. I bought the 33" deck version to be able to get into 36 inch back yard gates. I just replaced it due mostly to bad maintenance on my part. However the other comment I disagree with is the 5 year life span of the deck. My deck on the snapper is stamped and still useable as ever. The last thing I disagree with is the concept of buying one mower for the rest of your life. While anything can be repaired, mowers can get new engines, spindles, wiring... at some point it is no longer cost effective. My snapper only had one bearing failure in 15 years... the bearing the pto mounts to. I only replaced the belts while I was there replacing the bearing ... all this was after 12 years. I paid 2700 when I bought it... but another 600 in it at the 12 year point and then this year replaced it due to water intrusion in the cylinder during a storm. It could still be fixed, I had upgraded the seat, replaced the flat prone dolley wheels with flat-free wheels and it had been running like a champ. I ended up buying it's replacement off cl for $2300, it had the one killer feature I had learned from having the snapper all those years I really wanted. I easy to repair deck. I dont expect to have to repair it, it has grease fittings on everything and is a fabb'ed deck but the occassional object I run over mowing at the Boy Scouts haunted house my son's troop runs will be much easier to remove since this deck is so easy to work on. (pull a couple of levers and it slides right out from under the front of the mower) If I get 15 years out of it I will be more than satisfied!! By the way I am just a homeowner, I can only tell you about what works for me. These guys on this forum have huge amounts of experience that you should listen to, they either have learned it the hard way or have learned it from other peoples mistakes that they were asked to fix. By the way My Country Clipper with a 38 inch deck will do everything you want.

Well I picked up the Grandstand a noon, came home and mowed about 30 minutes and the wife took it away from me and mowed the fore-closer across the street. The thing does a really nice job, has a good cut, very maneuverable and very comfortable to ride the Flex-Ride operator platform suspension is super but like any new mower will take some getting use to. I said I may get this thing today, bring it home and hate the thing but not a chance, it's great.

i'm jealous. good luck man

txzrider said:

So parkmower buy the stander if it fits your needs and suits your style of mowing. But I totally disagree with the comments from your dealer that a zt would not be comfortable!! I have scolisis, a 78 degree curve. My 1st zt (bought for almost identical reasons as yours)was a snapper I had for 15 years and it was by far the easiest to get on and most comfortable of any riding mower I have ever used. I bought the 33" deck version to be able to get into 36 inch back yard gates. I just replaced it due mostly to bad maintenance on my part. However the other comment I disagree with is the 5 year life span of the deck. My deck on the snapper is stamped and still useable as ever. The last thing I disagree with is the concept of buying one mower for the rest of your life. While anything can be repaired, mowers can get new engines, spindles, wiring... at some point it is no longer cost effective. My snapper only had one bearing failure in 15 years... the bearing the pto mounts to. I only replaced the belts while I was there replacing the bearing ... all this was after 12 years. I paid 2700 when I bought it... but another 600 in it at the 12 year point and then this year replaced it due to water intrusion in the cylinder during a storm. It could still be fixed, I had upgraded the seat, replaced the flat prone dolley wheels with flat-free wheels and it had been running like a champ. I ended up buying it's replacement off cl for $2300, it had the one killer feature I had learned from having the snapper all those years I really wanted. I easy to repair deck. I dont expect to have to repair it, it has grease fittings on everything and is a fabb'ed deck but the occassional object I run over mowing at the Boy Scouts haunted house my son's troop runs will be much easier to remove since this deck is so easy to work on. (pull a couple of levers and it slides right out from under the front of the mower) If I get 15 years out of it I will be more than satisfied!! By the way I am just a homeowner, I can only tell you about what works for me. These guys on this forum have huge amounts of experience that you should listen to, they either have learned it the hard way or have learned it from other peoples mistakes that they were asked to fix. By the way My Country Clipper with a 38 inch deck will do everything you want.

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Better check the posts I didn't say that stuff.

Parkmower said:

Better check the posts I didn't say that stuff.

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That's what I thought, I couldn't find where you or anyone else said those things. I thought I was missing something.

Parkmower said:

Better check the posts I didn't say that stuff.

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You are so right... I am sorry for misquoting you. It was Paulz I was trying to reply to.

txzrider said:

So parkmower buy the stander if it fits your needs and suits your style of mowing. But I totally disagree with the comments from your dealer that a zt would not be comfortable!! I have scolisis, a 78 degree curve. My 1st zt (bought for almost identical reasons as yours)was a snapper I had for 15 years and it was by far the easiest to get on and most comfortable of any riding mower I have ever used. I bought the 33" deck version to be able to get into 36 inch back yard gates. I just replaced it due mostly to bad maintenance on my part. However the other comment I disagree with is the 5 year life span of the deck. My deck on the snapper is stamped and still useable as ever. The last thing I disagree with is the concept of buying one mower for the rest of your life. While anything can be repaired, mowers can get new engines, spindles, wiring... at some point it is no longer cost effective. My snapper only had one bearing failure in 15 years... the bearing the pto mounts to. I only replaced the belts while I was there replacing the bearing ... all this was after 12 years. I paid 2700 when I bought it... but another 600 in it at the 12 year point and then this year replaced it due to water intrusion in the cylinder during a storm. It could still be fixed, I had upgraded the seat, replaced the flat prone dolley wheels with flat-free wheels and it had been running like a champ. I ended up buying it's replacement off cl for $2300, it had the one killer feature I had learned from having the snapper all those years I really wanted. I easy to repair deck. I dont expect to have to repair it, it has grease fittings on everything and is a fabb'ed deck but the occassional object I run over mowing at the Boy Scouts haunted house my son's troop runs will be much easier to remove since this deck is so easy to work on. (pull a couple of levers and it slides right out from under the front of the mower) If I get 15 years out of it I will be more than satisfied!! By the way I am just a homeowner, I can only tell you about what works for me. These guys on this forum have huge amounts of experience that you should listen to, they either have learned it the hard way or have learned it from other peoples mistakes that they were asked to fix. By the way My Country Clipper with a 38 inch deck will do everything you want.

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Whether a Zt is comfortable or not really depends on the ZT. Most of the residential units do not ride well and can beat you to death. The Commercial units ride better because they're heavier units, have wider tires, better seats and absorb the shock better. They're made for an operator to be in eight hours a day. I can tell you that after three days of using the Grandstand its one of the most comfortable mowers I've used, the Flex-Ride operator platform suspension is super, It has an excellent cut and is just as maneuverable as any ZTR.
As Far as the 5 year life span of a stamped deck goes, I don't agree or disagree it all depends on how often the mower gets used and under what conditions it's used as to how long it will last.

So I will grant that the commercial features of ZT's inherently make them hopefully more comfortable... but we are not talking about 8 hours a day mowing in this context. I would bet most residential ZT's are comfortable enough for the normal 1-3 hours of use they get at a time, certainly as comfortable as any residential lt or gt! Even after I converted my old snapper to solid flat free dolly wheels, it was not too bad. I did feel the need to watch out for bumps and slow down. The new one with the std dolly wheels is definitely cushy in comparison. That being said, the 1st flat I get they will be back to flat free! Would I trade my ZT for a stand up version? Hell would freeze over 1st! Not to mention I have a couple of trees that I dont think you could mow close enough to with a stand up mower. Country Clipper offers an airride seat for my mower... I doubt it will make it as cushy as a ferris but it is still half the price.

txzrider said:

So I will grant that the commercial features of ZT's inherently make them hopefully more comfortable... but we are not talking about 8 hours a day mowing in this context. I would bet most residential ZT's are comfortable enough for the normal 1-3 hours of use they get at a time, certainly as comfortable as any residential lt or gt!

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I don't agree or disagree that they would be more comfortable than the lt or gt but some of the Lt and GT aren't bad riding machines and some will cut as good as the residential ztr.

txzrider said:

Would I trade my ZT for a stand up version? Hell would freeze over 1st! Not to mention I have a couple of trees that I dont think you could mow close enough to with a stand up mower. Country Clipper offers an airride seat for my mower... I doubt it will make it as cushy as a ferris but it is still half the price.

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As far as the stand up version and trading I would have agreed with you, I said the same thing you said about the ZTR, but after the last six days of use with the Grandstand my ztr mowers will be listed on Craiglist shortly and I'll be buying another Grandstand ASAP.
Again I'm like you and I thought the same about my back. I've been going to a chiropractor forever for back problems and I thought the ztr was the way to go but I was wrong.
If you stop and think about it while you're riding your ztr, LT ot GT, where is the shock from the bumps absorbed? Answer is the base of your spine and goes straight through your back. You don't get that shock on a stander, it's absorbed through the Flex-Ride operator platform so there's less operator fatigue.

I am glad the standing zt works so well, very good to know. since my legs go numb when standing for more than about 5 min... I would still be hesitant to think it would work better for me.

Ric said:

.As far as the stand up version and trading I would have agreed with you, I said the same thing you said about the ZTR, but after the last six days of use with the Grandstand my ztr mowers will be listed on Craiglist shortly and I'll be buying another Grandstand ASAP.

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Well I said the ZTR mowers would be listed on Craiglist shortly and the CC 44" and the CC G1336 walk behind both sold the same day. Hopefully in a few months I'll be adding a 48" Grandstand.