Export thread

Toro MX5060 with Kawasaki 23hp, paper cartridge air filter. My yard gets very dusty in some spots when the weather gets very dry and in some parts of the yard the mower kicks up a cloud of dust. I use to take the filter off every few months. When I tapped it on the side of a tree I was disgusted with the amount of dust that came out. I'm beginning to think I now need to remove it every couple of mowings and tap it till no more comes out.
(1) I'd like some feedback about how often you guys take off the filter and tap it to get the dust out. (2) Do any of you use the sponge like cover that fits over the filter?

Hold up a minute! Are you sure it has Yamaha engine? I would think it came with a 23hp Kawasaki engine.
Please provide us a model number and serial number of the mower.

MParr said:

Hold up a minute! Are you sure it has Yamaha engine? I would think it came with a 23hp Kawasaki engine.
Please provide us a model number and serial number of the mower.

Click to expand...

I don't know why I said that, other than I'm getting old. Yes, it has a Kawasaki 23hp. I corrected it, thanks! My boat has the Yamaha.
The mower is Model 74641

Put on a mask and use compressed air from the inside of the filter out. Or get a washable filter if you can find one.

jcworks said:

I don't know why I said that, other than I'm getting old. Yes, it has a Kawasaki 23hp. I corrected it, thanks! My boat has the Yamaha.
The mower is Model 74641

Click to expand...

FR691V
Good. Yes, get you a foam pre-filter. It’s washable with dish soap and warm water. Some folks like to use a foam filter oil on the pre-filter. You can get that at your parts store or motorcycle shop. Always spray lightly on a clean dry foam filter. You will still need to clean the paper element periodically. Refer to your manual. Compressed air can damage the paper element. A leaf blower works much better. Blow from the inside to the outside.

MParr said:

FR691V
Good. Yes, get you a foam pre-filter. It’s washable with dish soap and warm water. Some folks like to use a foam filter oil on the pre-filter. You can get that at your parts store or motorcycle shop. Always spray lightly on a clean dry foam filter. You will still need to clean the paper element periodically. Refer to your manual. Compressed air can damage the paper element. A leaf blower works much better. Blow from the inside to the outside.

Click to expand...

most sources of compressed air allow for regulation of the air pressure. One does not need to hit it with 150 PSI. Just barely enough to blow the dust out is adequate. I do it all the time with certain filters and there is no damage. But I am not using enough pressure to tear the element.

Do not oil a foam filter. That oil will migrate from the foam to the paper, clogging the paper filter very quickly. A foam filter over the paper filter is your best bet and a quick blast with air after each use will solve your problem.

one can also spray a small amount of water over the dusty area to just dampen it a bit but not make it muddy, and that will help keep the dust down, or mow a couple days after a rain. Turn the rainbirds on the day before etc.,

Let the paper clog with oil. At least it's not micro-fine grit entering the engine. Won't hurt a thing. Paper might not flow as zippy as a dry one, small potatoes. It will eventually clear a path and flow again.

I too say get a foam pre filter and oil it up with some SAE 30w. Even better is that tacky dirt bike UNI foam filter spray.

Also I say to leave the air filter alone until it starts to run poorly. Taking it on and off, blowing any kind of air stresses out the paper. You are just blowing grit into the paper. Install it, leave it alone and cut some grass. Briggs says to replace once a year.

Lastly a dirty filter filters better than a new clean one.

jcworks said:

Toro MX5060 with Kawasaki 23hp, paper cartridge air filter. My yard gets very dusty in some spots when the weather gets very dry and in some parts of the yard the mower kicks up a cloud of dust. I use to take the filter off every few months. When I tapped it on the side of a tree I was disgusted with the amount of dust that came out. I'm beginning to think I now need to remove it every couple of mowings and tap it till no more comes out.
(1) I'd like some feedback about how often you guys take off the filter and tap it to get the dust out. (2) Do any of you use the sponge like cover that fits over the filter?

Click to expand...

Hi JC, if you dig around on the site you can find many discussions about air filters. There are even some that will call you thrifty for complaining about having to replace your air filter. There are upgrades available for you air filter box. I took it on myself, couldn't be happier with the results. The only way to solve you issue is to move the air intake above the problem. This may look a little strange but is does a great job!!! Cheers, Ray

jcworks said:

Toro MX5060 with Kawasaki 23hp, paper cartridge air filter. My yard gets very dusty in some spots when the weather gets very dry and in some parts of the yard the mower kicks up a cloud of dust. I use to take the filter off every few months. When I tapped it on the side of a tree I was disgusted with the amount of dust that came out. I'm beginning to think I now need to remove it every couple of mowings and tap it till no more comes out.
(1) I'd like some feedback about how often you guys take off the filter and tap it to get the dust out. (2) Do any of you use the sponge like cover that fits over the filter?

Click to expand...

Snapper did that decades ago on their push mowers. Moved the air filter to the white push bar. Was a black plastic hose from carb to middle of the push bar. Had a metal top cover to keep the rain off. Never had to mess with it. This was back in the day when they made mowers to last. Back in the 3 and 3.5hp Briggs days.

slomo said:

Let the paper clog with oil. At least it's not micro-fine grit entering the engine. Won't hurt a thing. Paper might not flow as zippy as a dry one, small potatoes. It will eventually clear a path and flow again.

I too say get a foam pre filter and oil it up with some SAE 30w.

Also I say to leave the air filter alone until it starts to run poorly. Taking it on and off, blowing any kind of air stresses out the paper. You are just blowing grit into the paper. Install it, leave it alone and cut some grass. Briggs says to replace once a year.

Lastly a dirty filter filters better than a new clean one.

Click to expand...

Yet, Kohler says to oil their foam pre-filters.

sgkent said:

Put on a mask and use compressed air from the inside of the filter out. Or get a washable filter if you can find one.

Click to expand...

IF you were ever taught about compressed air safety then you would have been told never to blow it on your skin because it will blow tiny tiny water droplets right through your skin
For the same reason you should never used compressed air to blow out a paper filter as any water droplets ( and there always will be ) will blast holes through the filter

slomo said:

Let the paper clog with oil. At least it's not micro-fine grit entering the engine. Won't hurt a thing. Paper might not flow as zippy as a dry one, small potatoes. It will eventually clear a path and flow again.

I too say get a foam pre filter and oil it up with some SAE 30w.

Also I say to leave the air filter alone until it starts to run poorly. Taking it on and off, blowing any kind of air stresses out the paper. You are just blowing grit into the paper. Install it, leave it alone and cut some grass. Briggs says to replace once a year.

Lastly a dirty filter filters better than a new clean one.

Click to expand...

So you really believe it's OK to let it choke with dirt until it starts to run bad then change? I'm sure glad you're not doing my maintenance. Just curious, what does your oil look like?

slomo said:

Let the paper clog with oil. At least it's not micro-fine grit entering the engine. Won't hurt a thing. Paper might not flow as zippy as a dry one, small potatoes. It will eventually clear a path and flow again.

I too say get a foam pre filter and oil it up with some SAE 30w.

Also I say to leave the air filter alone until it starts to run poorly. Taking it on and off, blowing any kind of air stresses out the paper. You are just blowing grit into the paper. Install it, leave it alone and cut some grass. Briggs says to replace once a year.

Lastly a dirty filter filters better than a new clean one.

Click to expand...

slomo said:

Snapper did that decades ago on their push mowers. Moved the air filter to the white push bar. Was a black plastic hose from carb to middle of the push bar. Had a metal top cover to keep the rain off. Never had to mess with it. This was back in the day when they made mowers to last. Back in the 3 and 3.5hp Briggs days.

Click to expand...

Victa did that back in 1954 and continued not only to do it with their own engine but also to the Tecumseh, B & S and Honda engines fitted
The filters never need to be replaced because they just don't get clogged.
When B & S took them over they abandoned the snorkel filters on all models

So you really believe it's OK to let it choke with dirt until it starts to run bad then change? I'm sure glad you're not doing my maintenance. Just curious, what does your oil look like?

Click to expand...

Yes,
that is what flow meters do
Tell you when to replace air filters
I just look at the inside, when it starts to show colour they get replaced
Dust on the outside makes the filter work better till it gets to the point of preventing sufficient air volumes to pass through and for a mower engine, that is very very very very very dirty .
The down side is air like any other fluid will take the path of least resistance so as the filter gets clogged, air will start to be pulled through the connecting elbow
The elbow on these engines is a very poor design & hard to get a good seal .
Nearly every one I service for the first time has dust inside the manifold that has leaked through the joints in the elbow .
Usualy I can convince the customer to fit a Donaldson duel element air filter as fitted to the FX series or at least the Engineaire filter that is cheaper.

When Kohler tells you to wash and oil your pre-filter every 25 hours and change out the paper element and foam pre-filter every 100 hours, just do it. While your in there vacuum and wipe the filter box with a damp rag. Reassemble and go.

I have the foam pre-filter on my Kaw FR651V. Kawasaki says the FS Air filters are better quality filter media., They are on their commercial FS line of engines. So I have that style on mine, w/ pre-filter but dry..


This is the conversion I made for my former Toro. I have an updated version (in the works) for my new mower, but because of warranty, I have to wait.
https://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showthread.php/52096-Kawaaski-FR651V-FX-air-box-conversion

7394 said:

I have the foam pre-filter on my Kaw FR651V. Kawasaki says the FS Air filters are better quality filter media., They are on their commercial FS line of engines. So I have that style on mine, w/ pre-filter but dry..


This is the conversion I made for my former Toro. I have an updated version (in the works) for my new mower, but because of warranty, I have to wait.
https://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showthread.php/52096-Kawaaski-FR651V-FX-air-box-conversion

Click to expand...

That’s always a good option.

Thank You Sir.

I have no idea how I am blowing grit into the paper when the air is filtered clean, and the low pressure air is from the inside out. Not trying to get into a pissing contest but short of just replacing the filter this is the easiest solution. Frankly I have a box with new filters in it and I personally replace them but sometimes if it is just dust on a filter like my glass bead machine I will blow it off from THE INSIDE OUT.

RayMcD said:

So you really believe it's OK to let it choke with dirt until it starts to run bad then change? I'm sure glad you're not doing my maintenance. Just curious, what does your oil look like?

Click to expand...

Yes.

You can tell when it doesn't start as it should and maybe getting a touch low in power. Usually the starting delay (extra cranks or rope pulls) will tip you off first. Not a big deal. At that time replace or clean and re-oil.

So do you replace filters at every mow or what? These are lawn mower engines we are talking about.

Do what ever you can to keep any and all grit out of the engine. If that means oil, yes do it. Foam, yes do it. I even use some Magic Lube (ultra tacky - doesn't move in water) and put a layer around the paper filter sealing lips. Get drastic on keeping dirt out of your engine.

Don't know how many engines I've seen where you remove the air filter, open up the intake pipe and see dirt all inside. A finger wipe is loaded with grit. It's like they didn't run it with any air filter in. Just did a Briggs Intek 13.5hp. Intake pipe was full of dirt. Either non OEM filters or lack of clamps. That is a terrible filter design on those housings.

Actually my oil is pretty clear. I have to get the readers on and go out in direct sun to check oil level. When in doubt change it out.

sgkent said:

I have no idea how I am blowing grit into the paper when the air is filtered clean, and the low pressure air is from the inside out. Not trying to get into a pissing contest but short of just replacing the filter this is the easiest solution. Frankly I have a box with new filters in it and I personally replace them but sometimes if it is just dust on a filter like my glass bead machine I will blow it off from THE INSIDE OUT.

Click to expand...

Do all the blowing you want. More dirt filters better. Until the point air flow suffers.

If you think about it, take an air nozzle, aim it at your just installed yesterday filter. How much air do you think, is actually going through the paper filter? All that air is going to hit the paper, bounce off and go around the filter. Not worth wasting time firing up the compressor, digging out air hoses and nozzles....... Path of least resistance. I have more important things to do like drinking a couple cold ones and cutting some grass.

RayMcD said:

Hi JC, if you dig around on the site you can find many discussions about air filters. There are even some that will call you thrifty for complaining about having to replace your air filter. There are upgrades available for you air filter box. I took it on myself, couldn't be happier with the results. The only way to solve you issue is to move the air intake above the problem. This may look a little strange but is does a great job!!! Cheers, Ray

Click to expand...

Good job. Critics of me being thrifty would probably be right. I do have a foam covering over the filter. It broke; I'll get another today. Even with the foam filter (which I've not coated with anything) the paper filter gets a ton of dust in it. Maybe thats something I shouldn't worry about and just take it off every other mowing and tap it out instead of doing it twice a season like I've been doing. I read somewhere once, I don't remember where, that I should not use that foam filter. Why, I don't know. But I use it anyway. Whatever, after a couple of those real bad dusty days I know tapping it releases tons of dust, and the foam filter is coated. I'll look around and see if I can find modifications to my model engine that can be bought or made.

jcworks said:

Good job. Critics of me being thrifty would probably be right. I do have a foam covering over the filter. It broke; I'll get another today. Even with the foam filter (which I've not coated with anything) the paper filter gets a ton of dust in it. Maybe thats something I shouldn't worry about and just take it off every other mowing and tap it out instead of doing it twice a season like I've been doing. I read somewhere once, I don't remember where, that I should not use that foam filter. Why, I don't know. But I use it anyway. Whatever, after a couple of those real bad dusty days I know tapping it releases tons of dust, and the foam filter is coated. I'll look around and see if I can find modifications to my model engine that can be bought or made.

Click to expand...

Why would you not use any tool that can stop any dirt/grit from entering the engine? Foam, Flex Seal, duct tape bailing wire...... Makes no sense.

As I stated, I am using the foam sleeve that slides over the paper filter.

jcworks said:

As I stated, I am using the foam sleeve that slides over the paper filter.

Click to expand...

Why dry? Some SAE 30w or UNI filter oil would help. You should already have some SAE 30w in the garage.

What is the serial number of this engine?

txmowman said:

What is the serial number of this engine?

Click to expand...

txnowman, I don't know the serial #. To be honest its too darn hot to walk out there and look it up . It is 100 here. If it helps any, the mower is a Toro MX5060, model 74641, with a Kawasaki 23hp engine. I "think" the mower came with just the paper filter and not a foam sleeve over that filter. But thats 12 years ago and I've changed filters 2 or 3 times. I don't recall but it may be another brand filter thats on there now. I really don't know. I put that foam sleeve over it that came with a prior filter. I figure as thin as that foam sleeve is its not going to hurt in any way.

jcworks said:

txnowman, I don't know the serial #. To be honest its too darn hot to walk out there and look it up . It is 100 here. If it helps any, the mower is a Toro MX5060, model 74641, with a Kawasaki 23hp engine. I "think" the mower came with just the paper filter and not a foam sleeve over that filter. But thats 12 years ago and I've changed filters 2 or 3 times. I don't recall but it may be another brand filter thats on there now. I really don't know. I put that foam sleeve over it that came with a prior filter. I figure as thin as that foam sleeve is its not going to hurt in any way.

Click to expand...

JC, as you know I took the high road and built my own filter assembly, here's a link to one that I'm sure would server you well. https://powerequipmentman.com/collections/all-products/products/air-filter-upgrade-kit
Unitl you get that crummy elbow that attaches your filter sooner or latter you will be sucking dirt directly into the carb..

Cheers, Ray

jcworks said:

txnowman, I don't know the serial #. To be honest its too darn hot to walk out there and look it up . It is 100 here. If it helps any, the mower is a Toro MX5060, model 74641, with a Kawasaki 23hp engine. I "think" the mower came with just the paper filter and not a foam sleeve over that filter. But thats 12 years ago and I've changed filters 2 or 3 times. I don't recall but it may be another brand filter thats on there now. I really don't know. I put that foam sleeve over it that came with a prior filter. I figure as thin as that foam sleeve is its not going to hurt in any way.

Click to expand...

FWIW: Change the paper filler and foam pre-filter once a year or every 100 hours, whichever comes first.
You can blow out the paper filter or tap the dust out whenever you feel like it. For the foam pre-filter, wash and dry every 25 hours and lightly coat with a spray foam filter oil.Vacuum and wipe the filter housing with a damp cloth when you pull the filters.

Don't forget a little grease on the sealing edge of the paper filter. Messy but traps dirt and grit.

jcworks said:

Good job. Critics of me being thrifty would probably be right. I do have a foam covering over the filter. It broke; I'll get another today. Even with the foam filter (which I've not coated with anything) the paper filter gets a ton of dust in it. Maybe thats something I shouldn't worry about and just take it off every other mowing and tap it out instead of doing it twice a season like I've been doing. I read somewhere once, I don't remember where, that I should not use that foam filter. Why, I don't know. But I use it anyway. Whatever, after a couple of those real bad dusty days I know tapping it releases tons of dust, and the foam filter is coated. I'll look around and see if I can find modifications to my model engine that can be bought or made.

Click to expand...

NO
Like tour mother told you in the bath tub
Leave it alone or it will fall off .
The problem with the Kawasaki air filters is the elbow getting it to seal properly either end is quite difficult and every one a customer has replaced the elbows were over tight causing a leak, usually both ends .
So don't touch it till you see signs of rich running then replace it
Worth putting a light bead of silicon sealant on the male ends before inserting them then lightly tighten and don't touch it for as long as possible
Two customers have needed new rings in their Time Cutters due to dust being sucked in around the elbow
If it clogs to the point of running rich then you know it is doing it's job
If the engine always runs clean then the filter does not need to be replaced .
My wholesaler puts together a conversion kit that has been certified by Kawasaki to convert FS & FR to FX filtering and does not affect warranty
Kit for small engines that use a shorter single element filter
Kit for larger engines that use the 2 element filter
Note that these are all genuine Kawasaki parts
When I fit them I mount the filter canister on the right side ROPS vertical so it is well above the engine & does not obstruct access to it
Mounting on the blower housing makes pulling the housing off a bit tedious
The kits above both have steel blower housings with them which doubles the price and fitting to the ROPS means the original plastic housing can remain and I just use some convoluted tube to go between the filter & the carb.
One has been on for 5 years now without a problem, in fact it is still running the original filters
Pulling air from above the dust zone makes a massive difference
As I previously mentioned Victa fitted them to their push mowers and I have some of them that are still running the original air filters some 20 years latter.
Most that I replace are choked with spider webs or mud wasp nests , not mowing dust & grass clippings
Compare them to the side panel filters fitted to modern Honda & B & S engines which rarely last a single season, remembering we get 40+ C days and mow around 40 times a year down here .
On the mowers with air intake snorkels the story is the same
After 5 years there is a small oval of dust on the side panel filters and no visible dust on the top mount Honda filters .

It is so appalling reading the advice of so called 'engine experts' on this forum. Why does the owners manual say to "tap out" the filter? That is because it is paper and any compressed air will damage it. Can you blow through a piece of paper? Only if it already has micro holes in it, like the media of any air filter. How low of air pressure will not change the size of these tiny holes? My guess is probably not a lot.
If it needs to be blown out, it probably needs replacing. The manual says to not oil the pre-filter. Why? Because oil attracts dirt. And, there is no need to order an illegal aftermarket air filter system, if someone would have ordered the correct engine for the job to begin with.
Kawasaki offers a 3 year warranty on all engines against manufacturing defects. Dirt ingestion is not a manufacturing defect.

Just my .02, the foam filter will only stop twigs & leaves etc.. Oiled, it will stop much more, but will require cleaning much more often.

What I have tested is a womans nylon stocking, stretched over the FS air filter. ( 1 layer) that is so fine that it helps..

But best is the 2 stage Donaldson set up, like the FX Kaws run..

7394 said:

Just my .02, the foam filter will only stop twigs & leaves etc.. Oiled, it will stop much more, but will require cleaning much more often.

What I have tested is a womans nylon stocking, stretched over the FS air filter. ( 1 layer) that is so fine that it helps..

But best is the 2 stage Donaldson set up, like the FX Kaws run..

Click to expand...

I could live with that 7394, as long as the oil is minimal, as to not wet the paper element. Seriously, if you live in the south, where there is more fine dirt than grass, spend the extra $ and get an FX engine.
The FR filter is fine for those who are maintenance minded, but there is not near the filtering capability of the FX.
If the rubber tube is installed correctly and the clamps are TIGHT!, you will not have issues. You would have to try damn hard to over torque a clamp. The air's pass of least resistance is through the filter media. When it can't filter any longer, the engine will get air from wherever it can.

txmowman said:

It is so appalling reading the advice of so called 'engine experts' on this forum. Why does the owners manual say to "tap out" the filter? That is because it is paper and any compressed air will damage it. Can you blow through a piece of paper? Only if it already has micro holes in it, like the media of any air filter. How low of air pressure will not change the size of these tiny holes? My guess is probably not a lot.
If it needs to be blown out, it probably needs replacing. The manual says to not oil the pre-filter. Why? Because oil attracts dirt. And, there is no need to order an illegal aftermarket air filter system, if someone would have ordered the correct engine for the job to begin with.
Kawasaki offers a 3 year warranty on all engines against manufacturing defects. Dirt ingestion is not a manufacturing defect.

Click to expand...

Yes I agree
However in a civilized society people can have different opinions and while I try to point out things that are bad or incorrect it is not my job to change peoples minds
In many cases a mower engine will run fine for a very long time with no filter at all
Motorcycles rarely had a filter on the carb till almost WWII and even then a lot of sports bikes ( and cars) had nothing more than a coarse screen to stop sticks & stones
Mower engines do so few hours that abrasion from dust ingression to the point of engine failure is highly unlikely to happen before the mower parts themselves fail .All of the ring failures have been on ZTR's with baggers that exude a massive amount of very fine dust very close to the air intake and when bagging people tend to mow slower so a lot of that dust gets sucked into the blower housing then blasted into the filter chamber

Filters should not be blown out with compressed air unless that air has been eletrostatically filtered before being compressed
The filter shop I use that "dry cleans" filters used on earth moving equipment has $ 20,000 worth of gear that microscopically cleans the air down to 0.1µ and then pulse blasts the air filters from the inside out .
The maximum number of times they will do this is 11 and they test them prior to sending them back with smoke ≈ 2µ particle size .
OTOH this gear can ave filter that go better than $ 100 a pop and can clog up in less than 8 hours of use .

I fit FS engines because they are over $ 1000 cheaper than FX's which are over kill for domestic customers
RGS supply the upgrade filter kits for about 1/2 the price difference and without the steel blower housing that comes down to a 1/4 .
They are not "ILLEGAL" they are authorised by kawasaki and come with a warranty continuation certificate , if fitted by a recognised technician.
As I have tried to emphasise the biggest problem is in the fitting.
Clamping onto a plastic tube is not a good idea as you can easily deform the tube and create an air leak .

The purpose of the foam is not to filter dust bit to hold back grass clippings that block off large sections of the paper surface so no need to oil them
Foam only filters do need to be oiled but they are very thick and work by causing the air to follow a turbulent path so the dust will hit the oiled surface thus stick to it .
This does not happen very much with prefilters because they are way too thin to do any effective filtering , they are a screen and are only foam because foam is cheaper than wire mesh

Pople see stuff on the web that dose not apply to them or their situation then blindly apply it where it does not belong because they have not thought it through properly to start with.

The difference in retail price between and FR and an FX "engine" is $200-300. Maybe on a mower there is $1k difference? If that is the case let me clarify. For those who do not do proper maintenance and fail their FR engine, replace it with an FX.

It is ILLEGAL, as in a violation of EPA regulations to retrofit an FR with the FX canister filter system.

Lastly, I will sell you as many engines as you like that you can run without an air filter.

txmowman said:

The difference in retail price between and FR and an FX "engine" is $200-300. Maybe on a mower there is $1k difference? If that is the case let me clarify. For those who do not do proper maintenance and fail their FR engine, replace it with an FX.

It is ILLEGAL, as in a violation of EPA regulations to retrofit an FR with the FX canister filter system.

Lastly, I will sell you as many engines as you like that you can run without an air filter.

Click to expand...

I can not see why fitting an air filter that is available as an add on option to the mower when new would be illegal
But then I can never see any sense in most of what governments do particularly EPA's yours or ours
I can not reproduce & post my Feb 2022 wholesale kawasaki price if I want to keep selling them but the difference in price I pay from my distributor for the FX 691v to the FR 691v is $970 ( Aus)
Add my 30% mark up +10% GST on top of that and it comes out at $ 1387 to the customer which used to be more than $ 1000 when I went to school
I am expecting an update to that price list as that wholesaler just added 9.5% across the board to all prices as of July 1 which is the beginning of our financial year .
I can fit the double element Donaldson for just under $ 300 or the single element Enginaire for just under $ 200 and both of those prices include the air flow meters to tell you when to change the filter so you don't damage the soft sealing faces checking to see if a good filter needs replacing .

I presume you are a technician of some sort so I would ask how many old Sprint engines come in with next to nothing of the foam filter left in the housings
And how many of the leave working fine with an oil change & a new filter fitted ?
Now for an all alloy bore things would be different.
FWIW Kawasaki use a soft bore and hard rings so the cross hatching wears off quickly after which the rings can no longer maintain a good seal to the bore .

I've seen well maintained Kawasaki engines used on oil rigs, with several thousand hours, where the bore looks as if it was just honed. Rings do not wear a cylinder if the engine is properly maintained.
Anybody that knows this industry, knows John Deere is the king. How is it that JD would primarily use Kawasaki engines in their commercial line for more than 30 years, if they were not a commercial grade engine?
ALL lawn mower engines need need great credit. Think about this people, A lawn mower engine runs at 3,600 rpm, sometimes for 8 hours a day. What would it take to get your truck to do the same? Probably doing north of 100 mph to reach 3600 rpm? Doing it in second gear? Would you do this? Would you ever think to stop and check the oil or anything? The problem today is that we've been conditioned by mostly the big box companies that we can use and abuse something. When it fails, we just return it. Well, a lot of you shop owners and sales organizations are not big box stores. You don't have the room or the clout to do business this way. Now, go out and give your mowers some love.

txmowman said:

The manual says to not oil the pre-filter. Why? Because oil attracts dirt.

Click to expand...

Again, why not oil the pre foam filter? This source also states it attracts dirt? Isn't that a good thing? Isn't that the sole purpose of a "filter"?

Why would you not do anything you could, to stop dirt, from getting into your engine?

txmowman said:

I've seen well maintained Kawasaki engines used on oil rigs, with several thousand hours, where the bore looks as if it was just honed. Rings do not wear a cylinder if the engine is properly maintained.

Click to expand...

Oil rigs basically have near zero dust, dirt or grit like media now do they?

Compared to dry south Texas with trees in the yard cutting half dirt and weeds. Dust cloud fogs out the entire block..... Come on guys!!! "Brandon Biden"

And the one about foam blocking leaves and sticks only. LOL

Thankfully we haven't had any K&N filter lovers on here yet.

slomo said:

Oil rigs basically have near zero dust, dirt or grit like media now do they?

Compared to dry south Texas with trees in the yard cutting half dirt and weeds. Dust cloud fogs out the entire block..... Come on guys!!! "Brandon Biden"

And the one about foam blocking leaves and sticks only. LOL

Thankfully we haven't had any K&N filter lovers on here yet.

Click to expand...

Spot on Sir, same here in Ga, one only has to look at where the breather is on a farm tractor, up high above the engine, let's call it snorkel. Only way to escape the dirt it to get up above it. Cheers, Ray

I sure hope those that voted for Biden are having a hard time paying for gas... Go Brandon !!!!!!!!.......

I dont believe I wrote anything having to do with oil rigs and dirt. And, actually the foam pre-cleaner is primarily to help keep leaves and such out of the filter pleats. Who ever mentioned that was spot on. For those that feel better oiling their foam, go for it! It is not recommended by the engine manufacturers, unless you see it in the owners manual. Which you won't in Kawasaki manuals.

txmowman said:

I dont believe I wrote anything having to do with oil rigs and dirt

Click to expand...

Okay sir.

We were all having a group gripe session about air filters when you chimed in.

After rereading what you wrote, you mentioned nothing about air filters.

You are correct. You said nothing about oil rigs and dirt.

RayMcD said:

Spot on Sir, same here in Ga, one only has to look at where the breather is on a farm tractor, up high above the engine, let's call it snorkel. Only way to escape the dirt it to get up above it. Cheers, Ray

I sure hope those that voted for Biden are having a hard time paying for gas... Go Brandon !!!!!!!!.......

Click to expand...

And drive trucks with 40 gallon tanks too LOL. Crazy.....

Oh, I apologize. I thought this was a help and information forum, didn't know it was a gripe session. Nothing to be learned by griping. I'll be on my way. Thanks, "experts".

Txmowman, don’t let an Okie like slomo drive you away. He’s eaten so much dust, he no longer likes it dry. You are correct, don’t oil a foam filter. As I’ve stated before oil; clogs pleated filters, shortens filter life, causes rich running conditions, etc.

txmowman said:

Oh, I apologize. I thought this was a help and information forum, didn't know it was a gripe session. Nothing to be learned by griping. I'll be on my way. Thanks, "experts".

Click to expand...

I apologized to you. Don't know what you are mad about?? Have a good one.

Rivets said:

Txmowman, don’t let an Okie like slomo drive you away. He’s eaten so much dust, he no longer likes it dry. You are correct, don’t oil a foam filter. As I’ve stated before oil; clogs pleated filters, shortens filter life, causes rich running conditions, etc.

Click to expand...

Lets get all dramatic here LOL. Oil clogging filters, good one. My oiled foam keeps the paper way cleaner and longer than a dry foam or no foam condition.

I will say adding a dry foam pre filter is better than running a paper filter only. Anything you can do to stop dirt. Better than adding 30w or UNI filter oil, definitely not.

I’m with @slomo
You all can do as you please. I will continue to oil my pre-filter. There is not any oil getting on to the paper element of my mower.

well, we all can agree that dust is a pain. Here in CA some areas it carries Valley Fever so running around in the dust can kill you. Any dust with lots of silica particles can cause other lung diseases. I think mowing a day after rain or watering might be healthiest.

slomo said:

Thankfully we haven't had any K&N filter lovers on here yet.

Click to expand...

I run K&N's on my Harleys... Not my mowers..

MParr said:

FR691V
Good. Yes, get you a foam pre-filter. It’s washable with dish soap and warm water. Some folks like to use a foam filter oil on the pre-filter. You can get that at your parts store or motorcycle shop. Always spray lightly on a clean dry foam filter. You will still need to clean the paper element periodically. Refer to your manual. Compressed air can damage the paper element. A leaf blower works much better. Blow from the inside to the outside.

Click to expand...

Good idea on the leaf blower, thanks!!

Oiling the foam prefilter will not hurt it
It just makes it harder to clean and at worst can restrict the air flow so much that the engine can run rich .
As for removing the filter to tap or blow it out .
I am not in favour of doing that as the seal between almost all mower filters & the housings is poor and I find a lot of filters that have been leaking around the seal , particularly the ones that are open at both ends and the square panel filters used on push mowers
So my rule is "if I have to remove the filter, then replace it " and that is universal regardless of weather it is a $50,000 professional ride on or a $ 50 line trimmer .
Filters are cheap & easy to replace . Rings are a lot more expensive to replace .

Makes sense. Thanks

bertsmobile1 said:

I can not see why fitting an air filter that is available as an add on option to the mower when new would be illegal
But then I can never see any sense in most of what governments do particularly EPA's yours or ours
I can not reproduce & post my Feb 2022 wholesale kawasaki price if I want to keep selling them but the difference in price I pay from my distributor for the FX 691v to the FR 691v is $970 ( Aus)
Add my 30% mark up +10% GST on top of that and it comes out at $ 1387 to the customer which used to be more than $ 1000 when I went to school
I am expecting an update to that price list as that wholesaler just added 9.5% across the board to all prices as of July 1 which is the beginning of our financial year .
I can fit the double element Donaldson for just under $ 300 or the single element Enginaire for just under $ 200 and both of those prices include the air flow meters to tell you when to change the filter so you don't damage the soft sealing faces checking to see if a good filter needs replacing .

I presume you are a technician of some sort so I would ask how many old Sprint engines come in with next to nothing of the foam filter left in the housings
And how many of the leave working fine with an oil change & a new filter fitted ?
Now for an all alloy bore things would be different.
FWIW Kawasaki use a soft bore and hard rings so the cross hatching wears off quickly after which the rings can no longer maintain a good seal to the bore .

Click to expand...

That cross hatch is in order to help the piston rings “seat” or wear into the cylinder. They are no longer needed after the rings seat.

slomo said:

Oil rigs basically have near zero dust, dirt or grit like media now do they?

Compared to dry south Texas with trees in the yard cutting half dirt and weeds. Dust cloud fogs out the entire block..... Come on guys!!! "Brandon Biden"

And the one about foam blocking leaves and sticks only. LOL

Thankfully we haven't had any K&N filter lovers on here yet.

Click to expand...

I have K & N filters on all of my motorcycles. I clean and oil when needed.

CJSNIDER said:

That cross hatch is in order to help the piston rings “seat” or wear into the cylinder. They are no longer needed after the rings seat.

Click to expand...

Totally wrong
The cross hatch fills with oil and actually helps the rings make a seal
It is also a good indication of wear in the bore
Remember these are mower engines with castiron linners and cast iron rings not a chrome plated bore with steel rings ( although in that case the micro cracking in the chrome holds the oil ).

bertsmobile1 said:

IF you were ever taught about compressed air safety then you would have been told never to blow it on your skin because it will blow tiny tiny water droplets right through your skin
For the same reason you should never used compressed air to blow out a paper filter as any water droplets ( and there always will be ) will blast holes through the filter

Click to expand...

Not to mention most lack dehydrators on their air compressors. So moist humid air is always leaving the nozzle.

CJSNIDER said:

I have K & N filters on all of my motorcycles. I clean and oil when needed.

Click to expand...

Run what you like.

Remove a Ken and Nancy filter after using it on dusty trails. Look inside the intake manifold. You will be able to wipe with your finger, a grit trail that leads into the engine. Seen it many times with K&N filters. And BTW, they offer 0 performance gains unless the OEM design was compromised. Never seen a vehicle that the front wheels would never touch the ground with those filters installed. Waste of money IMO. On Jeeps and the like, seen this grit get past K&N filters several times. Videos on youtube as well on it. Then there is the micron sized grit that gets into the engine we can talk about...... Not a fan.

Run what you like.