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I picked up an 8 hp Roper and wanted to get it going. It is not rusted too bad but has spent the last two years stored outside. I cleaned the carb and fuel tank. Added a new fuel line and changed to oil. Now I want to test fire it.

So I hooked my power pack to the battery (dead battery) and tried to jump it. Had parking brake engaged, gear shift in neutral, and turned the key. Nothing happened, not even a click. My ignition switch is suspect as there is a lot of play in the key and how far the key rotates, goes past the start position. I don't want to rip anything apart just yet, without checking for a few more suggestion.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Berniebac said:

I picked up an 8 hp Roper and wanted to get it going. It is not rusted too bad but has spent the last two years stored outside. I cleaned the carb and fuel tank. Added a new fuel line and changed to oil. Now I want to test fire it.

So I hooked my power pack to the battery (dead battery) and tried to jump it. Had parking brake engaged, gear shift in neutral, and turned the key. Nothing happened, not even a click. My ignition switch is suspect as there is a lot of play in the key and how far the key rotates, goes past the start position. I don't want to rip anything apart just yet, without checking for a few more suggestion.

Anyone have any thoughts?

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Solenoid possibly stuck.
Connect battery pack. turn ign key to on.
Bridge 2 large wires on solenoid. engine should turn.
Or safety switch.

Battery may also be so bad that it is drawing all your jumper current. Try disconnecting battery and then jumping.

Thank you for the responses. I disconnected the battery terminals and tried to start it from the power pack and it was no go. I shorted across the solenoid and she started to turn over. So, I am guessing a new solenoid would be appropriate.

It would not start up. I kept it shorted for about 20 seconds and it would not run. Never even sputtered. That shorting is hard on a screw driver. But, at least it turned over.

When I get a chance I think I will check the gap between the flywheel and the coil assembly. Just by sight it looks a little too wide. The spark plug wire is cracked quite bad also, so I may be looking for a new coil unit before too long.

I wish I had a compression tester. Mine is metric and won't fit in the spark plug hole.

Anymore thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Did you have the key in the run position when you tried to start it? If not try again.

Rivets said:

Did you have the key in the run position when you tried to start it? If not try again.

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No, I held the key over all the way in the start position, but the engine never even sputtered. It kept rolling over, but would not begin to start.

So, I held in the start position thinking that I would have to do that until it jumped to life, then put it in the run position. It just never had any life at all, other than the starter rolling it over and over.

Well I made some progress tonight. I cleaned the magnets on the flywheel and cleaned the four contacts on the coil ( 2 facing the magnet, and the 2 where it mounts to the motor). I checked for spark by shorting it against the motor and had good spark.

I placed a jumper on the solenoid from the battery contact to the safety switch contact. Then, I hooked my power pack up to the battery cables, with no battery in at all.

I turned on the power pack and the engine rolled over, so I guess I could have a bad solenoid, or a bad safety switch. The engine would roll over, but would not catch. So, I pulled the plug and it was as dry as when I put it in.

I thought I might try a teaspoon of gas in the cylinder and see if it would catch. I poured about 1/2 a teaspoon in from a syringe I had laying around and popped the plug back in. I turned on the power pack and it jumped to life for a couple revolution. Repeated this a few times and it ran each time. It seems like there is some life left in the old girl after all.

I did do the thumb test, placing my thumb over the plug hole and rolled the engine over. The back pressure did not want to push my thumb off the hole, but there was certainly pressure there. I just couldn't make a tight seal trying to push mt thumb in to the front of the engine.

Now, I just have to figure out how to get gas to flow thru the old flo jet carb, and it just might run. I have cleaned the carb and set the screws out 1 1/2 turns, but no gas seems to get thru.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Make sure you have gas getting into the carb. Next put some gas into the carb, just like you did in the cylinder. If this goes no where, wevwill have to look at some thing else.

Rivets said:

Make sure you have gas getting into the carb. Next put some gas into the carb, just like you did in the cylinder. If this goes no where, wevwill have to look at some thing else.

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Thanks for the advice. I will give it a try, but it may be a few days. I can't get to it right now, so I will check back in later.

I also realized that when I cleaned the carb (flo jet) I did not clean the long tube that passes down thru the middle, so I might pull that and make sure it is clean. I think all the gas has to go thru it to get to the engine.

That is your main nozzle and make sure the small holes are clean.

Rivets said:

That is your main nozzle and make sure the small holes are clean.

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I have finally gotten back to working on my Roper (B&S) engine. When I last posted I could get it to run by pouring gas in the cylinder, putting the plug back in, and turning it on. It would run for a couple seconds till the gas burned off.

It would not run when I hooked the fuel line to the carb. So today I pulled the carb off. When I pulled the fuel line, gas ran out of the line till the tank was empty. So I assume gas is not entering the carb. When I took the bowl off there was no gas in the bowl, that seems to confirm that none is getting past the first needle that lets it into the bowl.

I also noticed that the float does not sit parallel to the carb body. (See attached pic). It sits at quite an angle to the body. I read somewhere that it should fit parallel to the body, so I think I will adjust that first. I also pulled out all the needles, the main nozzle, and the nozzle that the main nozzle sits on top of. Cleaned all parts with carb clear and poked a small wire through all the tiny holes.

I will add another post with additional pics of the carb in just a few minutes. I hope you will recognize it and offer some suggestions.

I appreciate any help in trying to get this thing to run again. I would like to get it to run, before I spend any money on it. If it goes, I'll probably get a carb kit and see if it helps. I don't think I would recognize a bad seat, or a worn out needle so I don't know if new parts would even help.

Some additional pics of the carb torn apart on my work bench.

Looking at your pics I think you have found the problem, float height. It should rest parallel to the base. You will need to adjust the float tab. After you adjust it blow on the fuel inlet ( with your mouth, I hope you don't mind) and see if it holds pressure. If it does put the carb back together and try it. If it doesn't you will have to put a new needle and seat in. Good Luck

Rivets said:

Looking at your pics I think you have found the problem, float height. It should rest parallel to the base. You will need to adjust the float tab. After you adjust it blow on the fuel inlet ( with your mouth, I hope you don't mind) and see if it holds pressure. If it does put the carb back together and try it. If it doesn't you will have to put a new needle and seat in. Good Luck

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I reset it to parallel and blew into it and I could blow air into the carb. I did this before I read your post and I thought that was a good thing. If air goes in, gas should go in. I reassembled the carb, put it back onto the tractor and hooked up the gas line. The gas flowed right thru it and onto the ground. As soon as I saw that, I did not try to start the tractor.

I guess that means that the inlet valve controls the flow to the point that gas will not go into the bowl until you try to start and run the engine. I suppose if the bowl was full from the last use it would start on that and the engine vibrations would make the needle open and close to allow gas into the engine.

While it was apart I looked at the needles under a magnifying glass and they looked scored, maybe even bent but hard to say.

I will order the carb kit and giver her the overhaul. At least I got gas into the carb, I have spark, and I can get it to roll over. Not a bad place to begin.

I also noted that my inlet needle did not have that little viton tip on it. I wonder if it is supposed to?

Thanks for your help.

First, did you have it turned upside down so that the needle is closing the seat. if yes rebuild. You could try this first for fun. Disconnect the fuel line and see if you can start the engine. If it starts let it run until all the fuel is removed from the carb. This will tell you if everything else is working. It may not run smooth, but at least you'll know it works.

Rivets said:

First, did you have it turned upside down so that the needle is closing the seat. if yes rebuild. You could try this first for fun. Disconnect the fuel line and see if you can start the engine. If it starts let it run until all the fuel is removed from the carb. This will tell you if everything else is working. It may not run smooth, but at least you'll know it works.

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Do you mean have it upside down when I blow into it? I think I had it right side up when I blew into it and air would flow into it. I was thinking the same thing about trying to start it. In an earlier post you had suggested pouring a little gas into the carb and trying to start it. I will give it a try in a few minutes when the fumes die down.

Upside down so the needle is sealing against the seat under the weight of the float.

Rivets said:

First, did you have it turned upside down so that the needle is closing the seat. if yes rebuild. You could try this first for fun. Disconnect the fuel line and see if you can start the engine. If it starts let it run until all the fuel is removed from the carb. This will tell you if everything else is working. It may not run smooth, but at least you'll know it works.

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I just tried to start it but it would not run on the gas in the bowl. Not a kick. It did seem to blow some gas back out of the carb when I stopped rolling it over, I don't mean gas, but almost like a steam rose out of the breather hole. I don't have the air filter, or the metal cover in place while trying this.

Just let some gas into the carb and see if it will start with the choke on or off. Try both ways

Berniebac said:

I wish I had a compression tester. Mine is metric and won't fit in the spark plug hole.

Anymore thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

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The standard spark plug hole is metric. 14MM. I have never seen anything differant then some older cars and tractors had 18MM. When I say older like back in the 1930's.

reynoldston said:

The standard spark plug hole is metric. 14MM. I have never seen anything differant then some older cars and tractors had 18MM. When I say older like back in the 1930's.

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Well, you would think that it would have fit. I'll try it again and see if I can get it to go in. I didn't want to force it for fear of stripping the gauge or the spark plug hole. It is in a difficult spot to get it to align with the plug hole. You have to put it in thru the grill and try to line it up.

Thanks

reynoldston said:

The standard spark plug hole is metric. 14MM. I have never seen anything differant then some older cars and tractors had 18MM. When I say older like back in the 1930's.

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I tried again and with some gentle twisting it did go in. I used my jumper pack to roll the engine over and it shows only about 70 psi. Not sure that is enough to make it worth rebuilding this thing or not.

I won't quit just yet, we'll see where it leads to.

Thought I would provide an update. I picked up a carb kit and cleaned the carb out. Struggled to get the carb kit complete, but With the help of Rivets, I got it together correctly.

Put the carb on tonight, hooked up the gas line and hit the key. It started. Ran rough, with some black smoke that I hope will disappear when I get a chance to adjust the needles on the carb. Tried it in each gear and the tranny works (it's up on blocks at the moment, no wheels on it).

I think I will start to strip the body panels off and strip and paint them.

Congratulations, now let's adjust that carb. 1. Start the engine and bring up to full throttle. 2. Slowly back out the high speed needle until the engine starts to bog down. 3. Slowly turn the high speed needle in until it starts to bog down and then out 1/4 turn. It should now be running pretty smooth. 4. Let's start on the idle circuit by bringing the throttle down as low as possible to stay running. 5. Repeat steps 2&3 on the idle needle valve only turn the idle needle 1/8 turn at the end. If you did it right it should run smoothly through all speeds. Good Luck.

Rivets said:

Congratulations, now let's adjust that carb. 1. Start the engine and bring up to full throttle. 2. Slowly back out the high speed needle until the engine starts to bog down. 3. Slowly turn the high speed needle in until it starts to bog down and then out 1/4 turn. It should now be running pretty smooth. 4. Let's start on the idle circuit by bringing the throttle down as low as possible to stay running. 5. Repeat steps 2&3 on the idle needle valve only turn the idle needle 1/8 turn at the end. If you did it right it should run smoothly through all speeds. Good Luck.

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I tried to adjust the carb today by following your instructions. I only got to Step 3 as I was turning the high speed needle in, the revs were increasing and it was running very smooth, but all of a sudden it just stalled. I did get it started once more after that, it ran at high revs, then stalled again. Maybe I got it a little too lean????? My booster pac is out of power so I have to recharge it before I can go further.

I said I would post a few pics once I got a chance. I am concerned about the throttle stop screw as the screw does not turn in far enough to touch the stop. I can't see how this can be used for adjustment, if it does not touch the stop. I suspect someone has tinkered with the governor so that the governor link and the link spring are not in the correct position. It is hard to see as the pic is blurry, but you can see the screw is a long ways away from the stop. I took this pic looking in from the side through the hole the muffler is supposed to come thru. The other two pics are shot from the top looking down on the carb and the governor control plate. I hope these help show what I am working with.

You will also see that someone sprayed paint on some of the cooling fins for the engine. I am going to have to get that off of there somehow, if I get this to run.

I took a video of it starting and running and provided the link below. I am not the best videographer, so my apologies for the shaky camera that drifts off the subject.

102_0001.mp4 video by Berniebac - Photobucket

I made the adjustments to the carb as suggested by Rivets and have it running as smooth as I can get it. I still have two problems that I would like to clear up if any one can tell me what they might be and what the fix is.

First, the engine makes a popping noise that seems to go along with the sputter coming out of the exhaust, but when you are standing at the engine you can hear this pop, pop ,pop.

Second, the exhaust fumes really stink. I don't see a lot of smoke from the exhaust, but the fumes are awful.

Any help greatly appreciated.

Sorry I haven't been back to you and I don't have time tonight, but I hope to have time tomorrow to offer some advice.

No problem. I am not in a panic to get it done. Its a project that will take me a while to complete. I appreciate any help you can offer.

Forget to tell you don't run the engine for more than a couple minutes without shrouds. They are a big part of the cooling system, and you can overheat the engines very fast.

Rivets said:

Forget to tell you don't run the engine for more than a couple minutes without shrouds. They are a big part of the cooling system, and you can overheat the engines very fast.

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Really, I never would have thought of that. I don't think I will do anything further till I hear back from you if you have any more suggestions. I have not pulled the flywheel to inspect the points. Not sure if they could be responsible for the noise and slight miss that I hear in the engine or not.

I'm back and I think we can solve your problems. First I would like the shrouds back on. When you turn the high speed needle in it is very common for the speed to increase. I WOULD LIKE YOU TO FIND A VIDEO ON THE WEB ON HOW TO SET THE GOVENOR BEFORE YOU GO BACK AFTER THE CARB. It is very difficult for me to explain with out pics. Sorry. After setting the governor, start with step #3 again. The stalling you experienced is probably due to a too lean mixture, as you thought. (Before looking at your pics I assumed that you had a large one-piece Flo-Jet carb) If I was correct you will just follow my past instructions. It will have a high speed needle coming in from the bottom. Looking at the top pic of the carb, you have two adjustments on the top. The one with the spring is the idle mixture needle. The other one is the high speed jet, leave it alone. IF I GUESSED WRONG AND YOU HAVE A SMALL ONE PIECE FLO-JET CARB, you will not have a needle on the bottom. In that case the needle closest to the air intake is the high speed needle and the other is the idle needle. Just follow the steps, but the needles are in different places. Go slow, if you feel that the engine is revving too high either bring the throttle down or stop and we'll start over in another direction. Good luck.

Rivets said:

I'm back and I think we can solve your problems. First I would like the shrouds back on. When you turn the high speed needle in it is very common for the speed to increase. I WOULD LIKE YOU TO FIND A VIDEO ON THE WEB ON HOW TO SET THE GOVENOR BEFORE YOU GO BACK AFTER THE CARB. It is very difficult for me to explain with out pics. Sorry. After setting the governor, start with step #3 again. The stalling you experienced is probably due to a too lean mixture, as you thought. (Before looking at your pics I assumed that you had a large one-piece Flo-Jet carb) If I was correct you will just follow my past instructions. It will have a high speed needle coming in from the bottom. Looking at the top pic of the carb, you have two adjustments on the top. The one with the spring is the idle mixture needle. The other one is the high speed jet, leave it alone. IF I GUESSED WRONG AND YOU HAVE A SMALL ONE PIECE FLO-JET CARB, you will not have a needle on the bottom. In that case the needle closest to the air intake is the high speed needle and the other is the idle needle. Just follow the steps, but the needles are in different places. Go slow, if you feel that the engine is revving too high either bring the throttle down or stop and we'll start over in another direction. Good luck.

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Rivets;

My carb has a needle on the bottom of the bowl and one on top with a spring on it. High speed on the bottom and idle mixture on the top. I am certain, from pics I have in a manual I borrowed from the library, that it is a large one piece flo-jet carb. I followed your instructions and got it running to the state that it shows in my video. Pretty good instructions I'd say. I also think the stalling may have been due to lack of gas. I was only putting a small amount in the tank to test run it in case I had to tear it all down again. At least in one case I am certain it ran out of gas.

I will check the web for a video on how to adjust the governor and will try to get that set up. I will also reinstall the shrouds to avoid overheating before I run it further. I will follow up with a post once I have a chance to adjust the governor. We are in for a few days of rain here so I might be a while before I get back to it. Will keep you posted. Thanks.

Your manual may also show how to set the governor.

Sorry I have been away for a few days and haven't had a chance to work on the tractor. Shrouds have been reinstalled to assist with cooling.

Finally got back to the engine today and I have set the governor according to the instructions in the manual that I have. At least I have it adjusted as best I can. My manual suggested the use of a tach, which I do not own, and could not find one to borrow. It said to adjust the idle to 1550 rpm, then adjust the throttle stop to increase the idle to 1750 rpm, then turn the governor screw in till it contacted the governor plate. Since I don't have a tach, all I could do was to adjust the idle by ear.

I have it running pretty good at the moment, but I still have a slight sputter every now and again. But I can increase the throttle to the max, and return it to idle and it is not stalling, or cutting out. It seems pretty good to me, but if I could get it to run as smooth as possible that would be much better. I still hear the occasional popping noise up near the carb. I can't tell if it is the throttle stop screw hitting against the throttle stop, or if it is coming from the engine. Would a valve sticking make a popping noise?

The exhaust does not smell too bad either. So far I am impressed with the way it runs. Any suggestions as to what I might want to try next?

Keep in mind this tractor was stored outside for three years and has not run since it was laid up. I haven't pulled the flywheel to take a look at the points, so would this be advisable?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions you have.

I would let it go, could be a variety of causes, from valves, hot carbon, oil, small air leak, ignition system. Unless you are a perfectionist, I won't worry about it. Only thing I would do is add a little fuel additive a couple times this summer just to clean up any varnish or gum you may have missed. Congrats!!

Thank you Rivets. I really appreciate your guidance and patience in helping me with this engine. I think I will move on to restoring all of the body panels by sanding and repainting them. Nothing too fancy, just brighten Her up a little. I don't think I could have gotten this far without your help.