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starter spins but does not turn over the engine BS Vanguard V twin
#1
G
guest2
G
guest2
Briggs $ Stratton V-twin Vanguard, 303777-1032-01 starter spins (very quick;y) but does not turn over the engine. This happened all at once no previous starter problems or engine problems of any kind. This is a 14 HP early 1990.s engine but only has a couple hundred hours on it. If it is the starter where can I get instructions on how to properly remove and repair it, thank you.
#2
I
ILENGINE
I
ILENGINE
most of the vanguards have a steel starter gear so probably the starter gear is stuck in the down position on the bendix. while holding the inner nut behind the wire going to the starter remove the outside nut. there are two bolts that bolt the starter to the block. you may have to remove the cover over the starter drive before you can get to them. if it is just the bendix you may be able to just remove the blower housing and lightly lube the bendix and unstick the gear.
#3
G
guest2
G
guest2
Thanks I try it. The two bolts you are talking about arr the long bolts at the end of starter. What inside nut are you talking about. the nut that the power cable connencts to?
#4
BKBrown
BKBrown
I just replaced a starter on a neighbors Snapper with B&S 12.5 HP
There was a nylon gear inside the bendix that had sheared -- it is possible to just replace that part if the starter motor is OK.
There was a nylon gear inside the bendix that had sheared -- it is possible to just replace that part if the starter motor is OK.
#5
G
guest2
Thanks the started does spin, I am just trying to figure out the easiest way to get to it and to take it off. I can't seem to find an illustrated manual to look at.
G
guest2
I just replaced a starter on a neighbors Snapper with B&S 12.5 HP
There was a nylon gear inside the bendix that had sheared -- it is possible to just replace that part if the starter motor is OK.
Thanks the started does spin, I am just trying to figure out the easiest way to get to it and to take it off. I can't seem to find an illustrated manual to look at.
#6
I
ILENGINE
the nut I am talking about is the one with the power cable. the two bolts that mount the starter are behind the starter gear, I was just thinking that there is a few vanguards where the mount bolts are under the flywheel.
I
ILENGINE
Thanks I try it. The two bolts you are talking about arr the long bolts at the end of starter. What inside nut are you talking about. the nut that the power cable connencts to?
the nut I am talking about is the one with the power cable. the two bolts that mount the starter are behind the starter gear, I was just thinking that there is a few vanguards where the mount bolts are under the flywheel.
#7
I
ILENGINE
yes, The gear is either held on by a metal ring just above the flat disc. the older starters had a roll pin that had to be removed to replace the gear.
I
ILENGINE
I just replaced a starter on a neighbors Snapper with B&S 12.5 HP
There was a nylon gear inside the bendix that had sheared -- it is possible to just replace that part if the starter motor is OK.
yes, The gear is either held on by a metal ring just above the flat disc. the older starters had a roll pin that had to be removed to replace the gear.
#8
G
guest2
G
guest2
After taking off the shroud cover and half of the engine I still can get to the top bolt on the starter braket. Also, as it semmes I have screwed up and removed the starter cover and am having trouble getting the brushes / cover back on. Oh yes at this pint I can see that it has a roll pin that I also can not get to It would have probaby been easier to have pulled the enging to start with. Any ideas on how to get the started cover back on. I think that I can beat out the roll pin once I get the cover back on. I would like to get out the top bolt but I do not see a way t do so.
Thanks, oh yes it has a plastic gear that was stuck during the last startup and it now smooth.
Thanks, oh yes it has a plastic gear that was stuck during the last startup and it now smooth.
#9
B
byronmill
If you have not found your solution yet I can give you some advice. The 2 bolts are normally 13mm (can use 1/2" also) but Briggs says some newer ones (after 00 date code, or 2000) have 12 mm. They thread into the side of the block through the hole in the flange on the side of the starter motor. The one bolt you can get at with a standard socket and extension. The second one is partially blocked by the starter shaft/bendix combination. The 'simple" solution (also Briggs recommended procedure) is to obtain a 1/4" drive x 13mm (or 1/2") swivel socket. When used with an extension and ratchet this is just small enough to fit in there and remove the bolt. Briggs sells for about $30, SnapOn sells for $39 or so, I assume Sears would have it, probably some hardware/home stores. Must be 1/4" drive, 3/8 drive is just a bit too large. Universal and socket combination will not work. Only other real option is to pull off shroud and flywheel to get at the bolt. Yes, it is a lousy design.
Now your question about the brushes. You will most likely be unable to get them back in place without totally disassembling the motor, but you are already 90% of the way there anyway. Once you get the starter dismounted you can pull off the back end cap and then remove the brush holder. While you have it open you can clean up the commutator and check the brushes. If the brushes and the bendix are bad just bite the bullet and buy a new starter. 16 tooth PLASTIC gear and 4.25" case length are the critical specs. There are a multitude of B&S part numbers that cross for this starter, but the model number for your engine would be 499521. Home Depot sells them for about $85, you can get a good one on eBay for about $50 delivered. There are some cheaper ones, but I have heard some bad reviews on them. To replace brush holder you have to push the brushes back into the holder and put some short sections of welding rod or small nails, hanger wire to hold them in place. Put brush holder back in place in the starter body and over the commutator on the armature, remove pins and brushes are back in place. Lightly grease the end of the armature shaft and the bushing in the end cap and put back into place. There is a video on YouTube that dragonslayer45895 posted showing the service procedure. It is 2 parts, kind of down and dirty, but gets the job done. The starter he is servicing has the new Bendix arrangement using the spring clip instead of the roll pin, but you will get the idea.
Regarding the Bendix. you can get a repair kit yet for the roll pin style. There are two types of kits, one with the starter clutch and one without. The clutch is the part closest to the motor and has a metal flange with two flat edges to it, The plastic helix it part of that. I would suggest that you spend the extra few dollars and get the clutch. That clutch is designed to slip if the plastic gear is overloaded and if it has slipped much at all in it's life it may be too weak. No sense in taking a chance for all the effort to remove and repair the starter. i assume you are probably missing the cage and spring off the end of the starter and the drive gear is staying fully extended and not engaging the ring gear. That is the common failure of that bendix design and I assume why they changed the design. if you buy a new starter it will have the new design, but is completely interchangeable with the old design. You can buy roll pin bendix repair kits from your local repair shop, online parts houses or eBay seller for about $15 or $20 delivered. Most will be Stens kit, as good as OEM IMHO. There are several YouTube videos showing how to replace the roll pin type bendix. My only suggestion is that you support the shaft when hammering the roll pin out and back in, not just rap on the unsupported shaft the way they do on the video. Risk of bending the shaft and/or damaging the bushing in the drive end cap. Part number for kit without clutch is 696539. Kit with clutch is 696540. Stens part # 150-118 and NAPA also sells the full kit #SME703443 for about $22, but they will probably have to order it in, most stores do not stock. Sears parts house also sells them, do not have part number at hand.
Suggest you check the valve lash before you put the engine back in service if you have not done it recently. A lot of starter problems on Briggs OHV engines (and other brands for that matter) is too much valve to rocker clearance. Should be .004" to .006" for both intake and exhaust on a Vanguard V-Twin. These engines have automatic decompression for ease of starting, but that valves will not open if the valve lash is to great (like even .010) thereby effectively disabling the function. This makes for very hard starting where the engine want to stall when it hits the top of the compression stroke. Puts a much greater load on the starter and can damage the plastic gear, damage brushes and overheat the windings of the stator and armature. Setting the valves is very easy to do as long as you have a set of feeler gauges. Again, several good videos on YouTube showing how to do it or you can refer to the B&S website.
Hope this helps if you are still working on this. If not, maybe can help someone else that comes here looking for answers.
B
byronmill
After taking off the shroud cover and half of the engine I still can get to the top bolt on the starter braket. Also, as it semmes I have screwed up and removed the starter cover and am having trouble getting the brushes / cover back on. Oh yes at this pint I can see that it has a roll pin that I also can not get to It would have probaby been easier to have pulled the enging to start with. Any ideas on how to get the started cover back on. I think that I can beat out the roll pin once I get the cover back on. I would like to get out the top bolt but I do not see a way t do so.
Thanks, oh yes it has a plastic gear that was stuck during the last startup and it now smooth.
If you have not found your solution yet I can give you some advice. The 2 bolts are normally 13mm (can use 1/2" also) but Briggs says some newer ones (after 00 date code, or 2000) have 12 mm. They thread into the side of the block through the hole in the flange on the side of the starter motor. The one bolt you can get at with a standard socket and extension. The second one is partially blocked by the starter shaft/bendix combination. The 'simple" solution (also Briggs recommended procedure) is to obtain a 1/4" drive x 13mm (or 1/2") swivel socket. When used with an extension and ratchet this is just small enough to fit in there and remove the bolt. Briggs sells for about $30, SnapOn sells for $39 or so, I assume Sears would have it, probably some hardware/home stores. Must be 1/4" drive, 3/8 drive is just a bit too large. Universal and socket combination will not work. Only other real option is to pull off shroud and flywheel to get at the bolt. Yes, it is a lousy design.
Now your question about the brushes. You will most likely be unable to get them back in place without totally disassembling the motor, but you are already 90% of the way there anyway. Once you get the starter dismounted you can pull off the back end cap and then remove the brush holder. While you have it open you can clean up the commutator and check the brushes. If the brushes and the bendix are bad just bite the bullet and buy a new starter. 16 tooth PLASTIC gear and 4.25" case length are the critical specs. There are a multitude of B&S part numbers that cross for this starter, but the model number for your engine would be 499521. Home Depot sells them for about $85, you can get a good one on eBay for about $50 delivered. There are some cheaper ones, but I have heard some bad reviews on them. To replace brush holder you have to push the brushes back into the holder and put some short sections of welding rod or small nails, hanger wire to hold them in place. Put brush holder back in place in the starter body and over the commutator on the armature, remove pins and brushes are back in place. Lightly grease the end of the armature shaft and the bushing in the end cap and put back into place. There is a video on YouTube that dragonslayer45895 posted showing the service procedure. It is 2 parts, kind of down and dirty, but gets the job done. The starter he is servicing has the new Bendix arrangement using the spring clip instead of the roll pin, but you will get the idea.
Regarding the Bendix. you can get a repair kit yet for the roll pin style. There are two types of kits, one with the starter clutch and one without. The clutch is the part closest to the motor and has a metal flange with two flat edges to it, The plastic helix it part of that. I would suggest that you spend the extra few dollars and get the clutch. That clutch is designed to slip if the plastic gear is overloaded and if it has slipped much at all in it's life it may be too weak. No sense in taking a chance for all the effort to remove and repair the starter. i assume you are probably missing the cage and spring off the end of the starter and the drive gear is staying fully extended and not engaging the ring gear. That is the common failure of that bendix design and I assume why they changed the design. if you buy a new starter it will have the new design, but is completely interchangeable with the old design. You can buy roll pin bendix repair kits from your local repair shop, online parts houses or eBay seller for about $15 or $20 delivered. Most will be Stens kit, as good as OEM IMHO. There are several YouTube videos showing how to replace the roll pin type bendix. My only suggestion is that you support the shaft when hammering the roll pin out and back in, not just rap on the unsupported shaft the way they do on the video. Risk of bending the shaft and/or damaging the bushing in the drive end cap. Part number for kit without clutch is 696539. Kit with clutch is 696540. Stens part # 150-118 and NAPA also sells the full kit #SME703443 for about $22, but they will probably have to order it in, most stores do not stock. Sears parts house also sells them, do not have part number at hand.
Suggest you check the valve lash before you put the engine back in service if you have not done it recently. A lot of starter problems on Briggs OHV engines (and other brands for that matter) is too much valve to rocker clearance. Should be .004" to .006" for both intake and exhaust on a Vanguard V-Twin. These engines have automatic decompression for ease of starting, but that valves will not open if the valve lash is to great (like even .010) thereby effectively disabling the function. This makes for very hard starting where the engine want to stall when it hits the top of the compression stroke. Puts a much greater load on the starter and can damage the plastic gear, damage brushes and overheat the windings of the stator and armature. Setting the valves is very easy to do as long as you have a set of feeler gauges. Again, several good videos on YouTube showing how to do it or you can refer to the B&S website.
Hope this helps if you are still working on this. If not, maybe can help someone else that comes here looking for answers.
#10
B
benski
B
benski
byronmill, that was quite possibly one of the most eloquent responses to any question I've seen here on LMF. Thanks! :thumbsup:The only thing I'll pitch in is sometimes I'll smear a little Never-Seize on the helix of the starter. It seems to help those slide a bit better.
#11
G
guest2
Thank for for the great reply. Sorry I have been out of town and have not checked the replies. I have managed to get it back together and have started it several times all appears to be well.
G
guest2
If you have not found your solution yet I can give you some advice. The 2 bolts are normally 13mm (can use 1/2" also) but Briggs says some newer ones (after 00 date code, or 2000) have 12 mm. They thread into the side of the block through the hole in the flange on the side of the starter motor. The one bolt you can get at with a standard socket and extension. The second one is partially blocked by the starter shaft/bendix combination. The 'simple" solution (also Briggs recommended procedure) is to obtain a 1/4" drive x 13mm (or 1/2") swivel socket. When used with an extension and ratchet this is just small enough to fit in there and remove the bolt. Briggs sells for about $30, SnapOn sells for $39 or so, I assume Sears would have it, probably some hardware/home stores. Must be 1/4" drive, 3/8 drive is just a bit too large. Universal and socket combination will not work. Only other real option is to pull off shroud and flywheel to get at the bolt. Yes, it is a lousy design.
Now your question about the brushes. You will most likely be unable to get them back in place without totally disassembling the motor, but you are already 90% of the way there anyway. Once you get the starter dismounted you can pull off the back end cap and then remove the brush holder. While you have it open you can clean up the commutator and check the brushes. If the brushes and the bendix are bad just bite the bullet and buy a new starter. 16 tooth PLASTIC gear and 4.25" case length are the critical specs. There are a multitude of B&S part numbers that cross for this starter, but the model number for your engine would be 499521. Home Depot sells them for about $85, you can get a good one on eBay for about $50 delivered. There are some cheaper ones, but I have heard some bad reviews on them. To replace brush holder you have to push the brushes back into the holder and put some short sections of welding rod or small nails, hanger wire to hold them in place. Put brush holder back in place in the starter body and over the commutator on the armature, remove pins and brushes are back in place. Lightly grease the end of the armature shaft and the bushing in the end cap and put back into place. There is a video on YouTube that dragonslayer45895 posted showing the service procedure. It is 2 parts, kind of down and dirty, but gets the job done. The starter he is servicing has the new Bendix arrangement using the spring clip instead of the roll pin, but you will get the idea.
Regarding the Bendix. you can get a repair kit yet for the roll pin style. There are two types of kits, one with the starter clutch and one without. The clutch is the part closest to the motor and has a metal flange with two flat edges to it, The plastic helix it part of that. I would suggest that you spend the extra few dollars and get the clutch. That clutch is designed to slip if the plastic gear is overloaded and if it has slipped much at all in it's life it may be too weak. No sense in taking a chance for all the effort to remove and repair the starter. i assume you are probably missing the cage and spring off the end of the starter and the drive gear is staying fully extended and not engaging the ring gear. That is the common failure of that bendix design and I assume why they changed the design. if you buy a new starter it will have the new design, but is completely interchangeable with the old design. You can buy roll pin bendix repair kits from your local repair shop, online parts houses or eBay seller for about $15 or $20 delivered. Most will be Stens kit, as good as OEM IMHO. There are several YouTube videos showing how to replace the roll pin type bendix. My only suggestion is that you support the shaft when hammering the roll pin out and back in, not just rap on the unsupported shaft the way they do on the video. Risk of bending the shaft and/or damaging the bushing in the drive end cap. Part number for kit without clutch is 696539. Kit with clutch is 696540. Stens part # 150-118 and NAPA also sells the full kit #SME703443 for about $22, but they will probably have to order it in, most stores do not stock. Sears parts house also sells them, do not have part number at hand.
Suggest you check the valve lash before you put the engine back in service if you have not done it recently. A lot of starter problems on Briggs OHV engines (and other brands for that matter) is too much valve to rocker clearance. Should be .004" to .006" for both intake and exhaust on a Vanguard V-Twin. These engines have automatic decompression for ease of starting, but that valves will not open if the valve lash is to great (like even .010) thereby effectively disabling the function. This makes for very hard starting where the engine want to stall when it hits the top of the compression stroke. Puts a much greater load on the starter and can damage the plastic gear, damage brushes and overheat the windings of the stator and armature. Setting the valves is very easy to do as long as you have a set of feeler gauges. Again, several good videos on YouTube showing how to do it or you can refer to the B&S website.
Hope this helps if you are still working on this. If not, maybe can help someone else that comes here looking for answers.
Thank for for the great reply. Sorry I have been out of town and have not checked the replies. I have managed to get it back together and have started it several times all appears to be well.