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trouble with briggs

#1

J

joe74

My briggs model 303447 16hp twin cyclender was spraying oil around air cleaner or carb. I was told it was the rings so honed. the bores and put in new pistons and rings after it set all winter. It now spit and stuters and loses power and can't turn deck on. I cleaned the fuel pump and carb but didn't make a differance. what the heck is wrong with it? Thanks joey!


#2

StarTech

StarTech

First question did yu use a flex or ridge hone? Did you mic the cylinder to see if it needed oversizing or if it was ovaled or tapered?


#3

B

Born2Mow

joe74 said:
I was told it was the rings so honed the bores and put in new pistons and rings after it set all winter.
Click to expand...
And who gave you this sage advice? A neighbor, your mother-in-law, a guy you never saw before ??

What if I said it's most likely the breather hose that powers the fuel pump. A $2 / 10 minute repair ??


#4

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

Born2Mow said:
And who gave you this sage advice? A neighbor, your mother-in-law, a guy you never saw before ??
Click to expand...
Probably some random guy on the internet on some random forum.


#5

S

slomo

From what I've seen, if you remove a head, turn the engine over with your hand, you will see a small dribble of oil at the bottom of the piston when you are reaching TDC. Course oil level is exactly on the full mark on flat ground. To me that represents dead piston rings. Course you could have out of round bores and so on too.

slomo


#6

J

joe74

slomo said:
From what I've seen, if you remove a head, turn the engine over with your hand, you will see a small dribble of oil at the bottom of the piston when you are reaching TDC. Course oil level is exactly on the full mark on flat ground. To me that represents dead piston rings. Course you could have out of round bores and so on too.

slomo
Click to expand...
The same guy who checked the cyclender and said they was good, probably an idiot. Now that we know can you help me? I took the air cleaner off and it spraying gas out of the top carborator while running ..


#7

Fish

Fish

Take off the valve covers and take a peek.


#8

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

Hammermechanicman said:
Probably some random guy on the internet on some random forum.
Click to expand...
do you know him? (wink wink)


#9

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

Scrubcadet10 said:
do you know him? (wink wink)
Click to expand...
Maybe.


#10

B

Born2Mow

Hammermechanicman said:
Probably some random guy on the internet on some random forum.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I've never met him. :ROFLMAO:


#11

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

I read it on the internet it must be true.


#12

B

Born2Mow

slomo said:
From what I've seen, if you remove a head, turn the engine over with your hand, you will see a small dribble of oil at the bottom of the piston when you are reaching TDC. Course oil level is exactly on the full mark on flat ground. To me that represents dead piston rings. Course you could have out of round bores and so on too.
Click to expand...
To a point, true.... but....
  • The level of the engine oil should never be up to the level of a horizontal cylinder bore or it would smoke continuously, even when new.
  • There are oil control rings and compression rings. Compression rings will easily pass oil, which is why the second type ring its there.
  • Oil control rings only control the oil spray present in the normal sump, but never liquid from an over-filled sump.
  • If there is standing oil in the combustion chamber, then the engine will be burning LOTS of oil. Not out the valve cover, but out of the exhaust pipe with tell-tale clouds of white smoke.
  • And consider that when COLD, if all 3 ring gaps aligned and the sump was over-filled...


#13

B

Born2Mow

Joey -
Questions...
  • What is the age in years and hours run on this mower ?
  • How old is the fuel ? Is old fuel mixed with new fuel, or did you completely empty the fuel system over the winter ?
  • Have you checked the condition of the flywheel key ?
  • Is the top of the engine and the surrounding area carb linkage/ springs/ choke/ governor all cleaned and free of any grass clipping and crud that might be affecting the operation of the carb linkage ?
Just need this base-line info to get started.


#14

S

slomo

Born2Mow said:
To a point, true.... but....
  • The level of the engine oil should never be up to the level of a horizontal cylinder bore or it would smoke continuously, even when new. True, I didn't mention an excessive oil level.
  • There are oil control rings and compression rings. Compression rings will easily pass oil, which is why the second type ring its there. Wouldn't say easily on a good engine. Maybe a smoker.
  • Oil control rings only control the oil spray present in the normal sump, but never liquid from an over-filled sump. As in normal operation. Got it.
  • If there is standing oil in the combustion chamber, then the engine will be burning LOTS of oil. Not out the valve cover, but out of the exhaust pipe with tell-tale clouds of white smoke. Easily understood. Got it.
  • And consider that when COLD, if all 3 ring gaps aligned and the sump was over-filled... Imagine that scenario....
Click to expand...
Thank you captain. Didn't know my rant needed a "but" for clarification. (y)

slomo


#15

J

joe74

StarTech said:
First question did yu use a flex or ridge hone? Did you mic the cylinder to see if it needed oversizing or if it was ovaled or tapered?
Click to expand...
flex and now it still spraying gas out of the carb.


#16

J

joe74

My cub still not running right. It spits gas out of carb and huffs and puff when deck is turned on.I have about two acres to mow and I'm diabled so my son is tring to mow with push mower and weed eater. I need your help. Thanks joey!


#17

S

slomo

What up Joey,

I'm personally unfamiliar with your carb.

Is there an electrical fuel pump possibly over powering the carb needle and seat? Normally on a TOTALLY different application being a car engine, say a Holley carb on a cheby 350, a bad needle and seat, you can see fuel dumping into the intake manifold at idle. Bowl is full, fuel going any place it can which is inside the intake manifold.

Is it huffing black smoke when the blades are turned on? If so, this is another rich running condition caused by the above messy paragraph. (bad needle and seat)

Make a video and post it up here. That would help a lot.

slomo


#18

J

joe74

slomo said:
What up Joey,

I'm personally unfamiliar with your carb.

Is there an electrical fuel pump possibly over powering the carb needle and seat? Normally on a TOTALLY different application being a car engine, say a Holley carb on a cheby 350, a bad needle and seat, you can see fuel dumping into the intake manifold at idle. Bowl is full, fuel going any place it can which is inside the intake manifold.

Is it huffing black smoke when the blades are turned on? If so, this is another rich running condition caused by the above messy paragraph. (bad needle and seat)

Make a video and post it up here. That would help a lot.

slomo
Click to expand...
It seems the right plug is not firing right. Took engine off tractor and seen a wire was off the right coil . this wire seem like it should go to kill switch but the other end go to left coil. Pulled right spark plug engine never changed swaped plugs and it ran the same.Is this my problem ? Thanks joey!


#19

J

joe74

Born2Mow said:
Joey -
Questions...
  • What is the age in years and hours run on this mower ?
  • How old is the fuel ? Is old fuel mixed with new fuel, or did you completely empty the fuel system over the winter ?
  • Have you checked the condition of the flywheel key ?
  • Is the top of the engine and the surrounding area carb linkage/ springs/ choke/ governor all cleaned and free of any grass clipping and crud that might be affecting the operation of the carb linkage ?
Just need this base-line info to get started.
Click to expand...
I don't know age . It was hardly used was gave to me by older gentalman. Hour meter doesn't work.all new fuel drained tank and cleaned carb engine pretty clean. Thanks joey!


#20

S

slomo

joe74 said:
It seems the right plug is not firing right. Took engine off tractor and seen a wire was off the right coil . this wire seem like it should go to kill switch but the other end go to left coil. Is this my problem ? Thanks joey!
Click to expand...
Sounds like you have two ignition coils. There should be one small gauge kill wire going to each coil, in a Y fashion. If you GROUND that wire, it will short the coil to ground killing the ignition. Engine will stop shortly after.

So if you have a lose wire bouncing around, it could short one coil out causing a misfire like sound slash behavior.

Pictures will help a lot. Show us what you have there Joey.

slomo


#21

J

joe74

slomo said:
Sounds like you have two ignition coils. There should be one small gauge kill wire going to each coil, in a Y fashion. If you GROUND that wire, it will short the coil to ground killing the ignition. Engine will stop shortly after.

So if you have a lose wire bouncing around, it could short one coil out causing a misfire like sound slash behavior.

Pictures will help a lot. Show us what you have there Joey.

slomo
Click to expand...
sorry can
slomo said:
Sounds like you have two ignition coils. There should be one small gauge kill wire going to each coil, in a Y fashion. If you GROUND that wire, it will short the coil to ground killing the ignition. Engine will stop shortly after.

So if you have a lose wire bouncing around, it could short one coil out causing a misfire like sound slash behavior.

Pictures will help a lot. Show us what you have there Joey.

slomo
Click to expand...

slomo said:
Sounds like you have two ignition coils. There should be one small gauge kill wire going to each coil, in a Y fashion. If you GROUND that wire, it will short the coil to ground killing the ignition. Engine will stop shortly after.

So if you have a lose wire bouncing around, it could short one coil out causing a misfire like sound slash behavior.

Pictures will help a lot. Show us what you have there Joey.

slomo
Click to expand...
sorry can't take pics.I also found my oil seal leaking and needs to be replaced. does oil affect the coil ?


#22

J

joe74

sorry can't take pics. I also found I have a oil seal leaking and coil has oil on it. Would this affect coil?


#23

S

slomo

joe74 said:
sorry can't take pics. I also found I have a oil seal leaking and coil has oil on it. Would this affect coil?
Click to expand...
No, might keep some surface rust off is all.

slomo


#24

S

slomo

There was a post recently on here about a twin engine and the carb spitting fuel. I didn't pay attention much as I don't own one of those. One of the more knowledgeable guys hopefully will chime it here.

slomo


#25

J

Joed756

Have you checked that breather hose yet???


#26

J

joe74

Joed756 said:
Have you checked that breather hose yet???
Click to expand...
I got it running good. someone had the valves way to tight and bent the push rod.But one small problem after getting all put back together the starter solenoid quit working but will start and run if i jump the starter. Is there a fuse for this? thanks for all the help joey!


#27

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

check for voltage on the trigger to the start, if you show 12.___ volts on the trigger wire with the key in the start position, most likely the solenoid is bad.


#28

S

slomo

joe74 said:
I got it running good. someone had the valves way to tight and bent the push rod.But one small problem after getting all put back together the starter solenoid quit working but will start and run if i jump the starter. Is there a fuse for this? thanks for all the help joey!
Click to expand...
Are your cylinder cooling fins clean, all the way around the cylinder?

Might look for a moved valve guide.


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