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Starting fluid question

#1

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

I have noticed that every time someone suggests using starting fluid as a troubleshooting tool people are quick to caution that they can "blow the head off" or "bend the connecting rod" or "bend the valves" or "blow it up". Over the last 50 years i have used starting fluid in literally many hundreds of engines. I use about a can every two months in the shop. I have never damaged any engine.

Starting fluid has less energy density than gasoline it just vaporizes much easier than gasoline so it makes it easier to start. You can flood an engine with starting fluid just like gasoline and it doesn't "blow up". Some say it will ruin 2 strokes by "blowing out seals" or "scoring cylinders" or "explode mufflers". My question is does anyone have first hand experience of starting fluid blowing up a gasoline engine? Not something on the internet or something their buddy told them or some other legend. Pics would be nice. Just asking. Not talking about diesel engines.


#2

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

Nope, never seen one blow up.. but i just use flammable brake cleaner for starting fluid, so i don't have multiple cans, that can do the same thing, taking up space.
Project Farm guy ran a Quantum on it for 30 minutes.


#3

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

I was trying to use brake cleaner and got frustrated then saw the can said "non-flamable".


#4

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

Hammermechanicman said:
I was trying to use brake cleaner and got frustrated then saw the can said "non-flamable".
Click to expand...
🤣🤣🤣


#5

StarTech

StarTech

I figure if an engine can't run what fuel it is intended to use there is a problem.

BTW some engines do get hooked on the starting fluid. I had a Ford diesel that so dependent on the starter fluid that I had to use it everytime you started the engine; finally blew the injector pump.

And surely don't want to run a two cycle very long at all on nothing but starter fluid.


#6

H

hlw49

I bought a mower from a guy who told me that over the winter it got water in the cylinder and froze and busted the head. Took the head off and the cylinder and head were clean, no rust. Next time I saw him he admitted to using starting fluid on it. Sure did bust the head.


#7

B

bertsmobile1

The problem with starting fluid which is usually Either is it is designed to start diesel engines
In a petrol engine it can and that is a CAN cause preignition which as we all know can blow a hole in a piston in a single cycle
It should not be a problem with side valve engines but can cause problems with higher compression OHV engines
And while it's specific energy is lower than modern fuels . you can shove a whole lot more in there .
If you toss the proverbial tea spoon of fuel down the plug hole then only a small amount will vapourise .
The rest will drizzle through the ring gap , get stuck around the rings and allow the engine to fire a couple of more times as it evaporates .
You only have to look at all of the brain dead idiots on you tube that pump 1/2 a can into the engine then wonder why it backfires and set the mower on fire


#8

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

Not buying it. A "Some guy said" i have heard tons of stories but have never seen a first hand damaged engine


#9

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

In a petrol engine it can and that is a CAN cause preignition which as we all know can blow a hole in a piston in a single cycle
It should not be a problem with side valve engines but can cause problems with higher compression OHV engines

No offense but "it can" but i have never seen it and i have used it in everything from a high compression 396 chevy V8 to a 25 cc string trimmer and everything in between.

Still looking for a FIRST HAND experience. This thread will probably trigger some folks. Sorry.


#10

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

🍿 🍿 🍿


#11

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

Scrubcadet10 said:
🍿 🍿 🍿
Click to expand...
😂


#12

B

bertsmobile1

So some one comes in with an engine that won't start and you find a hole in the piston
He says it won't even start on starter fluid
So do you attribute the hole to the use of starting fluid or do you think the hole was the reason it would not start in the first place and diagnose preignition from overheating ?
You don't stand there with 2 cans of starting fluid madly squirting it down the carb till the engine hydro locks but other people do
In 11 years I have had 2 engines with holed pistons
Immediate assumption
plug causing pre-igniton
Repair
Replaced piston & rings , honed bore , replaced the timing key & magneto coil.
Engine is still running
Why did it fail, don't know & don't care unless it is a warranty problem .


#13

sgkent

sgkent

this thread falls under the agree with me or go away syndrome, aka I know more than you do. Totally par for the course in this day and age. For the records, gasoline burns. Ether explodes. There is a difference but it will fall on deaf ears. I am out.


#14

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

sgkent said:
this thread falls under the agree with me or go away syndrome, aka I know more than you do. Totally par for the course in this day and age. For the records, gasoline burns. Ether explodes. There is a difference but it will fall on deaf ears. I am out.
Click to expand...
Just looking for a first hand experience.
What is the stoichometric ratio that makes ether explode?
The speed of deflagration between gasoline and ether is not that different. You only get so many oxygen molocules in the cylinder.


#15

H

hlw49

Hammermechanicman said:
Not buying it. A "Some guy said" i have heard tons of stories but have never seen a first hand damaged engine
Click to expand...
I am not a some guy said. Been doing this 46 years. I won't take the chance will use my gumout carb cleaner.


#16

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

Carb cleaner works. Just looking for a first hand experience. When i was in high school i saw my neighbor literally blow the air cleaner off his 327 impala with starting fluid when it was below zero one morning. Then he got it started and it ran fine.

Scub needs a 🥤to go with the 🍿


#17

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10



#18

R

rdedrick

It can damage diesels with their higher compression if you use too much. The thing it will do is wash down the cylinder walls if you use a lot of regularly. A lawn mowing job I do the owner has a Husqvarna mower in the shed he would like me to use once in a while. It is fairly new and he said it needed starting fluid to start. I checked the choke by hand and it fired right up. I adjusted the cable so it won't need that starting fluid again. Looking it up online it appears many of them from the factory exhibited this problem. Like Star Tech said it should run on the fuel it was designed for.


#19

B

bertsmobile1

Starting fluid is basically either + a volatile propellent
So unless the product has more information on the can than "propellent hydrocarbon " working out the flame propogation rate & stoichometric ratio is a touch difficult
The video was interesting but you might note that my previous post mentioned that it would not be a problem for low compression side valve engines & he used a low compression side valve engine .
When either is used in model engines it generally has caster oil added at some where between 50:1 & 100:1 depending upon the actual engine and a lot of them are actually diesel , or compression ignitions if you prefer but they run at around 30:1 compression ratios
I am sure that you have heard an engine knock quite badly when running on starting fluid being sprayed down a carb and we know what knocking CAN do to an engine
I don't use power tools standing on wet grass with wet hands because I CAN get an electric shock if I am unlucky .
And technically there is no difference between combustion & an explosion
The former happens in an unconfines space while the latter is exactly the same process happening in a confined space so the heat & pressure can not escape


#20

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

I had a guy tell me that starting fluid would blow up an engine. I disconnected the fuel pump on a briggs OHV twin and gave him a can and told him to try and blow it up. He used the whole can and couldn't blow it up.
Been a fun thread pursuing an urban legend. What's next? Does a mower run "better" on premium vs regular?


#21

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

Hammermechanicman said:
. What's next? Does a mower run "better" on premium vs regular?
Click to expand...
I refine my own fuel....
1663728572845.png


#22

StarTech

StarTech

Hammermechanicman said:
I had a guy tell me that starting fluid would blow up an engine. I disconnected the fuel pump on a Briggs OHV twin and gave him a can and told him to try and blow it up. He used the whole can and couldn't blow it up.
Been a fun thread pursuing an urban legend. What's next? Does a mower run "better" on premium vs regular?
Click to expand...
All I know is you don't want to try that on a two cycle engine. I prefer to use whatever the engine is design to run on as the test fuel. But starter fluid is a lazy and convenient way of testing as it is something easily reached for. There haven't been a can of the stuff in my shop in many years other than when a can comes on a customer's mower. As for my shop there hasn't been a can of carburetor cleaner in my shop since 2014. I actually gave my last can drip cleaner back in late 2014. I am cleaning carburetors every week here lately.

Most 4 cycle small engines on lawn care equipment usually have a fairly low compression ratio. Now higher compression engines may have a problem with starter fluid use due it being more volatile than gasoline. Tighter the confined space the more explosive it becomes.

But of a full gas tank is less likely to explode than a near empty one as fuel vapor is more volatile than liquid fuel in a sealed container with a spark introduced.

I was surprised the customer's Kawasaki 3010 didn't catch a fire from the leaky fuel pump as it was leaking on the pressure regulator side of the fuel pump where there is was open contacts, loose ground wire, and a bare hot lead. Another great DIYer rigged job. The DIYer rather risk things instead putting on a $25 electric fuel pump. But of course the idiot use Motoseal RTV to seal the carburetor and to patch up leaky engine gaskets. It ended up costing the new owner over $1800 in repairs and he still has the brakes to repair. He just wanted me to get the 3010 running again. He said his son can fix the brakes. That is fine with me as I done spent 18 hours repairing the 3010 engine and the CV axles. A royal pain to remove and install the engine. It was the first engine I repair that didn't have an internal governor; the governor is in the gearbox.


#23

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

Scrubcadet10 said:
I refine my own fuel....
View attachment 62285
Click to expand...
Is that kohler fuel also known as liquid courage? 🍹


#24

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

StarTech said:
All I know is you don't want to try that on a two cycle engine. I prefer to use whatever the engine is design to run on as the test fuel. But starter fluid is a lazy and convenient way of testing as it is something easily reached for. There haven't been a can of the stuff in my shop in many years other than when a can comes on a customer's mower. As for my shop there hasn't been a can of carburetor cleaner in my shop since 2014. I actually gave my last can drip cleaner back in late 2014. I am cleaning carburetors every week here lately.

Most 4 cycle small engines on lawn care equipment usually have a fairly low compression ratio. Now higher compression engines may have a problem with starter fluid use due it being more volatile than gasoline. Tighter the confined space the more explosive it becomes.

But of a full gas tank is less likely to explode than a near empty one as fuel vapor is more volatile than liquid fuel in a sealed container with a spark introduced.

I was surprised the customer's Kawasaki 3010 didn't catch a fire from the leaky fuel pump as it was leaking on the pressure regulator side of the fuel pump where there is was open contacts, loose ground wire, and a bare hot lead. Another great DIYer rigged job. The DIYer rather risk things instead putting on a $25 electric fuel pump. But of course the idiot use Motoseal RTV to seal the carburetor and to patch up leaky engine gaskets. It ended up costing the new owner over $1800 in repairs and he still has the brakes to repair. He just wanted me to get the 3010 running again. He said his son can fix the brakes. That is fine with me as I done spent 18 hours repairing the 3010 engine and the CV axles. A royal pain to remove and install the engine. It was the first engine I repair that didn't have an internal governor; the governor is in the gearbox.
Click to expand...

Everybody has their way of doing things and if it works it's not wrong. At 65 with a bum shoulder, arthritis and trigger finger in my right hand pulling a starter rope is not my favorite thing so i do use starting fluid a lot for testing.


#25

StarTech

StarTech

Can understand the shoulder and other pain sources. I have cussed myself several times when my left shoulder was giving me lots of pain. Just had to deal with the limitations and find other ways of doing things. It is like me using my two ton engine crane to pickup 100 lb engines so I can place them on the work bench. My back just don't need to get messed back up again. Plus at 63 I not as strong as I was when I was 25. That FX850 is very heavy to me to pickup off the ground and put it above my waist. Done been on and off the bench 3x already and I awaiting some 20mm M10-1.25 Helicoils for the cylinder head bolts. Three on the same side stripped on removal. Galled.

According to doctors if you are right handed you are not in your right mind. I'm a lefty in a right handed world; such a pain trying to use right only handed tools.


#26

B

bertsmobile1

Not trying to become an internet doctor but two tips I was given by physiotherapists over the past have served me very well
1) have a long hot shower ( not bath ) then come out and lay flat on your back with both arms strait out over your head on a hard flat surface
Do it right away do not towel down and stay there till you are cold then get up slowly.
This allows joints that are being pulled out of place to settle back in their proper place.
2) at least once a week hang upside down in free space for as long as you can
This stretched the sacks between the vertibrea in your back so they cushion like they should
I use some pallet racking & hang by my knees
I stretch a touch over 1" when I do this and it does make me feel really good when the blood drains back from the brain
I used to occasionally go to one of those "alternative Wellness centers " who did inversion therapy with a table that clamps onto your ankles.
That treatment was even better but there is only so much "healing music & soothing organic fragrences " a bloke can take


#27

StarTech

StarTech

In my back case it turned out to be a dislocated vertebra that doctors didn't find. Otherwords I had two that bone to bone contact and would pinch a nerve at times. Ten years of pain. One evening I was laying on the floor for relief. When I went to get up on all fours started raising up to vertical when back pop just like broke something. Lots of pain for 15 minutes and then no more pain. No stabbing pain when walking across the yard at times. Now the shoulder was from being dislocated and I just had to baby it until it heal. But I would forget about it and pull a pull rope and then I cussed myself.

And no wonder why I don't trust doctors. With all the x-rays I should glow in the dark. Currently got a doctor that likes to experiment, doesn't explain why he changes my blood pressure meds everytime I go to him. I finally got one pill that was working and he takes me off it and wants me to take six pills now. And the side effects are worst than not taking them.
bertsmobile1 said:
That treatment was even better but there is only so much "healing music & soothing organic fragrences " a bloke can take
Click to expand...
I know. I prefer just a very quite area. Especially considering all the noise I am around all day besides headaches that I have kinda requires it.


#28

4getgto

4getgto

Decisions decisions..
Regular or Premium
Starting fluid or not..
Gas stabilizer or no stabilizer.
Medial marijuana or home grown...

Some questions will never get answered..😉


#29

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

4getgto said:
Decisions decisions..
Regular or Premium
Starting fluid or not..
Gas stabilizer or no stabilizer.
Medial marijuana or home grown...

Some questions will never get answered..😉
Click to expand...
I believe they have opened an investigation into all these matters. That knock at the door will be the FBI.


#30

1

1 Lucky Texan

On car forums I frequent, most suggestions are not for regular/frequent starting with 'starter fluid', but , just to see if an engine fires. Occasionally, folks have used a stream of propane from an unlit handheld torch!
Then , begin troubleshooting fueling issues since spark issues are eliminated.

I do have some brake cleaner. haven't needed to start anything with it. I think if I were gonna keep starting fluid around, it would ONLY be this brand;

1665073336125.png


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