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Hello all, this is my first post on this site. I recently learned that Scag will be offering a 37hp EFI Briggs on the Turf Tiger II for 2018. I have been getting my ducks in a row to buy a new Scag after the engine went on my 14 some odd year old mower. My local dealers are saying that they are expecting to see some of these around the New Year or so.

A little background; I don't have a huge amount of grass, just four acres of mostly horse pasture after downsizing from around 20. I want this model in a 61" deck for the six inch cut.
That and I expect that this will be the last mower I ever purchase.

That said, does anyone know anything about this new engine? Fuel consumption should be less over the 35hp carb version I would think? I expect the price to go up a bit? Has anyone seen one on the dealer's floor? Not that I have to mow this time of year though the area between my fencing and the wood line could use a trim:laughing:.

EFI is not the same as in a car. I would not ever buy EFI. Your dealer will not even know how to work on it. Just my .02 worth.

I guess I should explain a little more. I know a lot of the mowing companies here in town. 3 of them bought mowers with EFI engines. To date, only one still has the mower with the EFI. All 3 have had very bad experiences with them. Mostly finding someone who would work on them and fix them. One guy that is younger(races cars with EFI and hates carbs) thought it would be great to have EFI till his mower would not start and 6 months later he traded it off to the dealer working on it for a carb model. He lost lots of money on the rental mower and trade-in value of a broken mower is almost nothing. Cost him right at $6,000 to learn his lesson.

BlazNT said:

I guess I should explain a little more. I know a lot of the mowing companies here in town. 3 of them bought mowers with EFI engines. To date, only one still has the mower with the EFI. All 3 have had very bad experiences with them. Mostly finding someone who would work on them and fix them. One guy that is younger(races cars with EFI and hates carbs) thought it would be great to have EFI till his mower would not start and 6 months later he traded it off to the dealer working on it for a carb model. He lost lots of money on the rental mower and trade-in value of a broken mower is almost nothing. Cost him right at $6,000 to learn his lesson.

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I'm in agreement with Chuck, (BlazNt) , I remember back in the "ol-days" when TV's first got away from "tubes" and went to transistorized/electronic models ( I remember the commercials, the Quasar-"works in a drawer" ) it had a pull-out panel on the front of the TV for the "service man" to change-out the electronics panel, did NOT go over very well as I recall. It took years for the industry to get their act together, AND I remember when a guy could open the hood on his car and actually work on it himself ( if mechanically inclined) I'm NOT against improvements, on the contrary, electronic ignition is GREAT, improvements in the carburetors was a welcome, better tires and transmissions are fine ( but 6-8 speeds in a "matic" ?? and 4 speeds with O/D is OK but lets get reasonable ) and what irks me most about cars today, is ALL the on-board electronics, to me it's hard enough to avoid an accident in the city and on X-ways with all these folks and their in-car displays and distracting gadgets, NOT to mention, the texters !! ENOUGH on that, THAT in itself is a can of worms I care not to open, Back to the mowers, First, does anybody with LESS than a few acres REALLY worry about fuel-consumption ?? I doubt it, and as Chuck mentioned, I doubt the EFI technology has really gotten into the servicing dealers YET ! I mean no intent to alter your intentions, only offering MY opinion about a new technology in the lawn-mower field, my thoughts are, I personally like to fix things ( within my capacity & knowledge ) I enjoy METAL frames, hoods, engine-shrouds etc, (try finding a plastic hood for some of these new J-D tractors, and the cost $$$$ if ya do ) all the plastic items on today's mowers either warp's, cracks, or self-destructs in short time,I think it's all about the bottom line, the quality is not what it was year's back, YEP I'm ol fashioned, but I sure have fun instead of headaches, and huge service bills. Guess I've babbled long enough, I would just offer, do some heavy-duty research BEFORE dumping a wad of bucks into a new machine, use the ol aircraft designers mentality, .. WHAT-IF "this" happens ???

Thanks for the incite. Makes sense. I want one of the larger engines for the following reasons. The home we downsized to is not quite located where we wanted to be so if after a couple of years we decide to move again, we may go back to a larger property. That and depending on how fast our pasture recovers, thick grass can be tough to mow with not enough power. My previous mower with only 23hp and a 61" deck was way under powered.

This time of year I should be able to find a good price on one of the 35hp B&S models collecting dust on a showroom floor too.

qrtrhrs said:

Thanks for the incite. Makes sense. I want one of the larger engines for the following reasons. The home we downsized to is not quite located where we wanted to be so if after a couple of years we decide to move again, we may go back to a larger property. That and depending on how fast our pasture recovers, thick grass can be tough to mow with not enough power. My previous mower with only 23hp and a 61" deck was way under powered.

This time of year I should be able to find a good price on one of the 35hp B&S models collecting dust on a showroom floor too.

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In YOUR case, a Z probably would be your best bet, although I used to cut 3 1/2 acres residential property we had, with a USED $400.00 MTD Yard-Man 21HP Briggs Twin, with a 46in. deck, and NEVER had a problem, other than routine maint. ,.. you could also sell it WITH the property, and buy NEW again, I just bought a used Briggs 24HP, 2014 model (engine only) ( 44R877-0001-G1 ) yep I found the Owners guide, Parts manual, and it uses the OLD Twin O/H manual, there's another fella (here on the site) has the same exact eng. we both have issues with the governor/throttle linkage, this particular model (some, mine being one, has a thermostat to control the choke operation) ( I THINK ) because I've searched for day's now (on & off) and I CANNOT find a single word about this "Ready-Start" stat equipped engines thermostat linkage set-up/adjustment, there's 5 different "control mounting brackets' for this SERIES (44R) engine, BUT no specfic info on which brackets and linkages go with what engine set-up I'm going to eliminate their "better-idea" B/S, and just put out the time and money to modify it to a good OL-FASHIONED manual choke lever set-up, RESEARCH, time consuming, HELL yes, BUT knowledge, determination, and some mechanical abilities are great tools ! Whatever you choose to do, may you have the Best of Luck and happiness !

Probably not a good idea to buy the first-year of a new design engine from anybody, but especially Briggs and Kohler.

Let someone else be their guinea pig.

I do not believe that EFI has any advantage-to-the-user over carburetors on lawnmower engines.

cpurvis said:

Probably not a good idea to buy the first-year of a new design engine from anybody, but especially Briggs and Kohler.

Let someone else be their guinea pig.

I do not believe that EFI has any advantage-to-the-user over carburetors on lawnmower engines.

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I'm a long time Briggs guy, and I have nothing against the other brands, It seems to ME, they've ALL, abandoned Quality, for B/S innovations trying to sell more product, there's REALLY old Briggs, and Tecumsehs, Honda's, etc. etc. still running strong to this day, I'm thinking these R&D guy's are trying to hang onto their jobs, everything is gettin farmed out overseas, and other countries because of labor costs. Nowadays , Made in USA usually means little, anything could be parts made here and assembled elsewhere or vice-versa, and if they built equipment that REALLY lasted, it would be tougher to sell new equipment, coupled to the fact ( in MY opinion) there aren't too many younger generation folks, interested in becoming mechanics..(EHhh, EXCUSE me ! ) Electro-Mechanical Equipment Service Technicians ! I fear soon, that parts for the older equipment will surely be (No Longer Available) as I find more and more each time I do a parts search, have you looked at some of the user-guides with this new stuff, drawings with arrows and or numbers, NO text explanations, or detailed information, EXCEPT where to buy ORIGINAL factory parts (IF available) but the warranty info is 40 pages long in texted print in about 26 languages ( that's called CYA , obviously written by a team of corporate @&^$#@$#@%$ lawyers ) I'm sure glad I'm in my "Golden years" and luckily for me I can still find the parts to keep my decrepid, antique, ol-fashion machines still runnin strong albeit the HUGE increases in prices to pay, (they know they have us by the "short-hairs", and wisely use it to THEIR advantage) and that's life !!

The FreedomZ and LibertyZ from what the specs tell me do not have the six inch cut or the 62 inch deck both of which are a priority. I sat on the Cheetah to try to feel out what the ride would be like but there again the deck height is not there. Having had the 62 inch deck on my last mower, I would not want less.

I agree that all things mechanical are not easy for the average person to work on but I would also state that vehicles for one generally last longer with limited issues than they used to. Once they do die then all bets are off.

Anyway, I may also be using this mower to help others in need that can no longer do for themselves.

EFi petrol is not a good idea for an occasional use engine that gets laid up for extended periods of time.
Way too many things to get stuck from gummed up fuel.
Go deisel if you want more grunt, just remember to run the engine for 15 to 30 minutes once a month when you are not using it to keep water out of the fuel.

If you are looking for a 6" cut height then it will have to be a commercial mower or perhaps something like an out front flail mower.
Flails are really good because most can be set up to mulch and will also clear out scrub.
people get hooked on rotary mowers and rotaries anr not and never will be a good way to cut grass. particularly long pasture grass that is thatching.
I gather you are on acres so have you considered a compact / sub compact tractor with an out front mower ?
Not cheap but built to last 30 + years and of course can come with trenchers, post hole diggers , real ploughs etc etc etc.

My first thoughts are mowing horse pasture acreage would be a rough and dusty ride on my 61V Cheetah. I have successfully mowed horse and cow pies acreage with a tractor and brush mower. I have not have much luck using a finishing mower on pasture land due to belt slip and thatch weeds.

Maybe that is why the Cheetah mowing height limit is set about 6 inches. I may be wrong, just my first thoughts.

bertsmobile1 said:

EFi petrol is not a good idea for an occasional use engine that gets laid up for extended periods of time.
Way too many things to get stuck from gummed up fuel.
Go deisel if you want more grunt, just remember to run the engine for 15 to 30 minutes once a month when you are not using it to keep water out of the fuel.

If you are looking for a 6" cut height then it will have to be a commercial mower or perhaps something like an out front flail mower.
Flails are really good because most can be set up to mulch and will also clear out scrub.
people get hooked on rotary mowers and rotaries anr not and never will be a good way to cut grass. particularly long pasture grass that is thatching.
I gather you are on acres so have you considered a compact / sub compact tractor with an out front mower ?
Not cheap but built to last 30 + years and of course can come with trenchers, post hole diggers , real ploughs etc etc etc.

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At a previous property, I mowed with a 15 foot batwing but the tractor I used for that and other chores was pretty damaging for frequent mowing due to the weight. When I went down to 20 acres, I went with a 10' bush hog which I absolutely did not like due to to digging in on rolling ground. I was using a 75 horse tractor for mowing and other chores which was also damaging. I bought a pull behind to use with my ZTR giving me about 9 foot or so overall width. Slower than a tractor but good on the fields except the cut was a bit short even with modifications to the decks.

If you read my first post, I am only cutting about four acres so yes, a commercial mower is expensive and I am not flush with cash. But, with proper care I expect to never buy another mower after this.

I am fortunate to have friends and neighbors with pretty much any piece of equipment I would need. They will even bush hog my fields but due to their own needs, they may not get to me when I need them to. Actually, I prefer to do my own mowing anyway, that way, I can observe the field and/or fence lines first hand.

mcdonell said:

My first thoughts are mowing horse pasture acreage would be a rough and dusty ride on my 61V Cheetah. I have successfully mowed horse and cow pies acreage with a tractor and brush mower. I have not have much luck using a finishing mower on pasture land due to belt slip and thatch weeds.

Maybe that is why the Cheetah mowing height limit is set about 6 inches. I may be wrong, just my first thoughts.

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We happen to be "blessed" with "Johnson Grass" (thanks to Mr Johnson way back when). At different stages it can be poisonous. It spreads through it's roots and seeds and is tough to control. In the case of horse pasture, frequent mowing is one of the better methods of control. Therefore, I mow mine almost weekly which of course helps control other weeds as well.

During normal or average weather conditions, it can be pretty wet. The lighter weight of a mower does less damage than a tractor. There have been times when rain has allowed the grass to get ahead of me. I just go slower and increase my overlap.

Yes, it can be a rough ride but I just take my time.

Per Scag's 2017 broshure, the Cheetah is limited to five inches else I would consider one with the 31hp Kawasaki engine. Maybe I need to go on the website and look at the specs?

qrtrhrs said:

We happen to be "blessed" with "Johnson Grass" (thanks to Mr Johnson way back when). At different stages it can be poisonous. It spreads through it's roots and seeds and is tough to control. In the case of horse pasture, frequent mowing is one of the better methods of control. Therefore, I mow mine almost weekly which of course helps control other weeds as well.

During normal or average weather conditions, it can be pretty wet. The lighter weight of a mower does less damage than a tractor. There have been times when rain has allowed the grass to get ahead of me. I just go slower and increase my overlap.

Yes, it can be a rough ride but I just take my time.

Per Scag's 2017 broshure, the Cheetah is limited to five inches else I would consider one with the 31hp Kawasaki engine. Maybe I need to go on the website and look at the specs?

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Johnson grass gets killed on any lawn I mow or I do not mow it.

A compact or sub compact tractor is not much heavier than a commercial ZTR.
The new ones are of course lighter.
I have a Bolens Durotrac in my repair run and I am yet to see a better unit
56" deck with hydraulic lift, Kohler V twin engine, Eaton hydraulics.
You should be able to pick up one of these for around $ 1000 in the USA.As for your Johnson Grass, which sounds bad enough for the Aust government to plat it everywhere.
Start in one corner and poison it.
The landlord has 1000 acres full of tussock grass ( another really smart import ) and they are about 1/3 the way through removing it.
It came down the hill so they started on the uphill fence, mowed a few strips 2" then sprayed the fresh growing tussock clumps as they emerged.
Takes a long time but they are making progress and because of irregular rain fall it has to be little bits at a time.
right now we are shifting the cattle every couple of days due to lack of feed

I'm going to go against the grain and say that I prefer EFI, but I also prefer Kohler engines. I currently have a SCAG TT, with a 31 HP Kohler with EFI, an old Grasshopper 225 with a 25 HP Kohler carbureted, and a SCAG V-Ride with a 25 HP Kohler carbureted. All of them have really performed well, especially the old Grasshopper, but I've certainly had no problems from the EFI SCAG. One advantage of EFI is that it starts easier and stays started when cold. Both of the carb mowers take a little finessing from the choke to get them going.

Good luck to you whichever way you go. And unless you are a lot younger than me, if you get a SCAG, it probably will be the last mower that you need to buy.

Well, enough talk, lol! I put a deposit on a 2018 TTII with the 35hp B&S today. 11,200 plus tax if I am allowed to mention? The dealer had one on the floor but it was sold. They could not give me a delivery date what with Christmas and all so maybe by the middle of January?

Congratulations.

BlazNT said:

Congratulations.

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Thank you.

Congratulations.

BlazNT said:

Congratulations.

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Hey Chuck, you're record is "stuck" .. (LOL)

Congratulations on the new mower. You researched the matter and sounds like a wise choice. Great mower with plenty of power that will get the job done week after week for many years.

P.S. I would not be afraid of today's EFI and it would be nice not to have to play with the choke when cold.

Picked up the new TT II with the 35hp carb B&S mower yesterday. Between the cold and some other issues to attend to, I unloaded it from the trailer and pulled it into my shed. I got back to it about six hours later intending only to make some room so I could pull it further into the shed but when I went to start it the battery was too low. I brought it inside and let it sit to warm to room temperature and then put it on the charger. I have it at about 100% now but it is supposed to rain hard tomorrow maybe start out as sleet or freezing rain. No big deal, I want to go through the manual before I do much with it. Not that there is too much to do, lol! I have some weedy areas and some leaves to play around with to get started.

It was delivered to you with a low battery? Or did something run it down in the 6 hours it sat?

cpurvis said:

It was delivered to you with a low battery? Or did something run it down in the 6 hours it sat?

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The mower came into the dealer's shop on Friday morning and I could have gotten it that day but chose to do so the next day, Saturday. The mower started just fine inside and again after a 30-45 minute ride to my house. It was maybe in the low teens that day so after six hours, the battery apparently had run down when I got back to it.

I do intend to speak to the dealer since it could be an issue in the future that needs to be documented. The way I see it, the machine was likely in an unheated warehouse then shipped in an unheated van or even on a flatbed. During warmer weather, I likely would have gone right to mowing and further charging the battery. Anyway, I don't see it as an issue to get upset over. It's been my experience that these small mower size batteries do not last all that long to start with.

For now, the battery is inside and charged. With weather and other commitments, I don't know when I will get to play but I will post on any issues that I deem worthy. I forgot to put up a pic of my new machine so here it is.

Finally got two hours of seat time on the new Scag today. Two days ago we finally got our horses moved to the place we bought last May. (It took way longer than I had expected to get things ready, lol.) The pasture was way to lush to put them on so I decided to cut it.

First impressions: This thing is a beast! I do not expect that I will ever not have the power I need to cut through thick grass should I for some reason fall behind on my mowing. Overall, very good ride on somewhat rough ground and fast! I had read and re-read the manual but let's face it, getting on a new machine is still a learning curve. No problem though. Overall handling and control layout were easy to get used to.

As I have always heard though, the standard zero turn layout is not as "stable" on hills as a front mount deck. My previous mower, a Woods branded front mount supposedly made by Grasshopper for all it's other issues was more shall we say comfortable on a slope. I learned to take it easy on an area that is easy to slide on. My neighbor had mowed it for me when I was without mower and ended up sliding through my fence.

Anyway, I looked over everything and see no issues with uneven belt ware, etc. So, I am a happy owner, lol!

Oh', I have to admit that I put my first scratch on it. I forgot about the height of the rollbar and neglected to take down an electric wire strung over a gate opening figuring that I could duck under it. (A wire strung in front of a gate will keep horses from pushing on the gate.) Whoops, two new gate handles in the trash and a scratch on the roll bar posts!

Glad your happy with you new mower. Best wishes.

I hit a few things with the ROP bar and popped a few wheelies when I run into objects on the ground. I also created a few divets on the property. I am better 3 years later.

You can buy cheaper mowers and you can buy more expensive mowers, but when it comes to cutting grass, you won't find anytihng that will out cut a Scag with the Velocity Deck.

My preference is the Tiger Cat with a 52" deck. In my opinion and the opinion of some of my employees who run them every day they will out cut the 61" Turf Tigers when it is all said and done.

Either way though Scag is a grass cutting machine.

jekjr said:

You can buy cheaper mowers and you can buy more expensive mowers, but when it comes to cutting grass, you won't find anytihng that will out cut a Scag with the Velocity Deck.

My preference is the Tiger Cat with a 52" deck. In my opinion and the opinion of some of my employees who run them every day they will out cut the 61" Turf Tigers when it is all said and done.

Either way though Scag is a grass cutting machine.

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I would generally agree that a more narrow deck will give a nicer finish if that is the goal. I am cutting my yard and my pasture so I wanted the maximum six inch high deck for the pasture. My pasture is rough so I take my time therefore the wider deck is a plus but thanks for the input.