Starting issues...got a weird one

[jsmith24]

(Cross-posting, just to make sure I hit all the bases!)

Hi all,

I'm helping my friends get their Cub Cadet 1330 going. It was running when they bought it two weeks ago, but when they tried their first mow last week, it ran for 10 minutes, made a popping sound (it sounds like they mean backfired), and then wouldn't start. I went over, found badly deteriorated fuel lines and some minor rubber debris in the bowl. Well, when I say minor, I mean it was quite a few particles, but small in size, still easy to see, though. Anyway, I pulled the carb bowl, cleaned it out, checked the float, it's solid, checked and replaced the needle (I had one from a rebuild kit for the Walbro that wasn't used), and sprayed out the passages I could get to with the carb intact. Checked the spark plug - it's older, but in good shape, so cleaned and put back in. Oil was recently changed - still very clear.

I put it back together, charged the battery and after a few seconds she started and ran like she should. I ran it for a good half hour, mowed some, stopped, waited a minute or two, and started again. Did this three times, all was well. I packed up my tools (about 10 minutes or so), and thought I'd try one more time - now it takes a minute or two before it sounds like it wants to start, though it has strong turn-over. Once it starts, it runs great.

Update since yesterday: When it sat overnight, it started with almost no problem. Ran it for 10-15 minutes, let it sit for maybe 5-10, and hard starting again.

What am I looking at here? Should I break the carb down, remove all the foam and gaskets, and give it a good soak in Berryman's? It seems like it HAS to be a carb issue, but I'm no pro, so I'm asking you guys who are!

It's a Cub Cadet 1330, 12.5 hp Kohler. The mower is in absolutely grade A condition otherwise - no paint scrapes or chips, no rust, only the most minor deck rust, all original paint as far as I can tell. The only things wrong besides the starting issue is a missing headlight lens and the blades need a sharpening.
Any help?

Thanks,
Jack

 

[ILENGINE]

Has possible issues of heat sinking the ignition module when it is turned off. It sounds like it may be having heat failure of the module when the heat of the engine rises when the engine is shut off. May need to run the engine for a while, then shut it off, and let is set a few minutes like before, but connect a spark tester between the spark plug wire and the spark plug and check for spark when you try to restart.

I have changed 7 ignition modules this year because of the symptoms you are showing one on a single cylinder Kohler, and the other 4 on Kohler Commands, and just this week 2 on a Kohler Aegis engine.

 

[jsmith24]

Has possible issues of heat sinking the ignition module when it is turned off. It sounds like it may be having heat failure of the module when the heat of the engine rises when the engine is shut off. May need to run the engine for a while, then shut it off, and let is set a few minutes like before, but connect a spark tester between the spark plug wire and the spark plug and check for spark when you try to restart.

I have changed 7 ignition modules this year because of the symptoms you are showing one on a single cylinder Kohler, and the other 4 on Kohler Commands, and just this week 2 on a Kohler Aegis engine.

Thanks for the tip. I failed to mention that it is, indeed, a Kohler 12.5. When you say "ignition module" is that what most of us call the coil? If I test for spark when it's not starting, and there's no spark, do you have a preferred place to buy these, since you have to do so many?

Jack

 

[ILENGINE]

The ignition module is what some people call a coil. The reason I like to call it an ignition module, is because a coil normally requires a battery voltage input to operate, whereas the ignition module is self powered. As far a preferred place to purchase modules, I am a dealer so you know what I am going to say.

 

[jsmith24]

The ignition module is what some people call a coil. The reason I like to call it an ignition module, is because a coil normally requires a battery voltage input to operate, whereas the ignition module is self powered. As far a preferred place to purchase modules, I am a dealer so you know what I am going to say.

I didn't realize you were a dealer! Sorry about that.

If you would, please message me with how to find you, just in case I'm also too oblivious to figure it out from your post.

Also, let me know the cost, please! The part number I have is KH-12-584-01, though I'm sure it's been superseded by now.

Thanks!

 

[ILENGINE]

jsmith, Since I am in Illinois I am a little far from you and I don't accept plastic but for just for the additional information the part supercedes to a 12 584 04-s and list for $59.14, but I just found some on amazon for around $41.

 

[jsmith24]

jsmith, Since I am in Illinois I am a little far from you and I don't accept plastic but for just for the additional information the part supercedes to a 12 584 04-s and list for $59.14, but I just found some on amazon for around $41.

Great - and thanks for all the help. I hear you about plastic...the "tiny" fees they charge just eat up what little you can make.

 

[bertsmobile1]

Funny, I stopped taking plastic when we had the transport business.
However I suprise a lot of customers when I take a cheque.
It would be nice if they had some cash to pay me with when they get their mower back on the weekend, particularly when they get told when it will be returned.

And for the OP I buy a lot of parts from Jacks Small Engines, great people to deal with ,

 

[jsmith24]

Has possible issues of heat sinking the ignition module when it is turned off. It sounds like it may be having heat failure of the module when the heat of the engine rises when the engine is shut off. May need to run the engine for a while, then shut it off, and let is set a few minutes like before, but connect a spark tester between the spark plug wire and the spark plug and check for spark when you try to restart.

I have changed 7 ignition modules this year because of the symptoms you are showing one on a single cylinder Kohler, and the other 4 on Kohler Commands, and just this week 2 on a Kohler Aegis engine.

Well, you were spot-on with your initial diagnosis - bad coil. Went back over there today, mower started right up (it was around 38 degrees). I set my phone for an hour, mowed their huge front yard and putzed around a bit, and when the hour was up I parked it. Tried immediately to restart it, worked fine. Set the timer for 10 minutes. Pulled the plug wire, put in my spark tester and waited. At 10 minutes, plenty of crank, zero spark, no start. Just for kicks, I took the leaf blower and blew air down the fan cover for a little over a minute, hit the key, and started like new. Waited two more minutes for the heat to creep, and again, no spark.

So, I really and TRULY appreciate your help.

I'd like to ask for one more bit of your knowledge: When mowing at full speed on the Cub Cadet 1330 with hydro transaxle, it drops in speed on its own as your going. That is, if you set it to full "Hare" speed - if that's a 10 - it starts moving the handle down on its own to 9, 8, etc. and you have to keep pushing it back to full. Where would I start troubleshooting that? All the transaxles I've worked on have been the old Peerless 5 speeds.

Thanks again!

Jack

 

[ILENGINE]

Most of the hydrostat setups have a way to adjust the tension on the speed selector. May be located on the transmission, could be on the speed lever that you move to go, or on some units is located within the linkage between the speed selector, and the tranny.

Will look like a nut on the end of a threaded stud with a spring and some friction washers underneath, that moves within a slot.