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Hi all,

New to this forum and I sure hope you can help. I looked through some of the archive posts but couldn't find an answer for my question, therefore here I am.

Our son has a old Murray 20 HP twin with the three blade deck and it will not start. I replaced the starter awhile back and with the key on, jumped across the solenoid and the engine turned over. Therefore with my limited knowledge I assumed the solenoid to be the cause. Pulled the solenoid out to get the P/N which is a Trombetta 93265-10.

Went to the Web to find one and couldn't locate that P/N with the "-10", did locate one with a "-9". Can anyone tell me if a "-9" will work or since it is a lower "-" number might it be to small of an amp unit?

Also, since this is an old (heavy on the old) mower, chances are that this solenoid was upgraded/superseded at some point in the past. I looked for some kind of a replaced with reference, but with no luck. Is there someplace I can go to look up replacements for old parts?

I'm pretty certain if other old mowers are out there in use someone has had the need to replace this solenoid, if so what did you use?

Any and all help will be appreciated.

Thank You
Tom

Most older Murrays (and many other mowers) use a common solenoid, available at most mower shops and auto parts stores, see pics ..

...

here's a video , how to test the solenoid, Taryl acts stupid... but is VERY smart !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvW7VbsleZ0


did you test the solenoid before determining you REALLY need one, I had starting problems with my murrays and found it to be a poor ground ing of the solenoid itself, by adding an extra wire to solenold mounting bolt then to good spot on an engine bracket my issue ended. Also I can send you more info of P/N and parts dealers if needed .... let us know what happens

Also it would help if we had some info about YOUR machine, ( to find the manuals) see example...

Boobala,

Thanks for your reply.

Can't give you more info on mower as there is no data plate or other info that I can find, but it appears very old.

Enjoyed the YouTube video and it was very entertaining and tomorrow I'll run a test on the solenoid to be sure it is bad and not the switch or a grounding issue.

The one we have is the three post, 2 main (one from battery the other to starter) and the other from the switch, but unlike the picture you provided in your post, this one has a slip-on connector, not a bolt post connector. If the type we have is difficult to find , I could always crimp a post connector to the switch wire if you think that is an option.

Any P/N you think will work if it is bad will be appreciated. If you aren't sure I'll take this one to the local repair shop, hate doing that as on line prices are much better (we are retired and our son doesn't have any extra cash--you may understand that scenario).

Thanks again for your reply and feel free to add any other info you think may be helpful.
Tom

Tom old Murray said:

Boobala,

Thanks for your reply.

Can't give you more info on mower as there is no data plate or other info that I can find, but it appears very old.

Enjoyed the YouTube video and it was very entertaining and tomorrow I'll run a test on the solenoid to be sure it is bad and not the switch or a grounding issue.

The one we have is the three post, 2 main (one from battery the other to starter) and the other from the switch, but unlike the picture you provided in your post, this one has a slip-on connector, not a bolt post connector. If the type we have is difficult to find , I could always crimp a post connector to the switch wire if you think that is an option.

Any P/N you think will work if it is bad will be appreciated. If you aren't sure I'll take this one to the local repair shop, hate doing that as on line prices are much better (we are retired and our son doesn't have any extra cash--you may understand that scenario).

Thanks again for your reply and feel free to add any other info you think may be helpful.
Tom

Click to expand...

it's almost 11:00 pm , tomorrow is another day ......

Tom, I have a "boat-load" of info. on Murray mowers, (so do other members) I will try to help as much as I can, it would help immensely if you could post some pics of your machine, including the engine. maybe we can get a close match, ( MANY Murray parts are interchangeable between models & years. ) by looking at the following pics you'll see many part numbers, you can use to search for the solenoid of your liking, ..

click on pics to enlarge

......


......

More info. Tom,

https://www.ereplacementparts.com/murray-lawn-tractor-parts-c-17887_17888.html

since you have a 3 blade model, I will ASSUME .. correctly I hope , it's a 46in. cut deck & a 20 ?? HP eng.
click on the above link, when you get to the ereplacemant page of Murray mower models, SCROLL DOW to the 46 starting numbers ( 461000x71A ) I think is the first one click on it, scroll down to the diagram pages, click on the diagram you want enlarged, by looking at the mower pics in several models, (there are many) you might identify a match to your machine.. Sorry if I'm overloading you with info... Boobala

Solenoids are not mower dependent.
I keep only 2 universal heavy duty ones that get fitted to everything.
One is a 3 terminal & the other is a 4 terminal.
Both have bolt on control terminals with bolt on spades included so they can be coupled to either ring terminals or spade terminals.
Rotary sell the best one & it is made in Brazil .
Before you replace it check that it is the solenoid & not bad wiring.
I wrote this quite some time ago.

I like to start from the starter motor and go backwards .
Do the following 5 tests, regardless of the results from an or all of them as there can be more than one problem and you want to isolate where the problem lies.
Elimination of individual parts is important so you know by the end, the battery, solenoid & heavy power circuits are all in good order.

1) try to jump the starter motor directly from your car or truck.
Starter turns = starter good

2) do the same directly from the mowers battery
Starter turns = mower battery good
No turn = duff battery, recharge it & try again.

3) check for voltage ( + 12V ) at the solenoid trigger wire with the key in start position
3a) same with ground trigger wire ( 4 wire solenoid ) or body of solenoid ( 3 wire solenoid)
( I like to test V from the battery hot terminal to ground terminal rather than ohms as they give funny readings )

4) leave ground jumper in place ( from step 2 ) & try key start.
Starter turns = power connection good but ground connection suspect ( most common )
Confirm it by trying again, extra ground removed
I run a secondary ground from the grounding bolt to one of the starter mounting bolts & paint over both with liquid electrical tape.

5) Remove the trigger ( thin ) wire / wires from the solenoid.
Ground one & bridge from the hot terminal to the other.
Starter cranks = solenoid good.
Solenoid is not polarity sensitive, BUT THE WIRING IS so make sure you remove the thin control wires.
Note a thinner wire on the hot terminal is not a control wire. It is the main power feed to the mower.


From here on things become very mower dependant as starting circuits are getting changed all the time.
Basically the power goes in a loop from the hot side of the solenoid ( saves wire, no other reason ) through the fuse to the B terminal on the key switch then to the PTO switch then to the parking brake switch then to the solenoid trigger switch , easy peasy after you grow the 3rd arm. Use a test lamp and follow the power.
However a lot of mowers with a 4 pole solenoid, run a secondary ground control circuit to the ground solenoid wire through the lap bars.
Then to stop this interfearing with the normal safety function of the ground kill, it goes to a relay with the ground as the switched connection.
These are a PIA as the + control wire to the relay comes from the power loop above and the ground side of the control comes via the normal cut out functions of the lap bars.
Be very careful because if you have a system like this and accidentally send 12V down the ground loop you can fry the magnetos on some circuits.

Boobala.

Thanks for all your info and please don't worry about overload as I will digest and if need be ask more questions.

OK, here is were I am and sorry it took so long as I was unable to start early this morning. From your info and what I was able to get after removing rust and dirt, the mower is a 2000 Murray Garden Tractor 20HP twin with a 52 inch deck. From this it is a model 52101X92A with a current configured starter solenoid P/N 7701100MA.

Taking your info to heart I did the following, battery at 12.55 volts, 12.55 volts to battery side of solenoid, no voltage to the starter switch. Found the inline fuse (solenoid to switch) and it looked good, but had no continuity. Not knowing if starter switch was good, pulled it and tested as best as I could with the limited knowledge from the internet. The difficulty is this switch has 6 poles and all I could find were 5 pole videos and explanations. However, I was able to determine that in the off position it was grounding the Mag and in the start position there was continuity from the "power in" pole to the solenoid pole. Not exactly sure about how the run or safety stuff works through the switch, but all the safeties have been bypassed. I know it isn't very safe, but our son understands what he is dealing with until he can get something better.

Set things back up and installed a new fuse and now have power to the activation/energizing post on the solenoid and verified solenoid was grounded, but it still will not energize thus needs to be replaced.

Have ordered the 7701100MA solenoid, but do have a question to improve my understanding curve. Could the solenoid failure blow the fuse or may we have another issue that caused it?

Again thank you for all your effort providing the data and direction enabling me to get this far. After we get the solenoid and install it I'll post the outcome.
Tom

bertsmobile1,

Wow, thanks for your details and as you probably figure, I didn't see it until after my last post, we must have been drafting at the same time by noting the time stamp.

I'm not sure I follow all of you steps as I'm not all that knowledgeable about lawn mowers, but learning at a quick pace. Since, I've already ordered a solenoid and believe this one is bad, I'll keep your details handy should I need them and if I do, I'm certain you well need to walk me through some of it.

Thanks again and by chance, do you see any fault in my conclusions stated in my last post?
Tom

Tom, Bert is a very smart person ( about MANY things) glad he sent his procedures, and he's usually always willing to help, yeah being he's from "down-under" some of us have a lil difficulty in our interpretation of what he's trying to convey, but we all manage.
I noticed you said you may have a Model 52101x92A , did you find any I.D. on the machine or through the ereplacements model diagrams, I copied these 2 diagram pages, the elect. schematic, and the body , is this what YOUR mower resembles..?? If so good, then we have info. for the mower, see pics,

View attachment 34780 ...

NOW, we need the engine info. this SHOULD be on the engine itself, on a V-twin it's usually on a label & stamped into a valve cover , although it may be configured another way .. MORE pics ! ... I'm not sure where it's located on a opposed twin ?? and I don't know which you have ??

...



We definitely need this info or pics ( both preferred ) AND just to keep ya busy, ( LOL ) here's some reading material ...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6NaqjIxWV1ybHphbUNTQUNNR2s/view

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6NaqjIxWV1ySkZjTTA5TGltZEE/view



Take note, it's a waste of time and money to just keep replacing parts UNLESS you have tested them and it's PROVEN to be bad !!
Also, always go BACK to the last few posts, to make sure you have'nt skipped over a new post !!

Tom,
Download this file.
https://www.vanguardengines.com/content/dam/briggsandstratton/na/en_us/Files/FAQs/alternator_replacement.pdf
It has everything you will ever need to know about mower wiring in it.
At the end there are some generic wiring diagrams and note the connections at the starter switch.
If you get your magnafying glass out and look real close you will see either the letters MGBSAL or numbers 1 to 6 moulded into he back of the switch.
M & G you have already worked out
Bis battery and should always be 12 V (or better )
S= starter / solenoid and goes + 12V with the key in the start position.
A= Alternator and goes 12V when turned on ( supplies power to carb valve )
L = lights ( can also be A1, A 2 etc ) and this powers the lights

Boobala,

I'll try to answer your questions, what ever happened to everything needing fix'n was easy in my youth?

Today I looked for anything remotely looking like a data plate, nothing on either the mower or the engine. There is a "Murray 20HP Twin/52 Garden Tractor" decal on the hood and since somewhere in my past I remembered mower info being "vibra penciled" under the seat, I started scrubbing and brushing. Found three notation, 657-assumed the S/N, 2000-assumed the year of manufacture and 20-52-2-assume to be 20HP 52 inch 2 cylinders.

From that info I went to the ereplacement spread sheet and located a 2000 20 HP 52 inch lawn tractor but not the "garden Tractor". Using other search efforts I found a listing for the 20 HP 52 inch Garden Tractor and it was the same model number as the ereplacement lawn tractor, that is how I came up with the model number 52101X92A. The Attachment 34780 you sent will not open and the electrical diagram is the one I tried to use with my limited knowledge.

As for the engine, the is no data and tomorrow afternoon after church I'll remove the heat shields and see if the valve covers have any data.

Thanks again for your assistance,
Tom

Bert,

Thank you for the reference, have down loaded it and took a quick look. This is the first diagram and narrative addressing the 6 pole switch on this mower. When I had the switch out and running continuity I don't believe I was getting the results shown on the diagram.

The switch I pulled out was a P/N 3XXXXX (didn't write it down) and I couldn't located that P/N on the internet, but did cross it on ereplacement even though I think it was a 5 pole, so I'll cross that bride if I need to. I guess the switch could also be bad, but this is a mower without any of the safeties and doesn't have lights so I'm not sure exactly what is needed when one runs continuity. The engine runs very well and since my son just needs something until he is in a better position to get a new one, I can justify spending a few dollars to keep it running and with the willingness of you guys I may be able to.

Thanks again for your help, these mowers are far to integrated and requires a level of knowledge I don't have, but I'm trying. I assume the newer ones are even more complicated than this older one. I'll keep you updated.
Tom

Yeah,
people keep on doing stupid things then getting a smart attorney to prove it is not their fault.
The the mower companies keep adding stuff to stop people doing things that even a 1/2 wit would realize is both stupid & dangerous.
Thus the owners handbooks now days have 20 pages of *** covering drivel that no one reads then 3 pages of instructions and every maintenance job is listed as "take to an authorised dealer"
I some times wonder if this over reaction of the courts is guilt from the Eugenics of the "Progressive Era" so the pendilum has swung from 1/2 the population is genetically stupid to no one in the entire country is stupid and every thing is always some one elses's fault.

the cranking circuit goes B - S -PTO switch -Brake switch - trigger wire on starter solenoid.
It is a daisy chain so if any one does not close nothing happens.
The magneto you have already worked out it goes from M + G to open circuit.
The other positions provide power for other things like the electric clutch &/or carby cut out.
It also connect the alternator to the battery so it can be recharged.
Some mowers have headlights so the switch also hooks the headlamps

Boobala,

The additional info you asked for, engine model #460777, code #9909135B, type #2277 E1 (there might be a decimal point between the two 7s, just not sure).

I guess between you and Bert I may come out of this issue with my son's mower knowing enough to start a part-time business, LOL.

Thanks for your interest and help.
Tom

Checked out your engine numbers, seems you DO have the Briggs OPPOSED twin. ( which I know nothing about ) my experience is with my own Intek V twin. I already sent you the O/H manual, ( hope you downloaded it ? ) and I could not locate an Original Briggs parts manual, but, they're copied into some after-market sites ( see below )

https://www.ereplacementparts.com/b...engine-parts-c-16758_17347_245378_245446.html

https://www.partstree.com/parts/bri...0777-2277-e1-briggs-stratton-vertical-engine/

AND, you're not sure of the mowers model number, 2 more pics below, one is considered a LAWN-Tractor, (small rear wheels)
and the GARDEN-Tractor has the larger ones .

...

Also, your answers have me wondering,.... you said at one point it had been running, also the safety-switches ... you by-passed them ..???
It might be a good idea, if possible to give us the ENTIRE story behind the situation with your mower WHAT, & HOW it came to this non-start issue .

Oh Yeah Tom... Where's the pic's ????

AHhh yes Tom, more food to digest ( LOL )
I don't know what's going on with YOUR ign. sw. but some probing in my files shows that you should have ign. sw. P/N 92377
( 6 pole sw.) does your switch AND wiring match the following ...

G = Yellow
S = Orange
L = Violet
M = Black
B = Red
X = White
there may be more than 1 wire to each terminal, also, F.Y.I. ..


I'm thinking that this mower was running then something occurred and it quit and now won't start, am I correct ..??

Boobala,

Thanks again for the “more food to digest”, don’t know how much more my “Gray Matter” can handle before going into overload (LOL). Let me see if I can answer your questions before I get into the good news –bad news.

OK, hopefully the pic will post, but if not it looks like the red one you posted with large wheels, except it is a dark green.

The mower was running great and in fact I was the last one to use it (my son is an over-the-road driver) the night before it decided to not start. That morning the battery was at 12.55 volts and there was no clicking of the solenoid. From that point I’ve detailed everything I did in my posts so I’ll not repeat them here.

As for the history, last fall was the first time our son and his wife have had a place requiring them to mow and lived to far away for us to trailer ours and take it to them, even if we had time. Not having a lot of money for a new one (as parents we weren’t going to buy one for them, after all it was his yard), we found this one for a little over $200, knowing it was ruff and the safeties had all been bypassed, but the engine appeared strong, mower deck worked great, our son has a good head and he has been very careful to minimize any chance of something happening which a safety would have prevented. That also goes for me when I’ve done his yard. It ran great all season, started every time and ran strong except for once throwing a belt.

Now on the switch, that info you sent was spot on, wiring/pole placement and color codes, except this P/N is 3497644, not P/N 92377 and even with a magnifying class couldn’t find any lettering/numbers around or near the poles. I’m assuming it is/was either an aftermarket someone installed or a really early P/N long ago superseded as I could find no info on the internet. Anyway, as per your info I retested the pole continuity and everything matched. Conclusion, the switch had nothing to do with this failure to start.

Now for the good news-bad news, got the new solenoid today and late this afternoon installed it after testing it. Hooked everything back up as it was before I jumped into this mess and tried to start it. Here is what happened, the solenoid clicked/energized as it should (the old one never clicked) but the starter didn’t turn over. Got my meter back out and these are the readings.

Battery 12.5 volts, solenoid battery post 12.5 volts, key on “start” mode, solenoid trigger post 12.5 volts, solenoid outlet post (to starter) 12.5 volts, at starter post 12.5 volts. Then metered continuity starter case to ground and back to “-“ at battery, all good readings. As an afterthought I ran continuity between the starter voltage input post (from solenoid) to ground and I registered complete continuity. I’m not the brightest bulb in the box, but is that a normal reading for a starter? I’m wondering if way-back-when when I jumped across the solenoid and later ran a jumper cable directly to the starter from battery if I somehow shorted it out.

Now there is the history and exactly where we’re at, only the names of the innocent and been changed to protect the guilty.

As always any input you think I should have is welcomed and here is the picture:



Tom

Engine date is 09/13/1999
You have 2 models to choose from
52100x92A - Garden Tractor (1999)
52161x89A - Garden Tractor (1999)

Figure out the one you have here.
https://www.jackssmallengines.com/j...els/lawn-garden/riders/garden-tractors/52-cut

Tom, ..
First off, remember, YOU are my eyes & ears, it's difficult to try helping someone fix something on-line, so I need you to understand, your mower is not in front of me. I will continue to do what I can to help, I'm grateful for your patience, and the fact ,it appears you have mechanical knowledge and are not afraid to get your hands dirty. And there are many other members here with a hell of a lot more knowledge than myself,(some are dealers ! ) That being said .. lets get to work,

the new solenoid now at least clicks, OK this is what I would do, .. first check the oil, we don't want to waste effort on a seized or blown eng. next I would pull the plugs, and see if I could turn the flywheel by hand, ( hopefully you can ) here is where I'm reminded about the blown fuse, it coulld have blown from something "locked-up" or just a short in the wiring.
Next, take a known GOOD charged battery and jumper cables, attach the POS. cable to the Batt. POS. and to the eng. starter input terminal, ( yes I know it's old territory BUT I'm not there , remember ..?? ) THEN, connect the NEG. cable end to either the mower frame, or on an engine bracket, or block, whatever.. making VERY SURE the connections are CLEAN & snug, then hold the end of the NEG. on the NEG. battery term, hopefully the starter spins the engine ... and quickly, ... if not, I would remove the cables, then remove the starter, and test it off the engine, I'm sure you know how to do that, hopefully it's good, if not, I would suspect that may have caused the fuse to blow, with the starter off try to rotate the flywheel, is it turning freely or dragging, ( is the BLADE ENGAGE lever in the OFF position ..?? ) If it's dragging we have other issues, IF the engine rotates easily, and the starter checks OK, then I would reinstall the starter, and reconnect the battery (in the mower) being VERY SURE the cables are NOT worn, or frayed and have CLEAN TIGHT connections, ESPECIALLY, the GROUND cable ! RE-check the voltages at the battery itself, then at the solenoid (AGAIN) , if all checks out OK, try to start with the key, if NO-GO, then I would remove the wire harness connector from the IGN. sw. ( yeah I know it's a (PITA) ) but .... then "jump" the battery and solenoid terminals of the harness connector (should be the RED & ORANGE terminals, (use a piece of wire of decent size, or a pair of needle nose pliers) IF .. it rotates the eng. GOOD, !! I would then suspect the IGN. sw. is bad, then, I would reinstall the plugs, and move the throttle lever WIDE-OPEN, and pour a small amount of gas into the carburetor inlet, ( best to remove the air filter to do that, NOW try to crank it with the jumped IGN. sw. if no go, I would suspect possibly the mag, is grounded out. OR ??? ... hopefully it will fire-up briefly, but let's get this far, and see what happens, OK ..?? Sorry if you think I'm trying to treat you like a "dip-schitt" but as I said ..YOU are MY eyes & ears now. I'm trying to HELP YOU ! so bear with me Tom !..:thumbsup:

Boobala,

I thank you for YOUR patience, understanding and willingness to help and I am very grateful.

I’ll try to go over sometime this morning and get started on the steps you outlined, pretty sure I follow/understand what to do.

Not trying to question your thinking, but maybe you can explain where I went wrong in mine. Last evening I had 12.5 volts at every stage, battery, solenoid battery post, solenoid trigger post, solenoid output post and at starter post and the starter didn’t turn. To my understanding from the material you have sent me, that circuit being completed should indicate the switch was working correctly— having voltage at the starter should have made it turn, what am I missing here? Also, after I get through the steps you outlined, if it still doesn’t crank/turn over should I wait before putting gas into the intake?

A couple of your suggestions I should have thought about, the known good battery because I don’t know if there was enough amps available to turn the starter, hand spinning the engine and of course bench testing the starter.

Thanks again for your help and I’ll get back with you later.
Tom

Have you tried the starter on the bench..? if you have power going to it and it will not turn.

Yes even as Engineman says, It looks like your starter may have "went on a looonng vacation", everything is pointing that way, IF you feel everything up to the starter is good, then just pull the starter and test it off the engine, BUT be sure to check the engine is free to rotate, if something in the eng. is locked up, that's good reason to fry a starter ! I'm hoping it's NOT the starter, only because I know you said cash is tight, and from what I've seen online THAT starter is priced up there, of course you might be able to rebuild it or get a cheapy used one somewhere, BUT, lets take it one thing BEFORE the other.

AND don't you worry, I promise I'll drain every cent out of ALL your bank accounts, get you into foreclosure on your house, taking possession of your EVERY vehicle, your family deserting you, and you winding up on HomeLand Security's WatchList !!

Awww Cmon, I'm jus kiddin, .. ya gotta at least smile,

Boobala,

Wow, that is one heck of a promise, it takes all that to get on a HLSWL. I just thought if I buy my grandson a BB gun, ammo for a .22 short single shot rifle or ate broccoli was enough to be on the no-fly HLSWL. As for the rest of your promise: draining the bank account-no big thing, but don’t expect much; foreclose on the house-that means I don’t have to paint it in the spring-how do I loose on that?; family deserting me-late on that one also as my first born son’s wife made that part of the family desert us last year because we voted different than her and didn’t support one of her political issues (something about a pink p__sy hat); what does that leave, oh the vehicles-if you really want this mower I’m sure my son will sell it to you for a small profit plus a large shipping and handling fee.

Now back to work, went to the mower and started through your list, good known battery, jumped to mower battery turned key with only solenoid clicking and then jumped directly to the starter, nothing. Next I took the cowling off and rotating the fly wheel and it turned freely-good no engine seizure.

Started to remove the starter to bench test it, but noticed I could rotate the bottom of the Bendix thereby rotating the starter shaft (somewhere in my past I remembered that also was a way to check a starter). You guess it, turned the key and the darn thing started and ran great until I tried to turn it off and it didn’t. So, because of all the reading material I’ve digested, I started looking and found where I didn’t reconnect the mag ground wire. Good reason why there are disclosures to "not try this at home" on everything nowadays.

Here is my thinking and please let me know if I’m in the ball park, apparently I shorted out a small portion of the armature when I was directly jumping to it in the beginning of all this. Therefore, any time that armature stops at that location, the starter isn’t going to rotate and the engine will not start. However, for at least some unknown period of time, if I rotate the lower part of the Bendix and thereby the starter shaft, we should get a successful start. At some later date, I’ll let my son decide when, we’ll probably go with an aftermarket starter I found for around $35 with free shipping verses an OEM for $85-100, doesn’t appear logical to use the OEM when viewing the age and condition of this mower.

Thanks for all your assistance and for the education, also thanks to the others who have chimed in to help, those effort were also much appreciated. Now, unless someone has another reason, I’ll go back this afternoon and put everything back together, but if this machine hiccups again you will have the pleasure of playing the instructor again.

This issue once again verifies a lifelong saying; it isn’t necessarily the journey as much as it is an adventure.

Thanks again.
Tom

Well Tom, glad ya got it solved, (albeit not entirely,) yeah I would say it's the starter armature too, yeah I checked the price on the starters also, same price ranges you found, the OEM Briggs IS well over $100.00 you know what to do!, while I was checking things out, I ran across more "food" ..( LOL ) I did find a you-tube with a "trick to changing the starter" and some other Briggs info. The Briggs one has the parts manual SPECIFIC to YOUR eng. model, the info. will always ..??? be here on your thread for later reference, I'm glad to have been of assistance along with the other guys, I am REALLY glad you have a good sense of humor, and you're pleasant to work with, Tom, .. you take care, and Happy Holidays if we don't hear from ya for a spell, but don't be stranger, "the light is always on" ..later..Boobala


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii_EavaRhGc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBhYQ91ZBp0

https://shop.briggsandstratton.com/us/en/www-old/support/manuals/results?NTT=460777-2277*