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I'm considering a Badboy Z turn mower. Looks like there prices are going to be hard to beat and the reviews look very good on them. There's a full service dealer nearby witch makes it very confenient.They have 3 motor combination Kawasaki, Kohler, and Briggs. What would your choice be? Mower will be for home use only. I here good and not so good things about all three. My old sears rider has a 15 hp kohler and it has been very good, so Im leaning towards the kohler engine:smile:

thanks dhall

No matter what we say your have to go with your gut, because you have to live with it. All three make good engines and will hold up well if taken care of. The only thing I would say is if the Kohler is a Courage engine, most of the techs here would say that the Courage has given us a lot of problems.

dhall57 said:

I'm considering a Badboy Z turn mower. Looks like there prices are going to be hard to beat and the reviews look very good on them. There's a full service dealer nearby witch makes it very confenient.They have 3 motor combination Kawasaki, Kohler, and Briggs. What would your choice be? Mower will be for home use only. I here good and not so good things about all three. My old sears rider has a 15 hp kohler and it has been very good, so Im leaning towards the kohler engine:smile:

thanks dhall

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Again myself and Rivets disagree. He runs down the Kohler Courage continually as having all kinds of problems and I find that puzzling as I said before. I've run the Courage single and V- Twins for years and never had an engine problem with either. It's my opinion Kohler and the Kohler Courage is one of the best engines you can buy.

I say stay away from the Courage engine based on experience. In the past 2years Kohler has warrantied at least a dozen engines, half just out of warranty. Major problems we've seen are governor breakdowns, valve train problems and replacing carbs. Sure, they take care of them, but why do we see so many Courage? Maybe it is just our conditions here or hard usage, but I have to call them like I see them. Wish Kohler would bring back the old K-series, no body built them better.

Rivets said:

I say stay away from the Courage engine based on experience. In the past 2years Kohler has warrantied at least a dozen engines, half just out of warranty. Major problems we've seen are governor breakdowns, valve train problems and replacing carbs. Sure, they take care of them, but why do we see so many Courage? Maybe it is just our conditions here or hard usage, but I have to call them like I see them. Wish Kohler would bring back the old K-series, no body built them better.

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You've based your opinion on the Courage from your experience. Working on a dozen engines in two years out of the thousands that were put into service in the same time frame.

If I have only worked on a dozen Courage engines since they came out you would be correct, but we have probably worked on 2 dozen every month since they were introduced in 2002. When they first came out I actually had an opportunity to see the new engine and talk to the engineers who designed it. At that time I was very impressed. The engine preformed well and was widely accepted by the tractor market. In 2007 Kohler started producing the Courage XT single cylinder engine with a Chinese company, for the push mower market and these do not stand up at all. In the past four years I have seen the quality of the original Courage drop and an increase in warranty claims and problems. That is why at this time I no longer put the Courage engine at the top of the list. I guess we will have to agree to disagree again.

dhall57 said:

I'm considering a Badboy Z turn mower. Looks like there prices are going to be hard to beat and the reviews look very good on them. There's a full service dealer nearby witch makes it very confenient.They have 3 motor combination Kawasaki, Kohler, and Briggs. What would your choice be? Mower will be for home use only. I here good and not so good things about all three. My old sears rider has a 15 hp kohler and it has been very good, so Im leaning towards the kohler engine:smile:

thanks dhall

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What are the models of engines on offer?

Its ok saying Briggs, Honda and Kohler but all make good and not so good models.
Might be able to shed some light.

Kohler 27HP Courage, FS726cc Kawasaki, and the Briggs 27HP Professional Series

What does the dealer or salesman advise?

He wouldn't pick one over the other. He said some people are loyal to certain mfg., but he thought all were good engines and should perform well and all had good warranties is some problem did occur. I was originally leaning toward the Kohler because my old Craftsman mower has a Kohler 15 HP Command engine witch has been great. But the reviews on the newer Courage is not that good.

I prefer the Kohler but it really doesn't matter which one you choose. None of them come with the guarantee that you won't have issues. Lol

Just keep an eye on the oil level even with a new engine.

Ric said:

Again myself and Rivets disagree. He runs down the Kohler Courage continually as having all kinds of problems and I find that puzzling as I said before. I've run the Courage single and V- Twins for years and never had an engine problem with either. It's my opinion Kohler and the Kohler Courage is one of the best engines you can buy.

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I got to say till this last repair job I got I would have picked the Kholer Courage. Now after working on the one I have now it is the last engine I would buy now but the Kohler command is a differant story. As I see it is a very cheap made engine without any main crank bearings and very poor castings. I hope you the best of luck with your Kholer Courage engines because they are just a throw away engine as I see it.

I have bad luck with Kholer. three machines with their engines, three dead kholer engines. all with governor problems:thumbdown:

This is my first post. Am I an expert in engines? No I am not. All I want to say is that I use to have a small mowing company and have had 3 walk behind and 4 Zero turns. All of them had Kawasaki engines on them and I never had one problem with an engine. They all ran great and were very powerful. All brands do have failures, they are mechanical and parts break down. Like everyone has said you must decide for yourself and live with what you choose. Good luck

Rottman said:

This is my first post. Am I an expert in engines? No I am not. All I want to say is that I use to have a small mowing company and have had 3 walk behind and 4 Zero turns. All of them had Kawasaki engines on them and I never had one problem with an engine. They all ran great and were very powerful. All brands do have failures, they are mechanical and parts break down. Like everyone has said you must decide for yourself and live with what you choose. Good luck

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You are very lucky that you have never had any engine failures. I am in the repair business and do agree all brand do have failures to a point. But when I see the poor engineering in this Kholer courage I am going to say so. Kholer has made a name for its self as quality but now to make a engine like this courage I think they will only kill themselves.

My sample size is 1 (one), a BS 24 HP in a 48" Craftsman. This is not a basis for a reliable projection (perhaps), but I will never buy Briggs again. It may have been Craftsman at fault for presenting the engine in an outfit with 3 bag pickup (which is really great but...). I ran with great TLC but the engine quit twice and required dismantling. These disasters IMO were due to overheating head assemblies which came apart. Both times the baskets were being used, were full, on a slight grade in 80 F ambient temp. I outfitted the tractor with oil temp gauge and saw 300 F many times with the bagger system in place. That temp was not reached otherwise, although 270F was common. I can hold 240F now and no more problems. These ACooled engines are bombs and should all have temp gauges.

I have a Bad Boy with the 27 hp Kohler Courage Pro. The engine has less than 100 hrs on it and the only problem that I have had is, if you put it on a slope with the shoot side up, it will blow smoke like a mosquito fogger. I'm not sure why this is the case but I had a garden tractor with a Briggs 20 hp twin on it and I never had that problem. You know the slope is not excessive if I put a Z mower on it so it is something in the motor. The flip side to that is, this thing will mow about anything. Tall wet grass doesn't even slow it down and that is pushing a 60" deck. I to read all the negative information (after I had bought the mower) and wished I had paid a little more for the Kawasaki. Once again, I'm afraid that what we see is the attempt to have big horsepower while keeping production cost down. You see it everywhere whether it's buying a firearm or anything else that is made on an assembly line. It is really amazing that any of this stuff does as well as it does. I used to run my poor old Craftsman mower four hours every time I mowed my yard but now I do it in about an hour with this new Z. With this new mower, I put less than 100 hours a year on it so if I get the life out if this as good as my old mower, it will last the rest of my days. I am nervous about this motor but it makes me feel a little better to know that Kohler has been taking care of them. They could let you get past the 2 year warranty and let you eat $1200.00. The bad part is, no matter what motor you look at, you can find problems. The consumer doesn't realize how many of these things they build a year so for all three, it would be interesting to know how many engines they have go bad in the first five years as per their total production run. Then you could really argue the value of one to another. I will be the first to post on here if something goes wrong with mine but unless we get some rain here in MIssouri, the only way I will blow the motor is if I ride it down to get the mail. Take care and good luck shopping.

rfl I have a question, have you ever change your oil and if so what did you use ?

reynoldston said:

I got to say till this last repair job I got I would have picked the Kholer Courage. Now after working on the one I have now it is the last engine I would buy now but the Kohler command is a different story. As I see it is a very cheap made engine without any main crank bearings and very poor castings. I hope you the best of luck with your Kholer Courage engines because they are just a throw away engine as I see it.

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I here the same things about the Kohler Command engine being the bad motor and having all the problems. I think a lot of problems with the Courage is the people who preform the maintenance on the motors and the things they use. As far as a throw away engine, I feel the same way about Briggs & Stratton

rfl said:

I have a Bad Boy with the 27 hp Kohler Courage Pro. The engine has less than 100 hrs on it and the only problem that I have had is, if you put it on a slope with the shoot side up, it will blow smoke like a mosquito fogger. I'm not sure why this is the case but I had a garden tractor with a Briggs 20 hp twin on it and I never had that problem.

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Possible cause could be is that the engines breather system is at the furthest down point and engine oil is entering and going straight through breather to atmosphere.

Ric said:

I here the same things about the Kohler Command engine being the bad motor and having all the problems. I think a lot of problems with the Courage is the people who preform the maintenance on the motors and the things they use. As far as a throw away engine, I feel the same way about Briggs & Stratton

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IMO you cant say any manufacturer is just a throw away engine.
Some engines suit certain applications and some dont.
I dislike the Honda GC range due to reliability problems but the GX range is great.
Im not too keen on the B & S Intek range but no manufacturer can beat the vanguard range at all.
Tecumseh vertical on a lawnmower is weak but horizontal on a cylinder mower is great.
I prefer the beast of the Command to the weak Courage.
You could keep going.
Everybody has different experiences.
It can sometimes only take one bad experience to then brand the rest bad.

Pug, you said it better than I ever could. Ric and I are going to disagree on this forever, that is why anyone who uses this forum must realize and take to heart just what you posted.

I dont like any of your engine options . Just being honest here...the engine is the heart of the machine, zero turns tend to work the engine alot harder than a typical garden tractor.Most have much higher blade tip speed and the hydraulic system places a bigger load than a typical lawn tractor...iys because of this that Id try to find a machine with a higher quality engine ( Vanguard/Command/Kawi FV..) I know its more money up front but youll save overtime and resale time.. especially if you have enough lawn to actually need a ztr... But if you are set on the machine you looking at I would avoid the Kohler Courage... Even if you had good luck with it you would never be able to sell the machine. There reputation is terrible..

Yes, I've changed the oil a couple of times. The first at break in and I change the engine oil every 50 hrs and the hydraulic once a season since I never reach the 250 hr recommendation. I use Castrol 10W-30 for the engine and Castrol 20W-50 for the hydraulics. I use only the Kohler recommended oil filter for the motor and Bad Boy filters for the hydraulic system. Like I said, I have not had any problem with the engine other than that one time but I won't use it on much of an angle anymore. Why tempt fate? The only other thing I have noticed is that when cold, you can't get it to stop increasing and decreasing rpm until it gets warm, no matter where you set the choke adjustment. Once it is warm, it will idle and smooth out just fine. I never have even seen a puff of smoke other than that one time.