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Toro Timemaster exhaust leak and governor

#1

G

GMFI

Hello all,
Please excuse my long post, but I am trying to give a little background. I have a toro timemaster 30 and have had great luck for the first two years of ownership. Might have about 75 hours on it, only used on my flat fescue lawn under 1/2 acre. About a month ago I noticed what seemed to be an exhaust leak at the muffler, since then I have replaced the exhaust gaskets, thermostat and finally muffler and still have the issue. When I first removed the muffler most of the threads on the forward bolt came out with it. I have since installed heli coils and have no issues getting 85 in/lb torque on the bolts. As I was ordering some parts for the engine I decided to replace the belts, but not the blade timing belt. All seems to be adjusted fine, but I did notice a lack of power (governor). I searched this site and did find some insight on the governor adjustment but it did not help. I know I should have taken it to a toro service shop and had my problem taken care of under warranty, however I purchased it at the home depot and in the past shops have not wanted to service what they did not sell, my experience anyway. So in closing, I have what sounds like an exhaust leak and a governor out of adjustment. Any input would be greatly appreciated. I typically fix more than I break, but not in this case.


#2

M

mechanic mark

Post all engine numbers from engine data plate as well as engine manufacturer.

https://www.briggsandstratton.com/n...nginemanuals.html?searchrequested=121s02-0130

http://www.mymowerparts.com/pdf/Briggs-&-Stratton-Spec-Charts/ your engine repair manual is 276781, click & download at bottom left of screen, you may choose to save manual.


#3

G

GMFI

Thanks Mark,
It is a Briggs and Stratton, 121s02-0130-f1, 13030563. The mower itself is a 2013 model, 20199.


#4

G

GMFI

Looked thru the link you provided. Model 120000, 190cc.


#5

G

GMFI

Thanks again Mark. I found the manual online a couple of weeks ago, but did not read thru it carefully. I will go thru it and post what I find.


#6

S

sjessen

Mine did that. thinking it was the head gasket.


#7

G

GMFI

It is the head gasket. Blown right next to the spark plug which ends up being adjacent to the muffler. In the end, I am glad I found the problem, just very disappointed. What did I do to cause this? I typically run 93 octane premium exxon in my stihl equipment and run it in the mower as well. Thought I was doing the right thing. Anyone know if this is a design flaw? This is certainly not typical of my experience with Toro products, although I know I am disappointed with the briggs at this point.


#8

S

sjessen

GMFI said:
It is the head gasket. Blown right next to the spark plug which ends up being adjacent to the muffler. In the end, I am glad I found the problem, just very disappointed. What did I do to cause this? I typically run 93 octane premium exxon in my stihl equipment and run it in the mower as well. Thought I was doing the right thing. Anyone know if this is a design flaw? This is certainly not typical of my experience with Toro products, although I know I am disappointed with the briggs at this point.
Click to expand...

Mine did the exact same thing in the same place so likely a design/component flaw rather than operator error. The head gasket on my mower went out at likely less than 50 hours but since I use it commercially there was no warranty. Some have had great luck with these Briggs engines while many others like us have had lots of problems. Hopefully, another manufacturer will develop an engine in this class that is more reliable/powerful. Have spoken with a Toro rep about this engine and his comment was the other options had problems in the supply line with parts, etc. If the market share grows so will the variety of engine offerings. Btw, Sarlo is/has come out with a heavier duty 30" mower with a different engine but it is around $2000.


#9

G

GMFI

I think it is probably a design flaw as well. I emailed Toro to ask about the problem, but it will probably be a few days before I hear back. I guess I will just fix it and hope for the best. I thought about purchasing this mower for a year before I finally pulled the trigger. It was a want, not a need as I just cut my small yard with it. I really enjoyed it and hope to get it back together next weekend. I have a SR621 cub cadet as my backup, but it is hard to go back to a 22" mower. Thanks for letting me know about the head gasket, I just knew it was an exhaust leak.


#10

S

sjessen

GMFI said:
I think it is probably a design flaw as well. I emailed Toro to ask about the problem, but it will probably be a few days before I hear back. I guess I will just fix it and hope for the best. I thought about purchasing this mower for a year before I finally pulled the trigger. It was a want, not a need as I just cut my small yard with it. I really enjoyed it and hope to get it back together next weekend. I have a SR621 cub cadet as my backup, but it is hard to go back to a 22" mower. Thanks for letting me know about the head gasket, I just knew it was an exhaust leak.
Click to expand...

You are quite welcome.

Have had no further head gasket problems since having the first one replaced. Perhaps Briggs got a defective batch of gaskets.


#11

G

GMFI

Toro contacted me today, they are not aware of any issues with the engine on this machine. Advised me to contact an authorized Toro service dealer. Pretty much what I expected, but I thought it was worth asking about.


#12

B

bertsmobile1

sjessen said:
You are quite welcome.

Have had no further head gasket problems since having the first one replaced. Perhaps Briggs got a defective batch of gaskets.
Click to expand...

No there is a random problem with the castings for these engines.
Some will just continually blow the head gasket between the pushrods & cylinder.
Generally I face both the head & the block which seems to solve the problem most times.
On some engines I have to resort to helicoiling all of the head bolt holes and ramp up the torque to 35 / 40 ft lbs.

Machinhg defect / casting defect don't know but the facing works wonders.
I have had engines come in that have blown the head gasket from ne and the owners was ubaware so just kept on using it till it would not start.


#13

G

GMFI

I am sure there is some issue, but maybe it is not as widespread as other problems with this mower. I was just relaying what Toro told me which is what I expected they would say. I did try to block the deck and head with some 400 grit, but that is about as far as I am willing to go right now. If it lets go again I will resurface. Thanks for the tip.


#14

G

GMFI

Fixed. Head gasket arrived today. Buttoned it up after work and all is well once again. Hopefully it will stay together and I can get back to enjoying it. Thanks again to everyone for all of the help, I really appreciate it.


#15

B

bertsmobile1

After a few mows , recheck the valve lash they can go out as the head settles that is why the dealers are supposed to check them at the first service.
Glad to see it has been resolved


#16

B

briandh

GMFI said:
Hello all,
Please excuse my long post, but I am trying to give a little background. I have a toro timemaster 30 and have had great luck for the first two years of ownership. Might have about 75 hours on it, only used on my flat fescue lawn under 1/2 acre. About a month ago I noticed what seemed to be an exhaust leak at the muffler, since then I have replaced the exhaust gaskets, thermostat and finally muffler and still have the issue. When I first removed the muffler most of the threads on the forward bolt came out with it. I have since installed heli coils and have no issues getting 85 in/lb torque on the bolts. As I was ordering some parts for the engine I decided to replace the belts, but not the blade timing belt. All seems to be adjusted fine, but I did notice a lack of power (governor). I searched this site and did find some insight on the governor adjustment but it did not help. I know I should have taken it to a toro service shop and had my problem taken care of under warranty, however I purchased it at the home depot and in the past shops have not wanted to service what they did not sell, my experience anyway. So in closing, I have what sounds like an exhaust leak and a governor out of adjustment. Any input would be greatly appreciated. I typically fix more than I break, but not in this case.
Click to expand...

What size hole did you drill out for the heli coils? I have the same problem, this might fix it.


#17

B

bertsmobile1

Same size bolts.
The helicoil tap is a lot more rounded than the std tap used for the bolts and the insert adds a lot of strength .
The reason why you torque to 20 - 25 PSI is not the bolt but the strength of the threaded region of the head


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