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My backordered Vanguard carb from May of last year that had the original ETA of September 2, which then changed to November 25 which promptly changed to November 19 which was then missed and later changed to January 2 of this year, That date has now been missed and new ETA is July 2.
Starting to think I will never get the part to repair this engine on a leaf vacuum for the customer. May have to consider replacing this 3 year old engine with another brand to get it up and running again. Just to let people know that would advise to clean the carb better, be aware that the brass emulsion tube has been broken by the customer when they attempted to remove it for cleaning.

Nothing aftermarket by Stens, Oregon, etc?

@Scrubcadet10 nothing that I can find. did find a generic one on Amazon with reviews showing about a 1 in 3 chance that it will leak fuel as soon as connected to the fuel supply.

Dang I hate when I get one like that.

IL you might have to bite the bullet and try anyway like I had to do with the camshafts that I have to rework here just to get the engines running again. I working a generator right now that had to piece together a carburetor repair kit as the kit has been on back order for three months [I cancelled the order the last week of December]. Once the freeze is over here I get the engine back up running as finally got the carburetor back together.

I think Briggs really screwed up by not paying their vendors and most are not easily fooled this time around so Briggs has apparently been begging for parts to made and delivered. That what you get for dealing with the Chinese in the first place.

My Briggs distributor [A&I] just threaten me with a cutoff if I don't I buy over $2,000 in parts by October 2022. They are just coming out a six month purchase suspension that I had placed them on. They are the reason my purchases dropped from nearly $4,000 per year to $421 in 2021.

Heck they were the reason I cut them off last year for poor service. From supplying improper v-belts lengths, defective spindles, failing to timely return emails, simply lying to me [saying they had called every day for three weeks], complaining they are over worked, charging ridiculous shipping rates [on one order the shipping was $45 on a $192 order], and extreme part delays. And now most their after market parts are higher than OEM and other after market suppliers. I think they are screwing themselves too. Their parent company John Deere is just plain greedy. Sometimes it don't pay to threaten me with a cutoff as I will find another vendor to replace them. It like the local JD dealer that changed my discount to none have lost sales to me as I now order from an out state dealer that gives me the discount and have better shipping rates.

About 20 years ago i looked i to being a Briggs dealer. They wanted me to buy $5k of parts up front and a minimum of $3K a year and i had to stock engines. Nope. There was a parts house in town and they gave me a good discount but they have been gone for many years. When cities and schools all started buying their parts online it did them in. Just got back from the JD dealer buying a $77 neutral switch for a small tractor and they have upped their labor rate from $98/hr to $105/hr.

My local dealer went there back in 2020. Many of their customers are looking for shops like mine now to do the service work. Not many are willing to pay $105 plus parts the fix a Stihl chainsaw that cost $159. I heard one customer to say "I buy over $10,000 in parts from you each year and you are still going charge me like that to fix my saw?, I don't think so.". As he was passing me he said he was going to buy a Husqvarna saw instead. I offered to repair the saw in my shop and now I got a good customer.

Even I had about quit buying most my parts from them as they took away my discount. I now used a local Stihl dealer in the same area as the JD dealer and I order most of JD parts from a dealer outside the state that does give me the discount.

You also got watch your dealer very closely too as sometimes they have two PNs for the same part. I ran into that last year on a coupler I was needing. One was $59 and the other was $36. Same exact part.
[AM117829 and AM145639]

And Stihl has been a real pain when they brought out Zama and barred Zama from selling carburetors and kits that fit only Stihl equipment through their distributors just so Stihl can double dip the customer wallet.

Inform customer a Chi-sneeze carb is all you can get. Might have to tweak the carb to get it to work. Nothing you couldn't handle for sure. Probably buy 5 on them compared to a real OEM carb. Maybe pressure test the needle......

IL, what are the engine numbers or the carb part number? when you get a chance.

Scrubcadet10 said:

IL, what are the engine numbers or the carb part number? when you get a chance.

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84004885

Most of my business is from folks with older stuff and don't want to pay $100 an hour and 50% parts markup. The 2 JD dealers and the 2 other dealers around me are not hurting for business. They are all 4 to 6 weeks behind every spring. There are lots of folks willing to pay that and wait for a month. I don't blame the dealers as they have high overhead. I on the other hand have almost no overhead so at $40 an hour i actually clear more profit per hour than a big dealer. I will probably raise my rate sometime this year. I have all the business i need and my little 24x24 building is not big enough anymore but the cost to build back bigger is too prohibitive.

My shop was already outgrown before I moved into it. About half of my parts are stored in my home. I want to build another building too but as you costs are prohibitive even me doing all the building.

Here I am a $55/hr plus tax. Parts are sold per OEM price files except outside the distributors. Even then most are only mark-up 35% max with parts from JD usually at 20% which allows me to be 10% above parts cost [not counting shc] when I sell to seniors. Most understand that I must pay shipping to get the parts. Sometimes the parts actually sold at a loss if shc is high. I do tend buy extra when I get a deal on parts or use a different OEM part when they are the same part but at a lower cost. Procuring parts can be a challenge that pays off in the long run.

Its that way when I can buy Husqvarna parts for a newer Snapper mower instead going through Briggs and paying them their markup. That one thing about my accounting system inventory setup that helps keeps me profitable and competitive. I could be making more profit using the OEM part numbers but I am little more honest than that give the customer better price while I make a decent profit.

Here is an example of one item that JD actually (acquired) cheaper on than the other OEMs. Now of course Oregon was .02 more each but I had other JD parts I needed so I order a dozen of them and save the separate shipping charges. JD was $1.30 vs the Briggs price of $5.21 for the same part.

BTW if I had brought the Briggs part at $5.21 which I am supposed to sell them at $5.79 so I would lose money if order is below the minimum free shipping order size. The last time I order Briggs parts below the minimum free ship the order was $192 but that came in with a $45 shipping charge. OUCH!!! I didn't even break even on that order.

I don't lose money on parts. Whatever the part cost including any shipping plus my modest markup is what i charge. I don't have any price sheets. If i can use a Stens oil filter it is one price. If you want the same filter labeled OEM John Deere for $12 more doesn't matter to me. I make about the same either way. I have a few OEM only customers and that is fine. I just bought a JD fuel filter for $10 that is identical to my Stens one for $3. Both are labeled made in Israel.

Mentioning fuel filters is an example of one that I buy for JD mowers. JD's AM1160304 is $4.80 but the same exact filter including labeling on the filter from A&I is only $1.73 so the customer would not know the difference but I do which makes a difference to me so I can sell it between 2.66 and 3.40 and still make a profit.

I have just bought my next 10 years worth of fuel filters directly from the factory in China for 95¢ .
Down side is had to order 200 of each type and will need to test them before use .
Down here B & S require you to do an initial order of around $ 20,000 ( aus) , this number keeps on changing a little .
I am then supposed to keep $ 30,000 in inventory which must include complete engines and there is a minimum order value as well plus a minimum annual spend.
Thus it was not worth my while to even think about it and that was before I had to go 1000 km to Melbourne to do the B & S trade course at a $ 3,000 course fee plus annual updates and of course add hotel bills to that.
Kohler were similar .
Stihl impose minimum order values on their dealers & only allow 1 free delivery a month. MTD is the same .

While a lot of workshops consider these regulations oppressive, it is needed because repair franchise shops no longer carry any inventory because it reduces the value of the capital tied up in the business and accountants pay themselves bonuses according to the profit to capital ratio .(US business school invention )
Thus the lower the inventory value the higher the apparent profit
However that makes it really hard for the warehouse to keep up supply and shifts costs to the warehouse.
Now warehouse management theory ( also out of US universities ) turns them into logistics centers with bins that are repurposed on a daily basis and parts only ordered in as needed so when they run out, they allow backorders to accumulate till they have reached a percentage of a minimum order from the factory before they are ordered so when they come in around 1/2 of the order gets shipped that day and they can hold a larger number of sock lines in a smaller space .

This is all based on the assumption that they are monopoly suppliers and the demand is inelastic, both of which are wrong ( like most assumptions in economics )

IT is all about greed and making some one else do all the work so you can maximumize your profit .
One of the few benefits of Covid is it has caused some suppliers to have a big rethink about this method because they ended up having nothing to sell
Picking packing despatching & invoicing all cost money to the point that warehouses have worked out what super market style hardwear shops knew decades ago that single item picks & sales cost more than they make so now you have to buy small items in multi packs.
Rotary have minimum order sizes, usually around 20 to 50 , Stens have started to cotton on & are increasing the lines of multi item "trade packs " .

Kohler worked this out a while back so now use the same fasteners ( different lengths ) regardess of weather a thinner bolt would be strong enough.
B & S OTOH still have not worked that out so you still need 11 different tools to strip one of their engines .

As for Illengine's problem, I gave up trying to get the correct carb a long while ago if they were difficult to obtain & fit a "wrong" carb .
Usually this means having to bend some custom control rods but in the long run that ended up being quicker & cheaper than spending hours trying to find an obscure part

bertsmobile1 said:

As for Illengine's problem, I gave up trying to get the correct carb a long while ago if they were difficult to obtain & fit a "wrong" carb .
Usually this means having to bend some custom control rods but in the long run that ended up being quicker & cheaper than spending hours trying to find an obscure part

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In my case what make this more complicated is the engine fuel shutoff and engine kill switch are incorporated into the carb.

ILENGINE said:

In my case what make this more complicated is the engine fuel shutoff and engine kill switch are incorporated into the carb.

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Have you contacted PartsTree, they show that carb as shipping in 1 business day.. which from my experience means they have it in stock... Wouldn't hurt.
But i imagine if Briggs can't get to your repair center, parts stores won't get it either.

Scrubcadet10 said:

Have you contacted PartsTree, they show that carb as shipping in 1 business day.. which from my experience means they have it in stock... Wouldn't hurt.
But i imagine if Briggs can't get to your repair center, parts stores won't get it either.

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May call them Monday and find out.

ILENGINE said:

In my case what make this more complicated is the engine fuel shutoff and engine kill switch are incorporated into the carb.

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OK,
That will make it a bit more of a challenge.
Victa did that on their commercial 160 cc engines back in the 60's & 70's
I work around that by making up a bracket to take a Honda micro switch .

The schools that I have gone to have been basically a waste of time for me. I usually ended up learning very little that I didn't know before I went to service schools. Usually because I have already been working on the machine for a couple years or more before going to training class.

Having to stock inventory can bite the repair shops in the backside too as we get stuck with parts that no longer moves as things change in our customer base. I still got a batch of electric starters from 2009. Fast moving items I usually keep extra stock just for the convenience of just placing restocking orders to meet the free ship levels. As for screws the last few years I have been buying them in bulk from supplier outside the equipment OEMs. I just can't justify paying $4 for a $0.50 screw. I just ordered the replacement screws for the MTD 710-0599 1/4-20X1/2 flange head screw that if I ordered them through MTD would be 1.99 ea. but though my source I got 50 for 0.16 ea. and I go through a lot of them. Now of course they probably cost more down under.

Bert this is basically what IL is looking at. I take it they are so poorly made that they had incorporate a kill switch in the fuel shut assembly just make sure the operator shuts the fuel flow off when they are not using the engine.

@StarTech the original broken carb is a Nikki. I suspect the replacement carb that is unobtanium is a Ruixing.

Ahhh, the Nikki would usually be the better carburetor. Now I didn't know Nikki made version like this; something new for me to remember.

But Briggs has been switching a lot their replacements to Ruixing carburetors or at the ones I have ordered in the last three years. I think is because is because Briggs now tangled up with the Chinese. I kinda base this on the fact that all the IPLs now have a Chinese version on the Power Portal. Ruixings are Chinese made carbs and the Nikki were usually made in Japan.

Now of course I replace very few carburetors as I repair most of them. I did have a Nikki style replacement carburetor (after market) that I had to modify last year to get the surging out of. A local shop had put it on to replace a surging at idle only Nikki but it surged even worst all the way through full throttle under load.

StarTech said:

The schools that I have gone to have been basically a waste of time for me. I usually ended up learning very little that I didn't know before I went to service schools. Usually because I have already been working on the machine for a couple years or more before going to training class.

Having to stock inventory can bite the repair shops in the backside too as we get stuck with parts that no longer moves as things change in our customer base. I still got a batch of electric starters from 2009. Fast moving items I usually keep extra stock just for the convenience of just placing restocking orders to meet the free ship levels. As for screws the last few years I have been buying them in bulk from supplier outside the equipment OEMs. I just can't justify paying $4 for a $0.50 screw. I just ordered the replacement screws for the MTD 710-0599 1/4-20X1/2 flange head screw that if I ordered them through MTD would be 1.99 ea. but though my source I got 50 for 0.16 ea. and I go through a lot of them. Now of course they probably cost more down under.

Bert this is basically what IL is looking at. I take it they are so poorly made that they had incorporate a kill switch in the fuel shut assembly just make sure the operator shuts the fuel flow off when they are not using the engine.

View attachment 59282

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Like the big companies i have gone the "parts on demand" route. I stock my parts at various places around the country like Stens, jack's, E replacement, pro parts direct.
My customers know i don't stock a large inventory and i will need to order most any part they need except for things like filters, spark plugs, deck wheels and head gaskets. The shops with lots of parts are $100/hr and won't look at it for at least a week or 2. Now i have to motivate myself to go out to the shop and rebuild a 18.5 Briggs since the gasket kit came yesterday. Hard to do when it is 13 degrees. Will need to dig out the heater.

@StarTech My first experience with Ruixing was on Southland tillers around 2012. And they were so cheap that they used unplated float valves. So the float valve would get a case of the crusty's so bad that you would break the valve trying to pull it out of the seat. after the customer owned the tiller for a couple months and MAT, the company that owned Southland would refuse warranty because they claimed it was a fuel problem.

First time I saw a Ruixing on a Briggs was at my 2012 update seminar when they were showing off a new engine. Which also just happens to be around the same time that Briggs starting using the single point fuel shutoff/kill switch setup.

ILENGINE said:

@StarTech My first experience with Ruixing was on Southland tillers around 2012. And they were so cheap that they used unplated float valves. So the float valve would get a case of the crusty's so bad that you would break the valve trying to pull it out of the seat. after the customer owned the tiller for a couple months and MAT, the company that owned Southland would refuse warranty because they claimed it was a fuel problem.

First time I saw a Ruixing on a Briggs was at my 2012 update seminar when they were showing off a new engine. Which also just happens to be around the same time that Briggs starting using the single point fuel shutoff/kill switch setup.

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Honestly I haven't even seen this setup yet in the shop. Nor have I seen non plated float valves (brass ones are the exception) but had a few plated ones to corrode pretty bad and they are nearly impossible to remove so I can see it happening with unplated ones. I have also some of the smaller carburetor to have excess white oxidation in the fuel bowl area. Those I learn to use a little battery strength sulfuric acid to clean them. Many carburetors that corrosion is like a cancer leaving eaten out areas like termites were at work. Just have to remember to remove plastics when do it and soak only the area that need it and only as long as needed. That reminds me I better get another quart on hand.

And that just sounds about right on the warranty denials as I heard of many carburetor problems being blamed on the fuel under warranty. It sorta like everyone wants to blame all fuel related problems on ethanol when it can a storage problem. I even had one customer last season to I can't be having carburetor problem as I only use non ethanol fuel. Well water and trash was in both the tank and the carburetor. I later found he was using an open contain to store the fuel in. Ethanol can be cause but if stored in tightly sealed containers then it not a problem at least not here. I have been using it for years in all my equipment.

Now here lately I have been seeing what appears to be small jelly beans and jelly like substance in some carburetors. Still trying figure out what causing it.

ILENGINE said:

My backordered Vanguard carb from May of last year that had the original ETA of September 2, which then changed to November 25 which promptly changed to November 19 which was then missed and later changed to January 2 of this year, That date has now been missed and new ETA is July 2.
Starting to think I will never get the part to repair this engine on a leaf vacuum for the customer. May have to consider replacing this 3 year old engine with another brand to get it up and running again. Just to let people know that would advise to clean the carb better, be aware that the brass emulsion tube has been broken by the customer when they attempted to remove it for cleaning.

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What's the part number? Have you tried Jack's small engines. They have a very large inventory of parts.

Everybody wants to blame ethanol for carb problems. Ethanol isn't the issue it is the catalyst for water intrusion and the bacteria, mold particles that is contains. Most likely the jelly beans and jelly like substance is the mold similar to diesel "algae" I run 93 octane ethanol fuel in everything and don't have issues with water for the most part. Have issues with water intrusion in my chainsaws but not my fathers saws and they are stored 10 feet apart. Figure that one out.

rustycat said:

What's the part number? Have you tried Jack's small engines. They have a very large inventory of parts.

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84004885 and Jacks shows in in stock in 2-10 business days. Which means they will be in the same waiting game I am. And Briggs with the single nationwide distributor company kind of eliminated anybody else having it in stock, because they will have to get the part from the same company I have it backordered with.

I had the same problem with a flywheeel B&S part but my part came last week now that B&S came off strike.

Looks like Briggs is still in a lot hurt. Now Husqvarna is suing them. This might be old news to many us but it is something new for me to read about.

https://www.lawnandlandscape.com/article/husqvarna-sues-briggs-and-stratton/

Supposedly they came to an agreement.

https://news.cision.com/husqvarna-a...ent-to-resolve-engine-supply-in-2022,c3452036

@mechanic mark So Mark can't do a repair kit because the non removable brass emulsion tube is broken in my carb.

Gottcha IL. 10-4.

Hammermechanicman said:

Most of my business is from folks with older stuff and don't want to pay $100 an hour and 50% parts markup. The 2 JD dealers and the 2 other dealers around me are not hurting for business. They are all 4 to 6 weeks behind every spring. There are lots of folks willing to pay that and wait for a month. I don't blame the dealers as they have high overhead. I on the other hand have almost no overhead so at $40 an hour i actually clear more profit per hour than a big dealer. I will probably raise my rate sometime this year. I have all the business i need and my little 24x24 building is not big enough anymore but the cost to build back bigger is too prohibitive.

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sound just like me have plenty of used parts that customers can use at a very reasonable price and i still make a nice profit and they always tip me and thank me for being there.

Brand: spartshome

spartshome Carburetor Replacemen Amazon / Brand: spartshome​

spartshome Carburetor Replacement for 84004885 799060 Fit for Briggs Stratton Va FREE delivery Thursday, January 13. Order within 9 hrs 36 mins

Your doing more harm than good the longer you keep this machine. Either give it back NO CHARGE or fix it with an aftermarket carb. Its not worth the aggravation and its not worth soiling your reputation over. Blaming everyone and everything else over the problems your having with it makes me question your abilities. Threatening the guy with a new engine sounds like your punishing the customer for your failures. Who gets the old engine I wonder?

CaptFerd said:

Your doing more harm than good the longer you keep this machine. Either give it back NO CHARGE or fix it with an aftermarket carb. Its not worth the aggravation and its not worth soiling your reputation over. Blaming everyone and everything else over the problems your having with it makes me question your abilities. Threatening the guy with a new engine sounds like your punishing the customer for your failures. Who gets the old engine I wonder?

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Your right it is my fault that Briggs filed for Bankruptcy, It is my fault that Briggs is averaging 6-14 months for backordered parts. it is my fault that I haven't installed the 1 aftermarket carb made for this engine that has a 50-50 chance that I will have to repair either before installing it or shortly thereafter and sells for the same price as the OEM carb. And I am not threatening the customer with a new engine. But if parts for this engine are is such short supply or maybe not even available as an OEM or aftermarket what do you do.. Since the customer disassembled the engine prior to bringing it to me and lost all air filter bolts and nuts, the air intake nuts, and bolts, the starter bolts etc, and some of those took 4 months to get because of backordered. So I guess it is also my fault that the customer dumped the bolt bucket off the back of his trailer while trying to deliver the vacuum to me.

STEVES said:

Brand: spartshome

spartshome Carburetor Replacemen Amazon / Brand: spartshome​

spartshome Carburetor Replacement for 84004885 799060 Fit for Briggs Stratton Va FREE delivery Thursday, January 13. Order within 9 hrs 36 mins

Click to expand...

Ordered it. At this point don't have any other options.. Just hate going aftermarket unknown parts sometimes because it cause repair issues down the road. Ran into a Nikki knockoff last summer that the OEM kit wouldn't repair. Had to replace the carb on that one also.

IL, Yes is not your fault totally but I would at least have a discussion with the client about it to see if he wants risk the possible problems with using an after market part.

It is a shame that Briggs put us and themselves in this position. They are the ones that chose to pay the CEO his major bonus instead of paying their bills. So when they stabbed their vendors it left a lot hard feelings between them. Some are not willing to work with Briggs which is making Briggs to hunt for new vendors. But the after market vendors are having a field day with this.

Personally I am surprised that Briggs has not completely folded yet. This parts issue is causing a lot problems not just for us but new equipment manufactures too. I think we will be seeing more Kohler, Kawasaki, and MTD engines in the near future.

And this pandemic is not helping at all as it causing problems across the board. And is getting worst as some my distributors are now demanding for us to help keep them afloat by buying X dollars in parts even though they cant even deliver the parts on time when we are also having problems obtaining working capital ourselves. They are going to need to tighten their belts as just we do.

We are all basically in the same ship that is trying to sink. I am bailing as much water as I can. That meant that I had forego Christmas gifts this time around just to pay my bills as business has dropped off that much here.

I got con by the government into investing most of the promised stimulus money by borrowing before I received the money which I have yet to see a single penny of. You just can't depend on the government when they owe you to pay. $3200 might not sound like a lot but since I only gross $20K last year it is a lot and netted $5K. I had to do very tight inventory control this last year so it has decreased a little from 38K.

@StarTech I agree with every word that you said. Briggs has killed their own market, and I am sure after the Husqvarna fiasco they will be limiting their Briggs engine purchases. I am sure PD is also going to be hurting since they are the exclusive Briggs distributor. And the complete purchase of MTD and Excel by BD will result in MTD engines being used on Hustler. And I am starting to wonder about Oregon since they were also bought out and haven't posted a 2022 parts catalog yet. And several parts that I have tried to get through Oregon recently that was in their 2021 catalog are NLA.

And I don't think the customer in this case will have issues with using a questionable aftermarket carb since it is looking like the OEM may never show up, and I know for a fact that the customer is bad at using ebay/amazon Chinese parts to repair other items that they own. Will keep the OEM carb on backorder just in case I have to go back and replace the aftermarket carb in the future if the OEM ever shows up. My other concern is if a carb is this hard to get what other parts will it need in the future and may not even be available.

That is the problems we both have gone through lately like the camshafts or the carburetor kit I needed for an engine on the PowerMate generator I am repairing. I had to piece together a kit as the regular kit has been on back for three months until I cancel the order last week.

Do you remember how Tecumseh failure did us?

On Oregon catalog I just got the 2022 printed catalog in the mail. It is Red and Black where 2020 year was nearly all Red on the covers. And items going NLA makes sense as the volume drops off to near none profit. I just hope the online site is getting updated too as it easier to search for items when you have a PDF or online site.

I did get some good news about the camshafts the two 793880 I miss placed about 1 yr ago were found yesterday. I had just had them in the wrong bin or they were lost due to a programming by my software vendor. Until recently the software wasn't carrying over my bin location when an item got superseded so it ended up in limbo until the annual physical inventory. I had thought someone had walk off with them. I working getting more bins setup but boy are expensive. I got six a few weeks and they were $200 for the palletizing versions. It was the shipping that hurt so much, they were light but very large.

And don't mention a Hustler Super Z with a Briggs to me right now. Yesterday it took nearly an hour to get the engine off. The previous owner had install a Briggs install in of the Kawasaki. Boy what a pain to get the engine mounting bolts. I will need get a junk 1/2 wrench and cut it in half or buy a set stubby wrenches. I did finally got the engine off now the left hydro comes off early this week.

I still got the put crankcase on and rebuild the hydro pump. Both are leaking like there is no gaskets. It be my first Hydro Gear BDP21L pump to completely tear down.

StarTech said:

Do you remember how Tecumseh failure did us?

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In my case it started with McCulloch and their bankruptcy and then they claimed that products on authorized dealer would be fully warrantied until they had the warehouse sale in California which required that all products sold at the sale was supposed to be "sold as is no warranty" and those products ended up on the shelves at K-Mart. And the response was since they could tell the difference between dealer products and K-Mart products they voided the warranty on dealer stock. Several thousand in saws on the shelf has to sell as is no warranty at cost or below.

The Murray bankruptcy that killed any pending warranty claims and started us down the path of Powermore engines by MTD because MTD saw Briggs as a mower competitor at that point and MTD refused to purchase Briggs engines for a few years.

And the Tecumseh bankruptcy that they claimed there would be parts available for 10 years and six months later parts were becoming NLA. Sticking dealers with a few hundred to a couple thousands dollars in parts that basically became worthless.


And now the Briggs fiasco that everybody claims is due to the bankruptcy but in reality started in 2017 when parts started backordering and they tried to blame it on everything from software update issues, to the changing customer environment. But is doesn't help that Briggs has outsourced product support for every consumer products sold at big box stores. Brute made by Amerisun, Pulsar, and Ardisam. Murray which when it came back was made by MTD and Husqvarna but is now made and serviced by an Chinese company with no dealer network, and an email to enquire about parts or service,


And after 24 years I am considering giving it up. Still enjoy working on stuff, but just don't have the drive anymore.

Well I haven't been in lawn care business that long (started 2009) so I didn't know all the facts about McCulloch dropping out of the market other than they just disappeared. We had a couple nice McCulloch saws that I had to ran the last ten years of their useful life using a manual oiler. It sorta like why I had given up on Homelite chainsaws when they got sold out the JD, just couldn't get parts.

You can see how well that worked for Kmart. Kmart and their parent company Sears are just about completely gone now too. Amazon and Walmart have really hurt them and that not allowing for places like eBay that also hit them. All these companies going under is quite disheartening to mechanic that prides himself on doing quality workmanship.

As for Briggs I knew something was amidst when parts were starting to get hard to get which was why I started ordering extras for more common repairs. Now those stock items are running thin ice too.

In the 40+ yrs that I have been repairman I have learned never trust a company's spin on things. I was once at a supply conference in Dayton where the company that I work for said absolutely they could get what I was trying to sell so I went out and got the orders to only look like a fool when they couldn't deliver the products. I cornered the company rep and he simply ever saying it. Really the only person you can trust is yourself.

It seems every repair industry I gotten into has died off due all the cheap Chinese crap coming into the country. Personally I just trying to make to 65 (2-1/2 years away and counting down) so I have at least have medical insurance and a small monthly check. Probably will still do repairs but at least then I won't have to lose sleep over it. There are plenty of headaches running a company for sure. I have been known to walk out back and just scream as loud as I can over trying to deal some of the distributors. Just be my luck that when I start fishing again that either the rivers all be dried up or there is no healthy fish to be caught.

My plan is similar to yours but I am planning to take the reduced SS amount at 62. In my case I have 8 years to go. But due to progressing minor to moderate spondylosis with nitrogen gas formation at L1-L5 and increasing stenosis at the L5-S1, working to 62 may be a fantasy.

Even at 65 I having to take reduced benefits. I don't qualify for full retirement benefits until 66 yrs 10 months but I will not able to make it there so it is reduced benefits. Considering that you got eight years to go that means full retirement benefits wouldn't be until you reach 67.

The way things are going we be lucky if anything is available when we try to get it.

As for the Spondylosis my mother had something very similar. She had three discs completely missing. She was in constant pain but it was Demetria that finally took her out. She couldn't do housework because of it. Her specialist said the only thing could be done was medicate for the pain.

Correct Startech, 67 full retirement age. In my case the degenerative disc disease is causing mild sciatic and moderate low back pain, but mostly front of thigh numbness followed by flaming ice picks if I stand too long.. And on some occasions will have muscle spasms that will drop me on my knees and if I am lucky sometimes I will see stars.

I understand some of the pain as I spent a lot years with a dislocated vertebra myself. It finally finally pop back in place about a year ago. When it did I thought I broke my back. Yet I still have very painful spells if I step wrong just walking flat surfaces. Now I get a lot hip pain where I can't walk much than a 1000 feet but because I got left hip joint that likes pops out every so often and that is very when it happens too. I just have to deal with these and known my limits. Yes looks crazy for me to picking 75-100 lb engines with a 2 ton engine lift but it is what keeps me moving and not of commission because severe pain.

Other than that my only major health problem is high blood pressure. A few years ago now I was having stroke like spells that put me in the horsepital for 3 days in ICU because my whole left was shutting down. Boy I was lucky to not be wheelchair bond. Blood pressure over 250/120 does it, now I am running around 130/95. Today it is a little low at 110/75. At least I don't have the migraines like I did, I still go though a lot Excedrin pills.

Nothing like health issues to sideline you. In June 2014 I had gotten out of bed about 4:30 AM, had breakfast and then when and sit in my recliner and played on my laptop until around 5:30. Went back to the kitchen and went to pickup something off the kitchen counter and remember thinking that I don't feel good before I hit the floor. Came to and tried to push myself up with my hands and passed out again. Came to again and made it to my knees before passing out again. At this time my family was alerted to my struggles. Came to a fourth time and made it to my feet before passing out again. Finally was able to make it to my feet and had the sudden urge to use the bathroom, followed about 20 minutes later with pain in my left jaw, across my chest down my left arm and down both legs.

Ended up in the ER with a nitroglycerin patch on my left arm, two tubes of 2 mg of morphine in my system to stop the pain. All kinds of blood work, heart monitor, 5 EKG's and a cardiac stress test over my 2 day hospital stay all came back normal. Spend the next six months trying to regain enough strength to work more than 2 hours three days a week. Fought random shortness of breath that would come out of the blue and last about 30 seconds. And over a several month period realized that I had lost part of my memory. And then to get treated by the medical profession like it never happened.

Sounds like you had one type of stroke.that was misdiagnosed. You were lucky to have family around.

And yes doctors at times don't seem to care or to listen to our problems. Right now I have been out of my regular blood meds for over a month [ran out December 1] now I having to wait for blood work to come back as the doctor insists on the test before he will renew my prescription even though I am having no problems other than out medicine. At least I was smart enough not to throw the pills the doctor change me off of. Now I back to that nagging cough but at least the pressure levels are fine.

For me I don't have anyone around any more so it up to me to act quickly when I can. I keep my cordless phone all the time now; cell phones don't work very well at all here]. This is really scary as I have had food poisoning 3 x since 2014. All caused by supermarket brought foods. The last was Bologna so I don't even buy it any more. I had food poisoning enough now that I can recognize the symptoms and can take some precautions to stop it. But boy not being to stand without passing out can really shake you up. Before that I had it twice from restaurant prepared foods.

ILENGINE, I do not know if you overlooked my post regarding OEM carburetor being in stock on page 4 for $117 or you just decided to go with aftermarket carburetor. thanks, Mark

mechanic mark said:

ILENGINE, I do not know if you overlooked my post regarding OEM carburetor being in stock on page 4 for $117 or you just decided to go with aftermarket carburetor. thanks, Mark

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Mark, A lot of the time those "In stock" Google are not accurate. I have learn to verify that item is actually in stock especially when Power Distributors and several other vendors are listing it as on back order. I gotten burned a few times before I learned my lesson about Google searches.

mechanic mark said:

ILENGINE, I do not know if you overlooked my post regarding OEM carburetor being in stock on page 4 for $117 or you just decided to go with aftermarket carburetor. thanks, Mark

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Mark I saw the post with the link that you listed. It says ships within 1 business day "if in stock" And since nobody else is showing it in stock especially the only authorized Briggs distributor in the entire USA, and hasn't had any in over 8 months I doubt anybody else will have OEM carbs in stock.

Thanks ILENGINE & StarTech for information, have a good week.
For curiosity's sake I did call the B&S parts store & talked to someone from India I believe about availability of carburetor. You men were correct, not in stock even though website says so, had to order from vendor & then 15 days later so & so & so.
As for back pain I have been seeing my Chiropractor for over 20 years. I see the Dr. once a month for preventive maintenance, pops my lower back & neck & keeps me lined up.

ILENGINE said:

Correct Startech, 67 full retirement age. In my case the degenerative disc disease is causing mild sciatic and moderate low back pain, but mostly front of thigh numbness followed by flaming ice picks if I stand too long.. And on some occasions will have muscle spasms that will drop me on my knees and if I am lucky sometimes I will see stars.

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I feel for you. I had a herniated disc that on many occasions would drop me to the floor. I was getting by on oxy and vicodin. Finally saw a good chiropractor who treated me 3 times a week for almost a year. Cost me a small fortune because of crap insurance but it was worth it. Alternative was surgery and maybe disability. I still have sciatica and if i over do it i wind up flat on my back for a day or two.

Hammermechanicman said:

I feel for you. I had a herniated disc that on many occasions would drop me to the floor. I was getting by on oxy and vicodin. Finally saw a good chiropractor who treated me 3 times a week for almost a year. Cost me a small fortune because of crap insurance but it was worth it. Alternative was surgery and maybe disability. I still have sciatica and if i over do it i wind up flat on my back for a day or two.

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I do feel your pain & thank the heavens that down here we have free health care ( if you don't die waiting ) .
This last 2 years has been a big wake up for me, having to drag ones self along the floor in agony to the bathroom was not fun and needing to use a hose to clean the bum was not fun either, but as I can now wipe the backside & pick the nose, I will not complain.
Still only good for about 1/2 days work even if I spend 18 hours trying to do it.

And Mark as for buying "in stock" parts on line
Currently I have $ 1800 worth of parts ordered before chrissie , all shown as "in stock" that were in fact not in sock.
I have just this second finished with a supplier who lied to me when I ordered, then failed to get back to me by email 3 times so I got the credit card company to reverse the purchase and what do you know, the vendor ran me in less than 2 minutes to have a bitch .

As for the stuff that supposedly shipped
The Stens order shipped on the 22nd according to their web page, but apparently sat on the warehouse floor till the 5;10 pm on the 4th before the couriers picked it up.
They were running very late so they sent the Tardis to pick it up because it arrived at the local distribution center 10 hours before it was picked up 6:05 am on the 4th
And people wonder why I consider all of this track & trace a total waste of time & money.
The couriers 3 times said they would call back, they didn't but they did sent emails to Stens to say it would be delivered that day , twice but on both occasions the web page did not indicate the driver had scanned the item in and funny enough it did not materialize on either day .

So it is off now on a 4hr round trip to get the parts from another suppler who was not used in the first place because they alerted us in the first week of December they would be closed till the 10th as I promised the custome come hell or high water his mower would be back to his team today without fail.

Another supplier bombarded me with all sorts of discount deals ( which I stupidly took up ) on orders placed in the last 2 weeks before the closure .
All were supposed to be ready for pick up on the 23rd, no mention that on the 23rd they would be closed till the 10th as well.
And now they tell me the parts that were "in stock" on Dec 17 are expected to arrive on the 26th which would be a miracle as that is a public holiday .

So that is 2 less local suppliers I will be dealing with, and then they wonder why I "waste my time" sourcing parts directly from factories in China .

I needed a spindle assy for a RER Snapper. Showed in stock. Got it a month and a half later. I called and the lady who answered confessed everything always shows in stock. I won't be a tool and name names but everybody would recognize the name of the company. I needed some parts for a tractor. Called Steiner and the fellow i talked to was helpful and told me one of the parts was out stock and suggested an alternative. "In stock" may just be wishful thinking.

Hammermechanicman said:

I needed a spindle assy for a RER Snapper. Showed in stock. Got it a month and a half later. I called and the lady who answered confessed everything always shows in stock. I won't be a tool and name names but everybody would recognize the name of the company. I needed some parts for a tractor. Called Steiner and the fellow i talked to was helpful and told me one of the parts was out stock and suggested an alternative. "In stock" may just be wishful thinking.

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I think I may dealt with a company like that. I only dealt with Steiner a few times so cant comment on their service other than no problems with what I ordered. Just a heads some the new Snappers are using Husqvarna parts. The Snapper rider I repaired I save nearly 50% on the parts instead ordering them through Briggs but I got lucky as I work on a lot Husqvarna riders.

In the last I had a lot problems getting parts like Bert. But I think he got his vendor's attention. That is huge order for me to place with just one vendor. Engines are about the only thing I order in that price range. Most of my orders are in the $200-$500 range.

As my business was growing every year my overall volume was increasing. But this last it stood at a stand still with me just ordering replacement parts for restock with a few new items. Briggs has given so much grief lately that I was sitting on a $1000 order. Luckily Stens started carrying some that gaskets and blades at good prices so the pending order has dropped to $220.

Gardner has been on suspension since the first of August because of their credit card policy. They started charging a convenience fee but is offering ACH payments. They simply refuse to switch me over and I am simply refusing to buy anything until they do. So it only cost them a couple thousand last year and the year before of the four thousand I normally buy through them and RBI had pickup most of that business. I admit last couple of years I need more Kawasaki parts than I normally do and Gardner don't carry them. But back August RBI was only at $1,900 with Gardner at $2,420. A lot of Husqvarna and MTD did switched over to RBI because the CC problems. It only $150 on $10K but it the principle of it. I rather use that for hardware purchases.


Boy I just notice that ABP has block a lot ads on this site whew. Glad I am running it.

See the problem is companies are run by accountants with MBA's who believe their own spin & refuse to accept they can make a dud decision.
last year the biggest Telco down here that is 1/2 owned by the government ( bad idea ) decided that they would save $ 300,000 a year if they stopped taking payment by cheque through the post offices in a combination of the 75¢ the Post office charged them for taking the payment and the interest on the overdraft saved because direct debit would have the money i their bak account 4 days earlier .
A month latter they recindered that plan then 3 months latter reintroduced it .
That means I would have to drive 15 miles to pay my phone bill by cheque .
The "help desk" person told me that no one uses cheques any more and in any case shortly they would not accept cash either so I had to pay them on line.
So I changed telcos to one that resells the same product for $360 less per annum via Paypal because PP is the only secure third party payment system &
I control the payments not the receiver . So they now get $ 40 ( their cut ) a year in place of $ 45 a month to provide me with the same service.
Only an accountant could call that a good business plan.

The long & short of it no one who wears a shinny suit cares what any customer does and how many sales they loose.
All they care about is pretending they are running the business properly so the share price goes up.
This year was the second year that Telstra made a higher profit from reduced sales .

OTOH if it makes you feel good no buying from a particular supplier then go ahead & do it but the supplier really does not give a wrinkled rats rectum about you & how much you do or do not spend . The area rep who gets a cut of your spend might, but no one else in the management will .

About a half century ago there was a Certified Auto Parts store that gave me the mechanics discount because the old guy who ran it was a good friend of my father's. He had to list my sales under another mechanics account as i would not qualify for the discount as i didn't move enough $$$ a year. He said corporate didn't want to bother tracking small accounts. He still made money off me so he was happy. The mechanics discount was sometimes almost half of the retail price.

I agree they just don't care but I do as it hits my bottom line too. And it was us small businesses that built these companies but they don't care. Enough of us quits it might get their attention.

It sorta like A&I demanding me to spend at $2K with per year when I could easily done that last year if their products were up to par and the sales rep actually did his job when I ask for sales support. They are threatening to cut me off but said they are willing for me to buy from another A&I dealer which is not going to happen as I know the amount of mark-up involved. Most likely I will just dump them first and switch over to Oregon and Stens more; so much for a 12yrs business relationship. The killer is high shipping rates for smaller than $200 orders which would ship for free if order $200.01 or more. But on a $192 order they had hit me for $45 in shipping charges. Ouch.

And yes I have ran into several places that simply refuses cash payments locally. I have not used physical checks in several years here but it is because of the untimely mail times.

The situation with your telcom is sorta like it was with me and Power Distributors. I tried to get them to give me the same discount price on parts as I got through A&I but they simply decided to close my account instead.

And yes I do realize I like poppy seed in an ocean of whales so I don't even matter to them.

I have pretty happy with stens. Shipping is reasonable and customer service is decent.

Hammermechanicman said:

I have pretty happy with stens. Shipping is reasonable and customer service is decent.

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I have been using them since 2017. I started using them direct when TEW, Inc went under and left me in one heck of a bind. Just got watch the pricing at times as some are OEM parts with a higher cost. But I did get some good news back in December from my sales rep. After I requested the pricing file for my system, she up my discount which makes them a lot more attractive to buy from. But is why I do my research before buying items.

I requested the price file mainly because I got tire of having to enter every new part PN info manually. It didn't include every part they sell but did include most of them. Right now I in my dead zone business wise so I can't purchase a lot of unknowns until the season starts back up. It also makes it a lot easier to look-up parts using my internal database search where I cross reference parts to other vendors.

StarTech said:

I agree they just don't care but I do as it hits my bottom line too. And it was us small businesses that built these companies but they don't care. Enough of us quits it might get their attention.

It sorta like A&I demanding me to spend at $2K with per year when I could easily done that last year if their products were up to par and the sales rep actually did his job when I ask for sales support. They are threatening to cut me off but said they are willing for me to buy from another A&I dealer which is not going to happen as I know the amount of mark-up involved. Most likely I will just dump them first and switch over to Oregon and Stens more; so much for a 12yrs business relationship. The killer is high shipping rates for smaller than $200 orders which would ship for free if order $200.01 or more. But on a $192 order they had hit me for $45 in shipping charges. Ouch.

And yes I have ran into several places that simply refuses cash payments locally. I have not used physical checks in several years here but it is because of the untimely mail times.

The situation with your telcom is sorta like it was with me and Power Distributors. I tried to get them to give me the same discount price on parts as I got through A&I but they simply decided to close my account instead.

And yes I do realize I like poppy seed in an ocean of whales so I don't even matter to them.

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People do not seem to get the CEO / MBA mentality
A business to them is something they buy & sell the same as you buy parts & sell them.
And all business are the same so customers do not matter unless they account for a double digit percentage of income .
Most of them do not even see a number that is lower than 100,000 if not 1,000,000.
Because of the low par stock nearly every order I place has at least 1 item go to back order.
Then All Power had the Stens distribution contract I had a long chat with one of the accounts staff who ended up doing a spreadsheet recording the number of backorder deliveries where their actual freight cost exceeded the gross mark up on the part .
Ended up being around $ 30,000 / month
The

As for freight charges, they are a policy matter but as you should know, it costs money to pick, pack & post an order plus more to raise an invoice then recieve the money . The WWW has now widened price shopping so having the lowest price on the web is now a big money maker .
To do that you cut your margins ( and squeeze your suppliers ) .
Again in the minds of the MBA managers you work out the fixed costs of running the warehouse then add an amount to recover this money from the least profitable sales, the idea being that it will ( & does ) encourage customers to place larger orders which are usually more profitable to fill .

FWIW, the biggest wholesalers do not do free freight for orders under $ 1000 and only then to customers who pay on invoice.
The second biggest wholesalers do not do free freight either but discount 5% if you pay on the delivery day and that discount goes down to 0 % each week till you get to 30 days.
Freight charges are a good way to evaluate the efficency of a warehouse, those that are run properly with suficient volume have very low freight rates .

I just wish I had the volume to justify spending and stocking a lot of items but you as hinted at the internet is a huge problem for us small business. Customers see the online prices and think we are just ripping them off not realizing that we need to make a profit to stay in business ourselves. Those Chinese items that most of us know to of poor quality is what a lot my customer hit me with when it come to pricing.

Some have learned the hard way when they have to send parts back several times because they are made wrong and incur shipping charges and restocking fees.

What worst is the playing field is not level either when it comes to shipping charges. Large volume shippers gets cut rates but places like mine has to make up for these deep discounts by paying full retail prices. This is why I quit selling on eBay as my costs were consuming all the profit.

Bert you have convinced me to dump A&I just to get rid my headaches with them. Sometimes it is better just cut ties as they have been a pita every since they brought out Sunbelt Outdoors three years ago.


And I probably going to dump Gardner too but that depends on the next few months and their attitude. I have been using Gardner for just a little over three years so they are not as deeply depended on as Sunbelt was.

Now RBI has only a couple years of use but they seems to more willing the work with me. Just wished they carried General Transmissions, Hydro Gear and Tuff Torq parts like Gardner.

As you can see on just these vendors sales, two took took a fairly good hit back in the 2020 year due Covid. Rbi was just brought on board at the end of 2019 so their figures are not showing a turn down purchase wise. A&I purchases cames to a full stop in June and Gardner came to a full stop in August. Their faults for sales to stop in 2021.

I sometimes have customers see a part on cheapbay and question my price or they buy the part there. I tell them i don't give any kind of warranty on any customer supplied parts and if they want the $9 coil or $5 belt that's fine. You buy it. I will charge you to put it on and if it fails not my problem. Don't have many folks like that but like i always say. You need customers just not every customers. Had a guy buy a JD maint kit for $75 and provided it so he could save money on parts. He didn't save any money. As much as i hate it i can get brand name tires from Amazon cheaper than stens or other online parts houses. I just got a set of Carlisle brand tires for a ZTR from the Amazon monster and the order was fulfilled by an online parts house and the same tires were more expensive on their website plus shipping.

I do the same on customer provided parts.

So far my distributor has been cheaper on Carlisle tires then the supposedly same tires on Smile Amazon where I have a business account. I can get cheaper even than some of the Chinese tires that I can get through A&I.

But there are vendors that sell on Amazon cheaper than direct sales one example is DB Electrical even the parts get shipped out the same warehouse so I buy most my after market starters through Amazon.

So I have seen the same thing as you experience on parts like the tires.

Are Kawasaki parts easier to get than Briggs parts?

Currently yes at least on my part as the distributor here usually has them in stock. Now I do have a few Kawasaki carburetor parts on back order but are not commonly ordered items. Even when the Kawasaki parts are back ordered usually arrives at the distributor within two weeks.

This unlike the current problems with Briggs where some parts have been on back order for nearly six months. Now take with the fact Briggs is trying to recover from bankruptcy which a lot of hard feeling between them and their suppliers. Before this all engine parts supplies were very good at providing parts in a timely matter.

I do foresee problems in near future for all our vendors due the current Covid-19 surge. Of course the current political climate doesn't help either.

One of my complaints currently is that the distributors are acting like it is their customers fault for the current problem when we are suffering just like they are because of hte current business turn down. In 2020 year I lost nearly a quarter of my sales because Covid. It was recovering nicely in 2021 but this latest Covid surge is going to hurt income again.

Like hammer I charge extra for fitting parts supplied by the customer, usually $ 30 .
Like Star I get cranky when I see parts that have come from one of my wholesalers listed on a web shop for less than my cost price.
RGS are doing this on a lot of parts because they have installed an ex supermarket executive into top level management.
As we know mowers & weekly food shopping are not the same thing
Result of this is of course more parts bought direct from manufacturers and less from RGS
Mr Woolworths looks like he is going to drop all of the slow moving or very old items in favour of high volumes of current model parts .
Right now I am looking at sending some coils to China to have them made because RGS dropped them and I use at least 4 a year.
And of course these old mowers are the ones that I service regularly and make up my bread & butter sales .

Like Bert and Star I have had distributors/manufacturers sell directly to the customer cheaper than I can buy it from the distributors. Poulan Pro Z turns for $250 below dealer cost at Rural King. Generac selling on Amazon $90 dollars cheaper than Dealer price and also offering free shipping on 10K watt generators.

Had a good laugh a few years ago at a local Walmart when they were bragging about the number of power equipment units they sold per year. And I broke their bubble when I told them that their annual sales was half of what the local Rural King would sell on their one day No Sales Tax Saturday sale.

Bert this where when you have the time to do procurement you can things work out for the better. Several of my distributors sell Xtreme PTO clutches along with Xtreme selling direct. I just do my price checks and order from whoever has the best price. I can see where different distributors get different pricing plans.

I do the same thing on other parts too. One has the best on Husqvarna parts but charges more the MTD parts as where the other has better MTD part prices than on Husqvarna. Basically it is trying to the best overall prices on an order that finally wins out. They both probably hate me for working the system but it takes it to keep a small shop profitable while giving a fair price to customer and staying competitive with other shops.

StarTech said:

Bert this where when you have the time to do procurement you can things work out for the better. Several of my distributors sell Xtreme PTO clutches along with Xtreme selling direct. I just do my price checks and order from whoever has the best price. I can see where different distributors get different pricing plans.

I do the same thing on other parts too. One has the best on Husqvarna parts but charges more the MTD parts as where the other has better MTD part prices than on Husqvarna. Basically it is trying to the best overall prices on an order that finally wins out. They both probably hate me for working the system but it takes it to keep a small shop profitable while giving a fair price to customer and staying competitive with other shops.

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Xtreme is another one that likes to sell a clutch to the dealer for $169 with a suggested retail of $249 and then sell if directly on their website for $179. And Arrowhead is the parent company of XtremeOPE which also owns, Atlantic Quality, All Balls powersports, and Stens, but if I remember correctly Arrowhead starters are also marketed under DB electrical,

That would explain why I get the PTO clutches cheaper thru Stens.

All balls were recently noted in an Stens Email to me. I don't a whole a lot the All Balls stuff. Matter this last year was pretty dead ATV repair wise. I did several Chinese kids ATV but that was about it.

So do Ariens family have a controlling interest in Arrowhead or did they sell out of Stens ?
AFAIK Extreme are sold through Stens down here but I did a search for a customer the other day & noticed that All Mowers were selling the Xtreme clutch for $ 179 ( Aus ) which is about $ 120 US from a different wholesaler while the Stens wholesale price is $ 235 ( and the Stens clutch was not listed )
I use All Mowers as they pay a fortune for SEO so always come top is every parts search & I usually take 50¢ to $ 1.00 off their price then remind the customers that the AMR price + 15 % GST ( which I do not pay ) & $ 15 delivery on orders under $ 200 and they don't have it is stock where as I usually do have it in stock.
All Mowers also use the wholesalers part number as their SKU so I cal tell where the part is coming from and from that the potential quality of the part

Bert Ariens sold Stens to Arrowhead. November 30 of 2016. Just realized they also got JThomas in the mix. Just also found out the Arrowhead also owns Trilink chain

ILENGINE said:

Bert Ariens sold Stens to Arrowhead. November 30 of 2016. Just realized they also got JThomas in the mix. Just also found out the Arrowhead also owns Trilink chain

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Tar that is good to know.
I met Peter Ariens when he was here after BY-Norm who were the Stens distributor went bust due to being conned by Tecumseh & paying a fortune for the Aust franchise 6 months before Tecumseh went bust ( no morals is big business ) .
I would have thought it was latter than 2016 .
Not being a franchise workshop I don't get the corperate skuttlebutt

Just for an update. Received my Amazon carb yesterday and got it installed this morning. Engine runs like a champ.

ILENGINE said:

Just for an update. Received my Amazon carb yesterday and got it installed this morning. Engine runs like a champ.

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I don't deal with the number of engines some of you guys do, but I've bought four Chinese carbs for personal use over the years and they have all worked great. They even sent me the tool to adjust the two cycle carb.

@catman606 They may be good carbs and not cause any issues. but sets up the potential for the customer to have issues due to bad fuel in the future, and then takes it to a different dealer and that dealer tries to order a carb repair kit and then finds out the OEM kit doesn't work. And in this case the Amazon carb really wasn't any cheaper than the OEM carb I am waiting on.

This why you got to have experience techs working on the equipment. But as you said IL it does help the next tech down the road if we use only OEM parts. This is very reason I repair the wiring harnesses the way I do. Even when I did bypass surgery on the Z830A, Z950A, and the Z950R I did it in such a way that it could be easily undone if the next tech decides to replace the control modules. Also when installing rocker covers I always transfer the correct model, type(spec), and date code to the new part as I personally hate it when I get one that this is not done.

Another issue with the aftermarket carb kits is the fuel lines that come with them. The yellow stuff is a knockoff of Tygon. The stuff usually fails in a year or two and the black stuff is no better. If i must resort to a aftermarket carb i never use any fuel line that comes with it. Real tygon has white printing on the side of it.

catman606 said:

I don't deal with the number of engines some of you guys do, but I've bought four Chinese carbs for personal use over the years and they have all worked great. They even sent me the tool to adjust the two cycle carb.

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The difference is.
When people buy a dud carb from an on line shyster, the equipment ends up in one of our workshops with the line
I don't know what is wrong it can't be the xyz becaause I have just replaced it .
Nine time out of 10 it is the xyz because it was bad out of the box
about 1/2 the customers accept this but the other 1/2 scream & carry on because they think I am forcing them to buy one of my more expensive xyz's when all that needed to be done was a "secret adjustment " that I will not reveal to them because all of technicans are gypsies trams & thieves .
Even worse is when a defective xyz has created a problem down stream , like a bad batch of started that over time melt the battery cables & burn out alternators because they just about flatten the battery every time they get used and the owner turns their mower on & off 30 times each mow .
It is a lottery
Some vendors are good & only sell products that they know are good.
Most unfortuneately are just surplus goods retailers , buy what ever is cheap & sell it for a profit with no idea about what they are selling, where it came from and why it was so cheap ( Quality Control rejects )

And they don't back up what they sold either Bert.

Oh well the carburetor kit for the 19G engine I just finished which was on back order for two months just went NLA. I glad I pieced together a kit from individual parts instead..

StarTech said:

And they don't back up what they sold either Bert.

Oh well the carburetor kit for the 19G engine I just finished which was on back order for two months just went NLA. I glad I pieced together a kit from individual parts instead..

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Oh I agree the aftermarket carbs wouldn't be something that a repair shop that stands behind their work would want to use. But I do my own repairs, so I know what I'm getting.

catman606 said:

Oh I agree the aftermarket carbs wouldn't be something that a repair shop that stands behind their work would want to use. But I do my own repairs, so I know what I'm getting.

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The only problem is that I was referring to Briggs OEM parts. They will not back up their warranty when it is a non dealer that buys from them. I lost a couple hundred dollars on bad fuel solenoids. It is the same with Kohler too as lost money having to buy two coils that were bad under warranty. Both want the local dealer to file the claims and when they don't then both say tough luck.

Looks like my backordered Vanguard carb from almost a year ago has been shipped with deliver tomorrow.

catman606 said:

Oh I agree the aftermarket carbs wouldn't be something that a repair shop that stands behind their work would want to use. But I do my own repairs, so I know what I'm getting.

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A repair shop, a good one will repair equipment to the directions of the customer and not brand snobbery
We buy aftermarket carbs from wholesale suppliers who purchase them from certified factories with good quality control & down here sell them with 12 month exchange warranty
I for one never fit OEM branded parts unless I can not get an aftermarket part of known good quality or the customer specifically asks for only OEM parts.
If I was to use nothing but OEM parts then there would be 200 unfinished jobs in the yard and my average turn around would be over 6 months which is not much use for the customer .
A good repair shop guarantees their work and all mine come with 12 months warranty and they honour this warranty without question.
own here I get genuine parts from vendors in Hong kong faster than I get B & S parts from the local dealers
MTD parts will arrive faster when ordered from Jacks Small Engines in the USA than the local MTD dealer unless I pay a $ 75 priority pick & delivery fee.
Stihl parts are the same .
Stihl have a minimum order so I either have to ring every Stihl dealer in the region to see if they are about to place an order and then of curse have to dive to Woop Woop to pick them up .
or
I can place the order with Hurzl in China and have it delivered in 2 weeks to my door for 1/2 to 1/3 the price
Kohler parts come from a Prime Line dealer in the USA because while Kohler do keep a good inventory, I can get a good quality aftermarket from the USA faster & cheaper delivered to my door than I can get it from a local dealer 15 miles away .
making the customer wait 3 to 200 times as long for their repair & charging them 2 to 3 times as much is not providing a good service to anyone .