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My moms 22" Toro self propelled has electric start and a TXP 159cc engine. The switches work properly and the battery has 12.75 volts even after some cranking. When it doesn't work I tap it and it spins and engages. I got her a small rider, so I want to get it working and sell it. I don't want to buy a starter. Any ideas?

Is this an old engine ?

When the brushes wore out, they sometimes did not make a good contact to the commutator anymore. A little shock help to restore temporarily this contact.
IF this is the case you have to replace them (or the whole starter motor), or this will go worse and worse

I took apart the starter and found the brushes were sticking in the holders, because of corrosion. I did my best to clean the rust off the holders. But I don't know how to reassemble. The brush holder ring mounts to a solid cap, the positive brushes are fastened to the cap. So using a socket or anything else, then mounting the cap after won't work. Any suggestions?

Ok so was that issue - with another root cause

For reassembly post pictures, don't know by heart all starters - and perhaps someone can help you.
Did not really understand what the issue is, do you need to find a way to maintain brushes in place before closing the cover ?

I used tiny wire to hold the brushes in and the starter works great. But it won't run. Still working on it. The carb has a lot of bs. I am going to take it apart again.

Since you don’t give us the model numbers, I’m assuming you have a Tecumseh engine. Page 58 of this manual may help you out. A second set of hands when reassembling will definitely be valuable, as even an experienced mechanic can have problems. https://www.mymowerparts.com/pdf/Te...P-4-CYCLE-L-HEAD-FLAT-HEAD-ENGINES-692509.pdf

I did post the engine model TSP 159cc ohv. Don't know who makes it. It is a 22" Recyclable personal pace mower. A real piece of crap.

I got the starter back together, works fine. Mower runs good until warm, then I think the automatic choke screws things up. It may have something to do with the air temp of 10. It has an auto throttle too. The engine is TXP 159cc ohv. The choke is also adjusted by some thing affected by air around the fly wheel.

That is not an engine model number, just a series number. Most 22” Toro mowers have either a Tecumseh or Loncin engine. A few may come with a Kohler engine. If you would have posted the mowers model and serial numbers, we would be able to lookup the exact engine. Lawn mower engines are not designed to run very well at any temperatures lower that 40 degrees, carbs are set to lean. Don’t blame the unit when you are trying to run it in situations it was not designed for. Toro makes a good unit when used and operated in the proper conditions.

This mower is a piece of crap because; It says on the cover, "guaranteed to start" and it hasn't since my mom bought it new. It does not have the manufacturer of the engine on it. It does not have a usable throttle. It does not have a manual choke. The auto choke does not work. The mower won't run when it is cold out. The "person pace" is tough to push, tougher to pull. The mower shuts off if you let go of the handle. The starter is a funnel for water and therefore corrosion. The starter is difficult to service. The battery is difficult to get to. It is ugly.

That said I guess I can't work on the auto choke as I can't run the mower until it is warm out. What a piece of crap. I just want to get it working so I can sell it to someone that wants a piece of crap.

I’m going to make some assumptions about what is going on, based on your last post. You must be a great guy, as you want to get good money from someone by selling them a “piece of crap”. You can’t give us the units model and serial numbers, because you can’t find them. The unit is stored outside, which is allowing water to get into the starter. This starting problem has occurred since new and the dealer could not repair it under warranty when you complained about the problem and Toro would not help you, saying it was a fuel problem. If the unit has an AutoChoke and no throttle control, I’m guessing it is either a newer Loncin engine or older Briggs. Tecumseh doesn’t have auto choke. You do know how the different AutoChoke systems work? If you look around you will see that 90% of today’s mowers have this type of fuel systems. The Personal Pace system does not work properly, even though you and the dealer tried to adjust it according to the directions in the owners manual. You know that all of today’s push mowers have a safety feature that shut off the engine when the bail handle is released, unless it is equipped with a “blade break clutch system”. This has been required by the government regulation s for over two decades. I’m guessing that most of my assumptions are wrong and you feel I don’t know what I’m talking about and you might be right. I’ve only been working for Toro dealerships for the last 35 years and working on small engines for over 50 years. I probably don’t have enough experience to help individuals solve engine problems. If I thought that you really wanted help solving your problems, I’m guessing I could walk you through the steps needed to do so, but I doubt you would listen to my recommendation. Maybe there are others on this forum who have more experience and knowledge than me and they will help you out where I can’t, so I’ll back out for now and try to learn something new. Good luck with your project.

Working on small engines is not your cup of tea... if it is just for seelling something not that good repaired, sold it as is and take money to have a beer, it can refresh mind

Guaranteed to start is for a maintained engine, not for something sleeping in rain with no love (or at least basic maintenance) to give it.

By the way, a throttle is almost useless on a (small) push mower, to idle at 1800RPM and mow at 2800 this is a a more complicated carb control, a cable, a lever for almost nothing but cost.
And as said above unless you have a blade clutch (that cost and wear out too) law need the engine to stop within 3 seconds when releasing handle - basic safety.

Anyway hope you have success with you repair.

Lawn King, you know what they say about assumptions....Don't mistake my defense of this mower being a POS, for being ungrateful for the help and I have no reason to question your experience. If it would help you I can get you more info, but I don't see how it would help me. Let me know?

I have not bothered looking for whatever numbers, as I fixed what needs fixing and the choke will have to wait, for warmer weather, apparently, so I will wait or not bother. Although I am interested to see if I can improve the choke, as some have done. The fact that we don't know who makes the engine from the TXP 159 ohv, is not an indicator of good quality. I have an understanding of how the auto choke system should work, but clearly it doesn't. Just because something is require, regulated or everyone else does it, doesn't mean it is good. I stand behind my opinion, this is a POS.

If it helps you, this mower was my mother's she bought it new from a hardware store 150 miles from where she lives, because my cousin worked there. When the electric start didn't work from the beginning, she didn't want to contact them, she thought it would reflect poorly on my cousin. She pull started it for a couple years, but then it wouldn't start anymore. So I got her a small rider. I have had the POS in my garage for a couple years, she had always kept in her shed. It had gas varnish in the carb, not the fault of the mower.

I never said how much I would sell it for, or what I would say when selling it. I think it is a pos, but someone else, people maybe like you, like that kind of thing. After all some people might like the government gas cans. Not sure why you think that reflects poorly on me, what should I do with it? I serviced it well as much as I can, until it gets warmer.

Mkala said:

Working on small engines is not your cup of tea... if it is just for seelling something not that good repaired, sold it as is and take money to have a beer, it can refresh mind

Guaranteed to start is for a maintained engine, not for something sleeping in rain with no love (or at least basic maintenance) to give it.

By the way, a throttle is almost useless on a (small) push mower, to idle at 1800RPM and mow at 2800 this is a a more complicated carb control, a cable, a lever for almost nothing but cost.
And as said above unless you have a blade clutch (that cost and wear out too) law need the engine to stop within 3 seconds when releasing handle - basic safety.

Anyway hope you have success with you repair.

Click to expand...

Not sure why you think small engines "is not your cup of tea..." just because I think this is a pos, or because fixed it before I got responses from this forum. Or because I want to sell this pos for my mother and get it out of my garage. Please enlighten me?

I much prefer the ability to control the choke and the throttle, as well as having a blade clutch. I am free to have my opinion. I had a John Deere push mower with a Kawasaki for 30 years, great mower can't remember a single problem. I also avoid Briggs, Kohler, Tecumseh engines and now Toro. Because of bad experiences, too bad everything doesn't have a Honda. Can't I have that opinion on this site?

Or at least this engine is not your cup of tea. Perhaps is better to just sell it without wasting you time on something you don't like.

Of course you can have opinions; your preferences, I don't say you can't. I just say if you want to control throttle, have a blade clutch, have choke control, you can but you have to choose for and pay for. Ok for this one I understood it was not yours and not really your choice...

If you are happy with Honda buy them Because if you don't like Briggs and all your list - you don't have a lot of choice anymore :wink:
But this is not technical and not interesting for me (endless discussion), so I stop there.

If you would have taken two minutes looking at the deck, you would have seen a black and silver tag on the deck, which has the model and serial numbers. Willing to bet the model number is 20373. With those you could have gone to the Toro website for manuals and parts breakdown. It would also have told you the engine numbers. Like a car, you don’t have to take it to the selling dealer for warranty work. If properly registered any dealer can do the warranty repairs. If you really want a mower with all the options you are looking for, it will probably cost $700+. Just because you can’t fix it doesn’t mean that the unit is crap. Of the hundreds of these units I have sold or repaired, I have yet to have one that has beaten me. Toro has even backed me up when some units are out of warranty, but I am able to show them that the problem was not caused by the customer or normal wear and tear. They make good mowers and use good engines, if customers use good common sense when dealing with problems. As I always told my students, “You can’t help a customer who thinks they have a lemon, but wants you to make it into champagne. You can fix units, but not attitudes”. Read my signature.

Like I said, I am done, it works okay, which is better than new. I just can't check the choke operation on the pos because it "isn't designed to run below 40 degrees" so I may have to wait until May.

Rivets, Dude, you are not listening. Like I said, I fixed it, no point in looking up any numbers. I am done, it works okay, which is better than new. I just can't check the choke operation on the pos because it "isn't designed to run below 40 degrees" so I may have to wait until May.

This pos is not my mower, I have 5+ acres to mow, and use a simpler 60" zero turn Gravely.

If you really know how the AutoChoke works, you would know that it will work at all temps. The carb jets are designed to work best at temps over 40 degrees. The AutoChoke will stay closed until then the engine starts, then a spring attached either to the governor or throttle linkage will partially open the choke. The choke has a second linkage attached to a thermostatic pot mounted on the muffler. As the engine heats up the pot will cause the linkage to slowly open the choke, until it is fully open and hold it there. Even if the engine is shut down, the choke will not close until the engine cools down. Not really hard to check, even in cold weather. First check to see if it is fully closed. Start engine and check to see if choke is partially open. Watch the choke as the engine warms up and you should be seeing it move to a fully open position. It may take a while in cold conditions. Bkvanbek, this is not for you, as you are done, you fixed it, it works OK, so don’t try this. This is for anyone who reads this thread and wants to learn about AutoChoke systems. I hope you are man enough to tell the person you sell this unit to, that you fixed it and it works OK, but may need to be looked at by a good repair shop.

That auto choke, jet combination is a poor design. In the cold weather it runs good until the engine warms and the choke opens. If I manually close the choke it runs good again. But I can't tell if it will run good when the air temp is warmer. Can you? But even if it does, it is a poor design to not run in cool weather. I believe a mower with manual chokes would, my Gravely does, my John Deere did.

Every thing that adds a complication also adds another potential problem.
Outdoor equipment makers are being held hostage by the pollution Nazis
None of them want to fit auto chokes they are a lot more expensive that a few feet of bowden cable and a thumb lever or over reach lever on the throttle control.

Auto chokes give me a lot of grief regardless of what brand or what piece of equipment.

If you remember your physics, liquids get more dense as the temperature drops.
And metals contract as they get colder
Below 40 deg, the contraction in the main jet in the carb can not account for the increase density of the fuel .
This has the same effect as fitting a bigger main jet and allows the engine to run richer, closer to what it should run.
However running at a proper fuel:air ratio puts the exhaust outside the allowable emission limit so you the customer get told not to run the engine below 40 deg.

The engine will happily run down to around -40 by which time fuel will not flow under gravity at -60 the fuel will freeze in a metal float bowl.

But as your mind appears to be closed you will never be happy with the unit so sell it as soon as possible to some one who will appreciate the equipment.

bertsmobile1 said:

Every thing that adds a complication also adds another potential problem.
Outdoor equipment makers are being held hostage by the pollution Nazis
None of them want to fit auto chokes they are a lot more expensive that a few feet of bowden cable and a thumb lever or over reach lever on the throttle control.

Auto chokes give me a lot of grief regardless of what brand or what piece of equipment.

If you remember your physics, liquids get more dense as the temperature drops.
And metals contract as they get colder
Below 40 deg, the contraction in the main jet in the carb can not account for the increase density of the fuel .
This has the same effect as fitting a bigger main jet and allows the engine to run richer, closer to what it should run.
However running at a proper fuel:air ratio puts the exhaust outside the allowable emission limit so you the customer get told not to run the engine below 40 deg.

The engine will happily run down to around -40 by which time fuel will not flow under gravity at -60 the fuel will freeze in a metal float bowl.

But as your mind appears to be closed you will never be happy with the unit so sell it as soon as possible to some one who will appreciate the equipment.

Click to expand...

I agree with you Every thing that adds a complication also adds another potential problem. But this was never a mower I was going to use, it is my mothers.