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The John Deere Strike
#1
PTmowerMech
PTmowerMech
The John Deere Strike Shows the Tight Labor Market Is Ready to Pop
SHORTLY BEFORE MIDNIGHT on Wednesday, production workers at a John Deere facility in Waterloo, Iowa, started shutting down the plant, quenching the furnaces in the foundry. The plant was already mostly empty, with Deere telling overnight workers to stay home. Three days earlier, union members at United Auto Workers meetings in Iowa, Illinois, and Kansas had voted overwhelmingly to reject a proposed contract that gave subinflation raises and eliminated pensions for all new hires. The rejection came as a surprise to both the union leadership and the company; even some of the workers who had voted no and authorized a strike were surprised that it was actually happening. The 10,000 workers who walked off the job are striking Deere for the first time in 35 years. “Just confirmed Waterloo has their picket signs,” one worker said before the strike began. “Shit’s about to get real.”
SHORTLY BEFORE MIDNIGHT on Wednesday, production workers at a John Deere facility in Waterloo, Iowa, started shutting down the plant, quenching the furnaces in the foundry. The plant was already mostly empty, with Deere telling overnight workers to stay home. Three days earlier, union members at United Auto Workers meetings in Iowa, Illinois, and Kansas had voted overwhelmingly to reject a proposed contract that gave subinflation raises and eliminated pensions for all new hires. The rejection came as a surprise to both the union leadership and the company; even some of the workers who had voted no and authorized a strike were surprised that it was actually happening. The 10,000 workers who walked off the job are striking Deere for the first time in 35 years. “Just confirmed Waterloo has their picket signs,” one worker said before the strike began. “Shit’s about to get real.”
#2
StarTech
StarTech
I reckon that means I will be seeing more in the line of repairs here and the after market suppliers will see more in sales.
Repairs here on JD equipment has down as far parts purchases from JD Deere owned companies even though the actual repairs and parts sells are about the same if not up a little.
Local JD dealer purchases last three years
A&I ( JD owned company)
If you look at your JD dealer's lot you probably see the same as I do here where there is less half the new equipment that is normally there before the pandemic hit.
One side effect of the strike is that it going to make farmers to consider have other brands in their equipment mix as they depends of the OEMs supplying repair parts when needed. They simply cant have equipment down for months on end when crops are ready to harvested. Right now here they are harvesting corn and cotton with soybeans nearing harvest too.
Repairs here on JD equipment has down as far parts purchases from JD Deere owned companies even though the actual repairs and parts sells are about the same if not up a little.
Local JD dealer purchases last three years
A&I ( JD owned company)
If you look at your JD dealer's lot you probably see the same as I do here where there is less half the new equipment that is normally there before the pandemic hit.
One side effect of the strike is that it going to make farmers to consider have other brands in their equipment mix as they depends of the OEMs supplying repair parts when needed. They simply cant have equipment down for months on end when crops are ready to harvested. Right now here they are harvesting corn and cotton with soybeans nearing harvest too.
#3
bkeller500
bkeller500
It's unfortunate that JD and their employees are at this stage. I am all for a company to make reasonable profits and I certainly am all for employees to get paid properly for their efforts in making that company profitable. They need each other to survive yet at times like these the hate and nastiness comes out. I hope they can come to a rapid settlement. But on a bigger scale I ask is this a sigh of what is coming? Are companies and employees ( union or not) on a collision coarse due to covid slowdowns and the broken supply chain? This could be the beginning of a long list of interruptions of American manufacturers making good for the global market and not just for America. Rebuilding the American industrial structure is going to be painful. Bringing global independence will be the talking point for rebuilding our economy. Our Car dealerships are very short on inventory as well as our Ag dealers. Trucks are in short supply. Our entire economic system will be under constant stress for a few years.......not weeks or months. America is going to pay back for the benefits and sins of embracing China and Mexico so heavily.
#4
PTmowerMech
PTmowerMech
Corporate level's bottom line, to make money. In doing that, it's to reduce overhead as much as possible. This improves the reputation of the company to it's investors. It also makes for much larger bonuses. Business 101.
Blue collar level: To get as much of the companies profits in their pocket.
End result. If the overhead is too much in the USA, they move their manufacturing and assembly to Mexico or China.
Bottom line. Corporate execs don't care too much about the blue collar levels. Blue collar levels don't care much about the execs.
It's a dog eat dog world, And everyone is wearing milk bone underwear.
Blue collar level: To get as much of the companies profits in their pocket.
End result. If the overhead is too much in the USA, they move their manufacturing and assembly to Mexico or China.
Bottom line. Corporate execs don't care too much about the blue collar levels. Blue collar levels don't care much about the execs.
It's a dog eat dog world, And everyone is wearing milk bone underwear.
#5
bkeller500
bkeller500
nicely said........I have to ask though...........If you owned a company, what would you do? If you ever get an opportunity to build a company from scratch or to purchase a existing company, do so. It will give you a new perspective on company profitability, taxes and employee benefits.Corporate level's bottom line, to make money. In doing that, it's to reduce overhead as much as possible. This improves the reputation of the company to it's investors. It also makes for much larger bonuses. Business 101.
Blue collar level: To get as much of the companies profits in their pocket.
End result. If the overhead is too much in the USA, they move their manufacturing and assembly to Mexico or China.
Bottom line. Corporate execs don't care too much about the blue collar levels. Blue collar levels don't care much about the execs.
It's a dog eat dog world, And everyone is wearing milk bone underwear.
#6
PTmowerMech
I'm not really the greedy sort. And always been proud of myself when I gave people tips and extra money for doing a good job. But there are times when I do get a little greedy. As in when I'm in the process of buying something I really want.
So it's hard to say, honestly.
I'd like to think I'd pay my employee's enough so that we all could live comfortable and have a few nice things. I don't think I'd want to drive lambo's or living in a mansion.
Another thing to consider is that for some reason, when you're generous to some folks, they tend to expect it. And when it's doesn't rise to their expectations, they tend to talk about it, and get others wound up about higher expectations. This is what unions do.
PTmowerMech
nicely said........I have to ask though...........If you owned a company, what would you do? If you ever get an opportunity to build a company from scratch or to purchase a existing company, do so. It will give you a new perspective on company profitability, taxes and employee benefits.
I'm not really the greedy sort. And always been proud of myself when I gave people tips and extra money for doing a good job. But there are times when I do get a little greedy. As in when I'm in the process of buying something I really want.
So it's hard to say, honestly.
I'd like to think I'd pay my employee's enough so that we all could live comfortable and have a few nice things. I don't think I'd want to drive lambo's or living in a mansion.
Another thing to consider is that for some reason, when you're generous to some folks, they tend to expect it. And when it's doesn't rise to their expectations, they tend to talk about it, and get others wound up about higher expectations. This is what unions do.
#7
bkeller500
bkeller500
I have enjoyed both working for a company for 45 years and also joint ownership of my own company with my wife for 25 years. I saw the benefits and the issues from both sides. I had employee's and I was one at the same time. I learned (like you ) that there has to be a benefit for both sides and a willingness to work together to survive together. At times my employer was both stingy and frugal as well as generous and understanding. As an employer I tried to do the same. The issue gets complicated when you have some employees that do not have a full understanding of economics. For the most part I still do not think companies are out to screw their employees. No employer is trying to get work done for nothing. And I have seen where a employee wants to get paid for doing nothing. My very first employer during high school told me to learn some skills and make myself more valuable. If and when I feel I can advance and grow as a employee to go ahead and do so even if it means leaving the company. He encouraged me to grow as a person and as a employee, and if I need to leave, then leave on good terms and make room for the next guy.I'm not really the greedy sort. And always been proud of myself when I gave people tips and extra money for doing a good job. But there are times when I do get a little greedy. As in when I'm in the process of buying something I really want.
So it's hard to say, honestly.
I'd like to think I'd pay my employee's enough so that we all could live comfortable and have a few nice things. I don't think I'd want to drive lambo's or living in a mansion.
Another thing to consider is that for some reason, when you're generous to some folks, they tend to expect it. And when it's doesn't rise to their expectations, they tend to talk about it, and get others wound up about higher expectations. This is what unions do.
#8
StarTech
StarTech
You might leave on good terms with a 2-3 week notice of departure but the same employer might not give you a notice if you happen return to work for them. I had one that I gave 3 week notice to after working for him 8 years. I gone for 8 years and went back to work for him. First he acted like he never knew me and after three weeks of working under highly secretive service department work orders was abruptive laid off on payday as I received my paycheck. A very hateful way to do a good employee that just wanted to work locally again.
I did tell him that with his attitude that he probably be out of business within the year and he was.
I did tell him that with his attitude that he probably be out of business within the year and he was.
#9
bkeller500
bkeller500
Like they say " not all is fair in love and war". We humans can choose to be kind or cruel.........and it is a choice!I have enjoyed both working for a company for 45 years and also joint ownership of my own company with my wife for 25 years. I saw the benefits and the issues from both sides. I had employee's and I was one at the same time. I learned (like you ) that there has to be a benefit for both sides and a willingness to work together to survive together. At times my employer was both stingy and frugal as well as generous and understanding. As an employer I tried to do the same. The issue gets complicated when you have some employees that do not have a full understanding of economics. For the most part I still do not think companies are out to screw their employees. No employer is trying to get work done for nothing. And I have seen where a employee wants to get paid for doing nothing. My very first employer during high school told me to learn some skills and make myself more valuable. If and when I feel I can advance and grow as a employee to go ahead and do so even if it means leaving the company. He encouraged me to grow as a person and as a employee, and if I need to leave, then leave on good terms and make room for the next guy.
#10
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
I am amazed at just how badly US workers are paid & the conditions they work under
However nothing has really changed since the days of slavery except the "slaves get a little more money" but it is nearly always the least then can possibly be paid .
Then there is the imported UK class attitude of we the superiour managers vs them the inferiour workers.
If you did an MBA then they are not even workers, they are taught to think of the employees as just another "Variable production input " which of course make it easier to act in an inhumane way towards employees as they are not people any more.
The MBA's who end up running the company are brainwashed into the belief that "All Profits Originate in the Board Room " .
Thus again the workers are some sort of sub human autotrons .
We have exactly the same attitude down here
When I was in the metals industry I can not remember a single manager who did not blame "excessive labour rates" as the prime reason for lack of profits.
At a conference I once got brave enough to suggest that it could be lack of investment in more efficient equipment equipment that could increase the productivity per man hour that was the problem & I got booed & heckled by the other delegates.
I had just come back from Japan & found that the japanese workers were actually paid more than the Aussie workers but their outputs was between 5 to 100 times higher because there was no machine on the floor that was older than few years.
Down in OZ we were still using stuff imported second hand from the UK & USA during WW II in the days when machines were expensive & labour was cheap ( & disposable )
It was over a year before I was allowed to attend another conference , my applications would always be returned claiming that the conference was full .
There is a reason why Germany is the powerhouse of EU manufacturing , because they actually do value their employees & engage with them at all levels of management.
VW & BMW both have directors who come off the shop floor and are voted in by the shop floor .
The total contempt towards workers was blaitently displayed by B & S who shifted their manufacturing to NY purely because the labour rates are 3% to 11% lower in NY .
However nothing has really changed since the days of slavery except the "slaves get a little more money" but it is nearly always the least then can possibly be paid .
Then there is the imported UK class attitude of we the superiour managers vs them the inferiour workers.
If you did an MBA then they are not even workers, they are taught to think of the employees as just another "Variable production input " which of course make it easier to act in an inhumane way towards employees as they are not people any more.
The MBA's who end up running the company are brainwashed into the belief that "All Profits Originate in the Board Room " .
Thus again the workers are some sort of sub human autotrons .
We have exactly the same attitude down here
When I was in the metals industry I can not remember a single manager who did not blame "excessive labour rates" as the prime reason for lack of profits.
At a conference I once got brave enough to suggest that it could be lack of investment in more efficient equipment equipment that could increase the productivity per man hour that was the problem & I got booed & heckled by the other delegates.
I had just come back from Japan & found that the japanese workers were actually paid more than the Aussie workers but their outputs was between 5 to 100 times higher because there was no machine on the floor that was older than few years.
Down in OZ we were still using stuff imported second hand from the UK & USA during WW II in the days when machines were expensive & labour was cheap ( & disposable )
It was over a year before I was allowed to attend another conference , my applications would always be returned claiming that the conference was full .
There is a reason why Germany is the powerhouse of EU manufacturing , because they actually do value their employees & engage with them at all levels of management.
VW & BMW both have directors who come off the shop floor and are voted in by the shop floor .
The total contempt towards workers was blaitently displayed by B & S who shifted their manufacturing to NY purely because the labour rates are 3% to 11% lower in NY .
#11
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
rather work here than China
#12
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
I think you have the wrong Idea about Chinese workers.
You are thinking that they are working in third world sweat shops as found in democracies like Pakistan , India , The Phillipines or Indonesia .
Most Chinese factories apart from fashion , are large modern , clean & safe .
The workers are actually paid well by local standards actually better than USA production line workers .
Mine work is some what different but is becoming more fully automated on a daily basis .
The killer is the exchange rate is being manipulated by the government to keep the exchange rate very very low in order to send all factories in the west bankrupt so they will have to close down & sack the workers who then will need government support so cost the western governments lots of money ( even if for nothing other than prisions ) .
This is designed to cause as much social disruption in Western countries as possible and to divide the population into the haves & have nots so eventually countries like the USA are so divided they end up at civil war / revolution levels .
Why go to war with the USA when you can manipulate the USA's owns system to cause the USA to go to war against itself ?
You are thinking that they are working in third world sweat shops as found in democracies like Pakistan , India , The Phillipines or Indonesia .
Most Chinese factories apart from fashion , are large modern , clean & safe .
The workers are actually paid well by local standards actually better than USA production line workers .
Mine work is some what different but is becoming more fully automated on a daily basis .
The killer is the exchange rate is being manipulated by the government to keep the exchange rate very very low in order to send all factories in the west bankrupt so they will have to close down & sack the workers who then will need government support so cost the western governments lots of money ( even if for nothing other than prisions ) .
This is designed to cause as much social disruption in Western countries as possible and to divide the population into the haves & have nots so eventually countries like the USA are so divided they end up at civil war / revolution levels .
Why go to war with the USA when you can manipulate the USA's owns system to cause the USA to go to war against itself ?
#13
C
Clipcut
C
Clipcut
I think you have the wrong Idea about Chinese workers.
You are thinking that they are working in third world sweat shops as found in democracies like Pakistan , India , The Phillipines or Indonesia .
Most Chinese factories apart from fashion , are large modern , clean & safe .
The workers are actually paid well by local standards actually better than USA production line workers .
Mine work is some what different but is becoming more fully automated on a daily basis .
The killer is the exchange rate is being manipulated by the government to keep the exchange rate very very low in order to send all factories in the west bankrupt so they will have to close down & sack the workers who then will need government support so cost the western governments lots of money ( even if for nothing other than prisions ) .
This is designed to cause as much social disruption in Western countries as possible and to divide the population into the haves & have nots so eventually countries like the USA are so divided they end up at civil war / revolution levels .
Why go to war with the USA when you can manipulate the USA's owns system to cause the USA to go to war against itself ?
#14
bkeller500
bkeller500
I cannot speak to working conditions in China, but I can totally agree with you as far as the economic plans that China has implemented. For the past 20 years we have slowly suspended our manufacturing and handcuffed ourselves and moved dependance on China. Our skilled labor force has now aged out and there is very little new opportunity for our youth other than retail. Now that we are fighting among ourselves and stressing over our future, China is turning against us and is in more control than we will admit. I don't personally admire President Trump, but he was dead on in his warnings about the future of our country if we don't act fast.I think you have the wrong Idea about Chinese workers.
You are thinking that they are working in third world sweat shops as found in democracies like Pakistan , India , The Phillipines or Indonesia .
Most Chinese factories apart from fashion , are large modern , clean & safe .
The workers are actually paid well by local standards actually better than USA production line workers .
Mine work is some what different but is becoming more fully automated on a daily basis .
The killer is the exchange rate is being manipulated by the government to keep the exchange rate very very low in order to send all factories in the west bankrupt so they will have to close down & sack the workers who then will need government support so cost the western governments lots of money ( even if for nothing other than prisions ) .
This is designed to cause as much social disruption in Western countries as possible and to divide the population into the haves & have nots so eventually countries like the USA are so divided they end up at civil war / revolution levels .
Why go to war with the USA when you can manipulate the USA's owns system to cause the USA to go to war against itself ?
#15
PTmowerMech
If Trump was dead on, he'd have addressed the Fed's valuing of our USD. But he never even mentioned the way the Fed handles this. He, like all the others, just kick the can. Borrow and spend, then borrow more (from the Fed). Now $10hr is a poverty wage. In 5 to 10 years, $15hr will be a poverty age.
So as wages increase, profits will either go down, or companies will move more manufacturing and assembly out of the USA. I'm surprised the big US automakers aren't already assembling in Mexico, for US markets. $10 to $20 per DAY down there, versus that much per hour here. Makes for a good excuse for GM, Ford and Chrysler to become Mexican made automobiles. After all, a LOT of their parts are already made in Mexico.
But, if $10 still bought $10 worth of goods, companies wouldn't have to outsource.
Obviously the tariffs are pretty steep. Otherwise Japan wouldn't be assembling cars here in the US. Nor would MTD, John Deere or the rest of them.
PTmowerMech
I cannot speak to working conditions in China, but I can totally agree with you as far as the economic plans that China has implemented. For the past 20 years we have slowly suspended our manufacturing and handcuffed ourselves and moved dependance on China. Our skilled labor force has now aged out and there is very little new opportunity for our youth other than retail. Now that we are fighting among ourselves and stressing over our future, China is turning against us and is in more control than we will admit. I don't personally admire President Trump, but he was dead on in his warnings about the future of our country if we don't act fast.
If Trump was dead on, he'd have addressed the Fed's valuing of our USD. But he never even mentioned the way the Fed handles this. He, like all the others, just kick the can. Borrow and spend, then borrow more (from the Fed). Now $10hr is a poverty wage. In 5 to 10 years, $15hr will be a poverty age.
So as wages increase, profits will either go down, or companies will move more manufacturing and assembly out of the USA. I'm surprised the big US automakers aren't already assembling in Mexico, for US markets. $10 to $20 per DAY down there, versus that much per hour here. Makes for a good excuse for GM, Ford and Chrysler to become Mexican made automobiles. After all, a LOT of their parts are already made in Mexico.
But, if $10 still bought $10 worth of goods, companies wouldn't have to outsource.
Obviously the tariffs are pretty steep. Otherwise Japan wouldn't be assembling cars here in the US. Nor would MTD, John Deere or the rest of them.
#16
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
Seems our system of finances and providing, (Capitalism) tends to work better when you have honest people in charge of the government and other financial agencies.If Trump was dead on, he'd have addressed the Fed's valuing of our USD. But he never even mentioned the way the Fed handles this. He, like all the others, just kick the can. Borrow and spend, then borrow more (from the Fed). Now $10hr is a poverty wage. In 5 to 10 years, $15hr will be a poverty age.
So as wages increase, profits will either go down, or companies will move more manufacturing and assembly out of the USA. I'm surprised the big US automakers aren't already assembling in Mexico, for US markets. $10 to $20 per DAY down there, versus that much per hour here. Makes for a good excuse for GM, Ford and Chrysler to become Mexican made automobiles. After all, a LOT of their parts are already made in Mexico.
But, if $10 still bought $10 worth of goods, companies wouldn't have to outsource.
Obviously the tariffs are pretty steep. Otherwise Japan wouldn't be assembling cars here in the US. Nor would MTD, John Deere or the rest of them.
#17
StarTech
StarTech
One problem with the tariffs that were in acted during the Trump years. All the US companies raised their prices too right off that the bat which made the even heavily taxed imports look good. I seen that in my price files that I loaded into my accounting program at the time the tariffs were in acted.
I recently had to add 1.5% to my prices as my distributors started charging a convenience fee for using credit and debit cards when I pay for purchases just to cover the additional charges. Doesn't sounds like much until you start paying out $2000 - $3000 in base cost; that can be as much $45 extra per month. Multiple that by 12 then it becomes $540.
All this just means the enduser is the one that paying out the nose.
I recently had to add 1.5% to my prices as my distributors started charging a convenience fee for using credit and debit cards when I pay for purchases just to cover the additional charges. Doesn't sounds like much until you start paying out $2000 - $3000 in base cost; that can be as much $45 extra per month. Multiple that by 12 then it becomes $540.
All this just means the enduser is the one that paying out the nose.
Well you never going see that in our government as politicians are lawyers and doctors that charge ridiculous fees in private practice and they do the same in government as special interest groups line the politicians pockets to laws pass in their flavor.Seems our system of finances and providing, (Capitalism) tends to work better when you have honest people in charge of the government and other financial agencies.
#18
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Well no matter what , until you start taxing wealth itself, the person at the bottom always pays.
Once upon a time various death taxes were supposed to do this but the wealthy invented companies in order to pass their wealth on to their children without paying death duties.
And of course now days not only do we have cmpanies designed to avoid paying taxes but also all of the private trust accounts in off shore tax havens ( remember the paradise papers ) so people like Mr Trumph can hide billions thus pay no tax on the millions he makes annually .
The problem is the person at the bottom pays but the business in the middle keeps the money and passes the taxes on to the owners/shareholders rather than the government .
Add to that the idea of "taxation is thieft" seems so deeply intrenched in peoples minds I fear that it has become part of our DNA ( we are just as bad ).
On top of that, people have no idea of the real costs and just how much of their daily life is facilitated by stuff the government has done with their taxes
The road in front of the workshop is pathetic but it is a local council road and as it is a regional area there is one rate payer per pre 750 meters so to get the same money per km of road as the city next door , the local council would have to raise the rates 3 times what the metropolitan city next door charges . The cost of maintaining the 3 miles of road that passes the block is double what the landlord pays in rates .
People think that their income tax pays for everything they ever get from the government with money to spare . when in reality it would be lucky to cover 1/4 of the benefits they could get.
I always like some one having a bitch about the tax they pay when they have 4 kids at a private school costing them $15,000/year each in fees when there is a free public school within walking distance.
There was a public lecture broadcast a while back where the speaker proposed that the insurance hospitals & doctors pay accounts for nearly 70% of what they charged for their services.
In Australia it is 12% , in the UK it is 5% and France 3% so it is the ligitators, and in particular the litigation financers who are making a killing and for USA medical charges to become realistic then medical mal practice has to be removed from the courts & go to a panel of experienced medical practioners who can tell real medical problems from lawyers cleaver BS.
Once upon a time various death taxes were supposed to do this but the wealthy invented companies in order to pass their wealth on to their children without paying death duties.
And of course now days not only do we have cmpanies designed to avoid paying taxes but also all of the private trust accounts in off shore tax havens ( remember the paradise papers ) so people like Mr Trumph can hide billions thus pay no tax on the millions he makes annually .
The problem is the person at the bottom pays but the business in the middle keeps the money and passes the taxes on to the owners/shareholders rather than the government .
Add to that the idea of "taxation is thieft" seems so deeply intrenched in peoples minds I fear that it has become part of our DNA ( we are just as bad ).
On top of that, people have no idea of the real costs and just how much of their daily life is facilitated by stuff the government has done with their taxes
The road in front of the workshop is pathetic but it is a local council road and as it is a regional area there is one rate payer per pre 750 meters so to get the same money per km of road as the city next door , the local council would have to raise the rates 3 times what the metropolitan city next door charges . The cost of maintaining the 3 miles of road that passes the block is double what the landlord pays in rates .
People think that their income tax pays for everything they ever get from the government with money to spare . when in reality it would be lucky to cover 1/4 of the benefits they could get.
I always like some one having a bitch about the tax they pay when they have 4 kids at a private school costing them $15,000/year each in fees when there is a free public school within walking distance.
There was a public lecture broadcast a while back where the speaker proposed that the insurance hospitals & doctors pay accounts for nearly 70% of what they charged for their services.
In Australia it is 12% , in the UK it is 5% and France 3% so it is the ligitators, and in particular the litigation financers who are making a killing and for USA medical charges to become realistic then medical mal practice has to be removed from the courts & go to a panel of experienced medical practioners who can tell real medical problems from lawyers cleaver BS.
#19
R
RayMcD
R
RayMcD
I hope so since they can pay almost 50% in taxes, rI am amazed at just how badly US workers are paid & the conditions they work under
However nothing has really changed since the days of slavery except the "slaves get a little more money" but it is nearly always the least then can possibly be paid .
Then there is the imported UK class attitude of we the superiour managers vs them the inferiour workers.
If you did an MBA then they are not even workers, they are taught to think of the employees as just another "Variable production input " which of course make it easier to act in an inhumane way towards employees as they are not people any more.
The MBA's who end up running the company are brainwashed into the belief that "All Profits Originate in the Board Room " .
Thus again the workers are some sort of sub human autotrons .
We have exactly the same attitude down here
When I was in the metals industry I can not remember a single manager who did not blame "excessive labour rates" as the prime reason for lack of profits.
At a conference I once got brave enough to suggest that it could be lack of investment in more efficient equipment equipment that could increase the productivity per man hour that was the problem & I got booed & heckled by the other delegates.
I had just come back from Japan & found that the japanese workers were actually paid more than the Aussie workers but their outputs was between 5 to 100 times higher because there was no machine on the floor that was older than few years.
Down in OZ we were still using stuff imported second hand from the UK & USA during WW II in the days when machines were expensive & labour was cheap ( & disposable )
It was over a year before I was allowed to attend another conference , my applications would always be returned claiming that the conference was full .
There is a reason why Germany is the powerhouse of EU manufacturing , because they actually do value their employees & engage with them at all levels of management.
VW & BMW both have directors who come off the shop floor and are voted in by the shop floor .
The total contempt towards workers was blaitently displayed by B & S who shifted their manufacturing to NY purely because the labour rates are 3% to 11% lower in NY .
#20
PTmowerMech
And the people at the top, will just charge that much more in products or services to cover their loss. Those of us down here will still end up paying for it. It's the circle of life.
Good for them. Why in the HECK should anyone pay taxes on money they own, or pass down, just because they die.
Because the government says so? That's one messed up government.
When the government starts spending money wisely, efficiently and for ONLY good reason, then and only then should they be able to raise taxes.
They don't have an income problem. They have a spending problem
Note one of my biggest reasons for not supporting Trump. He spent too much money. And his tax cuts were laughable, at best.
PTmowerMech
Well no matter what , until you start taxing wealth itself, the person at the bottom always pays.
And the people at the top, will just charge that much more in products or services to cover their loss. Those of us down here will still end up paying for it. It's the circle of life.
Once upon a time various death taxes were supposed to do this but the wealthy invented companies in order to pass their wealth on to their children without paying death duties.
Good for them. Why in the HECK should anyone pay taxes on money they own, or pass down, just because they die.
Because the government says so? That's one messed up government.
And of course now days not only do we have cmpanies designed to avoid paying taxes but also all of the private trust accounts in off shore tax havens ( remember the paradise papers ) so people like Mr Trumph can hide billions thus pay no tax on the millions he makes annually .
The problem is the person at the bottom pays but the business in the middle keeps the money and passes the taxes on to the owners/shareholders rather than the government .
Add to that the idea of "taxation is thieft" seems so deeply intrenched in peoples minds I fear that it has become part of our DNA ( we are just as bad ).
On top of that, people have no idea of the real costs and just how much of their daily life is facilitated by stuff the government has done with their taxes
The road in front of the workshop is pathetic but it is a local council road and as it is a regional area there is one rate payer per pre 750 meters so to get the same money per km of road as the city next door , the local council would have to raise the rates 3 times what the metropolitan city next door charges . The cost of maintaining the 3 miles of road that passes the block is double what the landlord pays in rates .
People think that their income tax pays for everything they ever get from the government with money to spare . when in reality it would be lucky to cover 1/4 of the benefits they could get.
I always like some one having a bitch about the tax they pay when they have 4 kids at a private school costing them $15,000/year each in fees when there is a free public school within walking distance.
There was a public lecture broadcast a while back where the speaker proposed that the insurance hospitals & doctors pay accounts for nearly 70% of what they charged for their services.
In Australia it is 12% , in the UK it is 5% and France 3% so it is the ligitators, and in particular the litigation financers who are making a killing and for USA medical charges to become realistic then medical mal practice has to be removed from the courts & go to a panel of experienced medical practioners who can tell real medical problems from lawyers cleaver BS.
When the government starts spending money wisely, efficiently and for ONLY good reason, then and only then should they be able to raise taxes.
They don't have an income problem. They have a spending problem
Note one of my biggest reasons for not supporting Trump. He spent too much money. And his tax cuts were laughable, at best.
#21
B
bertsmobile1
Secondly no person ever became wealthy without some support of the government be it that they speak English and not Japanese or German , drive on roads , send things through the mail do not have to sit all night by their front door shotgun in hand , had a supply of water , under paid employees live is government housing etc etc etc.
Next it slows down the formation of unbelievably rich family cartels like the Coke family , or the Fords or the Rockerfellas etc etc.
Being born into a rich family does not mean you should be able to buy yourself political power
Aussies are always lambased for our stingyness towards charitable foundations compared to the USA or the UK and the reason is simple, you lot have an inheritance tax & we we don't have to make sure it is spent where we want it to go so the government does not spend it where we don't want it to go.
You lot got Foxtel because Murdoch inherited a newspaper empire from his father then built it up into the monster that it is today.
So repulsive is the empire that the kids are walking out rather than taking over .
So dad dies with $ 200,000,000,000,000,000, all that happens is the kids squabble over who gets the biggest slice till there is nothing left or they become tyrants.
And most become tyrants totally divorced from reality because they get richer by $ 1000/ minute just because of which family they were born into.
So you get the tobacco barons addicting everyone to nicotine despite the fact they know it will eventually kill their customers.
Ford executieve deciding to see cars that they know will explode & kill the occupants if rear ended because it will be cheaper tp pay the families of the victims out than do a recall.
The Coke bros turning coal burning into a left vs right political issue so they can continue to increase there wealth by $ 1,000,000 day.
The whole basis of capitalism is we all start off equal and the best rise to the top
Not that 5% start at the top & keep the rest at the bottom which is what is currently happening .
Naturalist would consider buying all unprofiable farms & returning them to forest wise spending for the future of the planet.
Homeless advocates would say affordable government owned rental properties are the most wise spending
Pacifists would disband the military and spend all of the saved money on charities to eliminate global poverty
Militarist would quadruple the military and make military service compulsory for every man woman & child ( if they had money buy a comisson for their kids )
Hunters would make more national parks and open all of them for hunting.
Astronomers would make all lights go out at 9 pm so they could get better visions of the starts
Heck Californians would ban petrol power for everything across the entire country
The NRA would make carrying a fire arm manditory for every one over 5 years old
Police would go for imprisionment without trial and revere the ownership of guilt so you would have to prove your innosence rather than they prove your guilt
Who decides ?????
The only country with a real democracy, where the population actually decides what becomes law & where government money is spent is Switzerland .
And the Swiss pay a 40% tax rate on the combination of their annual income + the value of their assets
B
bertsmobile1
Firstly because you can't spend it when you are goneGood for them. Why in the HECK should anyone pay taxes on money they own, or pass down, just because they die.
Because the government says so? That's one messed up government.
Secondly no person ever became wealthy without some support of the government be it that they speak English and not Japanese or German , drive on roads , send things through the mail do not have to sit all night by their front door shotgun in hand , had a supply of water , under paid employees live is government housing etc etc etc.
Next it slows down the formation of unbelievably rich family cartels like the Coke family , or the Fords or the Rockerfellas etc etc.
Being born into a rich family does not mean you should be able to buy yourself political power
Aussies are always lambased for our stingyness towards charitable foundations compared to the USA or the UK and the reason is simple, you lot have an inheritance tax & we we don't have to make sure it is spent where we want it to go so the government does not spend it where we don't want it to go.
You lot got Foxtel because Murdoch inherited a newspaper empire from his father then built it up into the monster that it is today.
So repulsive is the empire that the kids are walking out rather than taking over .
So dad dies with $ 200,000,000,000,000,000, all that happens is the kids squabble over who gets the biggest slice till there is nothing left or they become tyrants.
And most become tyrants totally divorced from reality because they get richer by $ 1000/ minute just because of which family they were born into.
So you get the tobacco barons addicting everyone to nicotine despite the fact they know it will eventually kill their customers.
Ford executieve deciding to see cars that they know will explode & kill the occupants if rear ended because it will be cheaper tp pay the families of the victims out than do a recall.
The Coke bros turning coal burning into a left vs right political issue so they can continue to increase there wealth by $ 1,000,000 day.
The whole basis of capitalism is we all start off equal and the best rise to the top
Not that 5% start at the top & keep the rest at the bottom which is what is currently happening .
And who decides what is wise spending ?When the government starts spending money wisely, efficiently and for ONLY good reason, then and only then should they be able to raise taxes.
They don't have an income problem. They have a spending problem
Naturalist would consider buying all unprofiable farms & returning them to forest wise spending for the future of the planet.
Homeless advocates would say affordable government owned rental properties are the most wise spending
Pacifists would disband the military and spend all of the saved money on charities to eliminate global poverty
Militarist would quadruple the military and make military service compulsory for every man woman & child ( if they had money buy a comisson for their kids )
Hunters would make more national parks and open all of them for hunting.
Astronomers would make all lights go out at 9 pm so they could get better visions of the starts
Heck Californians would ban petrol power for everything across the entire country
The NRA would make carrying a fire arm manditory for every one over 5 years old
Police would go for imprisionment without trial and revere the ownership of guilt so you would have to prove your innosence rather than they prove your guilt
Who decides ?????
The only country with a real democracy, where the population actually decides what becomes law & where government money is spent is Switzerland .
And the Swiss pay a 40% tax rate on the combination of their annual income + the value of their assets
#22
PTmowerMech
All those things get paid for as we go. Through the even more ridiculous income tax (taxing because you work). Every time you buy gas to drive on those roads or mail a letter or pour a glass of water from the tap, you pay for it.
On that we can agree. But that's the fault of the politicians greed more than the rich folks.
In Trumps first spending bill, ($1.4 Trillion) there was millions allotted for "Gender studies in Pakistan, Planned Parenthood and a border fence in some middle eastern country." The vast majority of us Americans would not agree for our tax dollars to go to such things. In fact, if "We the people" knew half of the BS they spent money on, there would probably be a real insurrection. A much needed one.
It's still a free country. And most kids don't follow in their parents footsteps. I made a good living driving a semi. Took my kids with me from border to border & coast to coast. Taught them, when they were teenagers how to drive a semi truck pulling a 53" trailer. Showed them how easy it was to make $1000 to $2000 per week. (And double or triple that when I bought my own). But when they got older, they didn't want any part of it.
A lot of dads go through that. Rich kids are no different.
So taxing them more is going to end that? Not in the least. This countries taxes used to be super-duper high. And that sort of thing went on. THE only thing wrong with being rich, is in the mind of the poor.
At least for some folks. I'm poor, by national standards. But I don't envy the rich.
The Koch brothers employ a lot of Americans. And not at slave wages.
Everyone has the opportunity to become successful in a capitalist society. There's a TON of rags to riches stories here in the USA. It just takes talent, ambition and sometimes a lot of luck.
Apparently none of them. Because all of them combined don't have enough say so to force their will on the rest of us. One thing we all can brag about is having enough freedom to not have to endure being forced into more than we can agree on. Except when it comes to taxes. If they raise our taxes, hopefully, "we the people" would have enough say so to vote in others who will reduce the taxes. Because taxes are a ponzi scheme that enslaves everyone who plays by the governments book.
Bezos paid only $1 billion in taxes. That's how much money he paid the government. Not total, for all the years he's owned Amazon. But like 1 to a few years.
I think you have personal income tax (of the rich) confused with corporate taxes. Corporations, like everyone else should, take every deduction that's legally afforded to them to keep their money in their company. As it should be.
Good for them. The USA is not supposed to be a democracy. It's supposed to be a republic. Big difference. Especially when you considering the population of Switzerland is about that of just one US state, New Jersey.
PTmowerMech
Firstly because you can't spend it when you are gone
Secondly no person ever became wealthy without some support of the government be it that they speak English and not Japanese or German , drive on roads , send things through the mail do not have to sit all night by their front door shotgun in hand , had a supply of water , under paid employees live is government housing etc etc etc.
All those things get paid for as we go. Through the even more ridiculous income tax (taxing because you work). Every time you buy gas to drive on those roads or mail a letter or pour a glass of water from the tap, you pay for it.
Next it slows down the formation of unbelievably rich family cartels like the Coke family , or the Fords or the Rockerfellas etc etc.
Being born into a rich family does not mean you should be able to buy yourself political power
On that we can agree. But that's the fault of the politicians greed more than the rich folks.
Aussies are always lambased for our stingyness towards charitable foundations compared to the USA or the UK and the reason is simple, you lot have an inheritance tax & we we don't have to make sure it is spent where we want it to go so the government does not spend it where we don't want it to go.
In Trumps first spending bill, ($1.4 Trillion) there was millions allotted for "Gender studies in Pakistan, Planned Parenthood and a border fence in some middle eastern country." The vast majority of us Americans would not agree for our tax dollars to go to such things. In fact, if "We the people" knew half of the BS they spent money on, there would probably be a real insurrection. A much needed one.
You lot got Foxtel because Murdoch inherited a newspaper empire from his father then built it up into the monster that it is today.
So repulsive is the empire that the kids are walking out rather than taking over .
It's still a free country. And most kids don't follow in their parents footsteps. I made a good living driving a semi. Took my kids with me from border to border & coast to coast. Taught them, when they were teenagers how to drive a semi truck pulling a 53" trailer. Showed them how easy it was to make $1000 to $2000 per week. (And double or triple that when I bought my own). But when they got older, they didn't want any part of it.
A lot of dads go through that. Rich kids are no different.
So dad dies with $ 200,000,000,000,000,000, all that happens is the kids squabble over who gets the biggest slice till there is nothing left or they become tyrants.
And most become tyrants totally divorced from reality because they get richer by $ 1000/ minute just because of which family they were born into.
So you get the tobacco barons addicting everyone to nicotine despite the fact they know it will eventually kill their customers.
Ford executieve deciding to see cars that they know will explode & kill the occupants if rear ended because it will be cheaper tp pay the families of the victims out than do a recall.
The Coke bros turning coal burning into a left vs right political issue so they can continue to increase there wealth by $ 1,000,000 day.
So taxing them more is going to end that? Not in the least. This countries taxes used to be super-duper high. And that sort of thing went on. THE only thing wrong with being rich, is in the mind of the poor.
At least for some folks. I'm poor, by national standards. But I don't envy the rich.
The Koch brothers employ a lot of Americans. And not at slave wages.
The whole basis of capitalism is we all start off equal and the best rise to the top
Not that 5% start at the top & keep the rest at the bottom which is what is currently happening
Everyone has the opportunity to become successful in a capitalist society. There's a TON of rags to riches stories here in the USA. It just takes talent, ambition and sometimes a lot of luck.
.
And who decides what is wise spending ?
Naturalist would consider buying all unprofiable farms & returning them to forest wise spending for the future of the planet.
Homeless advocates would say affordable government owned rental properties are the most wise spending
Pacifists would disband the military and spend all of the saved money on charities to eliminate global poverty
Militarist would quadruple the military and make military service compulsory for every man woman & child ( if they had money buy a comisson for their kids )
Hunters would make more national parks and open all of them for hunting.
Astronomers would make all lights go out at 9 pm so they could get better visions of the starts
Heck Californians would ban petrol power for everything across the entire country
The NRA would make carrying a fire arm manditory for every one over 5 years old
Police would go for imprisionment without trial and revere the ownership of guilt so you would have to prove your innosence rather than they prove your guilt
Who decides ?????
Apparently none of them. Because all of them combined don't have enough say so to force their will on the rest of us. One thing we all can brag about is having enough freedom to not have to endure being forced into more than we can agree on. Except when it comes to taxes. If they raise our taxes, hopefully, "we the people" would have enough say so to vote in others who will reduce the taxes. Because taxes are a ponzi scheme that enslaves everyone who plays by the governments book.
Bezos paid only $1 billion in taxes. That's how much money he paid the government. Not total, for all the years he's owned Amazon. But like 1 to a few years.
I think you have personal income tax (of the rich) confused with corporate taxes. Corporations, like everyone else should, take every deduction that's legally afforded to them to keep their money in their company. As it should be.
The only country with a real democracy, where the population actually decides what becomes law & where government money is spent is Switzerland .
And the Swiss pay a 40% tax rate on the combination of their annual income + the value of their assets
Good for them. The USA is not supposed to be a democracy. It's supposed to be a republic. Big difference. Especially when you considering the population of Switzerland is about that of just one US state, New Jersey.
#23
bkeller500
bkeller500
some really great comments here shared by you guys...It's great that we live in a country where we can exchange thoughts ( right or wrong) and discuss them. We all can only reflect on what we have learned in life, and if you never listen to another mans view you limit your knowledge. The circle of economics .....build, distribute, sell, tax, purchase, ...build.... must continue for us to all prosper and move forward. If we could eliminate the greed, corruption, theft and lies from our elected representatives, we all would be doing better. Thats the most frustrating part of our system. We are so diverse that we are never all going to agree on everything. We all have special interest or needs but too often we look for our government to fix them. Left on your own you can make decisions and wise choices as long as we have those choices. Our current government is on a fast track to take more of those choices away.
#24
StarTech
StarTech
Some of those so-called tax cuts weren't even tax cuts. Just delayed taxation which actually made it on those that owed them.
In my lifetime our government only been in the black under one president and that was Jimmy Carter but as soon the next one got in we were back in the red ink again.
And that so called stimulus money they supposedly sent I have yet to see a single penny of it. And there is no way to contact them as all they got on the phone system is a computer that gives you no usable information and the local offices are closed. To me that is/was a $3200 big lie just get me to borrow and spend the money. At least after the first $1800 I wasn't stupid enough to borrow another $1400 for the business while I awaited the payments. Just now paid off the first loan.
In my lifetime our government only been in the black under one president and that was Jimmy Carter but as soon the next one got in we were back in the red ink again.
And that so called stimulus money they supposedly sent I have yet to see a single penny of it. And there is no way to contact them as all they got on the phone system is a computer that gives you no usable information and the local offices are closed. To me that is/was a $3200 big lie just get me to borrow and spend the money. At least after the first $1800 I wasn't stupid enough to borrow another $1400 for the business while I awaited the payments. Just now paid off the first loan.
#25
PTmowerMech
When I was trucking, two drivers were on the CB arguing about something (probably politics).. Another driver came on and said "You can't get two truck drivers to agree on anything."
I keyed up the mic and said "I disagree." HA HA HA HA HA
To get rid of greed corruption, theft, and lies from out politicians, we only need to get rid of GIC (Government issued currency). No money or bartering. Just do as we've always done, work.
Or get rid of humans. Unlikely, in both cases. So it is what it is what it is.
Apparently we're all doing so well, even the poor folks, that us Americans have time to dig into everyone elses business. As in finding out how much money Bezos paid in taxes to how much our neighbor paid for his new ztr. (without the neighbor knowing)
PTmowerMech
some really great comments here shared by you guys...It's great that we live in a country where we can exchange thoughts ( right or wrong) and discuss them. We all can only reflect on what we have learned in life, and if you never listen to another mans view you limit your knowledge. The circle of economics .....build, distribute, sell, tax, purchase, ...build.... must continue for us to all prosper and move forward. If we could eliminate the greed, corruption, theft and lies from our elected representatives, we all would be doing better. Thats the most frustrating part of our system. We are so diverse that we are never all going to agree on everything. We all have special interest or needs but too often we look for our government to fix them. Left on your own you can make decisions and wise choices as long as we have those choices. Our current government is on a fast track to take more of those choices away.
When I was trucking, two drivers were on the CB arguing about something (probably politics).. Another driver came on and said "You can't get two truck drivers to agree on anything."
I keyed up the mic and said "I disagree." HA HA HA HA HA
To get rid of greed corruption, theft, and lies from out politicians, we only need to get rid of GIC (Government issued currency). No money or bartering. Just do as we've always done, work.
Or get rid of humans. Unlikely, in both cases. So it is what it is what it is.
Apparently we're all doing so well, even the poor folks, that us Americans have time to dig into everyone elses business. As in finding out how much money Bezos paid in taxes to how much our neighbor paid for his new ztr. (without the neighbor knowing)
#26
PTmowerMech
Yeah, I'm still wondering how Reagan got deemed "The great conservative." Now a days, republicans are still considered "conservative," just by being in the republican party. And trying to explain that to a die hard Trump supporter is impossible. They think Trump is a conservative.
I think "conservative" is more of a name now a days, than an ideology.
PTmowerMech
Some of those so-called tax cuts weren't even tax cuts. Just delayed taxation which actually made it on those that owed them.
In my lifetime our government only been in the black under one president and that was Jimmy Carter but as soon the next one got in we were back in the red ink again.
And that so called stimulus money they supposedly sent I have yet to see a single penny of it. And there is no way to contact them as all they got on the phone system is a computer that gives you no usable information and the local offices are closed. To me that is/was a $3200 big lie just get me to borrow and spend the money. At least after the first $1800 I wasn't stupid enough to borrow another $1400 for the business while I awaited the payments. Just now paid off the first loan.
Yeah, I'm still wondering how Reagan got deemed "The great conservative." Now a days, republicans are still considered "conservative," just by being in the republican party. And trying to explain that to a die hard Trump supporter is impossible. They think Trump is a conservative.
I think "conservative" is more of a name now a days, than an ideology.
#27
bkeller500
bkeller500
When has a politician ( from either side) actually managed to cut taxes as promised during the campaign? A rookie or freshman elective quickly gets caught up in the system and either joins in on the buddy system or gets cut out and gets nothing accomplished. We keep trying to clear the swamp, but it will never happen. The political system is flawed because of political contributions and lobbyist. Pay to play, special interest, and special perks for the elite and more taxes for the rest of us.
#28
PTmowerMech
I watched a doc a couple of years ago (that I can't find on YouTube anymore, just clips). Thomas Massie explains how if you want to be on certain committee's (or all), you have to pay for it. Of course it costs a year salary or more. But if you're good to lobbyist, they'll gladly fork over the money for you to be on that seat.
PTmowerMech
When has a politician ( from either side) actually managed to cut taxes as promised during the campaign? A rookie or freshman elective quickly gets caught up in the system and either joins in on the buddy system or gets cut out and gets nothing accomplished. We keep trying to clear the swamp, but it will never happen. The political system is flawed because of political contributions and lobbyist. Pay to play, special interest, and special perks for the elite and more taxes for the rest of us.
I watched a doc a couple of years ago (that I can't find on YouTube anymore, just clips). Thomas Massie explains how if you want to be on certain committee's (or all), you have to pay for it. Of course it costs a year salary or more. But if you're good to lobbyist, they'll gladly fork over the money for you to be on that seat.
#29
StarTech
StarTech
Personally I think they ought to manage the government like we have to and cut out all the pork barrelling that goes on. Any way we break the cookie we the tax payer is the one that have to foot the bill sooner or later.
Now back to this going on strike thing. It must be nice to do it but as me I got bill collectors that simply would not wait until I got back to getting a steady pay check. I once knew a loan officer that said that he always tries to find a way not to loan factory workers money as they go their paychecks like a hot knife through butter. Otherwords they just waste it because they know there will be another paycheck the following pay period.
Now back to this going on strike thing. It must be nice to do it but as me I got bill collectors that simply would not wait until I got back to getting a steady pay check. I once knew a loan officer that said that he always tries to find a way not to loan factory workers money as they go their paychecks like a hot knife through butter. Otherwords they just waste it because they know there will be another paycheck the following pay period.
#30
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
The thing you are overlooking PT is YOUR taxes never amounted to enough to pay for anything that you used each & every day to make your living
The roads you drove on and the police who patrolled them, let alone any of the other benefits you have enjoyed from the privledge of being born within the confines of the USA .
If you check the full US budget and troll the numbers personel income tax is about 1/8 of the money spent.
The rest comes from company taxes , royalties. fines borrowings
Now if the borrowings are from the reserve bank then they are BS as they are just numbers generated on a computer then shuffled back & forth to become real money in the form of pay checks . Borrowings in the form of bonds that are purchased by outsiders are real and will have to be paid back in some format some time.
Right now China has 1/2 of all of the USA government debt and if they called that debt in the the dollar would drop 60% and everything you consume that was not 100% US made would go up 2 to 3 times it's price and the country would slide into a third world inflation spiral . Keep that in the back of your head when the headlines are full of "defiant US ships / aircraft pass through China's proclaimed territory" , stories to keep the flag waving fools amused .
IF you really had to pay for everything without any governemnt assistance then your life ( and mine ) would be vastly different .
Right now they are proposing a mileage tax to replace fuel excise to cover the cost of road construction & repair .
To the people who work in an office that is walking distance from home it is very fair, to you the truck driver, even 1¢/mile would be crippeling particularly when Walmart. Amazon. Lowes Etc etc etc would tellyou that they were not going to pay & you will have to adsorb the extra cost .
As for rags to riches stories, look really close at them
In most cases there was a "mentor" behind the person and the "mentor" usually pocketed a goodly sized lump of the riches .
The whole idea that what you are overcomes who you are iis total BS that gets hyped up in the media in order to sublimate the opressed masses who get nowhere because they were born into poverty .
I took a business from 0 using nothing but my $ 400 credit limit bank card to a $ 5,000,000 /pa business but even at our height I could not get a $ 1,000 loan .
Prior to that I worked as a Lisenced Commercial Agent , commonly called a Process Server delivering Warrants Summons & Sepenas .
I saw the vast amounts of money banks & finance companies threw at the children, cousins, nieces & nephews of A list families to fund schemes that were obviously a fraud from day one.
But because of who they were related to the banks ended up taking 0,01¢ in the dollar for multi million dollar frauds and not even a whisper in the media about it .
The roads you drove on and the police who patrolled them, let alone any of the other benefits you have enjoyed from the privledge of being born within the confines of the USA .
If you check the full US budget and troll the numbers personel income tax is about 1/8 of the money spent.
The rest comes from company taxes , royalties. fines borrowings
Now if the borrowings are from the reserve bank then they are BS as they are just numbers generated on a computer then shuffled back & forth to become real money in the form of pay checks . Borrowings in the form of bonds that are purchased by outsiders are real and will have to be paid back in some format some time.
Right now China has 1/2 of all of the USA government debt and if they called that debt in the the dollar would drop 60% and everything you consume that was not 100% US made would go up 2 to 3 times it's price and the country would slide into a third world inflation spiral . Keep that in the back of your head when the headlines are full of "defiant US ships / aircraft pass through China's proclaimed territory" , stories to keep the flag waving fools amused .
IF you really had to pay for everything without any governemnt assistance then your life ( and mine ) would be vastly different .
Right now they are proposing a mileage tax to replace fuel excise to cover the cost of road construction & repair .
To the people who work in an office that is walking distance from home it is very fair, to you the truck driver, even 1¢/mile would be crippeling particularly when Walmart. Amazon. Lowes Etc etc etc would tellyou that they were not going to pay & you will have to adsorb the extra cost .
As for rags to riches stories, look really close at them
In most cases there was a "mentor" behind the person and the "mentor" usually pocketed a goodly sized lump of the riches .
The whole idea that what you are overcomes who you are iis total BS that gets hyped up in the media in order to sublimate the opressed masses who get nowhere because they were born into poverty .
I took a business from 0 using nothing but my $ 400 credit limit bank card to a $ 5,000,000 /pa business but even at our height I could not get a $ 1,000 loan .
Prior to that I worked as a Lisenced Commercial Agent , commonly called a Process Server delivering Warrants Summons & Sepenas .
I saw the vast amounts of money banks & finance companies threw at the children, cousins, nieces & nephews of A list families to fund schemes that were obviously a fraud from day one.
But because of who they were related to the banks ended up taking 0,01¢ in the dollar for multi million dollar frauds and not even a whisper in the media about it .
#31
PTmowerMech
Let me just put it this way. If OUR government were to raise taxes on everything, if They could even double the taxes, THE ONLY thing that would happen would be the prices for everything would go up. AND the government would just spend the money on more BS stuff like gender studies in Pakistan.
With the increases in taxes, they could pay for gender studies in Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran. They could build walls and fences for all the middle eastern countries, instead of just the one (so far)
The morons in DC buy $150 hammers, instead of $20 ones.
They've got this stupid infrastructure bill they're trying to pass that's got more pork than the US and China combined. If they were to take a drive somewhere, in ANY direction, they couldn't go 20 miles without running into road construction. Which means, our infrastructure isn't falling apart like they claim. They're just making up a reason to spend more money on BS stuff.
About the Fed:
The government knows it can't pay the fed back. The Fed knows the government can't pay them back. So why do they keep loaning them money? Because if they didn't, the government would do the constitutional thing and start creating it's own money. And the government would find some way to shut the fed down, so that their currency is no longer worth anything. Sort of like a confederate dollar. (which would actually be worth more)
So, if you have a debt that you don't actually have to pay back, then is it a debt at all? Of course it's not. And if it's not really a debt, if the Fed can just create money out of thin air (punching digits on a computer), then how much is it worth?
Answer: Like everything else, it's worth what they say it's worth and/or what people will give you or do for it. That's it. A reputation. (backed by a military that could destroy the entire world, 10 X over.
The USD is the world standard, since almost all oil is traded in USD. So we have the world by the balls, as long as the Fed and the government doesn't do anything stupid.
If the US economy crashes, so does most of the world.
PTmowerMech
The thing you are overlooking PT is YOUR taxes never amounted to enough to pay for anything that you used each & every day to make your living
The roads you drove on and the police who patrolled them, let alone any of the other benefits you have enjoyed from the privledge of being born within the confines of the USA .
If you check the full US budget and troll the numbers personel income tax is about 1/8 of the money spent.
The rest comes from company taxes , royalties. fines borrowings
Now if the borrowings are from the reserve bank then they are BS as they are just numbers generated on a computer then shuffled back & forth to become real money in the form of pay checks . Borrowings in the form of bonds that are purchased by outsiders are real and will have to be paid back in some format some time.
Right now China has 1/2 of all of the USA government debt and if they called that debt in the the dollar would drop 60% and everything you consume that was not 100% US made would go up 2 to 3 times it's price and the country would slide into a third world inflation spiral . Keep that in the back of your head when the headlines are full of "defiant US ships / aircraft pass through China's proclaimed territory" , stories to keep the flag waving fools amused .
IF you really had to pay for everything without any governemnt assistance then your life ( and mine ) would be vastly different .
Right now they are proposing a mileage tax to replace fuel excise to cover the cost of road construction & repair .
To the people who work in an office that is walking distance from home it is very fair, to you the truck driver, even 1¢/mile would be crippeling particularly when Walmart. Amazon. Lowes Etc etc etc would tellyou that they were not going to pay & you will have to adsorb the extra cost .
As for rags to riches stories, look really close at them
In most cases there was a "mentor" behind the person and the "mentor" usually pocketed a goodly sized lump of the riches .
The whole idea that what you are overcomes who you are iis total BS that gets hyped up in the media in order to sublimate the opressed masses who get nowhere because they were born into poverty .
I took a business from 0 using nothing but my $ 400 credit limit bank card to a $ 5,000,000 /pa business but even at our height I could not get a $ 1,000 loan .
Prior to that I worked as a Lisenced Commercial Agent , commonly called a Process Server delivering Warrants Summons & Sepenas .
I saw the vast amounts of money banks & finance companies threw at the children, cousins, nieces & nephews of A list families to fund schemes that were obviously a fraud from day one.
But because of who they were related to the banks ended up taking 0,01¢ in the dollar for multi million dollar frauds and not even a whisper in the media about it .
Let me just put it this way. If OUR government were to raise taxes on everything, if They could even double the taxes, THE ONLY thing that would happen would be the prices for everything would go up. AND the government would just spend the money on more BS stuff like gender studies in Pakistan.
With the increases in taxes, they could pay for gender studies in Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran. They could build walls and fences for all the middle eastern countries, instead of just the one (so far)
The morons in DC buy $150 hammers, instead of $20 ones.
They've got this stupid infrastructure bill they're trying to pass that's got more pork than the US and China combined. If they were to take a drive somewhere, in ANY direction, they couldn't go 20 miles without running into road construction. Which means, our infrastructure isn't falling apart like they claim. They're just making up a reason to spend more money on BS stuff.
About the Fed:
The government knows it can't pay the fed back. The Fed knows the government can't pay them back. So why do they keep loaning them money? Because if they didn't, the government would do the constitutional thing and start creating it's own money. And the government would find some way to shut the fed down, so that their currency is no longer worth anything. Sort of like a confederate dollar. (which would actually be worth more)
So, if you have a debt that you don't actually have to pay back, then is it a debt at all? Of course it's not. And if it's not really a debt, if the Fed can just create money out of thin air (punching digits on a computer), then how much is it worth?
Answer: Like everything else, it's worth what they say it's worth and/or what people will give you or do for it. That's it. A reputation. (backed by a military that could destroy the entire world, 10 X over.
The USD is the world standard, since almost all oil is traded in USD. So we have the world by the balls, as long as the Fed and the government doesn't do anything stupid.
If the US economy crashes, so does most of the world.
#32
StarTech
StarTech
When did get those hammers so cheap I heard it was $500 per hammer.
Now they wouldn't pull a Donald Trump on us would they?So, if you have a debt that you don't actually have to pay back, then is it a debt at all? Of course it's not. And if it's not really a debt, if the Fed can just create money out of thin air (punching digits on a computer), then how much is it worth?
#33
PTmowerMech
There ain't no telling what they actually do. TBH, the White House may make their people buy their own hammers, but still write off $500 hammers.
PTmowerMech
When did get those hammers so cheap I heard it was $500 per hammer.
Now they wouldn't pull a Donald Trump on us would they?
There ain't no telling what they actually do. TBH, the White House may make their people buy their own hammers, but still write off $500 hammers.
#34
D
DK35vince
D
DK35vince
Off the top of my head
Every paycheck I pay
Federal income tax
State income tax
Social security tax
Medicare tax
Local income tax
Plus
6% sales tax on every purchase
80 cents tax on every gallon of gas or diesel for road maintenance (+ many roads in the area are toll roads on top of the gas tax)
$2800 per year property tax.
Right to work tax
Yearly car registration on each vehicle
Yearly car inspection each vehicle (state currently gets $9 per inspection sticker)
And I'm sure there are many more.
But according to 1 here I'm not doing my fair share and they should also get everything I spent my whole life working for and saving for when I die instead of my kids ??
Why so they can just waist more than they already do !!
What an idiot
Every paycheck I pay
Federal income tax
State income tax
Social security tax
Medicare tax
Local income tax
Plus
6% sales tax on every purchase
80 cents tax on every gallon of gas or diesel for road maintenance (+ many roads in the area are toll roads on top of the gas tax)
$2800 per year property tax.
Right to work tax
Yearly car registration on each vehicle
Yearly car inspection each vehicle (state currently gets $9 per inspection sticker)
And I'm sure there are many more.
But according to 1 here I'm not doing my fair share and they should also get everything I spent my whole life working for and saving for when I die instead of my kids ??
Why so they can just waist more than they already do !!
What an idiot
#35
PTmowerMech
You get a hunting license? That's a tax. Get a fishing license? That's a tax. Get a business license, Marriage license, drivers license... All going to a government. Tax. In Texas, there's the road and bridge tax. Plus the tax on the gas at the pump.
I wish I could find the video of the guy on the rodent wheel. IIRC, money keeps coming out of his pocket as a long list of taxes scrolls on the side.
The list was EXTREMELY long.
PTmowerMech
I pay off the top of my head
Federal income tax
State income tax
Local income tax
6% sales tax on every purchase
80 cents tax on every gallon of gas or diesel for road maintenance (+ many roads in the area are toll roads on top of the gas tax)
$2800 per year property tax.
Right to work tax
Social security tax
Medicare tax
Yearly car registration on each vehicle
Yearly car inspection each vehicle (state currently gets $9 per inspection sticker)
But according to 1 here I'm not doing my fair share ??
What an idiot
You get a hunting license? That's a tax. Get a fishing license? That's a tax. Get a business license, Marriage license, drivers license... All going to a government. Tax. In Texas, there's the road and bridge tax. Plus the tax on the gas at the pump.
I wish I could find the video of the guy on the rodent wheel. IIRC, money keeps coming out of his pocket as a long list of taxes scrolls on the side.
The list was EXTREMELY long.
#36
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Every cent of every tax you have ever pad in your entire life would not cover the cost of 100 yards of an interstate .
Costs never go down so every time there is a tax cut the money has to come from some where else.
In the 80's & 90's the megga rich enforced user pays on the entire country ( similar happened down here ) because they get their company to pay all of those costs one way or another which reduces the profits & thus the taxes their company pays while maintaining the money that goes into their off shore trust accounts so relative to you , once again you are being sytomped all over .
As for property tax, I assume that goe s to the local authority which we call councils down here and does things like maintains local roads, stormwater drainage & collects your grbage.
Pay some one to come & collect all your rubbish once a week for a year and see just how far that $ 2800 goes .
As for the US $ being the default currency, it is rapidly being replaced by the Yuan , China's foreign exchange currency .
Part & parcel with small nations signing up to a Chinese trade deal is using Yuan as your default currency
The Chinese set up their own oil exchange 3 years ago which is now number 2 right behind the NY futures exchange and will in time overtake it .
One of the good things about our trade deal with China is they pay us in $ aus and we can pay them in either $ aus or Yuan but the new ones are mostly Yuan in both directions.
As for the poster child self made man , Jeff Bezos, well it is acase of the victor writing the history of the war
He did not go to Princeton on a paupers scholarship and his parents were not illiterate immigrants cutting corn in the beating sun.
The day he graduated he used power & infulence to get a very highly paid job on Wall St.
Being there he rubbed sholders with the movers & shakers so t was no problems for him to finance Amazon.
Not like PT, or me who have to borrow against our houses & go begging for funding.
He then used some very expensive lawyers who earn more in a minute that you or I will in our lifetimes to exploit holes in the not fully thought out e-commerce laws so he was not considered a retailer thus not bound by any retail laws so he could and did sell lots of counterfit & stolen books. particulalry the e-books through Amazon becausehe was not considered a retailer.
If you or I had done the same thing inside a bricks & mortar building with a door on the front, we would have been arrested, sued by the copyright holders, had our stock & profits confisticated and probably been banned from running a public company when we came out of gaol , even if we used the excuse that were were just consignment agents and all of the dubious products belonged to some one else.
And from there it has expanded to be the largest outlet for counterfit & faked products on the planet .
And even when he became the richest man on the planet he still treats his employees like slaves pays under award wages and perpetulally threatens to replace them all with robots which has them terrified as most of the floor staff live barely above the poverty line .
So that is the American way is it, what all the troops died for ?
So yes when he dies I would love to see all of his stolen wealth be redistributed to the thousands of book printers , book retialers, truck drivers and other retail employess tossed onto the scrap heap by his filthy money grubbing enterprise .
At lest when Henry Ford realized his employees were not paid enough money to buy one of the cars they made, he increased all their wages and started an employee car purchase plan so they could buy a ford at cost price .
And on a percentage of total income, Bezos pays far less than you & I or even the man sweeping the streets .
And don't forget every cent in his pockets was extracted from your pocket
Costs never go down so every time there is a tax cut the money has to come from some where else.
In the 80's & 90's the megga rich enforced user pays on the entire country ( similar happened down here ) because they get their company to pay all of those costs one way or another which reduces the profits & thus the taxes their company pays while maintaining the money that goes into their off shore trust accounts so relative to you , once again you are being sytomped all over .
As for property tax, I assume that goe s to the local authority which we call councils down here and does things like maintains local roads, stormwater drainage & collects your grbage.
Pay some one to come & collect all your rubbish once a week for a year and see just how far that $ 2800 goes .
As for the US $ being the default currency, it is rapidly being replaced by the Yuan , China's foreign exchange currency .
Part & parcel with small nations signing up to a Chinese trade deal is using Yuan as your default currency
The Chinese set up their own oil exchange 3 years ago which is now number 2 right behind the NY futures exchange and will in time overtake it .
One of the good things about our trade deal with China is they pay us in $ aus and we can pay them in either $ aus or Yuan but the new ones are mostly Yuan in both directions.
As for the poster child self made man , Jeff Bezos, well it is acase of the victor writing the history of the war
He did not go to Princeton on a paupers scholarship and his parents were not illiterate immigrants cutting corn in the beating sun.
The day he graduated he used power & infulence to get a very highly paid job on Wall St.
Being there he rubbed sholders with the movers & shakers so t was no problems for him to finance Amazon.
Not like PT, or me who have to borrow against our houses & go begging for funding.
He then used some very expensive lawyers who earn more in a minute that you or I will in our lifetimes to exploit holes in the not fully thought out e-commerce laws so he was not considered a retailer thus not bound by any retail laws so he could and did sell lots of counterfit & stolen books. particulalry the e-books through Amazon becausehe was not considered a retailer.
If you or I had done the same thing inside a bricks & mortar building with a door on the front, we would have been arrested, sued by the copyright holders, had our stock & profits confisticated and probably been banned from running a public company when we came out of gaol , even if we used the excuse that were were just consignment agents and all of the dubious products belonged to some one else.
And from there it has expanded to be the largest outlet for counterfit & faked products on the planet .
And even when he became the richest man on the planet he still treats his employees like slaves pays under award wages and perpetulally threatens to replace them all with robots which has them terrified as most of the floor staff live barely above the poverty line .
So that is the American way is it, what all the troops died for ?
So yes when he dies I would love to see all of his stolen wealth be redistributed to the thousands of book printers , book retialers, truck drivers and other retail employess tossed onto the scrap heap by his filthy money grubbing enterprise .
At lest when Henry Ford realized his employees were not paid enough money to buy one of the cars they made, he increased all their wages and started an employee car purchase plan so they could buy a ford at cost price .
And on a percentage of total income, Bezos pays far less than you & I or even the man sweeping the streets .
And don't forget every cent in his pockets was extracted from your pocket
#37
B
bertsmobile1
would it still be there if it was not for the rangers who of course don't work for the love of it .
Been out to sea in a boat, needed help ? who pays for the ship to shore radio & coastguard to come and drag your wet backside back to shore?
Who pays for the massive rescue efforts when your boat flounders & sinks leaving you in the ocean holding onto a broken oar ?
And of course who pays for the patrol boats that monitor the fisheries to make sure an unliscenced fleet of boats are not catching all of the fish on their way to spawn offloading them to a pirate floating factory for processing to finally be sold back to you at your cut price supermarket ?
Who pays for the inspectors who check the catches at the markets to ensure the right fish of the right size are being sold in the right numbers and then checks the quality so you don't end up with mercury posioning or something worse ?
Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of waste in government spending and even more corruption but we would all be stuffed without it
I some times ply golf
When I do I have to pay a greens fee to te golf club and in my case double as I am not a member so is this a tax , or a cost , as the golf clud rents the land from the government
Why should you be allowed to fish for free ? do you own the fish , did you breed them then release them into the river or ocean ? did you check everu outfll to ensure poison was not being released into the waterway ? did you remover flood debris ?
When is a tax tax & not a fee for a service ?
Is it OK for private enterprise to charge a fee but wrong for the government to do the same ?
B
bertsmobile1
And is there still game for you to hunt?You get a hunting license? That's a tax. Get a fishing license? That's a tax. Get a business license, Marriage license, drivers license... All going to a government. Tax. In Texas, there's the road and bridge tax. Plus the tax on the gas at the pump.
I wish I could find the video of the guy on the rodent wheel. IIRC, money keeps coming out of his pocket as a long list of taxes scrolls on the side.
The list was EXTREMELY long.
would it still be there if it was not for the rangers who of course don't work for the love of it .
Been out to sea in a boat, needed help ? who pays for the ship to shore radio & coastguard to come and drag your wet backside back to shore?
Who pays for the massive rescue efforts when your boat flounders & sinks leaving you in the ocean holding onto a broken oar ?
And of course who pays for the patrol boats that monitor the fisheries to make sure an unliscenced fleet of boats are not catching all of the fish on their way to spawn offloading them to a pirate floating factory for processing to finally be sold back to you at your cut price supermarket ?
Who pays for the inspectors who check the catches at the markets to ensure the right fish of the right size are being sold in the right numbers and then checks the quality so you don't end up with mercury posioning or something worse ?
Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of waste in government spending and even more corruption but we would all be stuffed without it
I some times ply golf
When I do I have to pay a greens fee to te golf club and in my case double as I am not a member so is this a tax , or a cost , as the golf clud rents the land from the government
Why should you be allowed to fish for free ? do you own the fish , did you breed them then release them into the river or ocean ? did you check everu outfll to ensure poison was not being released into the waterway ? did you remover flood debris ?
When is a tax tax & not a fee for a service ?
Is it OK for private enterprise to charge a fee but wrong for the government to do the same ?
#38
D
DK35vince
D
DK35vince
So let me break it down in simple terms what your trying to say.
We should pay through the nose in taxes while we are here.
Once we die the government should now get everything we owned'
That way within a couple generations the government. now owns every house, every car, every business, every piece of land.
From then forth we can work where they say. (they would now own it)
Live where they say (they now own it)
Do what they say, they now own total control over you.
OH that's brilliant !!.
We should pay through the nose in taxes while we are here.
Once we die the government should now get everything we owned'
That way within a couple generations the government. now owns every house, every car, every business, every piece of land.
From then forth we can work where they say. (they would now own it)
Live where they say (they now own it)
Do what they say, they now own total control over you.
OH that's brilliant !!.
#39
PTmowerMech
And that's the point. Taxation is theft? You bet it is when the ones taxing me and mine, are blowing and going on BS stuff that doesn't affect 99% of the others who are paying them.
I wouldn't even mind a single payer healthcare system, IF they cut out all the BS spending, Like NASA, all the wars and occupations we're in, feeding the MIC (Military Industrial Complex),
The government gets more than enough. They just need some Conservatives in DC. Instead of the Trump, McConnell type republicans. Bill Clinton was more fiscally conservative than Trump.
That's sad. But true.
If they'd quit wasting so much of our tax dollars, most of us wouldn't mind paying. But it's like giving money to a 35 yr old kid who refuses to work or do chores around the house.
PTmowerMech
Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of waste in government spending and even more corruption but we would all be stuffed without it
And that's the point. Taxation is theft? You bet it is when the ones taxing me and mine, are blowing and going on BS stuff that doesn't affect 99% of the others who are paying them.
I wouldn't even mind a single payer healthcare system, IF they cut out all the BS spending, Like NASA, all the wars and occupations we're in, feeding the MIC (Military Industrial Complex),
The government gets more than enough. They just need some Conservatives in DC. Instead of the Trump, McConnell type republicans. Bill Clinton was more fiscally conservative than Trump.
That's sad. But true.
If they'd quit wasting so much of our tax dollars, most of us wouldn't mind paying. But it's like giving money to a 35 yr old kid who refuses to work or do chores around the house.
#40
PTmowerMech
Is it really that much different now? I mean if you don't pay the tax, the government has the authority to take your stuff.
PTmowerMech
So let me break it down in simple terms what your trying to say.
We should pay through the nose in taxes while we are here.
Once we die the government should now get everything we owned'
That way within a couple generations the government. now owns every house, every car, every business, every piece of land.
From then forth we can work where they say. (they would now own it)
Live where they say (they now own it)
Do what they say, they now own total control over you.
OH that's brilliant !!.
Is it really that much different now? I mean if you don't pay the tax, the government has the authority to take your stuff.
#41
StarTech
StarTech
And the general public when they have an opportunity to reduce their property taxes here when they need to vote for them will still vote to be taxed heavy. Recently they were voting on renewing a property tax along with adding an additional tax that was half as a much. Otherwords they had an opportunity to cut their taxes by 50%, keep it the same, or increase it 50%. They all voted to keep it the same and nearly voted to increase it by 50%. Missed it by 100 votes.
Basically the tax payer is dumb as mud. The government is nothing but like the Mafia in their actions that we pay protection fees to. Recently they even tried to keep track of our money that keep in the bank to pay out if over $500 as they claimed we were avoiding paying taxes on it. I imagine there would have more fat mattresses if they did. Personally I keep mine in mason jars on the back forty under a booby trapped boulder. I keep my rump ribbon in the safe, it worth more as I always got to do the paperwork in the end.
Actually I keep my business at near non profit just because the government does take so much in taxes. I could charge more for my services but if I do it then the government will end up with about half of the profits anyways. Even when they owe you they don't want to pay, they are always finding a way to keep it or at least it seems that way here.
Basically the tax payer is dumb as mud. The government is nothing but like the Mafia in their actions that we pay protection fees to. Recently they even tried to keep track of our money that keep in the bank to pay out if over $500 as they claimed we were avoiding paying taxes on it. I imagine there would have more fat mattresses if they did. Personally I keep mine in mason jars on the back forty under a booby trapped boulder. I keep my rump ribbon in the safe, it worth more as I always got to do the paperwork in the end.
Actually I keep my business at near non profit just because the government does take so much in taxes. I could charge more for my services but if I do it then the government will end up with about half of the profits anyways. Even when they owe you they don't want to pay, they are always finding a way to keep it or at least it seems that way here.
#42
bkeller500
bkeller500
Government is corrupt, inefficient and prone to making huge mistakes. In the past I witnessed ( sate, local, and federal) government offices, schools, and universities go thru their bidding processes and I became very suspect on the way they go about getting things done. They have no problem spending other peoples money. They have mastered the process of getting what they want and blocking everything else. Its sad how each department spends their remaining budget money at the end of their fiscal year so they do not get budget cuts the following year. Go sit in on a county, city or even a school board meeting and watch. You will walk out frustrated and alarmed at how they do business.
#43
StarTech
StarTech
Yes witness similar thing at A&M university years ago while I was servicing a hi speed Burroughs check signer. End of year and they hadnt spent 10K and they hunting everywhere for something to spend it on.Government is corrupt, inefficient and prone to making huge mistakes. In the past I witnessed ( sate, local, and federal) government offices, schools, and universities go thru their bidding processes and I became very suspect on the way they go about getting things done. They have no problem spending other peoples money. They have mastered the process of getting what they want and blocking everything else. Its sad how each department spends their remaining budget money at the end of their fiscal year so they do not get budget cuts the following year. Go sit in on a county, city or even a school board meeting and watch. You will walk out frustrated and alarmed at how they do business.
#44
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Yet year in & year our you keep on voting for them
Are there no independents who ever stand for office in the USA ?
Are there no independents who ever stand for office in the USA ?
#45
Scrubcadet10
Our Texas state government has a chance at getting all new leadership in 2022 (Governor,Lieutenant Governor, and Attorney General) and replace the clean diapers that got filled up with poo poo.
Scrubcadet10
There are... but the problem is, both sides know how to play to their parties interests around election time and SAY the right things, get back in office, and go to filling their own pockets. Too many people vote by what letter is by a persons name and don't do any research.Yet year in & year our you keep on voting for them
Are there no independents who ever stand for office in the USA ?
Our Texas state government has a chance at getting all new leadership in 2022 (Governor,Lieutenant Governor, and Attorney General) and replace the clean diapers that got filled up with poo poo.
#46
PTmowerMech
I'm a conservative. And there hasn't been an actual conservative on any of my ballots since 2012. (Ron Paul) The GOP has outlaws true conservatism. In fact, one of the last Conservatives, Justin Amash, was kicked of the Congressional Budget Committee for trying to balance the budget now. Kicked off by a republican, John Beohner, who was the speaker of the House of Representatives.
Instead of kicking the can, like they have always done, Amash wanted to get some deep cuts implemented into the new budget and was opposing the "down the road cuts" (that would've never actually been cut)
So yeah, I'm not going to vote for anyone that I don't support. Especially for party loyalty. Party loyalist are what they have in Russia. It's what they had in NAZI Germany. It exists here in the USA. But I'm not one of them.
PTmowerMech
Yet year in & year our you keep on voting for them
Are there no independents who ever stand for office in the USA ?
I'm a conservative. And there hasn't been an actual conservative on any of my ballots since 2012. (Ron Paul) The GOP has outlaws true conservatism. In fact, one of the last Conservatives, Justin Amash, was kicked of the Congressional Budget Committee for trying to balance the budget now. Kicked off by a republican, John Beohner, who was the speaker of the House of Representatives.
Instead of kicking the can, like they have always done, Amash wanted to get some deep cuts implemented into the new budget and was opposing the "down the road cuts" (that would've never actually been cut)
So yeah, I'm not going to vote for anyone that I don't support. Especially for party loyalty. Party loyalist are what they have in Russia. It's what they had in NAZI Germany. It exists here in the USA. But I'm not one of them.
#47
B
bertsmobile1
As such, I sort of hear a lot of stuff in the background .
One of which was a facinating interview with an ex-lobbyist & spin doctor.
He was also a conservative so was happy to orchestrate the anti O'Bama government mediaide campaign paid for by vested medical interests .
This was very successful as their advertising campaign managed to ever turn 40% of democrat voting people against it so they got paid very large bonuses .
He changed his mind and resigned after a friend of his committed a murder suicide because the bills for his wifes medical treatments had cost him every thing that they owned, his house & both of the sets of parents houses.
In the interview he went through exactly how facts & figures were misrepresented , how statistics were selectively ommitted and when all that failed how they made people believe that it was an attack on the very "Bill of Rights" itself .
Then when he actually went through the mediaide bill itself , he realised that it was actually exceedingly good policy, even from his small government conservative stance .
Because of the death of his friend, he dug into medical costs and found out that a screaming 66% of all personal ( not BS chapter 11 ) bankruptcies were due to medical costs and of these over 95% of the people never recovered financially. Around 70% of the bankrupts divorced and most never remarried . Around 30% ended up involved in crime resulting in prison .
He quoted some numbers of the men mainly who were suspected of deliberately killing themselves so their family could get the insurance money to stave off bankruptcy caused by medical bills for the partners or childrens health care .
He then found that of the people who did not become bankrupt but were forced to sell their houses to remain financially afloat over 90 % of this group died homeless
The caveat is of course it is difficult to get accurate numbers and medical institutions do the best they can to hide true facts & figures so these were just what he uncovered over the period of a few years while he was "finding himself".
What he could not reconsile himself with is he got paid $ 3,000,000 to do this dirty work and he accepted the money without any attempt to see if what he was doing was good or evil, it was just a job to him and they never bothered to go into the morality of anything , just achieve an outcome to get a fee .
And of course he was just one of thousands of people doing the same job for anyone who would pay them and there were thousands more clambering to get into the game .
B
bertsmobile1
I have tinnitis so while I am standing, the radio is on and when I try & sleep, I have some reel to reel tapes of sleep to music, Fripp & Eno / Herbie Mann / Santanna & the likeThere are... but the problem is, both sides know how to play to their parties interests around election time and SAY the right things, get back in office, and go to filling their own pockets. Too many people vote by what letter is by a persons name and don't do any research.
Our Texas state government has a chance at getting all new leadership in 2022 (Governor,Lieutenant Governor, and Attorney General) and replace the clean diapers that got filled up with poo poo.
As such, I sort of hear a lot of stuff in the background .
One of which was a facinating interview with an ex-lobbyist & spin doctor.
He was also a conservative so was happy to orchestrate the anti O'Bama government mediaide campaign paid for by vested medical interests .
This was very successful as their advertising campaign managed to ever turn 40% of democrat voting people against it so they got paid very large bonuses .
He changed his mind and resigned after a friend of his committed a murder suicide because the bills for his wifes medical treatments had cost him every thing that they owned, his house & both of the sets of parents houses.
In the interview he went through exactly how facts & figures were misrepresented , how statistics were selectively ommitted and when all that failed how they made people believe that it was an attack on the very "Bill of Rights" itself .
Then when he actually went through the mediaide bill itself , he realised that it was actually exceedingly good policy, even from his small government conservative stance .
Because of the death of his friend, he dug into medical costs and found out that a screaming 66% of all personal ( not BS chapter 11 ) bankruptcies were due to medical costs and of these over 95% of the people never recovered financially. Around 70% of the bankrupts divorced and most never remarried . Around 30% ended up involved in crime resulting in prison .
He quoted some numbers of the men mainly who were suspected of deliberately killing themselves so their family could get the insurance money to stave off bankruptcy caused by medical bills for the partners or childrens health care .
He then found that of the people who did not become bankrupt but were forced to sell their houses to remain financially afloat over 90 % of this group died homeless
The caveat is of course it is difficult to get accurate numbers and medical institutions do the best they can to hide true facts & figures so these were just what he uncovered over the period of a few years while he was "finding himself".
What he could not reconsile himself with is he got paid $ 3,000,000 to do this dirty work and he accepted the money without any attempt to see if what he was doing was good or evil, it was just a job to him and they never bothered to go into the morality of anything , just achieve an outcome to get a fee .
And of course he was just one of thousands of people doing the same job for anyone who would pay them and there were thousands more clambering to get into the game .
#48
bkeller500
bkeller500
There is no accountability because our elected officials have mastered their ability to hide the facts and hide from the truth. The freshmen reps are quickly pulled into mess and corruption and lose their focus and break their promises.
#49
ILENGINE
ILENGINE
I have said for years that we need to divide our elected officials into two groups.
The group we hang and the group we drown.
The group we hang and the group we drown.
#50
PTmowerMech
Think about it. The Republicans and Democrats are supposedly BOTH against segregation, and yet they willingly segregate themselves.
I get it, it's not the same thing. But then again, it is the same thing.
PTmowerMech
I have said for years that we need to divide our elected officials into two groups.
The group we hang and the group we drown.
Think about it. The Republicans and Democrats are supposedly BOTH against segregation, and yet they willingly segregate themselves.
I get it, it's not the same thing. But then again, it is the same thing.
#51
P
PORKIE
P
PORKIE
After Obama, I am 100% for Segregation as He changed my entire Racial attitudes. Any Sentient and half way intelligent person can see that Race relations have went downhill and continue to do so to achieve racial pandering and Social engineering. Because I am 'White,' I am the target of social unrest and Racism and automatically a Supremacist.
The 'Handout' and 'Welfare' crowd loves Chaos, Riots, Demonstration and Anarchy as a way, in their small and deluded minds, to bring about Social change! Has reverse discrimination solved anything?
Demoncrat's just love to spend the money of other's: TAX AND SPEND from Cradle to Grave.
GOD help us!
Sam
The 'Handout' and 'Welfare' crowd loves Chaos, Riots, Demonstration and Anarchy as a way, in their small and deluded minds, to bring about Social change! Has reverse discrimination solved anything?
Demoncrat's just love to spend the money of other's: TAX AND SPEND from Cradle to Grave.
GOD help us!
Sam
#52
bkeller500
bkeller500
Unfortunately the truth is right in front of us but concealed by the media. Most voters cannot hold their elected officials accountable because they are never made aware of the facts. All of the news outlets have a self serving agenda and are no longer journalists. The you don't expose the crime, the crime continues. It goes for both sides.
#53
upupandaway
I'm a minority and even I agree with you.
upupandaway
After Obama, I am 100% for Segregation as He changed my entire Racial attitudes.
I'm a minority and even I agree with you.
#54
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
The quote is "Divide & Conquer" and both of your parties have been doing this for decades.
Until Americans see themselves as one country not red or blue states with each side blaming the other for everything that they perceive as being wrong they will continue to squabble between themselves.
While you are buisy blaming the the other party or who ever is in the oval office, the trillionairs will continue to rob you blind .
We all know how this works
Hitler shifted the blame for all that was wrong in German society to the Jewish population
Ex president Trump tried to do the same with the Mexicans & Hispanics .
So much easier to find a scape goat than admit you are the problem.
What bemuses me is much of the early migration to the USA was by persecuted minorities fleeing oppression in Europe.
As such one would expect Americans to be one of the most tollerant populations towards minorities but from here ( news is not balanced nor objective any more ) the exact opposite seems to be the case.
Until Americans see themselves as one country not red or blue states with each side blaming the other for everything that they perceive as being wrong they will continue to squabble between themselves.
While you are buisy blaming the the other party or who ever is in the oval office, the trillionairs will continue to rob you blind .
We all know how this works
Hitler shifted the blame for all that was wrong in German society to the Jewish population
Ex president Trump tried to do the same with the Mexicans & Hispanics .
So much easier to find a scape goat than admit you are the problem.
What bemuses me is much of the early migration to the USA was by persecuted minorities fleeing oppression in Europe.
As such one would expect Americans to be one of the most tollerant populations towards minorities but from here ( news is not balanced nor objective any more ) the exact opposite seems to be the case.
#55
Hammermechanicman
Hammermechanicman
?
#56
D
DK35vince
Sure beats your idea that big government Socialism/Communism being better.
D
DK35vince
Let them squabble.,The quote is "Divide & Conquer" and both of your parties have been doing this for decades.
Until Americans see themselves as one country not red or blue states with each side blaming the other for everything that they perceive as being wrong they will continue to squabble between themselves.
Sure beats your idea that big government Socialism/Communism being better.
#57
B
bertsmobile1
It is called tollerance, acceptance & understanding .
B
bertsmobile1
An idea I am happy for you to have and we could argue the merits & demerits of it till the cows come home but I doubt if either of us will be convinced to take the others sideLet them squabble.,
Sure beats your idea that big government Socialism/Communism being better.
It is called tollerance, acceptance & understanding .
#58
P
PORKIE
Sam
P
PORKIE
You sound very un-American there Bert. What Nirvana of a country are you from? GOD bless America.The quote is "Divide & Conquer" and both of your parties have been doing this for decades.
Until Americans see themselves as one country not red or blue states with each side blaming the other for everything that they perceive as being wrong they will continue to squabble between themselves.
While you are buisy blaming the the other party or who ever is in the oval office, the trillionairs will continue to rob you blind .
We all know how this works
Hitler shifted the blame for all that was wrong in German society to the Jewish population
Ex president Trump tried to do the same with the Mexicans & Hispanics .
So much easier to find a scape goat than admit you are the problem.
What bemuses me is much of the early migration to the USA was by persecuted minorities fleeing oppression in Europe.
As such one would expect Americans to be one of the most tollerant populations towards minorities but from here ( news is not balanced nor objective any more ) the exact opposite seems to be the case.
Sam