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Valve Guide replacement 19.5hp

#1

M

markt

I have a 19.5hp 42E707-2631E1 That I need to bore the valve guides and replace them
with bronze guides. I have the new guides but has anyone done this ? is there a kit for
aligning the boring bit to the valve seat ??

thanks
Mark


#2

B

bertsmobile1

You hone the guides once installed to suit the valves.
You then recut the seats to match the guides, not the guides to match the seats.
All of the valve seat grinding kits work this way.
Kits are expensive and you will be much better served by taking it to a dealer and getting them to do the seats.

I use a Neway kit, which is fairly standard and the Neway Briggs kit is around $ 400


#3

ILENGINE

ILENGINE

The valve guides are replaced using part number 19232 valve guide repair kit, which is no longer available from briggs but can be purchased from other sources like ebay.


#4

Boobala

Boobala

I hope this helps .........

see Page 5, .. of SECTION 5, in following manual. Guide kit should be P/N 19232


https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6NaqjIxWV1ybHphbUNTQUNNR2s/edit

V GUIDES.PNG


#5

M

markt

markt said:
I have a 19.5hp 42E707-2631E1 That I need to bore the valve guides and replace them
with bronze guides. I have the new guides but has anyone done this ? is there a kit for
aligning the boring bit to the valve seat ??

thanks
Mark
Click to expand...

>>>>>>>>>>>
Great DOC thanks, next question is so do I use the service bushing noted on page 5,,
or the full Brass or Sintered Valve Guides listed on page 6.

I purchased 4 guides 2,, 261961 and 2, 231218,, but maybe I can not use these
and must use the service guide 231218...

Any one know the correct answer ??? from memory my block value guides are just
bored into the aluminum block, I dont think there is anything to push out.
I was thinking I would have to bore the guide slots and then press in the brass guide...

thanks
Mark


#6

ILENGINE

ILENGINE

You will need to look at the guide if present to determine what replacement to use. The ones that have no installed guide would be the instructions for the aluminum guides, the others are factory installed, and if I remember correctly you thread them and then use the tool to screw into them and pull them out and then drive the new one in. The guide part numbers were never part of the parts diagram, they have always been listed in the service mahual, so you have to make the determination on what is previously installed and what part of the repair kit that you need to use to effect the repair.


#7

M

markt

I have no factory guides installed in the aluminum block. so 261961 ex and 231218 for intake will not work ?


#8

ILENGINE

ILENGINE

Since there is no guide installed then you have the aluminum guides. You will have to use the boring tools to ream out the hole according to the instruction and then install 231218 as listed in the instructions under aluminum valve guides.


#9

Boobala

Boobala

This info is located on Pg.7 in SECTION 5 of the Manual, Since I personally have NO experience on this type engine, between ILENGINE and Pgs. --5,6,& 7 and the Installation kit Instructions, this should cover the issue.

A guides.PNG


#10

M

motoman

Are you aware of the problem with guides in these air cooled engines? Movement of guide in softened aluminum head (IMO) due to excess heat. In a later ? Briggs Intek 24 you could not buy guides ,only the complete head. My take after trying to reinstall guides with proper .002" press fit, but which moved again? Briggs knows you cannot succeed. I hope your head is an exception. Someone stated there is a loctite formula , but I could not find anything that would live beyond 340F a couple years back. Good luck, just my slant.


#11

Boobala

Boobala

motoman said:
Are you aware of the problem with guides in these air cooled engines? Movement of guide in softened aluminum head (IMO) due to excess heat. In a later ? Briggs Intek 24 you could not buy guides ,only the complete head. My take after trying to reinstall guides with proper .002" press fit, but which moved again? Briggs knows you cannot succeed. I hope your head is an exception. Someone stated there is a loctite formula , but I could not find anything that would live beyond 340F a couple years back. Good luck, just my slant.
Click to expand...

In SOME situations, when trying to get an item "locked into a "bore" (this procedure will work) in this instance you could have the guide "knurled" which will raise the surface material, then you could heat the WHOLE block ( in an oven) and freeze the guide then QUICKLY press the guide into the block .. sort of "shrinking" part A and "enlarging" part B .


#12

T

Tinkerer200

motoman said:
Are you aware of the problem with guides in these air cooled engines? Movement of guide in softened aluminum head (IMO) due to excess heat. In a later ? Briggs Intek 24 you could not buy guides ,only the complete head. My take after trying to reinstall guides with proper .002" press fit, but which moved again? Briggs knows you cannot succeed. I hope your head is an exception. Someone stated there is a loctite formula , but I could not find anything that would live beyond 340F a couple years back. Good luck, just my slant.
Click to expand...

Did I miss something here, I thought we were talking about a flat head 42 series horizontally opposed twin. With the 42 series the guides will stay just fine when the proper tools are used to bore and install the guide. An old long time shop will probably have the proper tools.

As for the 24 hp Intek, I have a fix which has been used by dozens over the last 10 years or so with no reports of failure. No need to buy new head.

Walt Conner
wconner5 at frontier dot com


#13

B

bertsmobile1

motoman said:
Are you aware of the problem with guides in these air cooled engines? Movement of guide in softened aluminum head (IMO) due to excess heat. In a later ? Briggs Intek 24 you could not buy guides ,only the complete head. My take after trying to reinstall guides with proper .002" press fit, but which moved again? Briggs knows you cannot succeed. I hope your head is an exception. Someone stated there is a loctite formula , but I could not find anything that would live beyond 340F a couple years back. Good luck, just my slant.
Click to expand...

Aluminium -Silicon alloys ( sand castings ) and Aluminium - Silicon - Copper alloys ( pressure die castings ) are all heat treatable.
Any structure than you can create through heat treatment can also be reverted through heat.

So the prolonged over heating of an alloy head can leave it soft.
Done really bad, the entire head can go soft but usually any softening is localised.
Guides can cause softening of the metal around them which will make it difficult to stop them shifting but can be overcome.
If the damage has go progressed far enough to allow the seats to fall out then the head is toast.
Now it can be fixed but that requires heat treatment of the head and that costs more than replacement of the head.


#14

T

Tinkerer200

bertsmobile1 said:
Aluminium -Silicon alloys ( sand castings ) and Aluminium - Silicon - Copper alloys ( pressure die castings ) are all heat treatable.
Any structure than you can create through heat treatment can also be reverted through heat.

So the prolonged over heating of an alloy head can leave it soft.
Done really bad, the entire head can go soft but usually any softening is localised.
Guides can cause softening of the metal around them which will make it difficult to stop them shifting but can be overcome.
If the damage has go progressed far enough to allow the seats to fall out then the head is toast.
Now it can be fixed but that requires heat treatment of the head and that costs more than replacement of the head.
Click to expand...

I would say this is extremely rare, in fact, I have never heard of it, maybe it has to do with "down under" ? :>) As I said before, of the dozens AND dozens of people using my fix, I have never heard of a failure. IF someone out there has used my OHV slipped valve guide fix and it failed, Please let us know.

Walt Conner


#15

M

motoman

Boobala, The knurling I heard of back in the day was to restore the ID of guide, not the OD for reinsertion. Is that what you mean? BTW the consensus then was that knurling the ID was really not so effective . That process displaced part of the worn ID and forced it to raise, followed by the final reamer pass. If I remember it was often used on guides cut in the base block. I think it was considered a short term fix? I did have a little English 1600 with guides that were metal o-ringed. Can't remember which side, though.

Top level auto repair shops routinely run "scratch tests" or other tests for softness of overheated, liquid cooled, aluminum heads before attempting to repair them. So the notoriously hot-running air cooled engines seem even more prone , whatever the cylinder arrangement.
The big Harley parade bikers go to great lengths to keep the rear cylinder below 300F when moving at lawn tractor speeds.


#16

Boobala

Boobala

motoman said:
Boobala, The knurling I heard of back in the day was to restore the ID of guide, not the OD for reinsertion. Is that what you mean? BTW the consensus then was that knurling the ID was really not so effective . That process displaced part of the worn ID and forced it to raise, followed by the final reamer pass. If I remember it was often used on guides cut in the base block. I think it was considered a short term fix? I did have a little English 1600 with guides that were metal o-ringed. Can't remember which side, though.

Top level auto repair shops routinely run "scratch tests" or other tests for softness of overheated, liquid cooled, aluminum heads before attempting to repair them. So the notoriously hot-running air cooled engines seem even more prone , whatever the cylinder arrangement.
The big Harley parade bikers go to great lengths to keep the rear cylinder below 300F when moving at lawn tractor speeds.
Click to expand...

AS you stated the "knurling" process actually raised the surface area of the item when knurled on the OUTside, hence the necessity to HEAT one part, and FREEZE the knurled part, I don't hear of it anymore, probably because of today's materials and high tech machining ( OLD school )


#17

M

motoman

Boobala, Understand, Thanks


#18

Boobala

Boobala

motoman said:
Boobala, Understand, Thanks
Click to expand...

Now you have me wondering what process Briggs use's to install their IRON sleeves in their ALUMINUM blocks..?? ..:rolleyes:


#19

ILENGINE

ILENGINE

From my understanding Boo, the sleeve is installed into the mold and the aluminum is poured around it. Tried to break the block loose from a sleeve a few years ago, and the aluminum is basically welded to the sleeve.


#20

B

bertsmobile1

ILENGINE said:
From my understanding Boo, the sleeve is installed into the mold and the aluminum is poured around it. Tried to break the block loose from a sleeve a few years ago, and the aluminum is basically welded to the sleeve.
Click to expand...

Yep,
That is how we did it in our foundry.
All sorts of metal & non metals can be cast in this way.


#21

Boobala

Boobala

Just go's to show, you can always learn something new everyday ! THANK'S ILENGINE & Bert !


#22

B

bertsmobile1

The chrome on alloy bores used to be done this way as well.
The core was chromed and that transferred to the barrel when it was cast.
Then Yamaha managed to make plasma spraying of chrome commercially viable.


#23

Northshoredoug

Northshoredoug

Tinkerer200 said:
I would say this is extremely rare, in fact, I have never heard of it, maybe it has to do with "down under" ? :>) As I said before, of the dozens AND dozens of people using my fix, I have never heard of a failure. IF someone out there has used my OHV slipped valve guide fix and it failed, Please let us know.

Walt Conner
Click to expand...
Hi Walt, I'm interested trying your fix for the slipped guide, Sent you an email message last week but haven't heard back from you yet- db@twcny.rr.com


#24

W

Walt 2002

motoman said:
Are you aware of the problem with guides in these air cooled engines? Movement of guide in softened aluminum head (IMO) due to excess heat. In a later ? Briggs Intek 24 you could not buy guides ,only the complete head. My take after trying to reinstall guides with proper .002" press fit, but which moved again? Briggs knows you cannot succeed. I hope your head is an exception. Someone stated there is a loctite formula , but I could not find anything that would live beyond 340F a couple years back. Good luck, just my slant.
Click to expand...
You are talking about the wrong series of engine, your note does not apply to this engine.
Also, I can positively assure you that there is a permanent fix for the engine series valve guides you reference, I developed one and there are others.
Walt Conner


#25

H

hlw49

For the engine he listed it is an old opposed twin and the guides are in the block. So would not have a problem with the guides coming out. My parts lookup listed the guides 231218 for the intake and 261961 Exhaust.


#26

W

Walt 2002

BurntFingers said:
Hi Walt, I'm interested trying your fix for the slipped guide, Sent you an email message last week but haven't heard back from you yet- db@twcny.rr.com
Click to expand...
I am very sorry about that, I am always eager to share my fix, I do not find your message, IF you do not receive the fix, try me again at - wconner5 at frontier dot com put in proper format.
Walt Conner


#27

Northshoredoug

Northshoredoug

Walt 2002 said:
I am very sorry about that, I am always eager to share my fix, I do not find your message, IF you do not receive the fix, try me again at - wconner5 at frontier dot com put in proper format.
Walt Conner
Click to expand...
Please send, my address is db@twcny.rr.com
Thanks!


#28

Northshoredoug

Northshoredoug

Walt 2002 said:
I am always eager to share my fix...
Walt Conner
Click to expand...
Got it! Good info Walt,
You may be old...but you're far from obsolete!
Thanks for sharing your expertise.


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