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Toro dies going downhill

#1

F

Fritzz

I recently changed oil and filter on a zero turn with a 18hp Briggs & Stratton. I used 10w30.
Since then when I go down a steep hill it will blow a ton of white smoke, stutter, and sometimes die.

I thought I had overfilled the oil so I drained it until it was in the lower range of “safe”. No change.
Any ideas?

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#2

M

mechanic mark

Post model xxxxxx, type xxxx, trim xx, code xxxxxxxx numbers from engine.

Results

www.briggsandstratton.com www.briggsandstratton.com
See page 6 in Operators Manual above. You should be using Full Synthetic Oil, either 5w-30 or 10w-30, read Caution boxes.
I would adjust valves, specs. on page 5. Check air filter for replacement also.


#3

F

Fritzz

98D1F133-A180-4909-8B8A-D4ECAF21EAFC.jpeg

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#4

R

Rivets

With that tank/carb setup, the first thing I would check is debris in the tank.


#5

F

Fritzz

These are all the numbers I can find.

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#6

S

slomo

Head gasket? Brothers mower did the same thing. He has a Briggs 17.5hp Intek single cylinder engine. Inteks are known for head gasket issues. Yours looks like an Intek.

slomo


#7

Fish

Fish

Water/dirt in the carb and tank.


#8

S

slomo

Here's your engine manual and parts list.

Results | Briggs and Stratton Europe

www.briggsandstratton.com www.briggsandstratton.com

Slomo


#9

S

slomo

That is an Intek engine as suspected. I would order a couple head gaskets for that if I were you. Briggs part number 796584.


#10

S

slomo

Per your Briggs engine manual, use of normal 10w-30 oil is only good up to 40F. A full synthetic 10w-30 is fine per Briggs but they caution multi-grade oils will cause higher than normal oil consumption. Briggs and myself recommend plain old 30w oil especially in summer temperatures. A 10w-30 oil will shear down quickly in an air cooled engine like these. I would dump that 10w-30 and put 30w in if it were mine. Walmart sells a gallon of SuperTech 30w for $8.95. Can't go wrong with it. I've been using it for years with no issues. Actually it runs very clean too.

slomo


#11

S

slomo

With the engine running, open the oil dipstick and let it rest on the threads. See if the engine is trying to push it out of the dipstick tube. You will see the dipstick puffing up and down if the head gasket is blown.

Taryl has a good video on the Intek head gasket replacement.


slomo


#12

F

Fritzz

I spoke with the owner of this unit, my father in law. I was under the impression it was something I messed up with the oil change that caused this problem but he says it’s done this the last couple of years. This is the second engine the mower has had, he thinks he ran the first one out of oil and blew it.


#13

F

Fritzz

It’s spraying small droplets out the filler when I take the cap off. Also the cap isn’t staying on if I unscrew it and set it back in place. It either is getting bounced off by crankcase pressure or the vibration of the engine.
I can’t figure out how to attach the video.


#14

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

Upload to YouTube or vimeo, place the link here
Sounds like a lot of blow by the piston rings. Into the case


#15

S

slomo

Fritzz said:
It’s spraying small droplets out the filler when I take the cap off. Also the cap isn’t staying on if I unscrew it and set it back in place. It either is getting bounced off by crankcase pressure or the vibration of the engine.
I can’t figure out how to attach the video.
Click to expand...
Cha-ching, sounds like head gasket time. Put a paper towel or tissue over the oil fill tube. See if the engine is trying to blow it up out of the tube. You should feel it with your hand too. If it is blowing oil out as you said it's head gasket time.

Permatex makes a gasket prep spray. Here's a link to it. Get a new Briggs head gasket. Spray it down with this copper tack spray on both sides. Clean the snot out of the engine deck and cylinder head. Put the gasket on and TORQUE the head bolts to proper specs.

www.permatex.com

Permatex® Copper Spray-A-Gasket® Hi-Temp Sealant

Fast-drying, metallic copper sealant helps dissipate heat, prevents gasket burnout and improves heat transfer. Fills minor surface irregularities. Seals instantly. Fills hot spots and surface imperfections. Temperature range -50°F to 500°F (-45°C to 260°C); resists all types of automotive...
www.permatex.com www.permatex.com

slomo


#16

S

slomo

The above spray tack is a must do. Don't skip this step or you will be doing it all over again soon. Those Intek engines lack head bolts all the way around the perimeter of the cylinder bore. Reason for it blowing out like now. If you get it all CLEAN enough and torqued proper, should last a good while.

slomo


#17

S

slomo

Fritzz said:
I spoke with the owner of this unit, my father in law. I was under the impression it was something I messed up with the oil change that caused this problem but he says it’s done this the last couple of years. This is the second engine the mower has had, he thinks he ran the first one out of oil and blew it.
Click to expand...
Bet the first engine needed an 8 dollar head gasket too.

slomo


#18

F

Fritzz

Scrubcadet10 said:
Upload to YouTube or vimeo, place the link here
Sounds like a lot of blow by the piston rings. Into the case
Click to expand...


#19

F

Fritzz

Hard to tell in the video but a fair amount of oil was coming out. My phone I was taking the video with was starting to get covered even.


#20

S

slomo

Briggs part number 796584. Double check me on that part number please. Call Briggs to verify YOUR part number.

slomo


#21

F

Fritzz

Ok, so the the head gasket is bad. Why does the mower die when I go downhill?


#22

S

slomo

Fritzz said:
Ok, so the the head gasket is bad. Why does the mower die when I go downhill?
Click to expand...
The cylinder is getting overloaded with oil. Air fuel now air to oil ratio is not proper.

slomo


#23

M

mechanic mark

If your engine oil dipstick is staying above full mark, you have gasoline in oil. Time to remove carburetor & overhaul.
Walbro carburetor overhaul kit above
Nikki carburetor overhaul kit above.
Lastly, change oil & filter with Full Synthetic 5w-30 oil, 48 oz., I use plastic measuring cup.


#24

S

slomo

mechanic mark said:
If your engine oil dipstick is staying above full mark, you have gasoline in oil. Time to remove carburetor & overhaul.
Walbro carburetor overhaul kit above
Nikki carburetor overhaul kit above.
Lastly, change oil & filter with Full Synthetic 5w-30 oil, 48 oz., I use plastic measuring cup.
Click to expand...
MM has a point here. Could be fuel in the oil. Check the oil level as Mark said.

I'm still betting on the head gasket. When Fritzz removed the dipstick, he got a nice oil shower. Course could be a bunch of fuel too.

slomo


#25

F

Fritzz

I don’t have any sign of fuel in the oil. The reason I drained some oil out was that I had just done a oil change and then just noticed the smoking/stalling on downhill. I thought they were related. I thought the mower was overly sensitive to oil level so I drained a half quart out.
Afterwords I learned it had the problem before the oil change


#26

S

slomo

Fritzz said:
I don’t have any sign of fuel in the oil. The reason I drained some oil out was that I had just done a oil change and then just noticed the smoking/stalling on downhill. I thought they were related. I thought the mower was overly sensitive to oil level so I drained a half quart out.
Afterwords I learned it had the problem before the oil change
Click to expand...
Copy that, just make sure there is NO fuel smell in the dipstick tube. No fuel smell, I'm still banking on a head gasket.

slomo


#27

Fish

Fish

Fritzz said:
Why does the mower die when I go downhill
Click to expand...
Because you have a layer of water and crap in the bottom of your carb's bowl.


#28

S

slomo

Water and poo don't cause smoking down hill. Water would cause poor running if not no running at all.

slomo


#29

Fish

Fish

Not a head gasket.
Just loosen the bowl nut and drain the carb, and see what that does. It is easy and free.


#30

Fish

Fish

The water sits in the bottom of the carb bowl, and does not get sucked into the carb, but sudden turning, tilting, going down hill, hitting bumps, and the water sloshes up high enough to get sucked into the carb/engine. It is a good possibility,
and costs nothing to check, I am always one to check things out before spending other people's money on guesses.
If there is no water in the bowl, the only thing it will cost is a few minutes of your time, nothing else.
Look at what dribbles out, the water will bead up in the gas, or if you put it in a can, it will sit at the bottom.
That is why fuel driers have alcohol in them, it makes the water mix with the fuel better and burn through with time.


#31

F

Fritzz

I’m prettying sure it’s oil getting dumped/sucked into the combustion chamber somehow and stalling the engine. There’s an immediate running problem when I go down a steep ditch and thick blue smoke pours out the exhaust and lingers in the grass like still burning oil.
I’m just having a hard time getting my head wrapped around the idea of the head gasket being bad since it runs like a top normally. I used it to clean up some fairly off camber fence line Sunday and it never missed a beat. Wasn’t burning any oil.
I’ll take a look at the bowl first and see what it looks like but not holding out much hope for that.


#32

S

slomo

Fish said:
The water sits in the bottom of the carb bowl, and does not get sucked into the carb, but sudden turning, tilting, going down hill, hitting bumps, and the water sloshes up high enough to get sucked into the carb/engine. It is a good possibility,
and costs nothing to check, I am always one to check things out before spending other people's money on guesses.
If there is no water in the bowl, the only thing it will cost is a few minutes of your time, nothing else.
Look at what dribbles out, the water will bead up in the gas, or if you put it in a can, it will sit at the bottom.
That is why fuel driers have alcohol in them, it makes the water mix with the fuel better and burn through with time.
Click to expand...
Sounds good Fish as water being a possible issue. OP could be using E10 and have water in the bowl.

Blue smoke means oil. IF it is the head gasket, might just be a partial blow out. That could cause the oil to go where it doesn't belong under certain conditions. Again those Intek engines are famous for head gasket issues.


slomo


#33

Fish

Fish

To take a quick test/look at the head gasket, I remove the rocker arm cover, then start the engine, and if the head gasket is blown, you should be able to see it then. Do it outside as you will be throwing some oil.
Do not run it long, but just for a look.


#34

S

slomo

Fritzz, remove the head and post pictures of the head gasket here. Pictures when you remove the head then pics of the gasket removal.

slomo


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