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Strange sound when turn key
#1
R
rigoletto
R
rigoletto
People,
1) Old MTD riding mower (1998) I turn the key to start and hear a whining sound coming from (it seems) the solenoid. New battery. I jumped it with battery cables and started fine otherwise (neg cable on neg terminal, pos cable on pos terminal, other end neg cable clamped onto frame, then touch red pos cable to starter terminal).
Any idea why Im getting this high pitched whining sound from solenoid? I cant see where else the sound would come from.
2) Same mower- when I have the deck blades set on highest cut level blades turn at a certain speed, but when I drop the blades one notch lower for some reason the engine/blades speed up! Why?
Tips appreciated.
1) Old MTD riding mower (1998) I turn the key to start and hear a whining sound coming from (it seems) the solenoid. New battery. I jumped it with battery cables and started fine otherwise (neg cable on neg terminal, pos cable on pos terminal, other end neg cable clamped onto frame, then touch red pos cable to starter terminal).
Any idea why Im getting this high pitched whining sound from solenoid? I cant see where else the sound would come from.
2) Same mower- when I have the deck blades set on highest cut level blades turn at a certain speed, but when I drop the blades one notch lower for some reason the engine/blades speed up! Why?
Tips appreciated.
#2
S
shiftsuper175607
No, could the sound be coming from somewhere else? say, the starter?
Try a smaller (12 ga) wire from the pos side of battery to the trigger connection on the solenoid(to operate the solenoid) and see if it starts.
S
shiftsuper175607
People,
1) Old MTD riding mower (1998) I turn the key to start and hear a whining sound coming from (it seems) the solenoid. New battery. I jumped it with battery cables and started fine otherwise (neg cable on neg terminal, pos cable on pos terminal, other end neg cable clamped onto frame, then touch red pos cable to starter terminal).
Any idea why Im getting this high pitched whining sound from solenoid? I cant see where else the sound would come from.
2) Same mower- when I have the deck blades set on highest cut level blades turn at a certain speed, but when I drop the blades one notch lower for some reason the engine/blades speed up! Why?
Tips appreciated.
No, could the sound be coming from somewhere else? say, the starter?
Try a smaller (12 ga) wire from the pos side of battery to the trigger connection on the solenoid(to operate the solenoid) and see if it starts.
#3
B
bertsmobile1
Run a jumper from the battery - to the engine near the starter
Engine cranks fine = faulty ground ( bad wire & /or corroded contact ).
B
bertsmobile1
People,
1) Old MTD riding mower (1998) I turn the key to start and hear a whining sound coming from (it seems) the solenoid. New battery. I jumped it with battery cables and started fine otherwise (neg cable on neg terminal, pos cable on pos terminal, other end neg cable clamped onto frame, then touch red pos cable to starter terminal).
Any idea why Im getting this high pitched whining sound from solenoid? I cant see where else the sound would come from.
2) Same mower- when I have the deck blades set on highest cut level blades turn at a certain speed, but when I drop the blades one notch lower for some reason the engine/blades speed up! Why?
Tips appreciated.
Run a jumper from the battery - to the engine near the starter
Engine cranks fine = faulty ground ( bad wire & /or corroded contact ).
#4
R
rigoletto
R
rigoletto
Wow- good tips, people. I will follow up and let yous know asap...........
What about the idea of blades turning faster when lowered just one notch?
What about the idea of blades turning faster when lowered just one notch?
#5
S
shiftsuper175607
That's a hard one...one possibility is that belt is slipping at higher position...but that seems very remote as blades speed up they should continue to...until at full speed, even at higher position.
The belt is running on the same pulleys and there should be no change in speed of blades at any position change.
S
shiftsuper175607
Wow- good tips, people. I will follow up and let yous know asap...........
What about the idea of blades turning faster when lowered just one notch?
That's a hard one...one possibility is that belt is slipping at higher position...but that seems very remote as blades speed up they should continue to...until at full speed, even at higher position.
The belt is running on the same pulleys and there should be no change in speed of blades at any position change.
#6
R
rigoletto
Ok, makes sense to me too. I just wanted to throw it out there for feedback. I will keep an eye on it for further clues.........
R
rigoletto
That's a hard one...one possibility is that belt is slipping at higher position...but that seems very remote as blades speed up they should continue to...until at full speed, even at higher position.
The belt is running on the same pulleys and there should be no change in speed of blades at any position change.
Ok, makes sense to me too. I just wanted to throw it out there for feedback. I will keep an eye on it for further clues.........
#7
B
bertsmobile1
Fairly simple reasoning and fix but a real PIA to do.
Mower is 20 years old
All of the linkages that hold & move the deck will be worn.
Decks do not go strait up & down any more they swing in an arc so changing the distance between the engine pulley & deck pulley.
That is one reason why there is a spring pulling against the belt.
So the fix is to pull all for the links out restore all the holes to round again and build up all the rods.
Where springs have been anchoured the metal will have worn thus weakening the spring so these need attention as well.
Then we get to wear on the pulleys themselves and of course worn belts.
B
bertsmobile1
Wow- good tips, people. I will follow up and let yous know asap...........
What about the idea of blades turning faster when lowered just one notch?
Fairly simple reasoning and fix but a real PIA to do.
Mower is 20 years old
All of the linkages that hold & move the deck will be worn.
Decks do not go strait up & down any more they swing in an arc so changing the distance between the engine pulley & deck pulley.
That is one reason why there is a spring pulling against the belt.
So the fix is to pull all for the links out restore all the holes to round again and build up all the rods.
Where springs have been anchoured the metal will have worn thus weakening the spring so these need attention as well.
Then we get to wear on the pulleys themselves and of course worn belts.
#8
R
rigoletto
Thanks, Bert! I should mention that it is a MTD 13A4667 F118. Meanwhile, I did some poking around under thew deck, raising it/lowering it and at top notch height the belt is slackish. When lowered to next notch it appears to tighten up a bit. Could a belt be stretched from age? That would be the culprit to me.
Also, is that called the "V" belt? Something else? "mower blade belt"?
R
rigoletto
Fairly simple reasoning and fix but a real PIA to do.
Mower is 20 years old
All of the linkages that hold & move the deck will be worn.
Decks do not go strait up & down any more they swing in an arc so changing the distance between the engine pulley & deck pulley.
That is one reason why there is a spring pulling against the belt.
So the fix is to pull all for the links out restore all the holes to round again and build up all the rods.
Where springs have been anchoured the metal will have worn thus weakening the spring so these need attention as well.
Then we get to wear on the pulleys themselves and of course worn belts.
Thanks, Bert! I should mention that it is a MTD 13A4667 F118. Meanwhile, I did some poking around under thew deck, raising it/lowering it and at top notch height the belt is slackish. When lowered to next notch it appears to tighten up a bit. Could a belt be stretched from age? That would be the culprit to me.
Also, is that called the "V" belt? Something else? "mower blade belt"?
#9
S
shiftsuper175607
Bertmobile1 tells you the problem and the fix in his reply to you before your last post.
Belts are made with cording inside them so they don't stretch.
S
shiftsuper175607
Thanks, Bert! I should mention that it is a MTD 13A4667 F118. Meanwhile, I did some poking around under thew deck, raising it/lowering it and at top notch height the belt is slackish. When lowered to next notch it appears to tighten up a bit. Could a belt be stretched from age? That would be the culprit to me.
Also, is that called the "V" belt? Something else? "mower blade belt"?
Bertmobile1 tells you the problem and the fix in his reply to you before your last post.
Belts are made with cording inside them so they don't stretch.
#10
R
rigoletto
Yes, I did appreciate Bert's post (and yours). Just wanted to rule out the idea of a stretched belt before tackling a big resto project.
R
rigoletto
Bertmobile1 tells you the problem and the fix in his reply to you before your last post.
Belts are made with cording inside them so they don't stretch.
Yes, I did appreciate Bert's post (and yours). Just wanted to rule out the idea of a stretched belt before tackling a big resto project.
#11
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
As Shifter mentioned, mower belts barely stretch, the wear thin on the sides so sit deeper in the pulley & go loose.
In a mower of that age all the deck mounts will be substantially worn and despite the fact that they take your jaw off when you remove them, the springs will have weakened.
This is your deck lift mechanism https://www.partstree.com/parts/mtd/mowers-lawn-garden-tractor/13a4667f118-yard-machines-lawn-tractor-1998-sam-s-club/deck-lift-hanger-assembly/
The spring part # 45 is what puts tension on your belt via the movement of the deck engagement lever part # 40.
When the blades are in the dissengaged position the spring is stretched and 20 years of you leaving the mower with the blades dissengaged means that spring has been sitting with that spring stretched.
However as previously mentioned look at the myramid of links & shafts and don't overlook the holes on the deck itself.
In a mower of that age all the deck mounts will be substantially worn and despite the fact that they take your jaw off when you remove them, the springs will have weakened.
This is your deck lift mechanism https://www.partstree.com/parts/mtd/mowers-lawn-garden-tractor/13a4667f118-yard-machines-lawn-tractor-1998-sam-s-club/deck-lift-hanger-assembly/
The spring part # 45 is what puts tension on your belt via the movement of the deck engagement lever part # 40.
When the blades are in the dissengaged position the spring is stretched and 20 years of you leaving the mower with the blades dissengaged means that spring has been sitting with that spring stretched.
However as previously mentioned look at the myramid of links & shafts and don't overlook the holes on the deck itself.
#12
R
rigoletto
Wow- that's what I was going to ask you, Bert, where I need to begin to do restoration. That diagram sure helps. perhaps new springs, which are suspect, can be ordered, and replaced, I will let you know asap! Going to poke around down there today, if it doesnt rain........
R
rigoletto
As Shifter mentioned, mower belts barely stretch, the wear thin on the sides so sit deeper in the pulley & go loose.
In a mower of that age all the deck mounts will be substantially worn and despite the fact that they take your jaw off when you remove them, the springs will have weakened.
This is your deck lift mechanism https://www.partstree.com/parts/mtd/mowers-lawn-garden-tractor/13a4667f118-yard-machines-lawn-tractor-1998-sam-s-club/deck-lift-hanger-assembly/
The spring part # 45 is what puts tension on your belt via the movement of the deck engagement lever part # 40.
When the blades are in the dissengaged position the spring is stretched and 20 years of you leaving the mower with the blades dissengaged means that spring has been sitting with that spring stretched.
However as previously mentioned look at the myramid of links & shafts and don't overlook the holes on the deck itself.
Wow- that's what I was going to ask you, Bert, where I need to begin to do restoration. That diagram sure helps. perhaps new springs, which are suspect, can be ordered, and replaced, I will let you know asap! Going to poke around down there today, if it doesnt rain........
#13
R
rigoletto
R
rigoletto
OK, after spending some time observing the levers/springs/pins as one lifts/lowers the main lever that controls the height of the mowing I learned something.
I understand now that when the deck is in "STOP" (farthest position toward the driver) the deck is shifted FORWARD, releasing pressure on the belt. Then , as you lower the deck to mow the lever system first advances the deck BACK to tighten the belt so it can engage the blades' pulleys to turn, then drops down for lower cut settings.
I discovered that as you move the notch from STOP position the belt does not tighten (does not engage blades to turn) until AFTER it passes the 1st cut notch (highest cut setting) and only engages the blades (gets tight) on the SECOND notch. . That is my problem! Can one adjust this? Springs seem tight(?). I guess I could always but that spring #45 on the diagram.
I cant remember how it behaved when new. But I dont remember having a problem cutting at the highest notch. Am I on the right track, people?
Anyway, feedback appreciated.
I understand now that when the deck is in "STOP" (farthest position toward the driver) the deck is shifted FORWARD, releasing pressure on the belt. Then , as you lower the deck to mow the lever system first advances the deck BACK to tighten the belt so it can engage the blades' pulleys to turn, then drops down for lower cut settings.
I discovered that as you move the notch from STOP position the belt does not tighten (does not engage blades to turn) until AFTER it passes the 1st cut notch (highest cut setting) and only engages the blades (gets tight) on the SECOND notch. . That is my problem! Can one adjust this? Springs seem tight(?). I guess I could always but that spring #45 on the diagram.
I cant remember how it behaved when new. But I dont remember having a problem cutting at the highest notch. Am I on the right track, people?
Anyway, feedback appreciated.
#14
B
bertsmobile1
The two most important tools you already have.
Eyes & a brain.
So lay alongside the mower while some one moves the deck slowly through all cutting heights , back & forth.
Watch closely the movement between the dissengage position & the highest cut position.
Because the engage lever works backwards ( against the spring ) to what you are expecting it is a little confusing.
Inside the dash, tower, turret, whatever you want to call it there should be an adjuster connected to the deck lever.
They are next to impossible to get to and many are difficult to adjust because the original mower had a much smaller engine.
You might get away with an adjustment .
If you have the gear or know a welder who enjoys a "free drink" then all the ovaled holes can be welded & remade.
Some of the worst links can be replaced
The plate at the back with the 2 rods running through it usually wears the worst.
A piece of thick angle iron welded / bolted to the inside of the lips both sides is the easiest fix.
Good thing is you are ending your mowing season so you can spend some quality time with your mower in the shed.
Those old mower deck lifts are complicated but all the bits are easy to fix and a lot of them are still available
B
bertsmobile1
Wow- that's what I was going to ask you, Bert, where I need to begin to do restoration. That diagram sure helps. perhaps new springs, which are suspect, can be ordered, and replaced, I will let you know asap! Going to poke around down there today, if it doesnt rain........
The two most important tools you already have.
Eyes & a brain.
So lay alongside the mower while some one moves the deck slowly through all cutting heights , back & forth.
Watch closely the movement between the dissengage position & the highest cut position.
Because the engage lever works backwards ( against the spring ) to what you are expecting it is a little confusing.
Inside the dash, tower, turret, whatever you want to call it there should be an adjuster connected to the deck lever.
They are next to impossible to get to and many are difficult to adjust because the original mower had a much smaller engine.
You might get away with an adjustment .
If you have the gear or know a welder who enjoys a "free drink" then all the ovaled holes can be welded & remade.
Some of the worst links can be replaced
The plate at the back with the 2 rods running through it usually wears the worst.
A piece of thick angle iron welded / bolted to the inside of the lips both sides is the easiest fix.
Good thing is you are ending your mowing season so you can spend some quality time with your mower in the shed.
Those old mower deck lifts are complicated but all the bits are easy to fix and a lot of them are still available
#15
R
rigoletto
R
rigoletto
Thanks for the continued support and advice, Bert. Based on your last post it looks like this might be a bit too much for me- Im OK with changing 2 springs, although, I imagine that has got to be even harder than doing springs on auto shoe brakes. Welding, etc etc- Yikes. I learned much here, will see where to go now. Hate to settle for cutting at the second notch, as it is too low. Butchers my lawn.
#16
B
bertsmobile1
Start with locating the adjuster and adjusting it.
If there is no joy then the cheats way is to fit a smaller belt.
The problem with that is a shorter belt can prevent the blades dissengaging so then you have to go back and readjust.
Most of the linkages are still available.
B
bertsmobile1
Thanks for the continued support and advice, Bert. Based on your last post it looks like this might be a bit too much for me- Im OK with changing 2 springs, although, I imagine that has got to be even harder than doing springs on auto shoe brakes. Welding, etc etc- Yikes. I learned much here, will see where to go now. Hate to settle for cutting at the second notch, as it is too low. Butchers my lawn.
Start with locating the adjuster and adjusting it.
If there is no joy then the cheats way is to fit a smaller belt.
The problem with that is a shorter belt can prevent the blades dissengaging so then you have to go back and readjust.
Most of the linkages are still available.
#17
R
rigoletto
I found the adjuster rod, Bert!! It is a rod (#71) the "speed control link",about 1/4" thick, with as thread on the end which has a kind of round-ish nut (ferrule #109) which determines at what point the main lever engages the blades!
This is going to be fun! Give me a day or so and I will get back to you on this! (Forgive my enthusiasm, as there is not much excitement going on right now here....)
R
rigoletto
Start with locating the adjuster and adjusting it.
If there is no joy then the cheats way is to fit a smaller belt.
The problem with that is a shorter belt can prevent the blades dissengaging so then you have to go back and readjust.
Most of the linkages are still available.
I found the adjuster rod, Bert!! It is a rod (#71) the "speed control link",about 1/4" thick, with as thread on the end which has a kind of round-ish nut (ferrule #109) which determines at what point the main lever engages the blades!
This is going to be fun! Give me a day or so and I will get back to you on this! (Forgive my enthusiasm, as there is not much excitement going on right now here....)
#18
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Take your time, watch what is happening as the lever is pulled.
Then of course hang by the rafters trying get to the adjuster.
Then of course hang by the rafters trying get to the adjuster.
#19
R
rigoletto
R
rigoletto
Yipee!! (sorry for delay, been too busy). I fixed it, Bert!! Yup. loosened the back end of that rod, and turned it until the ferrule sat just right so as to allow the lever to sit at the higher cutting level! Wow- no new springs, etc. Wonder how it ever got to that point(?). 20 years, I suppose, it creeped up on me. Anyway, that mower still works well, as far as Im concerned. Why buy new.
Big thanks, Bert. I know youre a busy guy.
Big thanks, Bert. I know youre a busy guy.
#20
B
bertsmobile1
Over time all f those rods & holes that are always under tension from the spring and vibrating against each other will wear.
Deep down in the owners handbook will be a diagram that makes no sense at all showing an oil can on these linkages.
No one ever oils them & they slowly wear.
You don't notice that your grass is slowly being cut lower and the clippings do not throw as far till like you, the deck fails to cut at the top setting.
Sort of like looking in a mirror and actually seeing yourself as an old man.
A can of white spray grease applied to everywhere that has t pieces of metal bearing on each other will work wonders.
As you have now worked out the deck lever sort of works backwards to how you think it would.
Glad to hear you got it sorted.
Whenever the belt is changed that adjuster is supposed to be moved then tightened up each season but no one does it.
B
bertsmobile1
Yipee!! (sorry for delay, been too busy). I fixed it, Bert!! Yup. loosened the back end of that rod, and turned it until the ferrule sat just right so as to allow the lever to sit at the higher cutting level! Wow- no new springs, etc. Wonder how it ever got to that point(?). 20 years, I suppose, it creeped up on me. Anyway, that mower still works well, as far as Im concerned. Why buy new.
Big thanks, Bert. I know youre a busy guy.
Over time all f those rods & holes that are always under tension from the spring and vibrating against each other will wear.
Deep down in the owners handbook will be a diagram that makes no sense at all showing an oil can on these linkages.
No one ever oils them & they slowly wear.
You don't notice that your grass is slowly being cut lower and the clippings do not throw as far till like you, the deck fails to cut at the top setting.
Sort of like looking in a mirror and actually seeing yourself as an old man.
A can of white spray grease applied to everywhere that has t pieces of metal bearing on each other will work wonders.
As you have now worked out the deck lever sort of works backwards to how you think it would.
Glad to hear you got it sorted.
Whenever the belt is changed that adjuster is supposed to be moved then tightened up each season but no one does it.
#21
R
rigoletto
R
rigoletto
Good to know all this stuff. Right- no one ever does it (oiling/greasing). I just do the gear teeth at bottom of steering column. But just doesnt seem to ever last long enough. Soon enough, it is bare dry metal again. Sheesh...........