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I see that most folks here recommend fabricated decks. I see that they are generally thicker and stronger, but what other benefits do they have? Do they actually give a better cut? I have only had stamped decks on the only two lawn tractors that I have ever owned. They both have been fine except for loading up with cut grass pretty easily.
Thanks,
Bruce

Brucebotti said:

I see that most folks here recommend fabricated decks. I see that they are generally thicker and stronger, but what other benefits do they have? Do they actually give a better cut? I have only had stamped decks on the only two lawn tractors that I have ever owned. They both have been fine except for loading up with cut grass pretty easily.
Thanks,
Bruce

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I honestly can't say as far as better cut. However most of the mowers I have had over the years it seemed that the deck was a weak link. I have had several stamped decks that just could not take the punishment. A fabled deck is much more durable and can take much more punishment and still come back for more.

A stamped deck is just structurally flimsy compared to a Welded steel deck, and in commercial usage the welded steel deck is far superior. One thing though, stamped decks are much lighter and probably better suited for homeowner use as long as they are kept clean, and before they are put up for the winter they need to be thouroughly cleaned and oiled. As long as they are not allowed to rust, they can last a long time. They do tend to crack if they are abused.
I had to reweld a wheel strut on mine but so far it is holding up quite well.
Before I put my mower up for the winter, I remove the deck and pressure wash it, let it dry, and treat the bottom with spray lubricant. It has a little rust but it isn't getting worse and seems to be holding it's own. Leaving a deck all clumped up with grass all winter is what destroys most stamped steel decks!

Brucebotti said:

I see that most folks here recommend fabricated decks. I see that they are generally thicker and stronger, but what other benefits do they have? Do they actually give a better cut? I have only had stamped decks on the only two lawn tractors that I have ever owned. They both have been fine except for loading up with cut grass pretty easily.
Thanks,
Bruce

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I had a John Deere dealer trying to sell me a $6,000 ZTR with a stamped deck tell me that John Deere's research had proven that a stamped deck(rounded design) gave a better professional cut than a fabricated deck(squared angles where welded by design). Right......that's why the JD ZTR's that cost $10K and up have fabricated decks:0)
I used to HATE having to clean out the grass clippings and dirt buildup every time I mowered with my 2006 Craftsman 54" lawn tractor(made by Husqvarna) and before that my 1993 True Value Lawn Chief lawn tractor!!!! No, these both were before they came out with the garden hose attachment for doing that. I even tried sprayng underneath the Craftsman deck when I first brought it home with ZEP teflon-based silicone(dries to a hard/slick surface....not "wet" silicone lubricant) and that didn't help. You don't clean them.....you throw a belt. All I can say is with 9.2 hours on my Gravely, I don't know if it is the fabricated deck design or the 18,000 fpm blade tip speed, but all I have seen underneath it's deck after mowing my yard a dozen times is a "green stain"....absolutely NO BUILD UP!!!! Can't say that I miss that fun job of spraying underneath the deck 12 times:0)
Does that influence you towards fabricated????:0)

Thanks for the info everyone. My present Craftsman is 14 years old (about 570 hrs) and has a stamped deck. I clean it before each use with a putty knife to clean off the huge globs of grass that build up on it. Before winter I remove the deck and clean it pretty thoroughly. It is still in pretty great shape. I am looking to get a ZTR, but will likely keep the Craftsman to clean up the leaves with my DR vacuum.
Thanks again,
Bruce

Old Goat said:

Just got off my Big Dog cutting the 2.3 acres for the second time.

No wonder they named it that! The rest need to stay on the porch!

1.5 hours and used only about 1.5 gallons of fuel. I'm getting better and more impressed with each use!

The neighbor cut his yesterday with their Toro and the cut quality of the two yards is very markedly different. Both cut within 24 hrs of each other, 1 1/2 weeks ago and today. I only passed over mine ONCE. Mine is closest, theirs is full of hay, see below.

Nuff said?

I agree with DJ about the residue under the deck. Waste of time to try to clean it.
Go ahead & flush it with the hose connector fitting and see how long it lasts? I think my son's JD lawn tractor made maybe about three years before he was having to weld up the rust out areas!




What a piece of junk, http://www.toro.com/en-us/homeowner/...r-ss5000-74631

Charles​

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I cut 4 acres with my Kubota ZD 326 yesterday in slightly under 2 hours. I didn't see how much fuel it burned yet but. Bet it is about that or less.

Kubota will send the big dog to the porch with his tail tucked between his legs.

I also have a little ZG 222 with a 48 inch deck that will cut 4 Acres in under 3 hours.

jekjr said:

I cut 4 acres with my Kubota ZD 326 yesterday in slightly under 2 hours. I didn't see how much fuel it burned yet but. Bet it is about that or less.

Kubota will send the big dog to the porch with his tail tucked between his legs.

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Big Dog R754 @ $4,800
Kubota ZD 326 @ $10,800

Really, I would hope you got something better for $6000 more.

Charles

In the old days this would be a Ford v. Chevy argument...:laughing:

TheCaffeinatedOne said:

In the old days this would be a Ford v. Chevy argument...:laughing:

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More like Pontiac vs Cadillac. It's a "Discussion", or "fact finding mission". :thumbsup:

TheCaffeinatedOne said:

In the old days this would be a Ford v. Chevy argument...:laughing:

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I work for a Ford dealership, but drive a Chevy pickup LOL!

Brucebotti said:

I see that most folks here recommend fabricated decks. I see that they are generally thicker and stronger, but what other benefits do they have? Do they actually give a better cut? I have only had stamped decks on the only two lawn tractors that I have ever owned. They both have been fine except for loading up with cut grass pretty easily.
Thanks,
Bruce

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Are the Fab decks better, do they actually give a better cut? That is a debatable subject. To find out the first thing you need to do is run a comparison of the two on the same type mower if possible because you can't compare the cut from a deck off a lawn tractor with that of a ZTR. There is no comparison of those two. I never seen a lawn tractor that wouldn't plug with grass and become built up over time with a stamped or fab deck and the biggest reason for it is most likely the blade tip speed of somewhere around 13 to 15000 so trying to compare that BTS to a ZTR with an 18 to 19000 BTS is going to be hard to do. I can say that probably there is not enough difference between a stamped deck cut and a fab deck cut to even really notice. I ran two Cub Cadet Z Force ZTR's one 44"(stamped) and one 48"( Fab ) and you couldn't tell which yard was mowed by what mower, both were excellent cuts and neither one ever plug but at the same time I ran the CC LT 1045 with a 46" stamped deck and it had a fair cut for a LT but plugging up the deck and build up was a continual problem, all because it didn't have the ability to cut and throw grass as efficiently as a ZTR and they all ran a 20 or 22 hp engines.

Now the fabricated decks are generally thicker, stronger, and generally heavier than the stamped decks but because of the thicker, stronger and heavier cost more money and can cost a little more to operate. The benefits to a fab deck is that they will take more abuse than a stamped deck that's the reason most Commercial operators opt for the fab because they abuse the crap out of deck when it's used six days a week. My suggestion to you if you're a homeowner and buying a mower for a once a week deal or cut is I wouldn't worry about the stamped deck, if you take care of it like you should take care of your mower it will last you for years of cutting.

I'm guessing you don't think I was telling the truth in post 5?

Ric said:

Are the Fab decks better, do they actually give a better cut? That is a debatable subject. To find out the first thing you need to do is run a comparison of the two on the same type mower if possible because you can't compare the cut from a deck off a lawn tractor with that of a ZTR. There is no comparison of those two. I never seen a lawn tractor that wouldn't plug with grass and become built up over time with a stamped or fab deck and the biggest reason for it is most likely the blade tip speed of somewhere around 13 to 15000 so trying to compare that BTS to a ZTR with an 18 to 19000 BTS is going to be hard to do. I can say that probably there is not enough difference between a stamped deck cut and a fab deck cut to even really notice. I ran two Cub Cadet Z Force ZTR's one 44"(stamped) and one 48"( Fab ) and you couldn't tell which yard was mowed by what mower, both were excellent cuts and neither one ever plug but at the same time I ran the CC LT 1045 with a 46" stamped deck and it had a fair cut for a LT but plugging up the deck and build up was a continual problem, all because it didn't have the ability to cut and throw grass as efficiently as a ZTR and they all ran a 20 or 22 hp engines.

Now the fabricated decks are generally thicker, stronger, and generally heavier than the stamped decks but because of the thicker, stronger and heavier cost more money and can cost a little more to operate. The benefits to a fab deck is that they will take more abuse than a stamped deck that's the reason most Commercial operators opt for the fab because they abuse the crap out of deck when it's used six days a week. My suggestion to you if you're a homeowner and buying a mower for a once a week deal or cut is I wouldn't worry about the stamped deck, if you take care of it like you should take care of your mower it will last you for years of cutting.

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Ric,
I would love for a Husqvarna dealer to let me have a YTH48K48(stamped deck) and a YT48XLS(fab deck) lawn tractor to mow side by side with!!! Even though they are lawn tractors....wouldn't that be the comparison you are eluding to???

Old Goat said:

I'm guessing you don't think I was telling the truth in post 5?

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Truth has nothing to do with it, if you're referring to me. You are running the Big Dog 754 The diablo I believe and you are trying to compare it to a Toro ss5000, you are comparing a commercial mower to a residential mower, if it doesn't have a better cut I'd take the piece of junk back to the dealer. Run your comparison as I said before on the same type or classification of mower, one with a stamped deck, one with a fab and you'll find very little difference. Your 754 is a commercial mower if you want the Comparison try putting it up against the Toro Z master and find out who has the best cut. That's the type comparison you need to run.

Ric said:

Truth has nothing to do with it, if you're referring to me. You are running the Big Dog 754 The diablo I believe and you are trying to compare it to a Toro ss5000, you are comparing a commercial mower to a residential mower, if it doesn't have a better cut I'd take the piece of junk back to the dealer. Run your comparison as I said before on the same type or classification of mower, one with a stamped deck, one with a fab and you'll find very little difference. Your 754 is a commercial mower if you want the Comparison try putting it up against the Toro Z master and find out who has the best cut. That's the type comparison you need to run.

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Ric,

Actually, all things considered, I would view the Big Dog R-Series ZTR as a high-end Residential ZTR comparable to a Gravely ZT HD or a Toro Titan MX. The Big Dog might hold it's own when compared to the new 2013 Gravely Pro-Turn "entry level" Commercial(between the ZT HD Residential and my Pro-Turn XDZ100 Commercial-entry level last year) or the Toro Z-Master 2000 series entry level Commercial but it would be tough for it to outweigh those two's overall specs. By all means I agree with you that a comparison of the Big Dog R754 to a SS5000 Timecutter would be apples and oranges and user Old Goat may have needed to think through that comparison a little more before posting it.

I did. The original question was as to cut quality.

I had a stamped deck mower for 13 years and was always aggravated with the cut.

The cut quality and the absence of cleaning a fabbed deck leaves me in awe.

And although Toro does not even state what the blade tip speed is, one would assume that a ZTR with the same engine as the one I have would be somewhere in the ballpark of being the same.

Ric said:

Are the Fab decks better, do they actually give a better cut? That is a debatable subject. To find out the first thing you need to do is run a comparison of the two on the same type mower if possible because you can't compare the cut from a deck off a lawn tractor with that of a ZTR. There is no comparison of those two. I never seen a lawn tractor that wouldn't plug with grass and become built up over time with a stamped or fab deck and the biggest reason for it is most likely the blade tip speed of somewhere around 13 to 15000 so trying to compare that BTS to a ZTR with an 18 to 19000 BTS is going to be hard to do. I can say that probably there is not enough difference between a stamped deck cut and a fab deck cut to even really notice. I ran two Cub Cadet Z Force ZTR's one 44"(stamped) and one 48"( Fab ) and you couldn't tell which yard was mowed by what mower, both were excellent cuts and neither one ever plug but at the same time I ran the CC LT 1045 with a 46" stamped deck and it had a fair cut for a LT but plugging up the deck and build up was a continual problem, all because it didn't have the ability to cut and throw grass as efficiently as a ZTR and they all ran a 20 or 22 hp engines.

Now the fabricated decks are generally thicker, stronger, and generally heavier than the stamped decks but because of the thicker, stronger and heavier cost more money and can cost a little more to operate. The benefits to a fab deck is that they will take more abuse than a stamped deck that's the reason most Commercial operators opt for the fab because they abuse the crap out of deck when it's used six days a week. My suggestion to you if you're a homeowner and buying a mower for a once a week deal or cut is I wouldn't worry about the stamped deck, if you take care of it like you should take care of your mower it will last you for years of cutting.

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Ric,
Thanks for the great answer. It was very well explained and even I can understand it now....:laughing:

Couldn't you improve the cut on a lawn tractor by increasing the tip speed using different pullies? Of course I realize that there may be other issues to take into consideration.

Thanks again for the explanation!
Bruce

Old Goat said:

I did. The original question was as to cut quality.

I had a stamped deck mower for 13 years and was always aggravated with the cut.

The cut quality and the absence of cleaning a fabbed deck leaves me in awe.

And although Toro does not even state what the blade tip speed is, one would assume that a ZTR with the same engine as the one I have would be somewhere in the ballpark of being the same.

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Old Goat,
Cut quality.....good point in that a lot of people will think they will get the same cut quality spending $3,000 on a ZTR that those who spent $6,000 get. And as far as longevity for those two categories of ZTR's.....two $3,000 ZTR's do NOT = 1 $6,000 ZTR(in the time that 2 $3k's last end-to-end versus the time that 1 $6k lasts either).

djdicetn said:

Old Goat,
Cut quality.....good point in that a lot of people will think they will get the same cut quality spending $3,000 on a ZTR that those who spent $6,000 get. And as far as longevity for those two categories of ZTR's.....two $3,000 ZTR's do NOT = 1 $6,000 ZTR(in the time that 2 $3k's last end-to-end versus the time that 1 $6k lasts either).

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Precisely my point DJ.

Attached is a couple of screen shots of the Hustler brochure about their VX4 Commercial machine that I used in deciding on my purchase. It gave me the criteria that I used to formulate my decision to buy a quality product. Deck design and blade tip speed are so important to selection of a ZTR.

The dollars spent on a mower is not to be taken lightly, IE "let's spend the minimum and get a ZTR". Spending $3000 on a big box machine and getting the results shown in my pictures of the neighbors yard has got to be discouraging to say the least. Why do that and get the poor results shown is mind blowing. Spend a bit more and be happy. It doesn't have to be double.

Watching my wife cut grass with the new machine we bought, I am in awe of how fine and far the clippings fly out. That is the best explanation I can see of why we don't find the residue under our ZTR decks that we saw before with the lawn tractors.

Yes, deck design is important!

Charles

Old Goat said:

Precisely my point DJ.

Attached is a couple of screen shots of the Hustler brochure about their VX4 Commercial machine that I used in deciding on my purchase. It gave me the criteria that I used to formulate my decision to buy a quality product. Deck design and blade tip speed are so important to selection of a ZTR.

The dollars spent on a mower is not to be taken lightly, IE "let's spend the minimum and get a ZTR". Spending $3000 on a big box machine and getting the results shown in my pictures of the neighbors yard has got to be discouraging to say the least. Why do that and get the poor results shown is mind blowing. Spend a bit more and be happy. It doesn't have to be double.

Watching my wife cut grass with the new machine we bought, I am in awe of how fine and far the clippings fly out. That is the best explanation I can see of why we don't find the residue under our ZTR decks that we saw before with the lawn tractors.

Yes, deck design is important!

Charles

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Old Goat,
You know...that deck looks surprisingly similar to the deck on my 52" Gravely. The difference on mine is that it's a little more "pointed" in area "O"; has two anti-scalp wheels in area "J"(similar to the wheels in area "G") instead of the single, wide nose roller and has two additional anti-scalp wheels in area "N"(on each side of the middle area brackets). But all things considered very similar. I would venture to guess that the "Turbo Force" deck that is on the Commercial Toro Z-Masters looks very similar underneath too. Like you said......deck design is a very important feature where cut quality is concerned and you get what you pay for. And yeah, I really thought I would need a mulch kit, like I had on that 54" Craftsman(Husqvarna) lawn tractor with the stamped deck, but the dealer smiled and said "mow with it before you spend that money because this machine is in a different league than that Craftsman". Like you, I've yet to witness the first evidence of grass clippings laying around when I'm finished mowing. The mulch kit would have been useless(except for "maybe" fertilizing my lawn a wee bit better) but pretty well a waste of my money in regard to getting rid of piles of grass clippings.

I have come to the conclusion that mulching kits are designed primarily for the sales peoples retirement fund.

I know I've came in a little late but I really consider the deck design on the YTH24K48 to be pretty sturdy in it's design. It has a 10yr warranty just on the deck itself. Here's a picture. And it's the smoothest cut I've ever had in a rider.

TnHusky said:

I know I've came in a little late but I really consider the deck design on the YTH24K48 to be pretty sturdy in it's design. It has a 10yr warranty just on the deck itself. Here's a picture. And it's the smoothest cut I've ever had in a rider.

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TnHusky,
Yep, for a stamped deck, Husqvarna adding that reinforcement around their decks was a move in the right direction fo adding durability!!!

Guys I find this discussion interesting... I even tried to have this discussion months ago... to me this is not rocket science, assuming a stamped deck is strong enough to provide the stable platform the blades need to rotate at a high enough speed to cut, then and only then would the actual shape matter. Not the stamped vs welded part. I believe it comes down to blade speed, stability and the ability of the deck to move the grass out from under it after it cuts it. In this instance I think a fabbed deck has an advantage since it generally has baffles and contours to move the grass. If you add the baffles to a stamped deck, and drive the blades at the same high speeds... I can't see how it would matter at all. However if you then do something stupid like running both decks into a tree root... I think the fabb'ed deck will always win. I had my 1st ztr for 3 hours when I was mowing around a tree and ran the deck over a root. I killed the engine and after restarting it... would not start the blade. It had actually warped the deck as well as bent the blade and caused the blade to jam on the bottom lip of the deck! I took it to the dealer who promptly showed me what i had done... I used it for anothere 15 years after leveling the spindle with washers and buying a new blade. Since that time I have always made sure I knew what I was about to run the deck over... I think the reason most stamped decks have a worse cut is due to the fact they are on cheaper mowers and have lower blade speeds as well as other cost saving parts. The other thing I believe is... a big reason ztr's (or any mower where the engine is run at max speed) has a better cut than the avg cheap riding mower is the engine speed gives the greatest blade speed and the hydo trans manage's ground speed . I used to use the throttle on my 1st riding mower to manage ground speed and the quality of the cut had to suffer for it. At the time I just did not understand the relationship between engine speed and blade speed.

djdicetn said:

TnHusky,
Yep, for a stamped deck, Husqvarna adding that reinforcement around their decks was a move in the right direction fo adding durability!!!

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I really can't see how reinforcing the deck with a 14 gauge welded steel tube for added durability on the trim side is going to improve its durability. I would think as far as wear and durability goes that would come from underneath the deck and not the outside. To me improving the perimeter of the deck against Impact and abuse isn't going to help the wear factor of the deck, the only way you will help that is to increase the thickness of the deck. Most mowers with stamped decks, Push mowers, Riders and ztr's come with skid plates that serve the same purpose.

Old Goat said:

Big Dog R754 @ $4,800
Kubota ZD 326 @ $10,800

Really, I would hope you got something better for $6000 more.

Charles

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Yeah, you could have gotten a Jacobsen 628D 4wd and filled the porch with all other comers....

I have a toro HMR 1600 that is 1989 model with the then commercial deck that was stamped with the heavy duty greaseable cast iron spindles have over 3350 hrs on mower and it still has original spindles and deck but I do take the deck off every year pressure wash it clean [4000 psi 4 gal min] let it dry and prime and paint it and grease spindles every month has been best mower I have ever had. Got a newer toro G3 ztr and there are plus and minus to each mower the G3 is heavy around 1500 lbs so it gets good traction on hills but extra weight burns a lot more fuel more than twice what my 850 lb HMR used. So you have to mow different patterns to no leave ruts. And actually my old HMR mowed better around trees and bushes because it turned on four inch circle .

My dad bought a Husqvarna 42" LT in 2006 and took it back a couple times while still on warranty because of uneven cuts. Blades were lined up with the mower off and at least 1/2" or more difference down the center of the cut ? Got me a Gravely ZTX last year and just love it. My dealer also advised not to buy a mulch kit till I tried without it. Don't need it.

SCMCG said:

I work for a Ford dealership, but drive a Chevy pickup LOL!

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I bet the boss likes that. Just kidding!!!!!!

Gotta have some fun.