TimeCutter SS5000 (74630) FR651V - WON'T RUN

[WVZR-1]

Mid-winter I purchased a Toro TimeCutter SS 5000 with a Kawasaki FR651V that was said to need an engine. I couldn't see where rocker covers, shroud or anything had been removed for diagnostics and I didn't see any leaks or holes in the engine. Engine oil dipstick showed full and it was missing spark plugs. I was told it had sat for months maybe closer to year. I expected it to need an engine so I posted here looking for maybe used etc.

Well it's home with me now, I installed battery and the engine spun but very slow. I expected a seized engine or major issue but priming with gas to the carb throat it actually fired and ran for maybe 20 seconds. I removed starter and lubed the drive, it will crank and run 20 - 45 seconds consistently using only the choke. I've checked compression (150 PSI both), removed fuel tank and drained for all new fuel, fuel solenoid acts as expected (key-on the pintle retracts), cleaned fuel bowl and checked fuel lines. I removed the fuel pump and put it on my Scag to check and I mowed for an hour so the pump is good.

I can't get it to run for more than 20 - 45 seconds. There's no KNOCKS for that short run. Is there any Kawasaki feature that could shut it down?

Is there any "feature" of the Toro that could create my issue? The Brake Control Module DC motor seems to operate as it should and rotates the brake arms. It won't crank with the steering in the park location or with the PTO engaged BUT it will crank with NO ONE in the seat.

The only Toro dealer that I'm aware of that's really customer conscious is maybe a 45 minute drive. I can't easily transport it and really don't want to.

I could use some HELP!!!

Comments?

 

[bertsmobile1]

Check the cut off solenoid in the carb.
Check the carb float bowl & float valve.

 

[7394]

My Toro FR651V engine will crank, start & run with no-one in the seat, but lap bars must be outward in park position.

IDK, maybe something with the seat cut off sensor ? Something weird there sounds like.

Another thought: If someone adjusted the valves TOO tight, it would run for short bit till some heat got in it. Great compression for Cold. Maybe test it immediately after it shuts off.

 

[WVZR-1]

I found a post on the WWW that mentioned a Brake Control Module by-pass that had been done to accomplish a "make run" for brake lock. I did that by-pass because it's interconnected to the lap-bar switches etc with no change to the run pattern, start - run - shut down in 20+ seconds.

I scratched my old bald head till it bled AND THEN redid everything I had already done, removed/cleaned PTO connector, ignition switch connector, engine connector, put the BCM back to how it was originally and it started. I was ready to maybe buy an engine harness next. It's run for 3 days and the reply notifications to this thread had landed in to my SPAM folder. I checked the post for replies this AM, saw 2 replies then checked the SPAM folder.

Thanks for the replies guys!!

I mowed with it for 2+ hours and it seems fine. I've not checked the valve lash yet but will likely do that this week before another attempt at "run and cut".

I've no idea what I've done but it does run. A shop had checked this and told the owner it needed engine. Does it? I've no idea! It has a different sound than I'm accustomed to with my Scag - my neighbor says it's a "psychological" thing now!

 

[BlazNT]

Old trick I have used for years is to take a wood rod and touch it to the engine then put other end to my ear. You can hear all sorts of things going on inside the engine. You will easily be able to tell if something is going wrong inside of the engine.

 

[7394]

Old trick I have used for years is to take a wood rod and touch it to the engine then put other end to my ear. You can hear all sorts of things going on inside the engine. You will easily be able to tell if something is going wrong inside of the engine.

Old school stethoscope, I have one, but besides wood, you can also use a length of pipe, or a long socket werech "extension" & listen.

After running, pull the dip stick immediately & look closely for any metallic particles in oil on the dip stick. You might be Ok. Hopefully so.

 

[WVZR-1]

Guys - I've an older inexpensive stethoscope that I've used for years and I didn't seem to find/hear anything that was particularly concerning. I had planned an oil/filter now that it's actually run for a couple of hours. I'll check what's drained and probably open the filter. If/when the rain stops I'll accomplish that, I had checked the oil HOT and I didn't see anything that concerned me. Oil was very clean and I suspected maybe a very recent change so another couple hour run first I doubted could hurt it.

 

[bertsmobile1]

When starting the engine is running on the primary circuit of the carb.
Almost as soon as it fires up it switches to the main jet.
If it starts but won't run usually the main jet or fuel passageways are blocked.
Engine diagnosis 101.
Get an inline spar tester ( the red neon tube one are best, or even a timing lamp ).
Get a can of starting fluid.
Remove air filter.
Install the spark tester then start .
When the engine starts to die, give it a quick short shot of starter fluid.
If you can keep it running in this fashion for a minute or so then you have a fuel problem.
If not check the spark tester.
If the engine continues to spark all the way till it almost stops, you have a fuel or timing problem.
If the sparks stop then the engine starts to die you have an ignition problem.

Do these then report back