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Stihl hl 100 cutting out when hot
#1
R
robmar0se
R
robmar0se
As a newbie appreciate advice on my Stihl HL100.
As I say its cutting out, and initial thoughts it might be the ignition coil (air filter is clean).
the stampted on part nos are 4180 1305 A (2nd line MC 4180 B?), (3rd line JC 202 x) - numbers aren't clear. On the underside its says stihl ipi2000
cant find this part no but I see thtat for the HL100, 4180 400 1308 is often mentioned will this part be okay?
As I say its cutting out, and initial thoughts it might be the ignition coil (air filter is clean).
the stampted on part nos are 4180 1305 A (2nd line MC 4180 B?), (3rd line JC 202 x) - numbers aren't clear. On the underside its says stihl ipi2000
cant find this part no but I see thtat for the HL100, 4180 400 1308 is often mentioned will this part be okay?
#2
Fish
Fish
I doubt it, it looks like it is a unique coil to the hedge trimmers.
4249 400 1300 | |
#3
StarTech
StarTech
The HL100 used the 4180 400 1300 which has gone through several upgrades and this included the 4180 400 1305 coil. They all are superseded to the 4180 400 1308 coil which has a speed limit of 10,200 rpm.
When ran as hedge trimmer they were fitted with 4249 400 1301 from serial number 288214001 the same ignition module with a governor speed of 9,500 rpm is fitted on HL 90 K, HL 100 and HL 100 K as well.
But to answer the OP his coil is the 4180 400 1305 and yes the 4180 400 1308 is the correct replacement coil. But before replacing the coil check the RPM at full throttle as it may be hitting the speed limiter.
Reference Stihl TI 07.2014
When ran as hedge trimmer they were fitted with 4249 400 1301 from serial number 288214001 the same ignition module with a governor speed of 9,500 rpm is fitted on HL 90 K, HL 100 and HL 100 K as well.
But to answer the OP his coil is the 4180 400 1305 and yes the 4180 400 1308 is the correct replacement coil. But before replacing the coil check the RPM at full throttle as it may be hitting the speed limiter.
Reference Stihl TI 07.2014
#4
R
robmar0se
R
robmar0se
Thank you, best to have got a second opinionThe HL100 used the 4180 400 1300 which has gone through several upgrades and this included the 4180 400 1305 coil. They all are superseded to the 4180 400 1308 coil which has a speed limit of 10,200 rpm.
When ran as hedge trimmer they were fitted with 4249 400 1301 from serial number 288214001 the same ignition module with a governor speed of 9,500 rpm is fitted on HL 90 K, HL 100 and HL 100 K as well.
But to answer the OP his coil is the 4180 400 1305 and yes the 4180 400 1308 is the correct replacement coil. But before replacing the coil check the RPM at full throttle as it may be hitting the speed limiter.
Reference Stihl TI 07.2014
#5
StarTech
StarTech
I just got the service info recently here myself as I just repair my first HL100. What a mess. Not only did the customer had carburetor problems the clutch was rusted up from it sitting outdoors.
Also don't forget to check the valve clearance. They are set at .004" Cold. Install new valve cover gasket after setting clearances.
Also don't forget to check the valve clearance. They are set at .004" Cold. Install new valve cover gasket after setting clearances.
#6
R
robmar0se
R
robmar0se
Many thanks folks
installed new coil, but still have the same problem!!! It is cutting out when in use, starts okay.
It appears to work fine on bench both at idle, and at higher revs. I conclude that it is cutting out when twisting/rotating the trimmer in use (air filter has been cleaned).
So is it a fuel/air issue? The obvious thing to do is to replace the fuel filter which I will do, other than that would I be right to think the carb needs a clean. Ideas?
PS I haven't replaced the spark plug, but it looks fine, light grey colour as one would expect.
Thanks
installed new coil, but still have the same problem!!! It is cutting out when in use, starts okay.
It appears to work fine on bench both at idle, and at higher revs. I conclude that it is cutting out when twisting/rotating the trimmer in use (air filter has been cleaned).
So is it a fuel/air issue? The obvious thing to do is to replace the fuel filter which I will do, other than that would I be right to think the carb needs a clean. Ideas?
PS I haven't replaced the spark plug, but it looks fine, light grey colour as one would expect.
Thanks
#7
StarTech
StarTech
If it is cutting out because turning the trimmer on it sides then it is likely the crankshaft seals and bearing. But have you adjusted the valves?
Inlet valve = 0.10 +- 0.02 mm
Exhaust valve = 0.10 +- 0.02 mm
.10mm = .004"
Inlet valve = 0.10 +- 0.02 mm
Exhaust valve = 0.10 +- 0.02 mm
.10mm = .004"
#8
R
robmar0se
R
robmar0se
Thanks for your reply.
My ability to start fiddling with valve clearances is beyond me. however I am trying to understand the logic of how your diagnosis results in cutting out when the item is not on an even keel/under stress; incidentally it doesn't cut out immediately, it stutters, recovers, then stutters again, may be happens a 2/3 times in short order before finally stuttering to a stop. I would have thought if it was valves/seals it would sound quite rough when running on the bench?
Having seen the price of engine parts, it might be stretch too far for a 13 year old trimmer, especially as moving later this year so wont need it beyond this year!
Appreciate your opinion, thank you for posting your input.
My ability to start fiddling with valve clearances is beyond me. however I am trying to understand the logic of how your diagnosis results in cutting out when the item is not on an even keel/under stress; incidentally it doesn't cut out immediately, it stutters, recovers, then stutters again, may be happens a 2/3 times in short order before finally stuttering to a stop. I would have thought if it was valves/seals it would sound quite rough when running on the bench?
Having seen the price of engine parts, it might be stretch too far for a 13 year old trimmer, especially as moving later this year so wont need it beyond this year!
Appreciate your opinion, thank you for posting your input.
#9
StarTech
First on these 4 mix engine (hybrid 4 cycle engine) the crankcase is part of the intake system. With seals on the crankshaft they wear one sided in the most used position and harden so as the ball bearing develop play it allow the crankshaft move off center. As the engine is rotated around it allows the crankshaft to open up the seal, creating both a vacuum and pressure air leakage. The engine will lean out causing problems from a surging as the area opens and closes to an engine dying from fuel starvation. The crankshaft seals should be done by a confident 2 cycle tech as the engine must nearly fully disassembled.
This type seal wear happens even larger mower engines. I have inspected seals that I removed leaking oil that are worn one sided and harden. Just replacing the seals most times fixes the oil leaks.
Similar thing happen with the valves out adjustment as the engine can no longer properly breathe. And this adjustment requires a 1/8 wide .004" feeler gauge. The adjustment itself is quite simple though you should replace the cork rocker cover gasket at the time of the adjustment.
StarTech
Not necessarily my old Husqvarna 36 would not act up until I was actually cutting up a fallen tree.My ability to start fiddling with valve clearances is beyond me. however I am trying to understand the logic of how your diagnosis results in cutting out when the item is not on an even keel/under stress; incidentally it doesn't cut out immediately, it stutters, recovers, then stutters again, may be happens a 2/3 times in short order before finally stuttering to a stop. I would have thought if it was valves/seals it would sound quite rough when running on the bench?
First on these 4 mix engine (hybrid 4 cycle engine) the crankcase is part of the intake system. With seals on the crankshaft they wear one sided in the most used position and harden so as the ball bearing develop play it allow the crankshaft move off center. As the engine is rotated around it allows the crankshaft to open up the seal, creating both a vacuum and pressure air leakage. The engine will lean out causing problems from a surging as the area opens and closes to an engine dying from fuel starvation. The crankshaft seals should be done by a confident 2 cycle tech as the engine must nearly fully disassembled.
This type seal wear happens even larger mower engines. I have inspected seals that I removed leaking oil that are worn one sided and harden. Just replacing the seals most times fixes the oil leaks.
Similar thing happen with the valves out adjustment as the engine can no longer properly breathe. And this adjustment requires a 1/8 wide .004" feeler gauge. The adjustment itself is quite simple though you should replace the cork rocker cover gasket at the time of the adjustment.
#10
Fish
Fish
Likely a fuel line issue.
#11
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
I you want to diagnose it there are two fairly simple things to do
1) fill the tank right up to the top of the filler neck then go trim
Problem goes away till the tank is say 1/2 empty then you have a fuel line problem
2) buy a red inline spark tester fit it , tie it out of the way then go trim
Watch it when the engines starts to play up
If it keeps on flashing the same while the engine is missing then the coil is working fine .
Note this does not confirm the spark is timed properly, just that it is happening .
Most times bad seals on a 2 stroke manifest themselves by the engine being near impossible to start if it has been sitting unused for a couple of weeks but once started it will start & run fine but be low in power and reving at the wrong speeds (usually to fast ) for the throttle position .
A classic sign is continually having to wind the throttle stop open to maintain an idle because it is sucking air through the seals & not the carb.
You can only confirm this by doing a crankcase pressure / vacuum test
To do this you need both a 2 way pump , blanking plates , an input spiggot ( usually through the spark plug hole ) plus a fair bit of time & skill.
I charge 1 hour to do these test for customers and many times that would be a loss as some are really difficult to access .
However when presented with a machine like yours I follow the proceedures shown in the Joe Pace videos and start with the tank & cap, fixing each & every problem as I come across them .
Not uncommon to find a bad fuel cap, bad tank vent, leaking fuel line , leaking fuel grommet & partially blocked fuel filter , before you get to a varnished up cab with a blocked internal filter .
People seadfastly refuse to maintain hand held 2 stroke tools .
This is not helped by most of the owners manuals having wrong or no long term storage information even if the owner is one of the 2% who actually read it before they start using the tool.
1) fill the tank right up to the top of the filler neck then go trim
Problem goes away till the tank is say 1/2 empty then you have a fuel line problem
2) buy a red inline spark tester fit it , tie it out of the way then go trim
Watch it when the engines starts to play up
If it keeps on flashing the same while the engine is missing then the coil is working fine .
Note this does not confirm the spark is timed properly, just that it is happening .
Most times bad seals on a 2 stroke manifest themselves by the engine being near impossible to start if it has been sitting unused for a couple of weeks but once started it will start & run fine but be low in power and reving at the wrong speeds (usually to fast ) for the throttle position .
A classic sign is continually having to wind the throttle stop open to maintain an idle because it is sucking air through the seals & not the carb.
You can only confirm this by doing a crankcase pressure / vacuum test
To do this you need both a 2 way pump , blanking plates , an input spiggot ( usually through the spark plug hole ) plus a fair bit of time & skill.
I charge 1 hour to do these test for customers and many times that would be a loss as some are really difficult to access .
However when presented with a machine like yours I follow the proceedures shown in the Joe Pace videos and start with the tank & cap, fixing each & every problem as I come across them .
Not uncommon to find a bad fuel cap, bad tank vent, leaking fuel line , leaking fuel grommet & partially blocked fuel filter , before you get to a varnished up cab with a blocked internal filter .
People seadfastly refuse to maintain hand held 2 stroke tools .
This is not helped by most of the owners manuals having wrong or no long term storage information even if the owner is one of the 2% who actually read it before they start using the tool.
#12
R
robmar0se
Lets hope its not the crankshaft!
I will write a separate report on my misadventure with changing the fuel filter - below!!
R
robmar0se
Thank you for the explanation, makes a lot more sense.Not necessarily my old Husqvarna 36 would not act up until I was actually cutting up a fallen tree.
First on these 4 mix engine (hybrid 4 cycle engine) the crankcase is part of the intake system. With seals on the crankshaft they wear one sided in the most used position and harden so as the ball bearing develop play it allow the crankshaft move off center. As the engine is rotated around it allows the crankshaft to open up the seal, creating both a vacuum and pressure air leakage. The engine will lean out causing problems from a surging as the area opens and closes to an engine dying from fuel starvation. The crankshaft seals should be done by a confident 2 cycle tech as the engine must nearly fully disassembled.
This type seal wear happens even larger mower engines. I have inspected seals that I removed leaking oil that are worn one sided and harden. Just replacing the seals most times fixes the oil leaks.
Similar thing happen with the valves out adjustment as the engine can no longer properly breathe. And this adjustment requires a 1/8 wide .004" feeler gauge. The adjustment itself is quite simple though you should replace the cork rocker cover gasket at the time of the adjustment.
Lets hope its not the crankshaft!
I will write a separate report on my misadventure with changing the fuel filter - below!!
#13
R
robmar0se
Today I replaced the spark plug and fuel filter - now it wont start at all (unless I inject fuel direct into the cylinder).
What I did first was the turn upside down and drain the fuel.. I hooked the fuel filter out and carefully removed the old one and push fit the new one. Refuel the tank.
There was still fuel in the primer cone, however on pressing a number of times the fuel left the cone (which I guess is right), but wouldn't refresh, all I get was a squeaking noise, irresepctive of whether the fuel cap was on or off.. Having watched Craig Kirkman's excellent video, I guess there must be a blockage/fuel line issue!! ie vacuum is imperfect?
Not being an expert here, other than replacing the carb, anything simple to suggest?
Its been relly helpful on this forum - many thanks for yr advice,
R
robmar0se
Well Ihope you're right.............Likely a fuel line issue.
Today I replaced the spark plug and fuel filter - now it wont start at all (unless I inject fuel direct into the cylinder).
What I did first was the turn upside down and drain the fuel.. I hooked the fuel filter out and carefully removed the old one and push fit the new one. Refuel the tank.
There was still fuel in the primer cone, however on pressing a number of times the fuel left the cone (which I guess is right), but wouldn't refresh, all I get was a squeaking noise, irresepctive of whether the fuel cap was on or off.. Having watched Craig Kirkman's excellent video, I guess there must be a blockage/fuel line issue!! ie vacuum is imperfect?
Not being an expert here, other than replacing the carb, anything simple to suggest?
Its been relly helpful on this forum - many thanks for yr advice,
#14
Fish
Fish
Make sure that you have the fuel lines hooked back up correctly.Well Ihope you're right.............
Today I replaced the spark plug and fuel filter - now it wont start at all (unless I inject fuel direct into the cylinder).
What I did first was the turn upside down and drain the fuel.. I hooked the fuel filter out and carefully removed the old one and push fit the new one. Refuel the tank.
There was still fuel in the primer cone, however on pressing a number of times the fuel left the cone (which I guess is right), but wouldn't refresh, all I get was a squeaking noise, irresepctive of whether the fuel cap was on or off.. Having watched Craig Kirkman's excellent video, I guess there must be a blockage/fuel line issue!! ie vacuum is imperfect?
Not being an expert here, other than replacing the carb, anything simple to suggest?
Its been relly helpful on this forum - many thanks for yr advice,
#15
R
robmar0se
R
robmar0se
Thanks guys.
Weather & work got in the way, today I picked it up and hey presto primer was magically full, and started on 2nd pull.
However, still stuttering & cutting out after 5 mins.
Is it worth replacing the carb with an after market item available on the usual market places? Maybe also adjusting valves?
Weather & work got in the way, today I picked it up and hey presto primer was magically full, and started on 2nd pull.
However, still stuttering & cutting out after 5 mins.
Is it worth replacing the carb with an after market item available on the usual market places? Maybe also adjusting valves?
#16
R
robmar0se
R
robmar0se
Update:
Valves adjusted, made sure it was TDC on right rev, not realy an issue there.
So having checked the least costly alternative, will now move on to replacing the carb, as it is still cutting out when it gets hot.
Thanks to advice from these guys, also some very helpful tips on Youtube on the methodology to fixing these things - the guy on the Stihl Saloon was particularly helpful on adjusting valves.
Valves adjusted, made sure it was TDC on right rev, not realy an issue there.
So having checked the least costly alternative, will now move on to replacing the carb, as it is still cutting out when it gets hot.
Thanks to advice from these guys, also some very helpful tips on Youtube on the methodology to fixing these things - the guy on the Stihl Saloon was particularly helpful on adjusting valves.
#17
R
robmar0se
I think I've done most of this, replaced the coil, plug and filter, no leaks, and adjusted valves. starts fine, but just starts to stutter and then cut-out after 5 mins - the fuel cap was replaced a while ago, and as far as poss, I have tried to run it with the cap off - I will try the cap trick when it starts to stutter. Other than that, as after market carbs are cheap compared to labor costs, thats my next item to deal with.
Thanks again for your ideas - couldn't find a Pace video that you referred to, got the gospel singuing tho'.
Cheers
R
robmar0se
Sorry mate, I've only just seen your post.....but thank you for your input.I you want to diagnose it there are two fairly simple things to do
1) fill the tank right up to the top of the filler neck then go trim
Problem goes away till the tank is say 1/2 empty then you have a fuel line problem
2) buy a red inline spark tester fit it , tie it out of the way then go trim
Watch it when the engines starts to play up
If it keeps on flashing the same while the engine is missing then the coil is working fine .
Note this does not confirm the spark is timed properly, just that it is happening .
Most times bad seals on a 2 stroke manifest themselves by the engine being near impossible to start if it has been sitting unused for a couple of weeks but once started it will start & run fine but be low in power and reving at the wrong speeds (usually to fast ) for the throttle position .
A classic sign is continually having to wind the throttle stop open to maintain an idle because it is sucking air through the seals & not the carb.
You can only confirm this by doing a crankcase pressure / vacuum test
To do this you need both a 2 way pump , blanking plates , an input spiggot ( usually through the spark plug hole ) plus a fair bit of time & skill.
I charge 1 hour to do these test for customers and many times that would be a loss as some are really difficult to access .
However when presented with a machine like yours I follow the proceedures shown in the Joe Pace videos and start with the tank & cap, fixing each & every problem as I come across them .
Not uncommon to find a bad fuel cap, bad tank vent, leaking fuel line , leaking fuel grommet & partially blocked fuel filter , before you get to a varnished up cab with a blocked internal filter .
People seadfastly refuse to maintain hand held 2 stroke tools .
This is not helped by most of the owners manuals having wrong or no long term storage information even if the owner is one of the 2% who actually read it before they start using the tool.
I think I've done most of this, replaced the coil, plug and filter, no leaks, and adjusted valves. starts fine, but just starts to stutter and then cut-out after 5 mins - the fuel cap was replaced a while ago, and as far as poss, I have tried to run it with the cap off - I will try the cap trick when it starts to stutter. Other than that, as after market carbs are cheap compared to labor costs, thats my next item to deal with.
Thanks again for your ideas - couldn't find a Pace video that you referred to, got the gospel singuing tho'.
Cheers
#18
B
bertsmobile1
Not sure if it was mentioned before but check the exhaust port in the cylinder
If you have been using too much oil or labouring the engine carbon builds up around the edges and blocks off the port.
A very small amount of build up can make a very big difference as the saw literally chokes on it's own exhaust
B
bertsmobile1
If you have been using too much oil or labouring the engine carbon builds up around the edges and blocks off the port.
A very small amount of build up can make a very big difference as the saw literally chokes on it's own exhaust
#19
R
robmar0se
R
robmar0se
Thank you bertsmobile1, upto now mixture appeared okay, not smoking once choke off (always off quickly).
I have now fitted an aftermarket carb and is running but is now perhaps running too rich.
My problem is that unlike the original Stihl carb which had philips type heads to adjust, the after maket item, my best guess needs a nut spinner/driver, what size I have no idea.
Can anyone with experience of these aftermaket carbs know what size spinner is needed - assuming it can be adjusted!
Many thanks.
UPDATE: item is Hexagon 4mm Screwdriver - Stihl OEM No. 5910 890 2307
I have now fitted an aftermarket carb and is running but is now perhaps running too rich.
My problem is that unlike the original Stihl carb which had philips type heads to adjust, the after maket item, my best guess needs a nut spinner/driver, what size I have no idea.
Can anyone with experience of these aftermaket carbs know what size spinner is needed - assuming it can be adjusted!
Many thanks.
UPDATE: item is Hexagon 4mm Screwdriver - Stihl OEM No. 5910 890 2307
#20
R
robmar0se
R
robmar0se
Final solution!
Problem was discovered to be the fuel intake pipe/lead. It had sufferred deterioration in that it had gone "soft", and was closing/flatening causing fuel starvation.
Problem was discovered to be the fuel intake pipe/lead. It had sufferred deterioration in that it had gone "soft", and was closing/flatening causing fuel starvation.