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Troy built TB110 with Briggs engine surging and running rough

#1

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CrusinSusan

Hi guys, so have a Troy built tb110 with Briggs engine. Has one of those plastic carbs, would start then immediately die. Checked out YouTube and found a video from Steve’s saloon where he used some micro bits and made the hole tiny bit bigger in the white piece. Put everything back together and it started up first pull! Only problem is it idles right before it would normally die. It stays on, just very very low idle right above dying, I took the air filter off and the butterfly is surging open and closed quite rapidly. I also see a fine mist of gas but nothing crazy. If I stick my finger in the hole and hold the butterfly open it doesn’t run perfect idle (prolly cause my fat finger in there lol) but it sounds very much better. Did I make the hole to big? Getting to much fuel vs air? It starts every time now first pull just sounds very very sick lol. Any help is appreciated as always, thank you guys!


#2

sgkent

sgkent

sounds like time for a new carb now. Without more details like an engine model number, serial number it is impossible to answer anything for someone. There are many different "plastic" style carbs, and other issues that befall them.


#3

C

CrusinSusan

The carb model is 799584 and is on a Briggs and Stratton engine 09P702-0144-F1. I guess what I’m asking is if I made the hole to big is the problems I described the result of that? Or did I solve one problem beings now it starts and stay running and now I’m just at a second problem?


#4

sgkent

sgkent

holes in carbs typically meter either air flow or fuel flow. Enlarging them, or even cleaning them with a metal object usually affects the air to fuel ratio. Affect that and the engine may not run well. I am not a fan of changing fuel metering in engines unless the jets are swappable sizes. If a special drill bit / jet reamer size is involved it may improve things if the size is known, but there is no going back if it makes things worse unless it is a swappable jet, e.g., one that unscrews. Some engine carbs have metering screws that can be turned to adjust air to fuel mixture at low speed, high speed, or both. Other carbs are fixed so tampering with them changes the mixture the factory set for optimal running. Some engines run a bit lean due to EPA emission standards. If the air cleaner is dirty, or any seals leak that can also affect things. I have a pressure washer I had to flat sand the fuel tank to get a perfect seal on the carb to tank for it to run right.


#5

StarTech

StarTech

Another YouTube victim....You don't mess with the jets unless you know what you are doing.

Replace the jet assy based on your datecode.

592792 JET, Main -(Standard)
-Used Before Code Date 18070100

84002108 JET, Main -(Standard)
-Used After Code Date 18063000


#6

C

CrusinSusan

StarTech said:
Another YouTube victim....You don't mess with the jets unless you know what you are doing.

Replace the jet assy based on your datecode.

592792 JET, Main -(Standard)
-Used Before Code Date 18070100

84002108 JET, Main -(Standard)
-Used After Code Date 18063000
Click to expand...
I looked everywhere for a code date on the mower and on the frame everywhere and couldn’t find one. Any other way to tell? No numbers anywhere that are even close. I’m ok with learning , YouTube is a great resource. You win some and you lose some but that’s how I learn. Still looking for the answer of what I’m explaining is or isn’t the reason for the butterfly to be spasing out.


#7

C

CrusinSusan

sgkent said:
holes in carbs typically meter either air flow or fuel flow. Enlarging them, or even cleaning them with a metal object usually affects the air to fuel ratio. Affect that and the engine may not run well. I am not a fan of changing fuel metering in engines unless the jets are swappable sizes. If a special drill bit / jet reamer size is involved it may improve things if the size is known, but there is no going back if it makes things worse unless it is a swappable jet, e.g., one that unscrews. Some engine carbs have metering screws that can be turned to adjust air to fuel mixture at low speed, high speed, or both. Other carbs are fixed so tampering with them changes the mixture the factory set for optimal running. Some engines run a bit lean due to EPA emission standards. If the air cleaner is dirty, or any seals leak that can also affect things. I have a pressure washer I had to flat sand the fuel tank to get a perfect seal on the carb to tank for it to run right.
Click to expand...
I didn’t see any adjustment options. Looks like I can just get the jet part online instead of the carb. Air filter is brand new, clean fresh gas. Ty I’ll start over with the jet piece.


#8

StarTech

StarTech

See if the you tube video at Briggs helps.

https://www.briggsandstratton.com/eu/en_gb/support/faqs/browse/engine-codes-model-numbers.html


#9

C

CrusinSusan

StarTech said:
See if the you tube video at Briggs helps.

https://www.briggsandstratton.com/eu/en_gb/support/faqs/browse/engine-codes-model-numbers.html
Click to expand...
Ty I did visit there but I’ll double check again. This thing is pretty worn. Found it on the curb looks like it was stored outside haha. Thank you for the link I appreciate it.


#10

sgkent

sgkent

Found it on the curb
Click to expand...

that explains a lot. Someone else got tired of screwing with it.


#11

C

CrusinSusan

Replaced the carb, started up strong thought everything was good2go then it started sounding like it was gonna die then rev up again for almost a minute or two. Kept it running while I looked at things and after about two minutes it shot some fire out of the exhaust which my kid thought was cool lol. What else can I try? Got a new carb, new spark plug and checked the gap, fresh oil, fresh gas and brand new air filter. Checked the flywheel brake and key everything seems to be good. There is two video links, the one with the cover shroud on was the first, the butterfly was staying pretty consistent and not going crazy. It was still running as it should and backfired every few min. After that video and I took the cover off again I realized I didn’t put the black tube that connects to the air filter housing back all the way on. I thought that was the issue, pushed it all the way on (it was kinda just resting on the connection definitely not airtight) so the second video with the cover off was after connecting it all the way. That’s the only change besides the cover being off. The butterfly was surging again like crazy.


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#12

B

bertsmobile1

CrusinSusan said:
I looked everywhere for a code date on the mower and on the frame everywhere and couldn’t find one. Any other way to tell? No numbers anywhere that are even close. I’m ok with learning , YouTube is a great resource. You win some and you lose some but that’s how I learn. Still looking for the answer of what I’m explaining is or isn’t the reason for the butterfly to be spasing out.
Click to expand...
Date CODE is the CODE number which is after the Model & Type numbers
so after the 09P702-0144-F1 number you posted will be another 8 character number which is YYMMDD(factory id )


#13

C

CrusinSusan

bertsmobile1 said:
Date CODE is the CODE number which is after the Model & Type numbers
so after the 09P702-0144-F1 number you posted will be another 8 character number which is YYMMDD(factory id )
Click to expand...
Ty Bert! I’ll look again tomorrow.


#14

S

slomo

Choke plate is sticking near closed. Fix the choke operation.


#15

C

CrusinSusan

bertsmobile1 said:
Date CODE is the CODE number which is after the Model & Type numbers
so after the 09P702-0144-F1 number you posted will be another 8 character number which is YYMMDD(factory id )
Click to expand...
CrusinSusan said:
Ty Bert, found the date. 2014
Click to expand...


#16

C

CrusinSusan

bertsmobile1 said:
Date CODE is the CODE number which is after the Model & Type numbers
so after the 09P702-0144-F1 number you posted will be another 8 character number which is YYMMDD(factory id )
Click to expand...
Bert I’m trying to find the valve clearances on this engine. I don’t see it online. I see a 9A, 9B, 9D but no 9P. Do you have any suggestions? I was guessing an average after looking at a few of .004 but I’d still like to know for future reference how to locate it if I’m looking at the wrong set of model series numbers. Thank you!

Attachments





#17

C

CrusinSusan

Is there supposed to be oil in the valve area? It’s not a lot but would just like to know if this is normal? Is it normal for an engine in 100% shape or normal for a old engine? Thanks guys!

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#18

S

slomo

CrusinSusan said:
Is there supposed to be oil in the valve area? It’s not a lot but would just like to know if this is normal? Is it normal for an engine in 100% shape or normal for a old engine? Thanks guys!
Click to expand...
Normal oil in the valve cover slash area.


#19

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slomo

Post pictures of your engine numbers please. All stamped numbers and letters.


#20

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CrusinSusan

Sure, here it is Ty!

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#21

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slomo

Not a Troy-Built guy but that stamping is unusual, for me anyway. As Bert said there should be more Briggs numbers after the 9P--F1 blah blah.....


#22

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CrusinSusan

I did clean the fins and the top of the block. Took the gas tank off as well just to double check behind it for anything stuck. I looked everywhere for more numbers didn’t find anymore. The only one is the one in pic 9P702-0144-F1 with a DOM of 03-22-14. Here’s the mowers decal if that helps. Ty very much.

Attachments





#23

S

slomo

Those are your mower numbers. You have mower and engine numbers. I would call Briggs and ask about valve specs. You have some numbers to go by. Or maybe one of the other guys will chime in soon.

You still have a sticking "near" closed choke plate. Your video shows it clear as mud. Many videos on youtube about this and how to fix it.


#24

B

bertsmobile1

slomo said:
Not a Troy-Built guy but that stamping is unusual, for me anyway. As Bert said there should be more Briggs numbers after the 9P--F1 blah blah.....
Click to expand...
Actually no Slowie , the photo tells the whole story
Engines made in the PRC have their numbers electro etched into the crank case, usually behind the carb or at the very back of the crankcase depending upon which of the 2 B & S factories in China made the engines .
The "serial number " would be 140322PRC if it had one 2014 year , March month , 22nd day , PRC factory code
And the reason why Crusin can not find any reference to their engine on USA web sites is because it has come from the B & S factory in China so there is no USA service info
However all B & S engines are designed to run virtually the same valve lash so .004" for each will be fine
There is nothing magic about the valve lash.
It just has to be small enough so as not to counter the decompressor and large enough so that when hot there is still some gap so the valves can close fully .
Remember they are very very very basic engine not a F1 race car in fact at full speed they run slower than a lot of race engines idle .
Thus valve timing is not all that critical most mower engines will run ( poorly ) with the cam one tooth out in either direction no car engine I know of will even start one tooth out .

As for engine parts used on Chinese engines Crusin will have to go through MTD not B &S
Down here we get the Chinese parts assembled in the USA engines, the Chinese assembled Imperial engines that usually go to the USA & the Chinese assembled EU metric engines of which the latter are head & shoulders better than all others .

Now which butterfly was flapping like a dunny door in the wind
The one closest to the air filter which is the choke or the one at the back which is the throttle .
I for one have had a lot of problems with chokes flapping randomly , cured by tossing the auto choke where it belongs, down the afore mentioned Dunny and fitting a choke cable
Recently I have been fitting a much stronger return spring to the carb and disconnecting the air vane where fitted .


#25

S

slomo

bertsmobile1 said:
Actually no Slowie , the photo tells the whole story
Engines made in the PRC have their numbers electro etched into the crank case, usually behind the carb or at the very back of the crankcase depending upon which of the 2 B & S factories in China made the engines .
The "serial number " would be 140322PRC if it had one 2014 year , March month , 22nd day , PRC factory code
And the reason why Crusin can not find any reference to their engine on USA web sites is because it has come from the B & S factory in China so there is no USA service info
However all B & S engines are designed to run virtually the same valve lash so .004" for each will be fine
There is nothing magic about the valve lash.
It just has to be small enough so as not to counter the decompressor and large enough so that when hot there is still some gap so the valves can close fully .
Remember they are very very very basic engine not a F1 race car in fact at full speed they run slower than a lot of race engines idle .
Thus valve timing is not all that critical most mower engines will run ( poorly ) with the cam one tooth out in either direction no car engine I know of will even start one tooth out .

As for engine parts used on Chinese engines Crusin will have to go through MTD not B &S
Down here we get the Chinese parts assembled in the USA engines, the Chinese assembled Imperial engines that usually go to the USA & the Chinese assembled EU metric engines of which the latter are head & shoulders better than all others .

Now which butterfly was flapping like a dunny door in the wind
The one closest to the air filter which is the choke or the one at the back which is the throttle .
I for one have had a lot of problems with chokes flapping randomly , cured by tossing the auto choke where it belongs, down the afore mentioned Dunny and fitting a choke cable
Recently I have been fitting a much stronger return spring to the carb and disconnecting the air vane where fitted .
Click to expand...
Post 11, her video at 0:28 into it shows the brass choke plate nearly closed while running. Told her to look at the choke. Nothing back on it......


#26

B

bertsmobile1

I think is is one she lifted off Face Ache and not her mower


#27

S

slomo

bertsmobile1 said:
I think is is one she lifted off Face Ache and not her mower
Click to expand...
??? Could be.


#28

C

CrusinSusan

Had to go back and reference so the video with it stuck I brought it back in and took the shroud and carb off again. Was looking at what could be stuck and that’s when I noticed I didn’t have the breather tube (I think that’s what it’s called) connected to the back of the air filter port. I connected that out everything back together and the second video on post 11 was after I connected it back. From that point the butterfly was going crazy again. Could connecting the air tube cause that? Or maybe I could of unstuck something after taking it off/reinstalling. Either way the butterfly closest to the air filter is the one I seen going crazy, I’ll look again to make sure it’s the only one. Ty both.
slomo said:
??? Could be.
Click to expand...


#29

B

bertsmobile1

That is the choke and it flutters because the spring designed to hold it fully open is not up to the job
AFAIK the spring is not available as a stand alone item
When you look directly down on the carb from the top there should be a spring on the right side that holds the choke fully open
If yours is still there , cut the end off, count 2 turns of wire up the spring & bend them over to reconnect the spring


#30

S

slomo

CrusinSusan said:
Had to go back and reference so the video with it stuck I brought it back in and took the shroud and carb off again. Was looking at what could be stuck and that’s when I noticed I didn’t have the breather tube (I think that’s what it’s called) connected to the back of the air filter port. I connected that out everything back together and the second video on post 11 was after I connected it back. From that point the butterfly was going crazy again. Could connecting the air tube cause that? Or maybe I could of unstuck something after taking it off/reinstalling. Either way the butterfly closest to the air filter is the one I seen going crazy, I’ll look again to make sure it’s the only one. Ty both.
Click to expand...
THAT is the choke plate as you say going crazy. Your choke plate is sticking nearly fully closed. You want it fully open after the engine starts up. Again tons of videos on youtube on this.


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