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Toro TimeCutter SS4235 dies when handles are pulled in
#1
M
Moonwink
M
Moonwink
I'd like to revisit this problem. (Originally posted by wrdabney on 03-10-2014) I cannot post the link because I lack privilege. I tried replying to that post but it didn't bump it to the new message pile so I'm starting over.
wrdabney posted a YouTube video titled simply "Mower" that shows his mower dying every time he pulls the handles in but I can't post that link either.
I've got a 2011 Toro Time Cutter SS4235 (I recently got as a gift) just like the OP and I'm having the exact same problem. I could make the same video. I get it started and pull on either or both handles to move it and the engine dies. I've tried changing the safety switches on both of the handles without any results. I replaced the start switch because it had been abused and nothing changed. I just replaced the control box thinking it had to be the problem (because it wasn't the safety switches) and there was no change. I don't have an hour meter. Recently the battery is going bad and I've had to jump start it with an external battery pack and it's started with the seat up out of the way and continues to run until I sit down and pull the handles in. I haven't changed the PTO switch. If the PTO has the blades turning, the engine dies when I get off the seat.
Now here's the kicker: If I fool around with repeated attempts at pulling the handles together long enough (10 or 20 times), it will eventually take off and keep running. I can cut my whole yard - as long as I don't take a break and stop mowing. I can pull the handles out and stop for a few seconds and go again but if I get off and pick up a branch or some trash, it'll die when I pull the handles in again. The process starts all over again. I've even tried leaving the engine running (PTO off) when I got off to do something but still had to play with it when I got back on to move it.
The only control I haven't replaced is the PTO switch. The mower dies just trying to move when the handles (either one or both) are pulled in without the blades turning. It does the same thing whether the blades are engages or not.
Any Toro Time Cutter experts out there?
I found another post with the same issue: Toro SS4235 stalling issues
(I'd have posted a link to it but as a new member I lack privilege to post links.)
Toro
Model No.: 74624
Serial No.: 311008868
Kawasaki
Code: FR600V-AS05-R
E/NO: FR600VA15938
wrdabney posted a YouTube video titled simply "Mower" that shows his mower dying every time he pulls the handles in but I can't post that link either.
I've got a 2011 Toro Time Cutter SS4235 (I recently got as a gift) just like the OP and I'm having the exact same problem. I could make the same video. I get it started and pull on either or both handles to move it and the engine dies. I've tried changing the safety switches on both of the handles without any results. I replaced the start switch because it had been abused and nothing changed. I just replaced the control box thinking it had to be the problem (because it wasn't the safety switches) and there was no change. I don't have an hour meter. Recently the battery is going bad and I've had to jump start it with an external battery pack and it's started with the seat up out of the way and continues to run until I sit down and pull the handles in. I haven't changed the PTO switch. If the PTO has the blades turning, the engine dies when I get off the seat.
Now here's the kicker: If I fool around with repeated attempts at pulling the handles together long enough (10 or 20 times), it will eventually take off and keep running. I can cut my whole yard - as long as I don't take a break and stop mowing. I can pull the handles out and stop for a few seconds and go again but if I get off and pick up a branch or some trash, it'll die when I pull the handles in again. The process starts all over again. I've even tried leaving the engine running (PTO off) when I got off to do something but still had to play with it when I got back on to move it.
The only control I haven't replaced is the PTO switch. The mower dies just trying to move when the handles (either one or both) are pulled in without the blades turning. It does the same thing whether the blades are engages or not.
Any Toro Time Cutter experts out there?
I found another post with the same issue: Toro SS4235 stalling issues
(I'd have posted a link to it but as a new member I lack privilege to post links.)
Originally Posted by linwoodcampbell View Post
This is a know issue from Toro. Contact your local Toro dealer for a warranty repair. It involves a burr in the brake that has to be removed.
The brakes on this mower are a couple of spur gears on both rear wheels the control box flips a lever to engage. When the gears are engages, there is no way to turn the rear wheels. With this mower being 7 years old now, I doubt Toro will help me any.
Toro
Model No.: 74624
Serial No.: 311008868
Kawasaki
Code: FR600V-AS05-R
E/NO: FR600VA15938
#2
B
bertsmobile1
Go to the toro web site with a copy of your machine numbers ( photograph the ID plate ) and download your repair manuals.
They are all coded with numbers and I have forgotten which one is which.
there are 4 of them ,
1) engine
2) mower
3) quality of cut
4) demystification guide
The last one is what you need.
It is the wiring diagrams and circuit theory for Toro mowers.
There is no single safety switch that works alone, they are all paired.
And from memory on your machine it is the lap bars + brake switch / lap bars + seat Switch
B
bertsmobile1
I'd like to revisit this problem. (Originally posted by wrdabney on 03-10-2014) I cannot post the link because I lack privilege. I tried replying to that post but it didn't bump it to the new message pile so I'm starting over.
wrdabney posted a YouTube video titled simply "Mower" that shows his mower dying every time he pulls the handles in but I can't post that link either.
I've got a 2011 Toro Time Cutter SS4235 (I recently got as a gift) just like the OP and I'm having the exact same problem. I could make the same video. I get it started and pull on either or both handles to move it and the engine dies. I've tried changing the safety switches on both of the handles without any results. I replaced the start switch because it had been abused and nothing changed. I just replaced the control box thinking it had to be the problem (because it wasn't the safety switches) and there was no change. I don't have an hour meter. Recently the battery is going bad and I've had to jump start it with an external battery pack and it's started with the seat up out of the way and continues to run until I sit down and pull the handles in. I haven't changed the PTO switch. If the PTO has the blades turning, the engine dies when I get off the seat.
Now here's the kicker: If I fool around with repeated attempts at pulling the handles together long enough (10 or 20 times), it will eventually take off and keep running. I can cut my whole yard - as long as I don't take a break and stop mowing. I can pull the handles out and stop for a few seconds and go again but if I get off and pick up a branch or some trash, it'll die when I pull the handles in again. The process starts all over again. I've even tried leaving the engine running (PTO off) when I got off to do something but still had to play with it when I got back on to move it.
The only control I haven't replaced is the PTO switch. The mower dies just trying to move when the handles (either one or both) are pulled in without the blades turning. It does the same thing whether the blades are engages or not.
Any Toro Time Cutter experts out there?
I found another post with the same issue: Toro SS4235 stalling issues
(I'd have posted a link to it but as a new member I lack privilege to post links.)
Toro
Model No.: 74624
Serial No.: 311008868
Kawasaki
Code: FR600V-AS05-R
E/NO: FR600VA15938
Go to the toro web site with a copy of your machine numbers ( photograph the ID plate ) and download your repair manuals.
They are all coded with numbers and I have forgotten which one is which.
there are 4 of them ,
1) engine
2) mower
3) quality of cut
4) demystification guide
The last one is what you need.
It is the wiring diagrams and circuit theory for Toro mowers.
There is no single safety switch that works alone, they are all paired.
And from memory on your machine it is the lap bars + brake switch / lap bars + seat Switch
#3
M
Moonwink
M
Moonwink
I don't see the document you're referring to. Here's a picture of all of them.
This seems to be a common problem on this model. The message I referred to above never was answered and the OP never came back to say what the fix was.
This seems to be a common problem on this model. The message I referred to above never was answered and the OP never came back to say what the fix was.
#4
B
bertsmobile1
Well we will be standing on virgin soil, always fun. Nut it out & you too can be a hero.
The selection that came up was not as I remembered it but to be fair, I got up at 3 am every day for a week in order to download all of the Toro manuals in my ISP's "off peak" period.
Toro call them all "Service Manuals" so download both of them and the parts book as well.
Thus we will all be singing from the same book.
I will download them myself just to make sure they are what I think they are.
Considering it is a free down laod you may as well pop a copy of the operators manual on your computer as well, that way it won't get lost.
SO when you are done, get back and we will take it from there.
In the mean time I will troll through the hard drive for the SS4235 manuals and check the electrics are there of if you will need to chase up another file.
Usually it will be a fault in the parking brake / lap bars circuit ( including relay if fitted ).
If you have the electric brake model there is a brake relay and it prevents the mower moving if the brakes are applied asthe brake is a rack & pinion arangement and you destroy it if you try to drive with it engaged.
Rivets is the go to man for Toro Problems so hopefully he will join in before I make too much of a jackass of myself ( easily done ).
B
bertsmobile1
I don't see the document you're referring to. Here's a picture of all of them.
View attachment 36865
This seems to be a common problem on this model. The message I referred to above never was answered and the OP never came back to say what the fix was.
Well we will be standing on virgin soil, always fun. Nut it out & you too can be a hero.
The selection that came up was not as I remembered it but to be fair, I got up at 3 am every day for a week in order to download all of the Toro manuals in my ISP's "off peak" period.
Toro call them all "Service Manuals" so download both of them and the parts book as well.
Thus we will all be singing from the same book.
I will download them myself just to make sure they are what I think they are.
Considering it is a free down laod you may as well pop a copy of the operators manual on your computer as well, that way it won't get lost.
SO when you are done, get back and we will take it from there.
In the mean time I will troll through the hard drive for the SS4235 manuals and check the electrics are there of if you will need to chase up another file.
Usually it will be a fault in the parking brake / lap bars circuit ( including relay if fitted ).
If you have the electric brake model there is a brake relay and it prevents the mower moving if the brakes are applied asthe brake is a rack & pinion arangement and you destroy it if you try to drive with it engaged.
Rivets is the go to man for Toro Problems so hopefully he will join in before I make too much of a jackass of myself ( easily done ).
#5
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Well it is amazing what you find when you read the manual
In the mower service manual , on page 7-8 in the one I have here are two you tube links.
The first one explains the wiring and the second one specifically shows you problems with the brake control module.
The first was a bit dissapointing as They sort of hinted they would tell you how to electrically diagnose a problem with the actuator, but they don't, however you can nut out what the pin readings should be, but you can't take back readings without destroying the moisture intergity of the module.
Despite being called a brake module it is actually a mower engine control module.
Read the book, watch the vidoes then let us know how you get on.
In the mower service manual , on page 7-8 in the one I have here are two you tube links.
The first one explains the wiring and the second one specifically shows you problems with the brake control module.
The first was a bit dissapointing as They sort of hinted they would tell you how to electrically diagnose a problem with the actuator, but they don't, however you can nut out what the pin readings should be, but you can't take back readings without destroying the moisture intergity of the module.
Despite being called a brake module it is actually a mower engine control module.
Read the book, watch the vidoes then let us know how you get on.
#6
M
Moonwink
M
Moonwink
I can't find any link to the FR600 Kawasaki Engine service manual except for "manualslib.com" has but when I visit there and look at pages 7-8 they're still introduction pages. If you've got a link, I'd be happy to have a copy of the service manual. I've downloaded everything else I could find related to this mower. It turned cold here making working on the mower a lower priority till later this week. Are the links to the video shown in the service manual? I watched one of Toro's YouTube videos about the control box and copied a few screen shots showing which circuit come into play under the various situations - even downloaded the video for reference.
Just wish someone that's already run across this problem would respond with the fix. I don't think I'm the first one to have this problem as shown in the video I mentioned in the previous post about this topic.
Just wish someone that's already run across this problem would respond with the fix. I don't think I'm the first one to have this problem as shown in the video I mentioned in the previous post about this topic.
Well it is amazing what you find when you read the manual
In the engine service manual , on page 7-8 in the one I have here are two you tube links.
The first one explains the wiring and the second one specifically shows you problems with the brake control module.
The first was a bit disappointing as They sort of hinted they would tell you how to electrically diagnose a problem with the actuator, but they don't, however you can nut out what the pin readings should be, but you can't take back readings without destroying the moisture intergity of the module.
Despite being called a brake module it is actually a mower engine control module.
Read the book, watch the videos then let us know how you get on.
#7
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Sorry, typo on my behalf it is in the mower manual that you put the links to.
Hopefully you have already downloaded them and started to read them so come across the you tube links.
Hopefully you have already downloaded them and started to read them so come across the you tube links.
#8
M
Moonwink
M
Moonwink
Is there any way you could be a little more specific about those page numbers? The mower service manual is in sections. Section one has only one page "1-1" covering safety information, then section two covers specifications and section 3 is about the chassis. All the pages begin with the section number followed by the page number. I haven't run across any pages with links to a the videos you're mentioning. After I've posted enough, I'll be able to post a link and that will help a lot.
#10
M
Moonwink
M
Moonwink
bertsmobile1, Sorry I'm such a dummy. I finally realized what you meant and found the right pages = Section 7, page 8 (page 118 of the PDF file) of the "2011-2013 TimeCutter SS/MX/ZX Service Manual"
Thank you for pointing out my error. I just watched the "YouTube.com/watch?v=JgZRN-Jn4JE" and "YouTube.com/watch?v=buBEukVT-so" videos about Troubleshooting the Brake Control and Service Bulletin #31 about the issue I'm having. It sure sounds like that's what I need to concentrate on and eliminate that as a cause.
The brake control box levers not hitting their stops by completing their full travel every time could be the cause of my problem. That would be the reason repeated moving the levers in and out finally allows the mower to cut my whole yard - as long as I don't stop!
As soon as I can get out in the yard (rain changing to snow predicted here this evening) to have a look I'll get back say yes or no.
Anyone have access to Service Bulletin #31?
I wish I could transcribe the first video and pictures to go along with it as they point out the purpose of each wire going to the control module.
Thank you for pointing out my error. I just watched the "YouTube.com/watch?v=JgZRN-Jn4JE" and "YouTube.com/watch?v=buBEukVT-so" videos about Troubleshooting the Brake Control and Service Bulletin #31 about the issue I'm having. It sure sounds like that's what I need to concentrate on and eliminate that as a cause.
The brake control box levers not hitting their stops by completing their full travel every time could be the cause of my problem. That would be the reason repeated moving the levers in and out finally allows the mower to cut my whole yard - as long as I don't stop!
As soon as I can get out in the yard (rain changing to snow predicted here this evening) to have a look I'll get back say yes or no.
Anyone have access to Service Bulletin #31?
I wish I could transcribe the first video and pictures to go along with it as they point out the purpose of each wire going to the control module.
#11
B
bertsmobile1
If Rivets dose not answer you , you could send him a PM.
Not sure if he answers them ( I don't ) but he works for an authorised Toro agent.
I am just a hack so can't access any of that stuff.
And don't feel bad.
I do repairs all day every day and had to watch the first one 3 times before I took it all in and that was with the circuit diagram printed out A3 size right on my desk.
The problem comes from all of the shaved monkeys , video cameras in hand with an ego the size of Manhattan and an interlect the size of their boot who continually post videos on how to defeat safety devices..
As they are manditory, naturally they will get more complicated and thus more expensive and become non servicable so they can not easily be bypassed.
The old system used a 1/2 dozen switches total cost about $ 20
That module is a touch more expensive.
B
bertsmobile1
bertsmobile1, Sorry I'm such a dummy. I finally realized what you meant and found the right pages = Section 7, page 8 (page 118 of the PDF file) of the "2011-2013 TimeCutter SS/MX/ZX Service Manual"
Thank you for pointing out my error. I just watched the "YouTube.com/watch?v=JgZRN-Jn4JE" and "YouTube.com/watch?v=buBEukVT-so" videos about Troubleshooting the Brake Control and Service Bulletin #31 about the issue I'm having. It sure sounds like that's what I need to concentrate on and eliminate that as a cause.
The brake control box levers not hitting their stops by completing their full travel every time could be the cause of my problem. That would be the reason repeated moving the levers in and out finally allows the mower to cut my whole yard - as long as I don't stop!
As soon as I can get out in the yard (rain changing to snow predicted here this evening) to have a look I'll get back say yes or no.
Anyone have access to Service Bulletin #31?
I wish I could transcribe the first video and pictures to go along with it as they point out the purpose of each wire going to the control module.
If Rivets dose not answer you , you could send him a PM.
Not sure if he answers them ( I don't ) but he works for an authorised Toro agent.
I am just a hack so can't access any of that stuff.
And don't feel bad.
I do repairs all day every day and had to watch the first one 3 times before I took it all in and that was with the circuit diagram printed out A3 size right on my desk.
The problem comes from all of the shaved monkeys , video cameras in hand with an ego the size of Manhattan and an interlect the size of their boot who continually post videos on how to defeat safety devices..
As they are manditory, naturally they will get more complicated and thus more expensive and become non servicable so they can not easily be bypassed.
The old system used a 1/2 dozen switches total cost about $ 20
That module is a touch more expensive.
#12
M
Moonwink
M
Moonwink
I got it out yesterday and raised it up to check the movement of the brake rods. The new control seemed to have full movement from stop to stop but I oiled the rods up anyway. The rods didn't appear to be hanging up at all.
I forgot I had to jumper the seat switch to check the switches on the drive handles. I took out the seat switch and held it compressed and all seemed to work correctly. So I'm not sure where my problem was. Remember it was intermittent - if I fooled around pulling and pushing the handles back and forth eventually I could cut my whole yard.
The seat cushion is completely detached from the metal backing. I keep it in place with a bungee. It could have shifted off the seat switch enough to cause the problem. At least now after watching the YouTube video about TSB #31, I now understand which switches and linkage to look at should I have problems again.
Thank you VERY MUCH bertsmobile1 for sticking with me until my old brain was able to comprehend the cause of the problem. I'm in good shape now.
I forgot I had to jumper the seat switch to check the switches on the drive handles. I took out the seat switch and held it compressed and all seemed to work correctly. So I'm not sure where my problem was. Remember it was intermittent - if I fooled around pulling and pushing the handles back and forth eventually I could cut my whole yard.
The seat cushion is completely detached from the metal backing. I keep it in place with a bungee. It could have shifted off the seat switch enough to cause the problem. At least now after watching the YouTube video about TSB #31, I now understand which switches and linkage to look at should I have problems again.
Thank you VERY MUCH bertsmobile1 for sticking with me until my old brain was able to comprehend the cause of the problem. I'm in good shape now.
#13
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
And thank you for the follow up.
Seat switches activating because they are too sensititive on some ZTR's is not all that uncommon.
Keep in touch
Seat switches activating because they are too sensititive on some ZTR's is not all that uncommon.
Keep in touch
#14
W
wnd1@numail.org
W
wnd1@numail.org
Problem is the brake control module. Ebay purchase $82.00 to fix. Located under the frame. Jack the mower to access the module. Lift the seat and take 4 screws out and underneath drop the brake arms. Replace and the problem goes away. Just about drove me nuts before I came upon this control box. 30 minute fix.
#15
P
Point37
P
Point37
brake control module info...
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showt...orward-or-back?p=289703&viewfull=1#post289703
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showt...orward-or-back?p=289703&viewfull=1#post289703
#16
1
100 td
1
100 td
My MX5060 started playing up a couple of days ago, 150 hours on it, I pulled the brake actuator assembly and undid the bottom of it, sprayed some silicone spray on the bushes and gear shafts and motor(tiny motor same as in a car door lock), re-assembled and installed and is working again. How long for, who knows?