RARE SIGHTINGS NEEDED! Anyone with XT1LT42, XT1LT46 or XT2LX42 ??

[Boobala]

SORRY to interject, BUT I think ( M/M ) is seeking everything pertaining to your opinions of the EFI system,.. in particular, along with the rest of us, there's not a lot of opinions posted about this newer system.

 

[cruzenmike]

I too am interested in this as well. I am not sure of anywhere short of the Deere X590 that you see an EFI in a riding mower type unit, especially considering that the EFI Cubs start under $2K. This year, Cut released the XT2 SLX50 which is their LX50 with the v-twin EFI and the other XT2 upgraded bits (armrests, wheel bearing instead of bushings). If the SLX has a better tranny like a K58 or K66, it would make a heck of a rider!

 

[motoman]

At the $1800 price these Cub Cadets "have" to contain the lower end big box components ...(like deck and hardware?), BUT the throttle body FI remains a draw (to me). If I had the room in my garage I would get one just to try the FI. Boobala (our archivist and reporter extaordinaire), sent me an article which mentioned a sidelight. With an ECU (engine command unit) it is easy to control RPM so no need for mechanical governor AND cold starts are just part of the same system without a manual cable choke or bimetallic auto choke which may corrode. (I have both without problems BTW). Remember , this is OLD car technology ....Honey I shrunk the carb.

NO, I have no affiliation with Cub Cadet. My observation is that this device is for market penetration. Home Depot may not even know how to sell these new machinnes.

 

[HS=LD]

Pick up a XT1 42 EFI on March 10th. I'll post back when I get an idea of what it's like.

 

[motoman]

HS, We wait for your report. Meanwhile I poked around a little more on the state of "single point" or "throttle body" FI. I did this trying to judge this entry at the expected price point with "new" (for "basic" riders) tech. In another thread I asked for input on the "typical" carburetor fuel system "price" owners or pros experience to compare it with the likely "cost" Cub has passed on for the FI at the $1800 advertised showroom price. No response so far on what a carb, fuel pump, governor costs.

Recap: In India they make an upgraded version of the older Royal Enfield motorcycle (? 350-500 cc , 15 - 30.5 cu in). The owner's manual (2005)is online and it is very good with pictures, reminding me of some J Deere manuals I have seen. This bike has MIL (malfunction indicator light) which is a supplement to the more sophisticated digital fault codes accessible with a laptop. So the remote Indian owner can look at "blink codes" to begin troubleshooting a problem, and keep his family vehicle running.

Newer: A current site sells Throttle body systems for classic American cars for $695. The systems are "mapped" for the application (FI works properly over RPM and owner demand conditions).

Another company, in Michigan, sells several versions of a throttle body FI system adaptable to a wide range of small engines. This site is quite nerdy and intimidating because it uses electronic jargon to help the owner with his adaptation. But it is IMO the best comparison source of what Walbro has done outfitting the new Cub Cadets. This company mentions Briggs Stratton without a specific example.

The hardware offered seems a little flimsy , but functional . It includes harnessing, sensors, throttle body (good looking casting)and free software download. The software includes an optional MIL (blink code) output of the diagnostic fault codes .The harness includes a connector to hook to laptop if desired. All for $495 with support. This system is shown installed on a 350cc (15 cu in) scooter ,but versions are available for larger engines. Specific fuel mapping is left to the buyer.

So what? Well to peel off the pricing layer Cub has likely put on the FI one needs something. At $1800 and using the $495 above I will leave it to you knowledgeable readers to judge . To me the effort Walbro and International Harvester (Cub owner?) have spent to "develop" FI to the 2 Cub engines was significant and at $1800 they have agreed to swallow, or recoup later, the non- recurring cost. To me it is likely the FI components already existed in China, hopefully in Taiwan. So the joint development was to ruggedize the installation and map the fuel requirements. What about the engines...?

Will the single be like the Harbor Freight single (haters and lovers), selling for ?, or will it disintegrate? What about the V engine with 42" deck? Lot's of exposure here for Cub Cadet. Gutsy IMO.

I plan to call/visit my local dealers, maybe take some pics . Whadda ya think?

Edit: They got grass in China? Emerging middle class. Maybe the Cubs are total rebadges of existing Chinese riders?

 

[HS=LD]

The EFI Cubs look exactly like the non EFI Cubs made in the USA, so they're not rebadged Chinese units. The engines are Chinese, which could be good or bad. China makes pure junk but they also male Apple computers and phones and Panasonic Lumix Cameras among a lot of other superior quality goods. It just depends on who's making it to what specification. The Walbro EFI unit is probably cheaper to make than any carburetor and implement. As long as the sensors are there, it's plug and play. There's a lot more auto control and accuracy inherent in the system. You can't buy a carbureted car engine anymore and there's a good reason for that. EFI has proven to be more reliable, cheaper, with more HP and more fuel economy. It's a proven technology over the last 50+ years.

And if the EFI motor craps out it's easily replaceable with any other CC motor as the rest of the rider is basic CC.

I would have jumped all over the 42" with the big twin EFI. However, Home Depot screwed up our carpet install and the manager offered me a free bagger if I bought the lawn mower as compensation... For $349 off I'll try the XT1!

 

[motoman]

agree, keep us posted

 

[motoman]

While still on a roll....the major cost pieces of the Cub in my wild estimate:

The Cub transaxle as Tuff Torque k 46 seems around $600 new retail , so perhaps $450

The Cub engine using the Harbor Freight Predators as back-to-back book marks: the single @ $400 retail next to the twin @ $650 retail=Cub engine @ $500.

The Cub fuel injection system...no input from readers on deletion cost of carburetion. Carbs "seem" to run from $20 for Chinese Tecumseh clones to $225 for US OEM propane compatible so I picked a $50 bogey for the carb, a $15 bogey for the vacuum gas pump and $50 for the governor. This elimination from the earlier fuel injection components estimate makes the Cub FI cost around $350 more .

Chunks total $1300 still needing chassis, wheels , cowl, etc etc and assembly. Think they can do it for $1800? And this without any development cost amortized. Your understanding and constructive comments are welcomed , as usual.:smile:

 

[HS=LD]

I think your figurin' is pretty close. The Xt1 with the 18hp Kohler carb model is $1499 and the Xt1 with the 547cc EFI is $1749, so EFI adds $250. That's the only difference it seems between the units, (the motors.)

 

[motoman]

Yep, The FI 's got to cost more IMO. We need some usage time and reports. Still need to go look/touch here.

Somewhere I saw owner expectation that the ethanol/gas attack or varnish would end with elimination of the carb bowl. But that is unlikely as the gas tank will still remain as a source of problems. Also the injector (singular) living in the throttle body may have even smaller holes in the spray head than the carb passages . (Also the little strainer screen) When I spoke to the Portland tech he said the only problem so far with the Cadet he has seen was a plugged fuel pump. A pump for throttle body spray has milder pressure than the multi port type on commercial mowers, but still is very busy. And the failure of fuel to reach the injector may not set a fault code, so critics are correct that these FI systems still have difficult problems to diagnose, but any more difficult than carb models?