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Hi All,

New member here, but veteran lawn mower. My 1984 Honda 3813 (with the inline twin OHC GX360K1) just isn't cutting it any more. (sorry about that) Actually it's cutting just fine, and runs like new, but the 50-foot turning radius, clumsy brake/clutch, and open diff are finally irritating me to the point of considering something a few decades newer. But as always, nothing's ever simple.

I have a Cyclone Rake -- the smallest one -- that will have to be towed behind whatever I buy. I'm leaning toward a high-end homeowner/low-end commercial ZTR for example, the Gravely ZT-XL 42" or the Scag Freedom-Z 36".

These both come equipped with Kawa V-twins and Hydro-Gear drive. The Scag uses a better engine line than the Gravely, but the difference may be minimal. Scag uses the ZT-3100 (not sure which variant), Gravely the ZT-2800 (also unsure of variant). The principal difference between these two is that the ZT-2800 has an "open" hydraulic system and PM gears. The ZT-3100 has internal charge pumps and cut steel gears. They both have a maximum weight spec depending on variant. In both cases, the maximum weight spec (depending) doesn't have more than a few hundred lb headroom over the weight of the machine.

Now here's the problem: Scag says nothing about towing. Gravely says that towing 300lb is permitted with a 30lb "tongue" weight. The 300lb total should be okay, but the tongue weight is a problem because of the CR's design. It uses a dual-hitch system and casters such that the equipment is "locked" to the tractor. IOW, on a right turn, the CR will swing out to the left. This means that there will be quite a bit of weight on the hitch when the CR is full. I'd estimate as much as 175lb since essentially the full weight of the power unit is carried on the hitch.

What I don't understand is this hitch weight spec. I've sent both of them a technical service question about it, but I'm here looking for real world experience. The hitch weight is carried by the same structure on the mower as the operator. They do not have an operator weight spec! And around here, I've seen some pretty beefy operators. So why should the hitch weight spec be so low, when the operator, such as myself who's not a very big guy at all, could conceivably vary from 100lb to 300lb, let's say.

I'd appreciate some real-world experience from anyone who has towed stuff behind their ZTR. The CR people say you can do it, but then they sort of have to say that to sell their product. I think it's a close call. Looking at an outlay of $4K to $6K for these two machines, I'd like to have a lot warmer and fuzzier feeling about hitching up the CR to them.

Anyone have $.02 to throw my way?

Thanks!

I had a cyclone rake. Very, very good machine. However when I got a ZTR I sold it and went with a clam shell style collection system.

General, I researched this topic quite extensively before I bought a zt as I have a DR vac: what I found is that with the exception of the Exmark with the EZT, forgot the model, towing 2-300 lbs was not a concern, tongue weight was but a few reps told me that the issue was the front coming up not the machine being short on power, the solution: add weights but I doubt very much that you will have to.

Bottom line , tow on-be happy. :biggrin:

robert said:

General, I researched this topic quite extensively before I bought a zt as I have a DR vac: what I found is that with the exception of the Exmark with the EZT, forgot the model, towing 2-300 lbs was not a concern, tongue weight was but a few reps told me that the issue was the front coming up not the machine being short on power, the solution: add weights but I doubt very much that you will have to.

Bottom line , tow on-be happy. :biggrin:

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While I have not towed with my ZTR I agree with Robert the weight of the operator is over the rear wheels but due to the over hang of the engine the front of a ZTR is very light, I can easily pick up the front of mine.

If you tow something heavy it will want to wheelie all the time.

I would just keep the old tractor for towing.
That is why I keep my ole 430 JD it is a real horse when I need to pull something.
One other option would be a Grasshopper they have wheels on the back so they can pull a heavy load.

Down side is they take up a lot more space while turning and will cost twice what the mower you are considering will cost.

Hi Guys,

Wanted to close the loop on this issue. I appreciate your words of wisdom.

I opted to go with a new tractor -- Husqvarna YTH24V42LS. 24hp Kawasaki FR (bottom of the line!) V-Twin, Tufftorq K46 with Hilliard locking differential, three-blade fabricated deck. Supposed to be delivered before the end of June. Hopefully this ought to be able to manage the CR at least as well as the HT3813. For sure, it's not going to slip on wet leaves during fall cleanup as much as the Honda. There were some times when I actually had to leave the tractor in gear and jump off to push it out of a slippery spot. I won't miss that one bit.

This shopping experience was certainly an eye-opener -- made me respect how well Honda designed and built that HT3813. in 27 years, it has required exactly NO repair. Only routine maintenance. Still on the original timing belt. Original deck belt. And it would have the original PTO-deck belt too were it not for a tree branch that got kicked up into the belt on the PTO pulley that sort of shredded the edge of the belt. Original clutch. Sure, it shows signs of 27 years of service, but it still works like it did the day it was delivered. Amazing. The amazing little "14" hp (it must develop more than that) OHC motor still doesn't burn or leak a drop of oil. Heck, the oil barely changes color. Amazing.

But on the flip side, I'm looking forward to variable speed (getting whacked by tree branches isn't a lot of fun in 4th gear) and not getting stuck routinely. And I won't miss the enormous turning circle either.

So thanks for reading my post and for the replies. If anyone's interested, I'll post back with a review of the new machine once it's settled in.

GeneralEclectic said:

... If anyone's interested, I'll post back with a review of the new machine once it's settled in.

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definitely tell us about what you find & about your new mower. :smile:KennyV...

Good choice if you must pull the CR a ZTR would be better for mowing but not as good for towing.

I know this is an old thread... for the record I towed my cyclone rake with my snapper 13 hp 33" deck zrider very easily. 13hp was technically below the minimum per cr but it worked very well.