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Buying a 4500 series with Kubota diesel and wanting to know of any problems with this machine

I have had 4 Ventracs with no significant problems. The Diesel has the least power (24.9) of any of the engines offered for the 4500. I currently have the Kubota gasoline (32.5 hp) and love it.

JackIL

JackIL said:

I have had 4 Ventracs with no significant problems. The Diesel has the least power (24.9) of any of the engines offered for the 4500. I currently have the Kubota gasoline (32.5 hp) and love it.

JackIL

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Jack can your unit be modified for the propane option at a later date?

Yes, the 32.5 hp Kubota engine can be operated on gasoline or propane. A kit ($1600) is required for propane. Propane reduces power to 31 hp max. The reason I don't use it is that the intermittent slope rating drops from 30 degrees to 25 degrees, and I have a lot of slopes in between. Slope rating drops because the 2 propane tanks are mounted high on the back of the ROPS and therefore raise the center of gravity of the tractor.

Jack how do you like the 32.5..my dealer says it's nice but the old vanguard 950G has a lot more torque.. I see you didn't go diesel this time.. It'd be nice to see an aftermarket bolt on turbo kit for the 25 kubota diesel down the road...

RD,
I have had the 31 hp Vanguard gasoline and turbo Diesel in 4231 tractors and now have the 32.5 hp Kubota gasoline in my 4500. They all perform just about the same as far as I am concerned. I should point out that my comments and observations are based on operating all of the tractors at full throttle when mowing and feathering the hydro control on hills to maintain engine RPM above 3000. If you run the engine at less than full throttle there might be differences in torque observed between engines.

You don't have to take my word for it. See the hill climb video comparison. Ventrac Hill Climb Challenge - YouTube

Thank you Jack. I usually dont run much past 3000rpm while mowing, i find the best balance of noise fuel econony and cut quality around 3200 rpm. Aa far as that video, while its entertaining and funny, it shows absolutely nothing relevant. The engines are simply showing there intermittent hp rating.. They werent cutting grass, and the end was right where the hill loads started taking its toll on the small engines.We cut hills way longer and with thick grass,the difference between a 25 and 31hp is way more than that video would have you believe

Be careful of the 4200 31hp turbo diesel they have major overheating problem that nobody is not standing behind. Mine is sitting in the shop now in pieces from this problem that I've been fighting since I purchased this piece, with the motor having a little over 500 hrs. on it!! There are 2 more sitting on the floor at the dealer that they are having a very hard time getting the warrantee even to pick up the tab saying that the it is their own fault that it over heated. This is being said from their head mechanic! I work with field equipment for over 35 years and know when something is wrong but they won't even listen/ saying the rad. is clogged to rinse it out. I would stay clear of any diesel engines in these pieces. Just don't have enough ***. I think that you will start hearing more about these in the future.
I do however like the setup and the Kubota GAS engines with the carb setup, many things that they offer, it helps out a lot with labor costs. I'm looking to get the 4500 z with 32.5 Kubota gas engine. Being that I have over $30,000 in options!! You can see a lot of changes in the new line of ventracs with fans on the hydros and a lot bigger radiator, which I think will be a great improvement! I'll let you know how things turn out. good luck!!

bmack said:

Be careful of the 4200 31hp turbo diesel they have major overheating problem that nobody is not standing behind. Mine is sitting in the shop now in pieces from this problem that I've been fighting since I purchased this piece, with the motor having a little over 500 hrs. on it!! There are 2 more sitting on the floor at the dealer that they are having a very hard time getting the warrantee even to pick up the tab saying that the it is their own fault that it over heated. This is being said from their head mechanic! I work with field equipment for over 35 years and know when something is wrong but they won't even listen/ saying the rad. is clogged to rinse it out. I would stay clear of any diesel engines in these pieces. Just don't have enough ***. I think that you will start hearing more about these in the future.
I do however like the setup and the Kubota GAS engines with the carb setup, many things that they offer, it helps out a lot with labor costs. I'm looking to get the 4500 z with 32.5 Kubota gas engine. Being that I have over $30,000 in options!! You can see a lot of changes in the new line of ventracs with fans on the hydros and a lot bigger radiator, which I think will be a great improvement! I'll let you know how things turn out. good luck!!

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My dealer kept me away from the 31 turbo diesel,I'm very grateful to him as that is what I wanted to buy...when I told him I'd service it on or ahead of schedule he took me in the back of the shop and showed me the pile of junk heads,turbos and ventilated engine blocks.All these engines had under 1000 hrs.he then showed me several machines with the 31 gas l/c that were there for service that had 4000 plus hrs and still didnt use oil,and ran like new.Then we fired up his personal 4200 with 10k hours,and it ran like new...I was sold .. He also has machines with the 31 td that will not run cool enough ,brand new high capacity radiators.and everything perfect and after an hour or steady use on 90 degree day they run over 220...like you said briggs is not standing behind these engines at all,they are denying valid warranty claims for turbos,heads,and complete engines.my dealer said if you have to have a diesel get the non turbo ,they are usually good for 2-3000hrs if maintained.

This past summer I saw a TV commercial by Sunset Outdoor Supply (owner Barry Frey) for Ventrac tractors. Bary brought two tractors to my place to demonstrate but the diesel overheated so I ended up buying the Ventrac 4500K along with the seventy two inch mower deck. I wish I had never seen that commercial. I do like the machine very much when it is running but the constant break down and waiting for repairs has caused great buyer remorse. If I had not already got rid of my finish mower and other implements for my compact Kubota tractor I would give up with this machine. It would be worth it to remove the aggravation that has entered my life. Due the large amount of money involved I知 now stuck with something unreliable. I made the mistake of expecting that a mower costing as much or more than a new car would run for a while. I have a thirty year old Gravely tractor that has never gave me a problem except for replacing the battery.

What issues are you having with your 4500k? I thought they were pretty solid machines.My dealer said to avoid the kubota 32.5 gas due to excessive underhood temps from the cat convertor,but even that has a fix once in the hands of the owner..all the other models are good.

Raw Dodge said:

What issues are you having with your 4500k? I thought they were pretty solid machines.My dealer said to avoid the kubota 32.5 gas due to excessive underhood temps from the cat convertor,but even that has a fix once in the hands of the owner..all the other models are good.

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we ending up doing away with our ventrac dealer that was local and going 70 miles west so we could get the proper work done the moter blew up from overheating and it was the dehatsue 31 hp turbo, replaced with the non turbo fit for the mower. After that we have not had a problem, just make sure you blow the rad. out with air and not water as water will collect more crap than you started with, they also put and overheat switch to cut off pto if it does start to ooverheat but it hasn't been a problem since the swap. It's a very nice piece of equipment but it was a rocky road at the start for sure and I'll say it was more dealer related than ventrac.

Raw Dodge said:

What issues are you having with your 4500k? I thought they were pretty solid machines.My dealer said to avoid the kubota 32.5 gas due to excessive underhood temps from the cat convertor,but even that has a fix once in the hands of the owner..all the other models are good.

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The first thing that happened was that one of the mower blades fell off due to the head of the bolt breaking off from the threaded portion of the bolt. It took a week to get a new bolt. The next thing that happened was the tractor shut down while mowing and would not restart. The vacuum fuel pump was replaced with an electric fuel pump and I got to use the tractor once before it broke again. The next time I wanted to mow grass I got about one hundred feet swath mowed and the mower quit cutting. I found the mower deck belt had come off on one end and is stuck under the pulley and cut part way through. So far about every third time I have attempted to use this very expensive new tractor something has gone wrong with it. At the present time I wait for this third repair.

bmack said:

we ending up doing away with our ventrac dealer that was local and going 70 miles west so we could get the proper work done the moter blew up from overheating and it was the dehatsue 31 hp turbo, replaced with the non turbo fit for the mower. After that we have not had a problem, just make sure you blow the rad. out with air and not water as water will collect more crap than you started with, they also put and overheat switch to cut off pto if it does start to ooverheat but it hasn't been a problem since the swap. It's a very nice piece of equipment but it was a rocky road at the start for sure and I'll say it was more dealer related than ventrac.

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Glad you got a new and better dealer...that is half the battle. The 31 turbo engine, that is another issue by itself...at least you got the better normally aspirated engine now...sad part is that engine was supposed to be their top of the line engine and it was the worst one you could get..

tdhandm said:

The first thing that happened was that one of the mower blades fell off due to the head of the bolt breaking off from the threaded portion of the bolt. It took a week to get a new bolt. The next thing that happened was the tractor shut down while mowing and would not restart. The vacuum fuel pump was replaced with an electric fuel pump and I got to use the tractor once before it broke again. The next time I wanted to mow grass I got about one hundred feet swath mowed and the mower quit cutting. I found the mower deck belt had come off on one end and is stuck under the pulley and cut part way through. So far about every third time I have attempted to use this very expensive new tractor something has gone wrong with it. At the present time I wait for this third repair.

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I had the same thing happen once blade bolt snapped off, I think because it's a big blade on the 72 inch deck and only a tiny 1/2" bolt to hold it on. For me the good part was it came right out easily with just my fingers,then i was able to grab another 1/2 fine thread grade 8 bolt and I was on my way in literally 15 minutes downtime...on the deck belt there is a threaded rod with an eye let it that controls tension on the belt tensioner spring. You need to keep an eye on that spring when doing pm, for me every time I use it I blow off the deck and radiator with the backpack blower . anyway if you see that spring and the coils do not have an air gap between them tighten that bolt until you have an airgap, you likely didn't have enough spring tension from belt stretch or improper initial adjustment. .with out enough tension that belt can jump off like it did on you...

I have a 3400L, vanguard eng., 250 hrs. has lost ground speed and now down to 4 mph, a second identical unit does 7 mph. Any ideas?

I'd check the linkage from the foot pedal to the hydraulic pump,make sure your getting full forward movement, if not find out what's stopping it or adjust the linkage to attain it.If that doesn't do it, verify proper engine RPM with a tachometer if it doesn't have one..if the max engine speed is to low adjust throttle linkage and or governor linkage to get to the proper RPM which should be between 3200 and 3600 depending on the engine.If that is ok,you've likely got a hydraulic pump issue ,at this point a trip to your dealer is in order ,hopefully your still under warranty.

RD already said to check the foot pedal for ground speed problems - I have found gravel under the pedal and one time even in the slot where the pedal linkage goes through into the tunnel between your feet. It is possible that linkage is also restricted under the seat.

I bought a 4500P last fall. I initially wanted diesel power too. My property has steep hills and the previous owner warned me he had multiple accident with his zero turn mower. So I had several dealers demo their equipment. Ventrac was the only competitor that could negotiate most of the terrain on my property and all of the 2 acres of lawn area. I worked with Ventrac's Chris Wesman and their demo team who offered provided a recommendation and their rationale. They recommended the Kawasoki twin fuel injected engine mainly because it is built to sustained operation on steep hills with multiple sumps in the crankcase to ensure the engine is always lubricated. The Vanguard and Kubota engines do not have this feature. This is my first gas tractor as I grew up on a farm with all diesel power. It does seem odd to hear what sounds like a Harley motorcycle engine start up. However, the performance in hot and cold weather has been superb. Chris Wesman and my dealer, Keith Eby both recommended the Kawasaki twin also because they rarely see them in the shop for repair.

Fertilazer / seed spreader for Ventrac 4500P

I contacted my Ventrac dealer today and they told me Ventrac may have stopped production on the ES220 spreader. He believes he may have a used one. Regardless the price at over $2K for a new one seemed over the top. There are other similar spreaders that fit the 2" hitch for about 1/8th of that cost. Has anyone found an aftermarket spreader that works well on their Ventrac ?

bmack said:

we ending up doing away with our ventrac dealer that was local and going 70 miles west so we could get the proper work done the moter blew up from overheating and it was the dehatsue 31 hp turbo, replaced with the non turbo fit for the mower. After that we have not had a problem, just make sure you blow the rad. out with air and not water as water will collect more crap than you started with, they also put and overheat switch to cut off pto if it does start to ooverheat but it hasn't been a problem since the swap. It's a very nice piece of equipment but it was a rocky road at the start for sure and I'll say it was more dealer related than ventrac.

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The turbo diesels by Briggs /Daihatsu were the best engine ever dropped into a Ventrac. Look at 9 hours run time VS 4 hours on a full tank of fuel on the new ones. The down fall of the ventrac turbo's was two fold. One, the E.P.A proclaimed then "dirty" , therefore no more production of those engines. Second, doing and oil change, the turbo charger needed to be primed before starting. (simple as unplugging the white wire on the injection pump and cranking it over till the oil light went out). at $1800.00 for a turbo +labor, its an expensive screw up.

Wrenchit said:

The turbo diesels by Briggs /Daihatsu were the best engine ever dropped into a Ventrac. Look at 9 hours run time VS 4 hours on a full tank of fuel on the new ones. The down fall of the ventrac turbo's was two fold. One, the E.P.A proclaimed then "dirty" , therefore no more production of those engines. Second, doing and oil change, the turbo charger needed to be primed before starting. (simple as unplugging the white wire on the injection pump and cranking it over till the oil light went out). at $1800.00 for a turbo +labor, its an expensive screw up.

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What I find pathetic is the solution should NOT be to unplug a wire, rather to engineer a simple relay which delays the injection pump until properly primed. All of this should have been discovered, as well as all the other mentioned flaws in the other engines during the initial R&D portion of the design.

Ventrac is my dream machine and I may never be able to afford one, although I will always have the dream, just in case my lot in life changes enough to allow me my one real passion, a great little articulating tractor with an abundance of options. Heck, I've followed Ventrac for years and am honored to see Jack Wiley as one of the forum members and posters on here. That retired engineer really sold me on the idea, but to see Aaron Graber (on the Monday morning minute video see Ventrac's channel on YouTube) say a new 4500 with every option (this does NOT include the available aftermarket boom sprayer made to fit a 4500 perfectly see prolawnsprayhields ) costs $136,585 puts a Ventrac 4500 way out of my price range since I would be using this as a homeowner rather that a contractor or someone who would use this as a commercial compact tractor. Also, this price does not include the much needed 46"-48" snow blower so an operator can clear snow off ordinary residential sidewalks. To Ventrac's credit, they are seriously looking into the demand and possibility of making one, but if one must be had now a buyer could go to Steiner and FrankenSteiner their Ventrac with a 48" snowblower.

In essence a Ventrac is a workhorse for a company offering professional landscaping services, a golf course, park and recreation department with football, soccer and baseball/softball fields to maintain, someone who maintains very hilly property (properties) or a very high priced toy for those who could afford to buy just about anything. It certainly is not and never will be the average person's go to choice for a compact tractor when there are John Deere, Kubota and Cub Cadet, Simplicity as well as others who make pretty darn good yet less capable (especially on slope conditions) compact tractors for much less.

While Ventrac IS doing a pretty good job of addressing many issues, I still think there is room for improvement in their R&D design department. My final thought is given the price of these tractors attachments and implements, I believe Ventrac should "Make it RIGHT" whenever there is a failure of any kind, and should have a reporting process to notify the company of failures, even if each sales company only reports one of a specific failure, after so many of the same failure prompting Ventrac to issue a recall to all owners of their affected products and offer free replacement of defective parts or improperly engineered problems and "Make it RIGHT". One could not begin to imagine how upset I would be with a company or a dealer if, as I read earlier in this thread, my expensive compact tractor failed to perform its job because it broke down every two to three times it was used or if I had purchased one of the 4221s with the Vanguard TD and it overheated then some dealer told me Briggs wasn't going to honor its warranty. "Make it RIGHT" should be a corporate requirement at Ventrac's prices.

But then again, that's just MY opinion.

Good luck getting ventrac to email you back. I never got a response when mine was down and I was ready to sell mine. Now that the pump is rebuilt and it is working, I fell back in love with my ventrac.

Splotch said:

Good luck getting ventrac to email you back. I never got a response when mine was down and I was ready to sell mine. Now that the pump is rebuilt and it is working, I fell back in love with my ventrac.

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I believe Ventrac prefers having problems addressed by their dealers rather than sending correspondence directly to their company. However Ventrac has replied to all my questions and suggestions on their Youtube channel. Maybe you could try there the next time you have a problem.

murph said:

Buying a 4500 series with Kubota diesel and wanting to know of any problems with this machine

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I bought an '18 4500Y and quickly installed a turbo which will give the 24HP Kubota diesel about 12 more HP and about twice the torque. I have experienced no problems whatsoever so far. I have used it pretty heavily with a power bucket, snowplow, landscape rake and 72" mower. No overheating problems--just a very good quality machine. I only have a little over 200-hours on it so far. I had a Bobcat Toolcat and while that is better for much heavier lifting and post-hole digging. For landscaping purposes, you can't beat a Ventrac. It's very easy on the terrain and goes anywhere. Would buy again.