Export thread

What is the general reliability of "belt slip" self propelled mowers?

#1

N

NHFree1

I am currently considering two different Honda mowers, the HRX217HYA which from what I understand is a true hydrostatic, and the HRX217VKA (smart drive) which actually uses drive belt slippage to control the drive speed.

Wondering in general how reliable the slipping belt method is and how long a drive belt generally lasts. Usually a slipping belt is not a good thing so I don't understand how the drive systems in this type of mower achieves any longevity, not just with Honda but with other brands as well. I am replacing a Toro recycler (cheap model below the personal pace) that I bought used (when I couldn't afford a better one) and have run for about 5 years. I mow about a half acre.

I like the HYA hydro but not sure if I like the double handle (BBC and drive) since you need to still hold the BBC handle in position while "throttling" the drive handle if you want to go slower than your "set" top speed.


#2

exotion

exotion

The belt slip method has been tryed tested and proven. It works great and as for how long the belt will last depends on how much you use the mower and quality of belt. Probably will last 3 or 4 seasons of regular home use and 1 or 2 of commercial use. My honda hrr216 lasted one season of intense commercial use.


#3

lawn mower fanatic

lawn mower fanatic

I can't tell you how reliable the belt slip mowers are, but I can say the reviews are good, and Honda tests them thoroughly. :thumbsup:

As for the hydrostatic mower, I have the HYA, and I can tell you I like those controls more than I would like the Smart Drive. And you say you don't like how you have to hold in the BBC handle even when you ease off the drive handle, and I can tell you that you really aren't. Because the way I hold the handle, I hold it with my left hand at the extreme left side, so I'm not touching the drive handle, so when I need to let go of the drive I just release my right hand (see diagram). Best way would be to see how they feel at your local dealer.

handle.jpg


#4

N

NHFree1

exotion said:
The belt slip method has been tryed tested and proven. It works great and as for how long the belt will last depends on how much you use the mower and quality of belt. Probably will last 3 or 4 seasons of regular home use and 1 or 2 of commercial use. My honda hrr216 lasted one season of intense commercial use.
Click to expand...

Whereas the belt on the true hydro HYA model may last 10x as long since it doesn't slip right? Just seems silly (and cheap) to design a mower where the manufacturer says "the variable speed comes from slipping the belt" is an acceptable idea for a homeowner who doesn't want to pour money into a mower every few years to change a belt because of lousy design.


#5

N

NHFree1

lawn mower fanatic said:
I can't tell you how reliable the belt slip mowers are, but I can say the reviews are good, and Honda tests them thoroughly. :thumbsup:

As for the hydrostatic mower, I have the HYA, and I can tell you I like those controls more than I would like the Smart Drive. And you say you don't like how you have to hold in the BBC handle even when you ease off the drive handle, and I can tell you that you really aren't. Because the way I hold the handle, I hold it with my left hand at the extreme left side, so I'm not touching the drive handle, so when I need to let go of the drive I just release my right hand (see diagram). Best way would be to see how they feel at your local dealer.

View attachment 19139
Click to expand...

Thanks! I hadn't noticed the difference in how the drive handle sits relative to the blade handle. I thought they were in the same footprint of space but I see now the drive handle doesn't go to the ends of the handle like the BBC handle. Headed to a local dealer this weekend to further my research and decide. I am now leaning toward the HYA.


#6

lawn mower fanatic

lawn mower fanatic

NHFree1 said:
Thanks! I hadn't noticed the difference in how the drive handle sits relative to the blade handle. I thought they were in the same footprint of space but I see now the drive handle doesn't go to the ends of the handle like the BBC handle. Headed to a local dealer this weekend to further my research and decide. I am now leaning toward the HYA.
Click to expand...

Yeah usually if you can afford it, going up a model can't hurt.


#7

bwdbrn1

bwdbrn1

Hydro Hondas are the easiest mowers to operate of any I've ever owned. I think once you try it out at your dealer, you'll like it as well.


#8

exotion

exotion

bwdbrn1 said:
Hydro Hondas are the easiest mowers to operate of any I've ever owned. I think once you try it out at your dealer, you'll like it as well.
Click to expand...

It's definately a huge difference however the belt slip method won't let you down think about this? Cost of replacing a belt every couple years? Vs the cost of broken hydro stuff ? Even if its rare for hydro and ARM to brake what if it does


#9

N

NHFree1

exotion said:
It's definately a huge difference however the belt slip method won't let you down think about this? Cost of replacing a belt every couple years? Vs the cost of broken hydro stuff ? Even if its rare for hydro and ARM to brake what if it does
Click to expand...

According to a post I read by Robert@Honda (from 2011), the hydro used in the HRX has been used by Honda for over 25 years but the current belt slip design has only been around for about 3 years (as of 2013). It would seem to me that any "bugs" Honda had in the hydro system would be worked out and issues should be very rare. The belt-slip drive doesn't have a long enough track record for me if there is only about $100 difference in cost between the two mowers I am looking at....plus there is a blade clutch on the hydro model which I know would be a significant convenience for me.


#10

lawn mower fanatic

lawn mower fanatic

NHFree1 said:
According to a post I read by Robert@Honda (from 2011), the hydro used in the HRX has been used by Honda for over 25 years but the current belt slip design has only been around for about 3 years (as of 2013). It would seem to me that any "bugs" Honda had in the hydro system would be worked out and issues should be very rare...
Click to expand...

That's how I look at it.


#11

Mike88se

Mike88se

NHFree1 said:
Whereas the belt on the true hydro HYA model may last 10x as long since it doesn't slip right? Just seems silly (and cheap) to design a mower where the manufacturer says "the variable speed comes from slipping the belt" is an acceptable idea for a homeowner who doesn't want to pour money into a mower every few years to change a belt because of lousy design.
Click to expand...

You think changing a belt on a mower every few years is a sign of poor design? I change the belts on my vehicles every few years as a precaution. Takes me all of 10 minutes tops. It isn't much trouble to change a belt on a mower either. And it's not expensive at all.


#12

P

panabiker

For home use, belt CVT (as it's called on my Troy-bilt rider) is fine. I have had it since 2005 and have not changed the belt but it started wearing thin. I have also driven a hydrostatic one and it does give a smoother ride.


#13

N

NHFree1

Mike88se said:
You think changing a belt on a mower every few years is a sign of poor design? I change the belts on my vehicles every few years as a precaution. Takes me all of 10 minutes tops. It isn't much trouble to change a belt on a mower either. And it's not expensive at all.
Click to expand...

How many miles do you go between belt changes on your vehicles? I could change mine at every oil change and call it a precaution but that would be just plain wasteful.

Anyway, when they use the design of slipping the belt so they can call it a "variable speed self propelled" so they can have another model in the lineup to sell at a "cheaper" price point but at the expense of a part that needs to be replaced every couple years from "normal" use, then yes, it is poor design (at least from a consumer point of view). It benefits the manufacturer by creating a consumable part and the dealers who then provide service to those who aren't mechanically inclined. I would change the belt myself but my time is also worth something to me so I would rather spend an extra $100 on a mower with a better designed drive system. Sorry, at $600 for a "premium" category mower, it shouldn't need anything other than fuel, oil changes, blade sharpening, and minor lubrication for at least the first 5 years of homeowner use.

My father still runs his 3 speed rear wheel drive Toro Recycler mower he bought in the early 1980's. Still runs well and still uses the original drive belt. The rear wheels even have half their tread still on them. Only had annual oil changes and blade sharpening. Still mowing the same 1/2 acre of grass it has always mowed. Point being that a superior design will last and shouldn't require "consumable" parts every couple years.


#14

Mike88se

Mike88se

I replace my truck's serpentine belt when it needs replacing i.e. when it looks like it's worn but I don't wait til it's at the point where it looks like it's about to go. I'm not seeing your point there.
IIRC you said the mower is for your home use. I haven't heard any evidence that the drive belt will wear out in 2 years when used as a personal mower. I've had a Toro PP mower which operates on the same method. I used that mower for my yard and several others. I owned that mower for several years. The belt was still fine when I sold the mower. A new Honda belt is $7 and takes about 30 minutes to replace but it probably would seem like a small PITA job. If it lasts as long as the Toro belt I would not have any hesitation in buy a Honda VKA. On the other hand $100 isn't that much difference if you want to avoid the possibility of having to spend $7 and 30 minutes of your time if the belt only lasts a short while. If it lasts 4 to 5 years then it becomes iffy. I have a neighbor who runs a small weekend lawn service company. He uses high end Stihl handheld tools but his mowers are VKAs. He seems to like them and he isn't very mechanically inclined. I had to install a new gear in one of his drive wheels last week. Took me about 10 minutes. I think you want the hydro so I think you should get it and I think you had pretty much made that decision before you posted ;)
A lawn mower is a machine. Things can go wrong even if you maintain it. It's just the way it is. Good luck!
NHFree1 said:
How many miles do you go between belt changes on your vehicles? I could change mine at every oil change and call it a precaution but that would be just plain wasteful.

Anyway, when they use the design of slipping the belt so they can call it a "variable speed self propelled" so they can have another model in the lineup to sell at a "cheaper" price point but at the expense of a part that needs to be replaced every couple years from "normal" use, then yes, it is poor design (at least from a consumer point of view). It benefits the manufacturer by creating a consumable part and the dealers who then provide service to those who aren't mechanically inclined. I would change the belt myself but my time is also worth something to me so I would rather spend an extra $100 on a mower with a better designed drive system. Sorry, at $600 for a "premium" category mower, it shouldn't need anything other than fuel, oil changes, blade sharpening, and minor lubrication for at least the first 5 years of homeowner use.

My father still runs his 3 speed rear wheel drive Toro Recycler mower he bought in the early 1980's. Still runs well and still uses the original drive belt. The rear wheels even have half their tread still on them. Only had annual oil changes and blade sharpening. Still mowing the same 1/2 acre of grass it has always mowed. Point being that a superior design will last and shouldn't require "consumable" parts every couple years.
Click to expand...


#15

exotion

exotion

Mike88se said:
I replace my truck's serpentine belt when it needs replacing i.e. when it looks like it's worn but I don't wait til it's at the point where it looks like it's about to go. I'm not seeing your point there.
IIRC you said the mower is for your home use. I haven't heard any evidence that the drive belt will wear out in 2 years when used as a personal mower. I've had a Toro PP mower which operates on the same method. I used that mower for my yard and several others. I owned that mower for several years. The belt was still fine when I sold the mower. A new Honda belt is $7 and takes about 30 minutes to replace but it probably would seem like a small PITA job. If it lasts as long as the Toro belt I would not have any hesitation in buy a Honda VKA. On the other hand $100 isn't that much difference if you want to avoid the possibility of having to spend $7 and 30 minutes of your time if the belt only lasts a short while. If it lasts 4 to 5 years then it becomes iffy. I have a neighbor who runs a small weekend lawn service company. He uses high end Stihl handheld tools but his mowers are VKAs. He seems to like them and he isn't very mechanically inclined. I had to install a new gear in one of his drive wheels last week. Took me about 10 minutes. I think you want the hydro so I think you should get it and I think you had pretty much made that decision before you posted ;)
A lawn mower is a machine. Things can go wrong even if you maintain it. It's just the way it is. Good luck!
Click to expand...

Perfect I use the VKA i had to change the belt once (about 700 ish hours) and I abuse the machine. My old toro PP i never changed the belt had it two years I bought it used and put about 500 hours on it. My toro commercial still has stock belts they look fine to me. I think other parts will wear out before the belt on these types of mowers the drive gears and wheels are my PITA on the Honda VKA ugh but like I said I beat the hell out of them


#16

lawn mower fanatic

lawn mower fanatic

exotion said:
Perfect I use the VKA i had to change the belt once (about 700 ish hours) and I abuse the machine. My old toro PP i never changed the belt had it two years I bought it used and put about 500 hours on it. My toro commercial still has stock belts they look fine to me. I think other parts will wear out before the belt on these types of mowers the drive gears and wheels are my PITA on the Honda VKA ugh but like I said I beat the hell out of them
Click to expand...

The wheels on the HRR mowers are definitely not as durable as the ones on the HRX. More plastic, less rubber on the HRR tires. And to clarify to the OP, exotion has the HRR216VKA, not the HRX217VKA, so that's not a problem for you.


#17

exotion

exotion

lawn mower fanatic said:
The wheels on the HRR mowers are definitely not as durable as the ones on the HRX. More plastic, less rubber on the HRR tires. And to clarify to the OP, exotion has the HRR216VKA, not the HRX217VKA, so that's not a problem for you.
Click to expand...

Right sorry wasn't thinking that mind was focused on drive style. The hrx has better tires for sure. The smart drive vs hydro ill take smart drive any day so easy to use and to work on I would rather stand behind the smart drive for 8 hrs


Footer Links 1

Top