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Toro SS5000, brakes not holding mower still
#1
J
JoeKarpowski
J
JoeKarpowski
I have a 2015 SS5000, model #74631. My issue is that the for the past 2 years the brakes are not holding the mower still while it's on my trailer. When I push the handlebars out and turn the mower off, I hear them engage and I can't move the mower by hand (unless I manually disengage the brakes, fold the handlebars in and turn the key to the "on" position.) When I'm using the mower and go to climb off, but leave it running and push the handlebars out, I cannot move the mower by trying to push it. However, if the mower is on the trailer and I'm pulling the trailer around, the mower rolls around on the trailer unless I strap it down. Also, I am looking for a part # for the small belt that goes around the engine pulley. Any help with these two issues is greatly appreciated. Side note: I replaced the deck and bought all new pulleys and the pulley assembly belt last year.
#2
StarTech
StarTech
Mostly the brake arms at the hydros are worn out and needs replacing. Toro PN 106-8688 (Hydro Gear PN 70865). Note the cog gears splines sometime can wear out too. If so they are Toro PN 106-8694 (Hydro Gear PN 51635).
Don't just glace at the arms either as they can appear good, you physically check them.
Don't just glace at the arms either as they can appear good, you physically check them.
#4
H
hlw49
H
hlw49
The brakes won't hold a mower on a trailer due to bouncing of the trailer. Best to strap it down. If you are involved in an accident and the mower comes off the trailler and causes damage it is your fault no matter who caused the accident. Strap it down and be safe.
#5
StarTech
StarTech
Good point...Its always better to use common sense. Sorta like remembering to put the pin in the tilt bed trailers. I had one customer last year to back in my driveway and when he stop the trailer bed tilt and the mower came off. I put a bolt and nut on the tongue until he could the pin that he left at home.The brakes won't hold a mower on a trailer due to bouncing of the trailer. Best to strap it down. If you are involved in an accident and the mower comes off the trailler and causes damage it is your fault no matter who caused the accident. Strap it down and be safe.
#6
Tiger Small Engine
Tiger Small Engine
I used to mow commercially for ten years. You have to always strap the mowers down, every time. It is a pain, but cheap insurance. What if you have a bad accident and everything goes flying off of the trailer?Good point...Its always better to use common sense. Sorta like remembering to put the pin in the tilt bed trailers. I had one customer last year to back in my driveway and when he stop the trailer bed tilt and the mower came off. I put a bolt and nut on the tongue until he could the pin that he left at home.
#7
StarTech
And just think all I was needing was 8-10 17gal storage bins for new parts in my inventory. I use a bin location storage system so parts are easier to find later after they have been stored. Done filled one yesterday.
StarTech
And the way people drive now days it is easy to get into a crash. I was at the local Home Depot yesterday and I was a nervous wreck when I left the parking lot. It seemed that everyone was on a cell phone.I used to mow commercially for ten years. You have to always strap the mowers down, every time. It is a pain, but cheap insurance. What if you have a bad accident and everything goes flying off of the trailer?
And just think all I was needing was 8-10 17gal storage bins for new parts in my inventory. I use a bin location storage system so parts are easier to find later after they have been stored. Done filled one yesterday.
#8
J
JoeKarpowski
J
JoeKarpowski
I have been pulling trailers for over 40 years and know the ins and outs of securing cargo and towing safely. I never said I don't strap the mower down, just what happens if I don't, and then move the trailer. While the comments on that topic are insightful, that's not what I asked about. If you can't contribute to the information I asked about, kindly move on to the next post you might have something insightful to comment on that might actually have to do with what the poster is asking about. Thanks....
#9
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
The brake is a rack & pinion
The teeth do brake off or wear down over time
However line the others I would expect it to be sliding Rather than the wheels turning .
Both Rack & pinion are wear parts so are replaceable but they are NOT PART OF THE MOWER.
They are part of the pump/motor unit so need to be purchased from the hydro maker
There should be a barcode sticker on the tranny ( usually 2 or 3 ) to identify the maker , model & serial numbers .
Most have parts books on line .
Been long while since I played with one but from memory ( probably wrong ) the rack is cast zinc & the pinion is steel .
The teeth do brake off or wear down over time
However line the others I would expect it to be sliding Rather than the wheels turning .
Both Rack & pinion are wear parts so are replaceable but they are NOT PART OF THE MOWER.
They are part of the pump/motor unit so need to be purchased from the hydro maker
There should be a barcode sticker on the tranny ( usually 2 or 3 ) to identify the maker , model & serial numbers .
Most have parts books on line .
Been long while since I played with one but from memory ( probably wrong ) the rack is cast zinc & the pinion is steel .
#10
StarTech
Also Toro is selling them as well as Hydro Gear but HG will be lower in cost normally as you take out one of the middle men; hence, the given part numbers.
And the pinion (cog) is steel. The rack (brake arm) are what appear to be cast aluminum. They maybe zinc but appear to more of a cast aluminum to me.
StarTech
Yes in this case they are calling the racks, brake arms and the pinions, cogs.The brake is a rack & pinion
The teeth do brake off or wear down over time
Both Rack & pinion are wear parts so are replaceable but they are NOT PART OF THE MOWER.
They are part of the pump/motor unit so need to be purchased from the hydro maker
There should be a barcode sticker on the tranny ( usually 2 or 3 ) to identify the maker , model & serial numbers .
Been long while since I played with one but from memory ( probably wrong ) the rack is cast zinc & the pinion is steel .
Also Toro is selling them as well as Hydro Gear but HG will be lower in cost normally as you take out one of the middle men; hence, the given part numbers.
And the pinion (cog) is steel. The rack (brake arm) are what appear to be cast aluminum. They maybe zinc but appear to more of a cast aluminum to me.
#11
J
JoeKarpowski
J
JoeKarpowski
Good information, thank you!Yes in this case they are calling the racks, brake arms and the pinions, cogs.
Also Toro is selling them as well as Hydro Gear but HG will be lower in cost normally as you take out one of the middle men; hence, the given part numbers.
And the pinion (cog) is steel. The rack (brake arm) are what appear to be cast aluminum. They maybe zinc but appear to more of a cast aluminum to me.
#12
H
hlw49
H
hlw49
I think I did contribute to the information you ask about and what could happen if you didn't. "The brakes won't hold a mower on a trailer due to bouncing of the trailer. Best to strap it down. If you are involved in an accident and the mower comes off the trailler and causes damage it is your fault no matter who caused the accident. Strap it down and be safe."I have been pulling trailers for over 40 years and know the ins and outs of securing cargo and towing safely. I never said I don't strap the mower down, just what happens if I don't, and then move the trailer. While the comments on that topic are insightful, that's not what I asked about. If you can't contribute to the information I asked about, kindly move on to the next post you might have something insightful to comment on that might actually have to do with what the poster is asking about. Thanks....
#13
Tiger Small Engine
Tiger Small Engine
I think I did contribute to the information you ask about and what could happen if you didn't. "The brakes won't hold a mower on a trailer due to bouncing of the trailer. Best to strap it down. If you are involved in an accident and the mower comes off the trailler and causes damage it is your fault no matter who caused the accident. Strap it down and be safe."
Hlw49- You and I both contributed. In fact, there are a select few members who try and actually do help people with questions and concerns, on an ongoing and consistent basis.I think I did contribute to the information you ask about and what could happen if you didn't. "The brakes won't hold a mower on a trailer due to bouncing of the trailer. Best to strap it down. If you are involved in an accident and the mower comes off the trailler and causes damage it is your fault no matter who caused the accident. Strap it down and be safe."
#14
J
JoeKarpowski
J
JoeKarpowski
I asked if anyone knew WHY the brakes weren't holding, not would happen if I didn't strap the mower down. If I had asked what will happen if I don't strap the mower down, I would agree your response was appropriate- but that's not what I asked about. Have a great day.Hlw49- You and I both contributed. In fact, there are a select few members who try and actually do help people with questions and concerns, on an ongoing and consistent basis.
#15
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
It is a dead man system meaning that the brake is normally on & the power turns it off .
It is impossible to slip unless the teeth are very badly worn or the spring that holds the arms to the cogs is week
Unless you get good air under you wheels I cannot see their being enough inertia in the weight of the arms to flick them off the cogs
Check both are in good condition I often see one arm with stripped teeth while the other is fine.
Teeth strip because the neutral is not adjusted properly or people turn the brake on while the machine is still rolling.
It is impossible to slip unless the teeth are very badly worn or the spring that holds the arms to the cogs is week
Unless you get good air under you wheels I cannot see their being enough inertia in the weight of the arms to flick them off the cogs
Check both are in good condition I often see one arm with stripped teeth while the other is fine.
Teeth strip because the neutral is not adjusted properly or people turn the brake on while the machine is still rolling.
#16
StarTech
StarTech
The Toro SS5000 uses an electric brake control module so it is not normally a problem with the operator engaging the parking brakes while the mower is moving. Now these modules to go bad but most times they will not allow the mower to even start when they do. What I see here is water getting the water resistance connector, corroding the terminals, and shorting them out.
And I had one new module to fail out of the blue. With it just installed 15 minutes later it started cycling on its own. Magic smoke was release and that was it. Now of course I had also install a new harness per the warranty requirement of the new module. Glad I did buy both from the same place as they tried getting out of the part warranty. I have since gotten just the terminals and connector so I can just replace the bad harness end now.
It not totally impossible but is hard for the brakes to slip the cogs. Now I got one customer with a Bad Boy that has a manual brake release that wears out the cogs as the hydros can power through the braking. He keeps forgetting to release the brakes. It done cost him a RH hydro replacement. Of course now he has a new engine short block because he forgot to put oil back in the engine after draining the oil.
What many techs overlook is that the brake arms can wear in away that if you just take a quick look at them they appear okay. This is because the teeth wear U shape leaving the outer edges of the teeth intact giving a false view of being still good. I highly suggest all techs check these brake arms at least during the annual oil changes even the customer isn't complaining of braking problems. Just to put some blue Loctite back on the mounting screw threads if you remove the brake arms.
And I had one new module to fail out of the blue. With it just installed 15 minutes later it started cycling on its own. Magic smoke was release and that was it. Now of course I had also install a new harness per the warranty requirement of the new module. Glad I did buy both from the same place as they tried getting out of the part warranty. I have since gotten just the terminals and connector so I can just replace the bad harness end now.
It not totally impossible but is hard for the brakes to slip the cogs. Now I got one customer with a Bad Boy that has a manual brake release that wears out the cogs as the hydros can power through the braking. He keeps forgetting to release the brakes. It done cost him a RH hydro replacement. Of course now he has a new engine short block because he forgot to put oil back in the engine after draining the oil.
What many techs overlook is that the brake arms can wear in away that if you just take a quick look at them they appear okay. This is because the teeth wear U shape leaving the outer edges of the teeth intact giving a false view of being still good. I highly suggest all techs check these brake arms at least during the annual oil changes even the customer isn't complaining of braking problems. Just to put some blue Loctite back on the mounting screw threads if you remove the brake arms.