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Shorting at positive battery cable - AKA I screwed up

#1

B

bobotwg

Hello people. I messed up. Troy-bilt Pony 1000. Started with an ignition switch that wore out. I was impatient (stupid) and thought that I could hot wire it and mow. Wrong answer. Sparked somewhere near the starter solenoid. Bought new solenoid and a metal ignition switch that TSC said would work. Replaced both and the 20 amp fuse located near the solenoid (blown). Tried to start and it's sparking at the positive battery cable. I have a multimeter but only know how to check continuity and voltage level. I just am not sure what to do next. Thank you in advance for any assistance you can offer.

BoboTWG


#2

tom3

tom3

If it's sparking at the cable you have either a loose connection or a corroded cable inside the terminal I suspect.


#3

S

slomo

Buying non OEM parts is not wise in lawn mowers. TSC parts might very well work. They could have different pin-outs which might be your case now.

slomo


#4

R

Rivets

I’ll bet you were given the wrong switch, they may look the say but the terminals are different. Look at the back of each switch terminal and check the letter stamped on it.


#5

StarTech

StarTech

What about giving us the model number off the serial number tag and the part number of the switch they sold you?


#6

S

slomo

Post up pictures of all the "new" parts you bought. Details will help a lot.

slomo


#7

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

searched for the Troy Bilt pony 1000 ignition switch came up with Part number 925-04659
searched that on tractor supply and it showed it as an OEM MTD part.


#8

K

keakar

slomo said:
Buying non OEM parts is not wise in lawn mowers. TSC parts might very well work. They could have different pin-outs which might be your case now.

slomo
Click to expand...
this 1000x this ^^^^^^^^

as far as i know and have ever seen, those metal switches are only used for snappers and murray mowers

go buy the correct oem switch and then plug it in then undo whatever you tried to do to the wires

chances are its this one or one just like it https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Igniti...BBEV2bDemotion&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851


#9

S

slomo

Scrubcadet10 said:
searched for the Troy Bilt pony 1000 ignition switch came up with Part number 925-04659
searched that on tractor supply and it showed it as an OEM MTD part.
Click to expand...
TSC said that part does NOT include the ignition key. Who would ever need or use the key????? :rolleyes:

slomo


#10

B

bobotwg

tom3 said:
If it's sparking at the cable you have either a loose connection or a corroded cable inside the terminal I suspect.
Click to expand...
Thank you. I will follow the wires an d check. Sorry it took so long to reply, I was watching my e-mail for alerts.
Aaron


#11

B

bobotwg

slomo said:
Buying non OEM parts is not wise in lawn mowers. TSC parts might very well work. They could have different pin-outs which might be your case now.

slomo
Click to expand...
Thank you. I will order an OEM replacement. Sorry it took so long to reply, I was watching my e-mail for alerts.
Aaron


#12

B

bobotwg

keakar said:
this 1000x this ^^^^^^^^

as far as i know and have ever seen, those metal switches are only used for snappers and murray mowers

go buy the correct oem switch and then plug it in then undo whatever you tried to do to the wires

chances are its this one or one just like it https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Ignition-Key-Switch-w-Key-for-MTD-725-1741-925-1741-Lawn-Mower-Tractor/324066833569?_trkparms=aid=1110006&algo=HOMESPLICE.SIM&ao=1&asc=20200520130048&meid=738775d7aef64b44845edc84f11452e1&pid=100005&rk=4&rkt=12&mehot=sb&sd=322504123311&itm=324066833569&pmt=1&noa=0&pg=2047675&algv=SimplAMLv5PairwiseWebWithBBEV2bDemotion&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851
Click to expand...
Thank you very much. You're right, of course. Was thinking metal was better. Will purchase correct OEM part. Sorry it took so long to reply, I was watching my e-mail for alerts.
Aaron


#13

B

bobotwg

slomo said:
TSC said that part does NOT include the ignition key. Who would ever need or use the key????? :rolleyes:

slomo
Click to expand...
That makes no sense. Kinda stupid. I got the one I bought because I asked the employee at the desk instead of doing my own homework. Thank you.


#14

B

bobotwg

Rivets said:
I’ll bet you were given the wrong switch, they may look the say but the terminals are different. Look at the back of each switch terminal and check the letter stamped on it.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the response. I did not know about the letters on the switch terminals. Big help.
Aaron


#15

B

bobotwg

Scrubcadet10 said:
searched for the Troy Bilt pony 1000 ignition switch came up with Part number 925-04659
searched that on tractor supply and it showed it as an OEM MTD part.
Click to expand...
Thank you. I would have saved alot of headache if I had looked up the part number myself. Thank you for the reply.
Aaron


#16

B

bobotwg

I can't thank everyone here for the great responses I've received. I apologize for the late responses, I was waiting for alerts to hit my
e-mail.

Here are some pics. My model # sticker plus 3 pics of the ignition switch I bought which I will be replacing. I can't find the switch packaging but it's irrelevant since I will not be using it.

mower a.jpgignition02a.jpgignition03a.jpgI've looked at a few sites and am trying to get it here the quickest. The only way to get one in less than a week is if I order this one. Is Oregon just another MTD/Troy-Bilt.. mower but under yet another name?
Oregon 33-106 Ignition Switch Replaces 925-04019, 725-04019, Black
No? Yes?

Attachments





#17

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

Oregon is a parts manufacturer/seller.
Usually cheaper, quality alternative to an O.E.M part.


#18

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

I don't think that Oregon switch will work,
Using your model number, the MTD part is 925-04659, looked up the Oregon part, and nowhere does it say it will replace the OEM part...


#19

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

Look up a
Stens 430-185
listed as exact replacement.


#20

B

bobotwg

Scrubcadet10 said:
Oregon is a parts manufacturer/seller.
Usually cheaper, quality alternative to an O.E.M part.
Click to expand...
Cool. Thank you. Will not be doing that.
Aaron


#21

B

bobotwg

Scrubcadet10 said:
Look up a
Stens 430-185
listed as exact replacement.
Click to expand...
Thank you very much. Ordering it now.
Aaron


#22

B

bobotwg

I'm back. I received the new started solenoid and ignition switch and installed them this morning.(Parts below) I hooked up the battery then went inside to get a key. Came back out and the is smoke rolling off the engine. I disconnected the starter switch (wires were HOT) and then disconnected the battery. I have no idea what happened. I didn't mess with wiring. There's no way to mess up installing the switch and I believe that the solenoid was correctly installed (picture attached). All of the red wires are on the left and the black on the right.

Stens 430-185 Ignition Switch, Replaces John Deere GY00191,Black
Starter Solenoid AM138068 725-04439 fits John Deere MTD Cub Cadet Lawn Tractor



solenoid.jpg


#23

R

Rivets

You have something screwed up with your solenoid wiring. The two large terminals on the solenoid should only have one large cable each. One is the cable coming from the battery (this is the cable with the large and small wire) and the other going to the starter.


#24

B

bobotwg

Rivets said:
You have something screwed up with your solenoid wiring. The two large terminals on the solenoid should only have one large cable each. One is the cable coming from the battery (this is the cable with the large and small wire) and the other going to the starter.
Click to expand...
Thank you Rivets. I'm guessing you or someone else that looked at that picture shook their head and said "Dumb 4$$". I'll post again when this is done.
BoboTWG


#25

R

Rivets

Don’t beat yourself up over it. You might not believe this, but I’ve seen worse.


#26

B

bobotwg

I removed the extra red wire from the equation. I'm back to it sounding like it's shorting out at the battery. Pic of the solenoid below. There is also a pic of the "extra".
mower5.jpg

Attachments





#27

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

have you been able to trace or see where the extra red wire might go to or end?
13WNElectrical22.gif This diagram may help...


#28

StarTech

StarTech

If I am seeing right he has the battery ground on one post and the battery positive on the other but techs are bad not the correct color replacement wires.


#29

B

bobotwg

Scrubcadet10 said:
have you been able to trace or see where the extra red wire might go to or end?
View attachment 53233 This diagram may help...
Click to expand...
I'm going out to try again. My uneducated eyes looks at this diagram and thinks that this mower should be much simpler to work on if they didn't put all of these safety switches. No, I'm not going to try that.


#30

B

bobotwg

OK. The one thick red wire goes to the positive post on the battery. The "extra" thick wire goes to the starter motor. The thick black wire goes to the negative post of the battery.


#31

B

bobotwg

BTW. I can't even figure out where the battery is on the schematic.


#32

B

bobotwg

Figured it out. Google works.


#33

B

bobotwg

OK. Please correct me if my brain has missed something because if no one does, I'm trying it in the morning. Looking at the wiring diagram and another basic diagram, should I have a thick red connecting to BOTH large terminals? That way power is provided to the starter when the solenoid closes? It makes sense to me. BTW Thank you all very much for your time and sharing your knowledge.
Aaron

Attachments







#34

R

Rivets

I think that is what I said in post #23.


#35

StarTech

StarTech

I think most us was trying to drop a hint but sometimes we got to take someone by the hand. With the way it was in the picture I wouldn't be surprised that the new solenoid is toast now due to the short circuit. Unless you got a solenoid shift the second image is nearly useless. Since you are having so much problems doing this either go look at another mower's setup or get someone to help that knows a little more about how to wire the mower.

Probably I am a little blunt here but being hard headed by not asking for local help with in over your head can be costly at times. Most techs are not knowledgeable about electrical wiring. That probably why a third of my repairs are electrical in nature due wiring screw ups. It was good that I spent two years studying electrons back in 77-79 and have the rest of my life working in electronics and electrical industry. It did take a little rethinking when I started seeing DC electrical circuits using AC electrical wiring color code setups. This is why we got to have the actual mower model numbers to lookup wiring diagrams as some manufactures use black (AC electrical) as positive and others use black (DC electrical) as ground (negative).

I had one guy here that listen to others over the net and had replaced his voltage regulator, starter, solenoid, and stator because his mower would not start. He finally brought it to me where I found it was simply a bad terminal at the ignition switch. He was out nearly $300 for a $0.50 terminal.


#36

B

bobotwg

Rivets said:
I think that is what I said in post #23.
Click to expand...

I think I misunderstood you. I thought that to meant that only the thick black wire and one of the thick red wires should be on the large post of the solenoid. The grand-kids came by for a visit and just left. I'm going to try what I posted above. Wish me luck.
Aaron


#37

B

bobotwg

StarTech said:
I think most us was trying to drop a hint but sometimes we got to take someone by the hand. With the way it was in the picture I wouldn't be surprised that the new solenoid is toast now due to the short circuit. Unless you got a solenoid shift the second image is nearly useless. Since you are having so much problems doing this either go look at another mower's setup or get someone to help that knows a little more about how to wire the mower.

Probably I am a little blunt here but being hard headed by not asking for local help with in over your head can be costly at times. Most techs are not knowledgeable about electrical wiring. That probably why a third of my repairs are electrical in nature due wiring screw ups. It was good that I spent two studying electrons back in 77-79 and have the rest of my life working in electronics and electrical industry. It did take a little rethinking when I started seeing DC electrical circuits using AC electrical wiring color code setups. This is why we got to have the actual mower model numbers to lookup wiring diagrams as some manufactures use black (AC electrical) as positive and others use black (DC electrical) as ground (negative).

I had one guy here that listen to others over the net and had replaced his voltage regulator, starter, solenoid, and stator because his mower would not start. He finally brought it to me where I found it was simply a bad terminal at the ignition switch. He was out nearly $300 for a $0.50 terminal.
Click to expand...


#38

B

bobotwg

Don't worry about being blunt. It actually worked. I actually never thought to just go look at another's mower. I generally don't talk to people. Disabled vet with PTSD and many medical issues. Yes, I know I'm an asshole. Talked to a neighbor that I know and am going to check out his riding mower after this storm moves on. Thank you for your help.
Aaron


#39

B

bobotwg

Hello people. I've got it turning over. (Exclamation point doesn't work, need new keyboard). I thank each of you from the bottom of my heart for your time and knowledge. It's not starting yet. Going to check for spark and check out the carb because I know fuel is at least reaching there. I've cleaned out smaller push mower carburetors so I'm going to watch some vids and see what happens. Closing this thread. (Do I have to do something to close it?) I'll start a new one if I need more help. Have a great rest of summer.
Aaron


#40

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

bobotwg said:
Don't worry about being blunt. It actually worked. I actually never thought to just go look at another's mower. I generally don't talk to people. Disabled vet with PTSD and many medical issues. Yes, I know I'm an asshole. Talked to a neighbor that I know and am going to check out his riding mower after this storm moves on. Thank you for your help.
Aaron
Click to expand...
Thank you for your service to our country.


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