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Since there is no BD sub-forum (yet), here it shall reside.

In my new ZTR quest , and it be where the steering component is more of a wife friendly design, I came across 2 designs that have met my criteria, in combination with ZT-3XXX trans and KW engine, the BD Powerbar and CC Z-force S.

Luckily, the closest dealer to me is a Hustler and BD dealer, he has graciously let me trial the Powerbar this weekend to see if he could close the deal.
Since this a unique mower, I figured I'd break out the camera and give you the nickel tour.

The unit in question:


Since it arrived somewhat dirty, so I didn't have to worry about getting it that way......


It steers and throttles like a motor-cycle....... hmmmm, will ape hangers work?


Control panel. Hour meter is mounted below, down the side of the tank.


She's a wide ride, with junk in the trunk.



It has great forward speed. It allowed me to do my yard in 32 minutes, with first time jitters use and not actually being the owner yet. I'm happy with the results. The only snafu right now is using reverse. I feel like a special needs person, because it's like total bass ackwards to normal use. Control is really responsive, like quick steering ratio, and is really one handed use friendly.
To the playground:
East side, wife likes circles


North side, 10ｰ slope



West side, with the dreaded swale from hell, and all its 30ｰ glory.


And finally, the South side. This swale is more user friendly, with up and down mowing without any scalping.



This has been a ztr noob report. Let me know if you would like any further pics of particular areas.

Steve

RatRacer,

VERRRRYYY interesting(BTW, nice lookin' Chevy's:0). My one-and-only concern if I were buying(knowing I want "Commercial" quality/durability) is the FR series Kawasaki(Residential rating). Can you get an engine upgrade to the Kawa FS(Heavy Duty) series or FX(Commercial) series...my preference??? And what kind of OTD(Out-The-Door) money is the dealer talking about on this? No doubt, though a nice looking high-end Residential mower(with a fine-looking cut).

P.S.
How many "total" anti-scalp wheels does the deck have??? From the front view looks like one on left(from rider view) and a nose roller, but none on the right(chute) side...kinda unusual. Are there any on the rear of the deck?? They also are braced with a single L-angle brace. On my Gravely there is a dual nose roller and one on each side of the front(double, not single angle iron bracing). See attached picture for what I am referring to about the anti-scalp wheels. It also has two rollers in the back on the inside of the deck. Of course there doesn't appear to be any indications of scalping in your pictures.

RatRacer,

I bet you are impressed. I wanted to try one of those, but the wife said no when she sat on it, so I walked away.
We got the one with the regular handles and seemed to get adjusted to it rather quickly. She was quicker than I was!

Yours has the same engine and other hardware mine has, it's quite a stout machine. AND it matches your Camaro! You sure have a lot of swales on your lot, but the BD looks to have handled them OK. How about those 12" wide rear tires? I get real good traction from them.

I too was wondering about the deck not having a scalp wheel on the RH side and have found that it not an issue at all, in fact none of the other wheels seem to ever touch the ground. I don't have nearly as many swales as you have.

I also like being able to set the deck height in 1/4" increments, many others are only 1/2" settings.

Charles

Check out the Country Clipper.

Country Clipper zero-turn mowers have zero-turn radius capability

SCMCG said:

Check out the Country Clipper.

Country Clipper zero-turn mowers have zero-turn radius capability

Click to expand...

SCMCG,
I checked that out and there is a forum user that owns a Country Clipper that really likes it. The flip-up deck design is nice, but when I look at their entry level Commercial model(Jazee_Pro_DLX) on their website I find a ZT-3100 tranny(even though "serviceable", my Gravely entry level Commercial came with the ZT-3400....considered "commercial" quality). Also, the weight of that Country Clipper 60"(837 lbs) seems kinda light when compared to the 1,055 lbs of my 52". The 8mph and 4 gal gas tank capacity(compared to my 10mph and 9.5 gal capacity) are other things I would have "compared the Country Clipper to the Gravely on". Now I may need to be comparing the Country Clipper "Charger" series models to my Gravely, but without any pricing on the Country Clipper website I can't really be sure. I'm simply comparing "entry level Commercial" to "entry level Commercial" for those two brands and that's why I always emphasize to users shopping to make sure you are comparing apples-to-apples across different brands. Somehow, I think the "Charger" may be a model to compare to my Gravely Pro-Turn but since I'm not looking to buy I'm not going to contact a Country Clipper dealer to get a price and make sure I am comparing similar models. Hope this helps!!

dj-- Actually there is a new line that isn't on the website yet-EdgeXLT that I am looking at. It is their top of the line residential model and has only the ZT2800 hydros, but does have a pivoting front axle and the Kawi motor. I am comparing it to the Gravely ZT52HD which is also the top end resoidential mower which has the ZT3100 hydros and also the Kawi motor. I will mow approx. 70-80 hours per year and pretty rough terrain as far as yards go.

djdicetn said:

RatRacer,

VERRRRYYY interesting(BTW, nice lookin' Chevy's:0). My one-and-only concern if I were buying(knowing I want "Commercial" quality/durability) is the FR series Kawasaki(Residential rating). Can you get an engine upgrade to the Kawa FS(Heavy Duty) series or FX(Commercial) series...my preference??? And what kind of OTD(Out-The-Door) money is the dealer talking about on this? No doubt, though a nice looking high-end Residential mower(with a fine-looking cut).

Click to expand...

When it comes to budget, you go for the most "want" items after the " must need" items has been met. Being over-informed has a tendency to make folks over buy (which I am already doing) to the point of obsession, second guessing, then obsessing some more. The FR motor is adequate, and then some, for the same task that I've asked my 17.5hp Kohler Commander to do for the last 9 years, and could probably do 9 more for its condition. But I want more........

djdicetn said:

P.S.
How many "total" anti-scalp wheels does the deck have??? From the front view looks like one on left(from rider view) and a nose roller, but none on the right(chute) side...kinda unusual. Are there any on the rear of the deck?? They also are braced with a single L-angle brace. On my Gravely there is a dual nose roller and one on each side of the front(double, not single angle iron bracing). See attached picture for what I am referring to about the anti-scalp wheels. It also has two rollers in the back on the inside of the deck. Of course there doesn't appear to be any indications of scalping in your pictures.

Click to expand...

Only 2, but they work well.

SCMCG said:

dj-- Actually there is a new line that isn't on the website yet-EdgeXLT that I am looking at. It is their top of the line residential model and has only the ZT2800 hydros, but does have a pivoting front axle and the Kawi motor. I am comparing it to the Gravely ZT52HD which is also the top end resoidential mower which has the ZT3100 hydros and also the Kawi motor. I will mow approx. 70-80 hours per year and pretty rough terrain as far as yards go.

Click to expand...

SCMCG,

Sounds like you are comparing apples-to-apples and that's what's important!!! I think for your needs you are practicing due diligence on what it will take to do the job.

RatRacer said:

When it comes to budget, you go for the most "want" items after the " must need" items has been met. Being over-informed has a tendency to make folks over buy (which I am already doing) to the point of obsession, second guessing, then obsessing some more. The FR motor is adequate, and then some, for the same task that I've asked my 17.5hp Kohler Commander to do for the last 9 years, and could probably do 9 more for its condition. But I want more........



Only 2, but they work well.

Click to expand...

RatRacer,
Only you can decide what machine "meets your needs" and by no means am I discouraging the Big Dog purchase(after all, they ARE built by Hustler who got the highest overall rating by their dealership network over ALL the other Outodoor Power Equipment manufacturers....even the infamous Scag, Grasshopper and other big names). And when it comes to over buying I'm VERY guilty of that(with 1.5 acres of mostly flat lawn a 52" Commercial ZTR is a wee bit of overkill:0) I had the money available now, am fixing to retire and wanted something that would be relatively problem free for the rest of my life. So I "intentionally" over-bought what I "needed". Besides, my 6-year-old grandson will look real good on my Gravely when his dad hands it down to him:0)

SCMCG said:

Check out the Country Clipper.

Country Clipper zero-turn mowers have zero-turn radius capability

Click to expand...

Yeah, I looked at those. The detracter was going straight and turning with one hand. I drink (gatorade)and drive whilst mowing.:confused2:

djdicetn said:

RatRacer,
Only you can decide what machine "meets your needs" and by no means am I discouraging the Big Dog purchase(after all, they ARE built by Hustler who got the highest overall rating by their dealership network over ALL the other Outodoor Power Equipment manufacturers....even the infamous Scag, Grasshopper and other big names). And when it comes to over buying I'm VERY guilty of that(with 1.5 acres of mostly flat lawn a 52" Commercial ZTR is a wee bit of overkill:0) I had the money available now, am fixing to retire and wanted something that would be relatively problem free for the rest of my life. So I "intentionally" over-bought what I "needed". Besides, my 6-year-old grandson will look real good on my Gravely when his dad hands it down to him:0)

Click to expand...

I am in no way discouraged. My 1/2 acre still don't know what hit it. But, I will gladly accept donations to outfit it with a FX. I'm also available for adoption for the hand-me downs. :laughing:

Oh, from your previous question: $5500 is the current over the phone price, but I'm south of that currently, and still prodding before I sign.

Just got off that Big Dog cutting the 2.3 acres for the second time.

No wonder they named it that! The rest need to stay on the porch!

1.5 hours and used only about 1.5 gallons of fuel. I'm getting better and more impressed with each use!

The neighbor cut his yesterday with their Toro and the cut quality of the two yards is very markedly different. Both cut within 24 hrs of each other, 1 1/2 weeks ago and today. I only passed over mine ONCE. Mine is closest, theirs is full of hay, see below.

What a piece of junk, http://www.toro.com/en-us/homeowner.../pages/model.aspx?pid=timecutter-ss5000-74631

Charles

Old Goat said:

Just got off that Big Dog cutting the 2.3 acres for the second time.

No wonder they named it that! The rest need to stay on the porch!

1.5 hours and used only about 1.5 gallons of fuel. I'm getting better and more impressed with each use!

The neighbor cut his yesterday with their Toro and the cut quality of the two yards is very markedly different. Both cut within 24 hrs of each other, 1 1/2 weeks ago and today. I only passed over mine ONCE. Mine is closest, theirs is full of hay, see below.

What a piece of junk, http://www.toro.com/en-us/homeowner.../pages/model.aspx?pid=timecutter-ss5000-74631

Charles

Click to expand...

Old Goat,
That's why I never recommend the Toro TimeCutters sold in big box stores. Stamped deckand wash ports on that 5000 model......you may as well have a lawn tractor. Now the high-end Residential Toro Titan(ZX & MX series)....those are near-Commercial quality ZTR's and I "considered" the Titan MX5480($5300 MSRP for a 2012 when I was looking) and also the Toro Commercial Z-Master 2000 series($6100 MSRP for a 2012 52") which are even nicer(with the TurboForce decks) than the Titan. When you get into the Z-Master 3000, 5000, 6000 or 7000 Commercial ZTR series those are some fine grass-cutting monsters.

Admin-
There is a time limit for editing their own thread/OP for updates?


Update-
The Big Dog has been returned to the dealer, and I have been fully refunded on 5/7/13

I liked the mower overall, as far as design and construction go, and spec-wise, it ticked all my desired boxes.
There were couple issues had concerning this purchase:

1. 1- The throttle design on this particular design of mower turned out to be something that needs to be better designed. The throttle (actually a hydro-static speed forward/reverse control, not fuel), would not return to neutral position when released, making you have to manually turn it back to slow down/stop.
2. 2- Full forward/reverse required more rotation of the handle beyond a persons natural wrist rotation range, requiring you to let go and re-grip to get to full forward/reverse, making item 1 above loads of fun if you need to do a sudden slow down/stop.
3. 3- My salesperson turned out to be a vinegar & water feminine hygiene product.
   During haggling, I switched up negotiations from being financed to a straight up cash price. I asked him to write down the final purchase price on a piece of paper, and I would have the wife get me a stack of Benjamin's. Well, we came to an agreement and I dropped it off payment on the way home from work, but he was not there, so a co-worker accepted it. So I called Friday to say I was stopping by to pick up the invoice and and all the manual stuff that they had still. He tells me that he needs an additional $322 to cover sales tax. I flipped and asked why he didn't include that in his written figure, since I was having to withdraw a large sum of cash for this buy? He says it slipped his mind, because of all the stress he was going thru during his business's ONGOING TAX AUDIT. I told him that was all I would pay, and either figure a way to make it work (I offered an out of state purchase option, Dad has same name in NJ) or come and get it. He took option B.

Now, I am awaiting the arrival of my Husqvarna M-ZT 52.

RatRacer said:

Admin-
There is a time limit for editing their own thread/OP for updates?


Update-
The Big Dog has been returned to the dealer, and I have been fully refunded on 5/7/13

I liked the mower overall, as far as design and construction go, and spec-wise, it ticked all my desired boxes.
There were couple issues had concerning this purchase:

1. 1- The throttle design on this particular design of mower turned out to be something that needs to be better designed. The throttle (actually a hydro-static speed forward/reverse control, not fuel), would not return to neutral position when released, making you have to manually turn it back to slow down/stop.
2. 2- Full forward/reverse required more rotation of the handle beyond a persons natural wrist rotation range, requiring you to let go and re-grip to get to full forward/reverse, making item 1 above loads of fun if you need to do a sudden slow down/stop.
3. 3- My salesperson turned out to be a vinegar & water feminine hygiene product.
   During haggling, I switched up negotiations from being financed to a straight up cash price. I asked him to write down the final purchase price on a piece of paper, and I would have the wife get me a stack of Benjamin's. Well, we came to an agreement and I dropped it off payment on the way home from work, but he was not there, so a co-worker accepted it. So I called Friday to say I was stopping by to pick up the invoice and and all the manual stuff that they had still. He tells me that he needs an additional $322 to cover sales tax. I flipped and asked why he didn't include that in his written figure, since I was having to withdraw a large sum of cash for this buy? He says it slipped his mind, because of all the stress he was going thru during his business's ONGOING TAX AUDIT. I told him that was all I would pay, and either figure a way to make it work (I offered an out of state purchase option, Dad has same name in NJ) or come and get it. He took option B.

Now, I am awaiting the arrival of my Husqvarna M-ZT 52.

Click to expand...

RatRacer,
Well I guess that answers my question about your avatar!!!!!!:0)
PLEASE, post an honest owner experience(and what else would we expect from you?:0) about the Husqvarna M-ZT 52!!! I have recommended that ZTR for the price to several users and I had looked at the Husqvarna 5225 last fall(but it fell short of my "Commercial quality" expectations). I did, however make an offer on a Dixon DX152 ZTR and since Husqvarna bought Dixon and the "new model" MZ-ZT 52 looks suspiciously like the Dixon(along with the similar build & features) I'm very curious as to whether my recommendations of the M-ZT 52 are spot on. I do recall one forum user that has a M-ZT 52 and had only good things to say about it. Sooooo....post some picks and give some owner feedback!!!!

P.S.
I also remain somewhat "skeptical" of the Powerbar, Joystick and Steering Wheel type ZTR's:0)

DJ-
It was one of your recommendations that had put it on my radar, and spurred me into looking at it deeper, when this deal started heading south. None of my local dealers had any in stock, but after an expanded search, I found some inventory 60 miles from me. I took a long lunch the other day and went and took a test ride at a dealer. It is a awesome mower, and for how it's equipped, it will give their PZT line a bit of a hit. My repair guy says not to fret on the Endurance motor, and he'll keep it right as rain, or he'll swap it out for me.

And it's ORANGE!

RatRacer said:

DJ-
It was one of your recommendations that had put it on my radar, and spurred me into looking at it deeper, when this deal started heading south. None of my local dealers had any in stock, but after an expanded search, I found some inventory 60 miles from me. I took a long lunch the other day and went and took a test ride at a dealer. It is a awesome mower, and for how it's equipped, it will give their PZT line a bit of a hit. My repair guy says not to fret on the Endurance motor, and he'll keep it right as rain, or he'll swap it out for me.

And it's ORANGE!

Click to expand...

RatRacer,
Well, I wanted to buy a red Porsche to match my Gravely, but the Financial Advisor(aka, the wife) said no way:0)
I did, however, in 1999 ordered a 18' Sprint Fish & Ski boat to be built by the manufacturer to match my green 1995 Chevy Silverado Z71....but my wife is the one that MADE ME buy the boat:0) She loves to fish more than I do(what a blessing:0)

P.S.
When I was looking the P-ZT's were more than I wanted to spend, but I definitely would have considered the M-ZT 52 if it had been available then!!!

djdicetn said:

P.S.
I also remain somewhat "skeptical" of the Powerbar, Joystick and Steering Wheel type ZTR's:0)

Click to expand...

The CC Z-Force S is hands down the best implementation of this type of steering for a ZTR, for somebody upgrading from a tractor to a ZTR. It is totally intuitive by having the forward & reverse in a pedal format, vs. the handgrip style of the Powerbar. The other snafu is, that to fully utilize ZTR on this platform, you need to slow your forward speed down to a crawl. Higher speeds will give the same turning radius as if using a tractor, unlike using sticks can. (personally observed by use)

RatRacer said:

Admin-
There is a time limit for editing their own thread/OP for updates?


Update-
The Big Dog has been returned to the dealer, and I have been fully refunded on 5/7/13

I liked the mower overall, as far as design and construction go, and spec-wise, it ticked all my desired boxes.
There were couple issues had concerning this purchase:

1. 1- The throttle design on this particular design of mower turned out to be something that needs to be better designed. The throttle (actually a hydro-static speed forward/reverse control, not fuel), would not return to neutral position when released, making you have to manually turn it back to slow down/stop.
2. 2- Full forward/reverse required more rotation of the handle beyond a persons natural wrist rotation range, requiring you to let go and re-grip to get to full forward/reverse, making item 1 above loads of fun if you need to do a sudden slow down/stop.
3. 3- My salesperson turned out to be a vinegar & water feminine hygiene product.
   During haggling, I switched up negotiations from being financed to a straight up cash price. I asked him to write down the final purchase price on a piece of paper, and I would have the wife get me a stack of Benjamin's. Well, we came to an agreement and I dropped it off payment on the way home from work, but he was not there, so a co-worker accepted it. So I called Friday to say I was stopping by to pick up the invoice and and all the manual stuff that they had still. He tells me that he needs an additional $322 to cover sales tax. I flipped and asked why he didn't include that in his written figure, since I was having to withdraw a large sum of cash for this buy? He says it slipped his mind, because of all the stress he was going thru during his business's ONGOING TAX AUDIT. I told him that was all I would pay, and either figure a way to make it work (I offered an out of state purchase option, Dad has same name in NJ) or come and get it. He took option B.

Now, I am awaiting the arrival of my Husqvarna M-ZT 52.

Click to expand...

Yes, there is a time limit that you can edit your posts.

I, too, was wondering what happened to your avatar! I'm sure you will be happy with the Husqvarna...it looks nice!

RatRacer said:

Since there is no BD sub-forum (yet), here it shall reside.

In my new ZTR quest , and it be where the steering component is more of a wife friendly design, I came across 2 designs that have met my criteria, in combination with ZT-3XXX trans and KW engine, the BD Powerbar and CC Z-force S.

Luckily, the closest dealer to me is a Hustler and BD dealer, he has graciously let me trial the Powerbar this weekend to see if he could close the deal.
Since this a unique mower, I figured I'd break out the camera and give you the nickel tour.

The unit in question:

Since it arrived somewhat dirty, so I didn't have to worry about getting it that way......

It steers and throttles like a motor-cycle....... hmmmm, will ape hangers work?

Control panel. Hour meter is mounted below, down the side of the tank.

She's a wide ride, with junk in the trunk.

It has great forward speed. It allowed me to do my yard in 32 minutes, with first time jitters use and not actually being the owner yet. I'm happy with the results. The only snafu right now is using reverse. I feel like a special needs person, because it's like total bass ackwards to normal use. Control is really responsive, like quick steering ratio, and is really one handed use friendly.
To the playground:
East side, wife likes circles

North side, 10ｰ slope

West side, with the dreaded swale from hell, and all its 30ｰ glory.

And finally, the South side. This swale is more user friendly, with up and down mowing without any scalping.

This has been a ztr noob report. Let me know if you would like any further pics of particular areas.

Steve

Click to expand...

Steve,

You had me with "ape hangers"! One of our main concerns with purchasing a zero turn mower is how it handles on a steep hill. I know you posted pictures, but for some reason, they aren't viewable for me.

We have 6 acres, 4 1/2 to mow. Most is on a slope (the old riding mower chugs along, but is not happy about it) but about an acre of it is a really steep slope. We hired someone to do the yard last season and is big club cadet handled it, but did not love it.

My husband is chomping at the bit wanting a tractor rather than a zero turn...hey, who wouldn't, but I'm the practical one. I'm also the one who maintains the yard.

So, all that said.....would you're Big Dog handle my yard?

Tracie


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